I agree with most of what you say about Merle and Daryl being different. However, I disagree with your point about Merle leaving Daryl. Merle may have taken the truck leaving Daryl and the others stranded, but there is no evidence that Merle knew it was their truck. Merle was handcuffed to the roof when they decided to take the truck, so he never saw it. For all he knew, it was someone else's abandoned truck. As for not going back to the camp to get Daryl, that might have been his intention, but he may have passed out from blood loss before he could. Merle told Andrea that he had "pretty near bled out" when TG found him. Even if he went looking for Daryl, he wouldn't have found them because the group left the day after the attack because it wasn't safe.
I apologize for the confusion - I was rushing to finish that post before going to my parents to cook Thanksgiving dinner and didn't have time to proof or edit. I was not referring to Merle leaving Rick and the others in Atlanta when he took the truck - obviously, he did not know they had come to rescue him. I was referring to Merle not going back to the camp - which would not have taken him long with the truck. They found the stove where Merle had cauterized his stump - crudely, but that would work as a temporary measure so he wouldn't have bled out that day. Woodbury is nowhere near Atlanta so Merle would have been some distance away from the camp when the governor found him. There's no indication that Merle ever went back to the quarry camp at all. He never mentions that when talking to Andrea.
My impression was that Merle was just using Daryl to play on Andrea's sympathy - particularly after she mentioned that Amy had died. He's trying to get information from her about the group because she was still with the group the last time he saw her. Andrea walks right into that and goes so far as to give Merle a map with the location of the farm marked on it. If Merle is able to track as well as Daryl, it's possible he could find them using that - he certainly seemed to think he could. Regardless, it did not seem to me that Merle's primary interest was finding his brother, but rather that he wanted to find Rick and was simply using Daryl as an excuse to get Andrea to talk and to convince the governor to let him go look.
I ‘m not going to disagree that Darryl and Merle are very different guys. Certainly Merle appears to be totally oblivious to any needs but his own. I would like to be proven wrong here, but am doubting it likely at this point in the story.
No way do I agree with the altruistic view you’re presenting of Darryl. For instance the way I recall the deer business was that he was angry because “his” dinner was gone; not that the group would go hungry. But then it has been a long time since I watched season 1.
Actually, what Daryl said was that he had been tracking that deer for miles and he had planned to drag it back to camp to "cook
us up some venison". He asked Shane if cutting the eaten part away might make it safe for them to eat, but Shane said he wouldn't risk it. Then Daryl said he had also caught about a dozen squirrels so that would have to do. He was hunting food for the entire group - not himself.
I wouldn't say Daryl was entirely altruistic then - more that he saw a need that his particular skills would be good for and took care of it. Doing so made him feel useful and needed - and I think that's important to Daryl even if he doesn't realize it. For someone like Daryl that would simply be doing his part - he wouldn't see it as anything special because food was something they all needed.
But this part I am pretty sure of. In the early days of the group Darryl had no plans of staying with these people. Had said so.. Had stated he was better off on his own. No way did he find strength in numbers,. You really believe HE thought his chances of survival were improved by aligning himself with Dale, Andrea, Amy, Carol, Sophia…? He’d have been better off pairing up with Betty White.
Daryl made a comment about being better off on his own in anger - it's obvious that he wasn't serious because he stayed. Being part of a group was safer than being alone - and that group did include people who could handle weapons and deal with walkers. Shane and Rick could also hunt. Andrea and Amy both knew how to fish. Everyone contributed something to the safety and well being of the group as a whole - even if it was just making sure the clothes were clean or the food was cooked properly.
Initially, Daryl did not feel much of a connection to any of these people. Other than getting angry with them about what happened with Merle, he got along with them in general from what we're shown, but he did hold himself apart from the others in the beginning. His reasons for staying at that point were not emotional - they were more practical at that point. After the discovery that Sophia had been turned into a walker, Daryl withdrew even further - going so far as to move his things away from the main camp - and he began keeping to himself. It wasn't until near the end of season 2 that Daryl chose to change that. Rick began turning to Daryl more as it became clear that Shane was becoming unstable and couldn't be trusted. Dale's death was part of that as well - mourning him brought them all closer together. Over the 8 months they traveled together during the winter, they have become a surrogate family to each other and Daryl feels like part of the group now whereas before I think he felt like he was on the outside looking in.
Epiphany is maybe the wrong word. Maybe it was a shift in his awareness, a slow recognition there were things he wanted more than physical safety. So I guess our argument isn’t about who he ultimately became, but rather when and how he got to that place. I prefer to think he evolved into that character after having been someone very different. (I’ve seen it happen in the real world.)
I don't entirely disagree. I do think that Daryl was always a good person in general and that he cared about others. However, I also think that the way his father and Merle treated him growing up made him feel that it was necessary to hide that aspect of himself. Daryl's journey has been about learning to open up emotionally and trust others.
My point is that Daryl was never someone who needed redemption. Being closed off emotionally and hiding behind an aggressive shield didn't make him a horrible person. He still did good things and showed that he cared about others - even though he tried to hide it. He never demonstrated the prejudice that Merle did. He didn't use drugs like Merle did - and he has Merle's stash because that's where he got the antibiotic for T-Dog. He is occasionally aggressive - particularly when he's worried or scared and trying to hide it - but he doesn't attack someone on the basis of the color of their skin or gender the way Merle did. He'll defend himself and others if he's provoked - and he'll kill if it's necessary to accomplish that, but he wouldn't do things like that just for the heck of it.
Merle would. Merle is not a good person and he doesn't care about anyone but himself. The more we learn about Merle, the more we see that he is very manipulative and controlling. Daryl seems to know exactly what kind of person his brother is - and his comments about not being able to play with other kids when Merle was around is very telling because it shows that he tried very hard to control Daryl. Merle's character is one that would have to be redeemed because he's such a horrible person. However, redemption requires remorse and regret - it requires atonement of some sort. We don't see anything like that with Merle and I never expected to. He has no regrets and feels no remorse because he's always put himself first. Merle is not going to seek forgiveness or feel any remorse because he doesn't consider any of his actions wrong.
Guess another poster answered this stating that Meryl almost bled out, BUT just as Meryl didn't return to the camp to pick up Darryl, neither did he return to shoot anybody.
Merle wasn't in any shape to fight anyone at the time - and he didn't have a gun because Rick took it when he handcuffed him to the roof. I don't think Merle was thinking about anything other than getting as far away as he could to save himself.
Also, it was not Merle who revealed that he had a brother - Daryl wasn't mentioned by anyone until they got back to camp and Dale started asking what they would tell him about Merle. Not when Rick handcuffed him to the roof - not when T-Dog dropped the key - not during his monologue after they left him there. At no point does Merle mention Daryl or express any concern for him or even threaten that Daryl will avenge him. Merle simply did not think about Daryl at all from what we're shown.
Meesha, must be in a stupor from all this Thanksgiving cooking. My last post doesn't make a lot of sense. ( Realized this while preparing the stuffing.) I still agree with my own premise (D. is a "hero in process" as opposed to your "always a hero but disguised"), but your post defends your theory better. I will think better tomorrow.
Totally understand about the cooking - and I'll add the eating too. I have no willpower at Thanksgiving or Christmas.
To be clear, I wouldn't say Daryl was always a hero. He has his flaws and he is very emotionally stunted so I would agree that he's definitely a work in progress as he overcomes that and opens up more to the group as he gets more comfortable with them. I do think Daryl has always been a good person, but doing the right thing is just being a decent person. As I said above, I simply think Daryl never did anything that would require redemption the way Merle did.
In the timeline of the show, a year ago, Daryl wouldn't have taken the time to ask Beth to be there for Carl because his mother died - or made the effort to talk to Carl himself and share that story about his own mother dying. He wouldn't have stepped up to hold things together while Rick grieved. It wasn't that he didn't care, but he wouldn't have been comfortable opening himself up like that to anyone in the group back then - Carol was the first and I think that was largely due to the fact that she was the first who really showed that she respected him and appreciated his efforts to find Sophia. Daryl's come a long way in the past year and he's a lot more open now than he was back then. But keeping himself closed off emotionally is not something that requires redemption - that was simply a defense mechanism and the only person that hurt was Daryl himself. I wouldn't put that on the same level as Merle trying to kill T-Dog simply because he was black.
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