[Judari]

IMHO, Merle simply does not have a moral character. I wouldn't call him 'evil'. He is doing what it takes to survive and is being led by someone who I would consider evil, the Guv. He is a sociopath and likely was one pre ZA. Sure, he's 'protecting' the people of Woodbury but his motives are not benevolent. He only seeks to control the residents to the point where he actively seeks out threats to his power ie: the Ntl. Guardsmen. His town was fortified. He didn't need their equipment, he just wanted them gone and had his men murder them. Merle knows that no one leaves Woodbury alive and has acted accordingly in order to survive. He certainly wanted out (if only to find Daryl) but had no mechanism by which to escape until Maggie and Glenn came along. As despicable as the beating/assault on those two was, it's the only way Merle saw to find his brother. And, it worked! Merle is a bully. Bullies are cowards and rarely do the right thing. In this case, I think his cowardice will be his ultimate downfall. I don't think he'll last 3 more episodes unless the group has a change of heart and I find that unlikely.

+1 Great assessment. However I always saw Merle's end as him sacrificing himself for his brother. Daryl said "no one could kill Merle but Merle", which so far we see to be true, so whenever Merle does die I always imagined it to be on his own terms.

[Not_Undead]

No one can kill Merle, but the writers. Glenn had every reason to, but...

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

Daryl's cuter and less abrasive so he gets a pass, I guess.

that's precisely why
i'm sure if i was a girl, i'd probably be on daryl's junk 24/7 and vindicate merle. but since i'm a dude, the fact that he's cuter and less abrasive means absolutely nothing

[theglassintheguvseye]

No. Daryl's not a murderer. It has nothing to do with racial slurs.

I've seen many posts on this forum hating Merle, not for murdering people (I feel that he was compelled to murder by intimidation) but for being a racist douchebag.

daryl is a murderer. 90% of the people in this show are murderers

When did Daryl murder anyone? He may have but I don't remember it.

Merle is fun to watch. He's interesting. That's all I care about, really. Characters that are all good are boring. Grey is interesting. Dark grey even more so!
I love redemption stories. Remember all the Lori hate at the end of last season? And the WD writers turned that around so that her death seemed tragic. I'd love to see the writer's overcome the Merle hatred before he dies. That's what I'm looking forward too.

Me, too!!! I would probably punch Merle in the face if he were in my home but like what he brings to the show.

+1 Great assessment. However I always saw Merle's end as him sacrificing himself for his brother. Daryl said "no one could kill Merle but Merle", which so far we see to be true, so whenever Merle does die I always imagined it to be on his own terms.

Thanks for the +1. I agree, deep down, I think that Merle has always been looking for/looking out for Daryl. Perhaps to make amends for past abuses or perhaps b/c he's his 'baby brother'. Time will tell Merle's fate, Daryl's too. They're both racists technically, but Merle is certainly the more hatable of the two.

[Judari]

that's precisely why
i'm sure if i was a girl, i'd probably be on daryl's junk 24/7 and vindicate merle. but since i'm a dude, the fact that he's cuter and less abrasive means absolutely nothing

Not to derail the topic too much but I think people give Daryl a pass because although he may say prejudice things like "you have balls for a chinaman" to Glenn, he didn't mean it in a derogatory way nor does he treat Glenn poorly based on his ethnicity That doesn't excuse his ignorance or the fact it was a derogatory thing to say but its always easier to forgive someone who doesn't know better (or is of well intent) then it is to excuse someone being outwardly malicious. Merle on the other hand was being very malicious towards T-Dog in his racial slurs. Although I find it odd that Merle being portrayed as a such racist in the beginning, didn't mention nor blame T-Dog for his arm, has shown nothing but tolerance to the people of Woodbury and hasn't said anything racially charged to Michonne yet though he's had more than enough opportunity. I think the writers wanted to change that about Merle because everyone was so hyped up about a big T-Dog/Merle race confrontation they've seem to go out of their way to avoid any big issues with Merle regarding race. This is why it seems to me Merle either isn't really a racist but says racist things to be an asshole to push people's buttons (its also speculated his initial confrontation came from him being high out of his mind) or is actually racist yet the writers are playing it way down this season. Either way he hasn't been very consistent on that front.

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

Not to derail the topic too much but I think people give Daryl a pass because although he may say prejudice things like "you have balls for a chinaman" to Glenn, he didn't mean it in a derogatory way nor does he treat Glenn poorly based on his ethnicity That doesn't excuse his ignorance or the fact it was a derogatory thing to say but its always easier to forgive someone who doesn't know better (or is of well intent) then it is to excuse someone being outwardly malicious. Merle on the other hand was being very malicious towards T-Dog in his racial slurs. Although I find it odd that Merle being portrayed as a such racist in the beginning, didn't mention nor blame T-Dog for his arm, has shown nothing but tolerance to the people of Woodbury and hasn't said anything racially charged to Michonne yet though he's had more than enough opportunity. I think the writers wanted to change that about Merle because everyone was so hyped up about a big T-Dog/Merle race confrontation they've seem to go out of their way to avoid any big issues with Merle regarding race. This is why it seems to me Merle either isn't really a racist but says racist things to be an asshole to push people's buttons (its also speculated his initial confrontation came from him being high out of his mind) or is actually racist yet the writers are playing it way down this season. Either way he hasn't been very consistent on that front.

true. you gotta remember that in season 1, he was completely coked out too. people on those kind of drugs may become more malicious
i don't see merle as an evil racist at all. he's just like daryl. says racist sh*t but not really a true racist. a true racist would have never worked with martinez, tim, shupert, and gargulio without problems. he just enjoys making racist remarks to get a rise out of people. i remember him calling martinez "brownie" a couple of times. a truly evil racist would be like hitler or pol pot. or those redneck KKK members that went around hanging blacks

[thelastpaul]

I think you're misunderstanding what people are saying when they call him an evil racist. People are saying he is evil. Even without being racist, he is evil. Or a bad human being, however you wanna word it. The racist part is just a cherry on top, they're not DIRECTLY related to each other. Although some people would say that they are.

As I said, to me the racism is just the cherry on top of him being a shitty person.

[Grénádé]

There is a difference between racism for comedic purposes with friends and family than between people who don't like each other.

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

There is a difference between racism for comedic purposes with friends and family than between people who don't like each other.

an assumption of inferiority of a person because of the color of their skin should hold the same weight whether its jokingly with friends or against someone you don't like.

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

I think you're misunderstanding what people are saying when they call him an evil racist. People are saying he is evil. Even without being racist, he is evil. Or a bad human being, however you wanna word it. The racist part is just a cherry on top, they're not DIRECTLY related to each other. Although some people would say that they are.

As I said, to me the racism is just the cherry on top of him being a shitty person.

no, we're not misunderstanding. i asked people why they consider merle is evil and one person specifically said "he is racist and an asshole" talking crap/spewing racial slurs does not make you evil it makes you a bigot. shoving a knife through someone's throat for the sole reason of hating the color of their skin makes you evil.
no one ever argued or doubted that merle is a shitty person. he is. but is he an evil psychopath like the governor? not even on his worst day

[Zombeemom]

Did anyone ever say what they thought it would take for the group to let Merle back in? Obviously they are either going to have to let him in or he is going to die, that's just the way the script is going to have to work out in order for Daryl to rejoin the group. I am with the previous poster that said that the Dixon's are going to ride in on their white horses and save the prison. I'm assuming that Daryl is going to get as much information about the Gov as Merle can give him and realize how much trouble the prison is in. He won't be able to let that happen, so he and Merle will come to the rescue. Will that be enough for the group to let him back? Will he die saving Daryl from the Gov? I'm thinking that he will die in order to save Daryl. He is too expendable and that would give that sequence of events closure. I was kind of disappointed that Merle and TDog never got to see each other again. That would've been interesting.

[BigEd]

no one ever argued or doubted that merle is a shitty person. he is. but is he an evil psychopath like the governor? not even on his worst day

Merle killed one of his own men while hunting Michonne so the Governor would not find out Michonne got away. That pretty much sums up psychopath.

[Singlyme]

IMHO: The character of Merle is over-the-top offensive. The man can't open his mouth without issuing a racial slur or sexual inuendo. If I were forced to tolerate him, I'd be looking for the same "power off" button Rick initiated. Daryl no doubt heard all that crap growing up. He either doesn't feel the same way or is not compelled to relentlessly express it.

Merle obeyed the governor because he's basically a coward. It's the same reason he killed Cargulio in cold blood. He was afraid to go after Michonne. He cut off his hand to survive, not because he was courageous.

I can't understand trying to find that "good" core to Merle. There's only room for Daryl in his heart, who seems as much a possession as a brother. The character he plays has no redeeming qualities I've seen. Like the governor, I think he was designed and written to portray one of those people we WANT to see killed off. Personally, I can't wait for someone to shut him up permanently.

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

Merle killed one of his own men while hunting Michonne so the Governor would not find out Michonne got away. That pretty much sums up psychopath.

not really. keeping the heads of the victims in your bedroom as trophies and watching them before you go to sleep so you can relive every kill you have ever had sums up psychopath. killing a guy that would have spilled the beans to TG and either have you reprimanded or send you and another poor group of guys to get slaughtered by a woman the writers gave batman/spiderman like tree scaling superpowers to sums up "killing to survive"

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

IMHO: The character of Merle is over-the-top offensive. The man can't open his mouth without issuing a racial slur or sexual inuendo. If I were forced to tolerate him, I'd be looking for the same "power off" button Rick initiated. Daryl no doubt heard all that crap growing up. He either doesn't feel the same way or is not compelled to relentlessly express it.

Merle obeyed the governor because he's basically a coward. It's the same reason he killed Cargulio in cold blood. He was afraid to go after Michonne. He cut off his hand to survive, not because he was courageous.

I can't understand trying to find that "good" core to Merle. There's only room for Daryl in his heart, who seems as much a possession as a brother. The character he plays has no redeeming qualities I've seen. Like the governor, I think he was designed and written to portray one of those people we WANT to see killed off. Personally, I can't wait for someone to shut him up permanently.

you've been here for this debate from the beginning. try to pay attention. nobody is trying to find a "Good" core to merle or trying to redeem him as a character. he's a despicable lowdown asshole that the writers obviously want everybody to hate.
our problem was that people are saying he is pure evil psychopath like the governor. this not only oversimplifies the character, it is 100% not true. on-screen, merle has never killed anybody that didn't threaten his survival. everybody in the ZA has to murder to survive just like rick killed Shane and tomas who also threatened his survival. doesn't make them an evil psychopath. However, TG is a textbook example of that.
cowardice may have had a little to do with merle's decision not to go after michonne, but realistically speaking, she should have became a zombie. the zombie guts as camouflage worked in season 1 but rick and glenn were wearing big overcoats. The skin absorbs things that come in contact with it. michonne should have contracted the virus having the guts on her for so long because most of her body was exposed. not to mention, she had a big gaping gunshot wound in her leg that no doubt, the guts fell in to when it splashed all over her body. merle saw this. it's not unreasonable to assume she was dead and not send you and a kid who froze twice when shit went down into the red zone with 1000 walkers to search for days for a woman who most likely became a walker.

[Singlyme]

Pay attention, my ass. I have my opinion just as you have yours. I simply don't find your premise convincing enough to change mine.

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

Pay attention, my ass. I have my opinion just as you have yours. I simply don't find your premise convincing enough to change mine.

lol not my opinion. it's fact. merle is not an evil psychopath. period.
he's a racist asshole that would probably kill anybody to survive, yes.
but he doesn't kill people to satisfy some deep down urge like TG does.

[theglassintheguvseye]

In order for Merle to be allowed back in, Rick has to regain sanity and the group needs to have a heart to heart weighing the risks he will present vs. the strengths he (and Daryl) could add. If everyone were rational right now, they'd be thinking about the upcoming battle, not hurt feelings and revenge. Yes, Glen has every right to be pissed at Merle and want him dead but they could keep him separated from the rest fairly easily and just use him when needed. If acts of valor redeem him, then they can decide whether to keep him or not. I guarantee you that if Merle were willing to be locked up, he'd show his true colors one way or another. I can't see him being a part of day to day life at the prison after what he's done to Glen and Michonne (if she even sticks around). But he'd probably come in handy when the Guv attacks.

[Grénádé]

lol not my opinion. it's fact. merle is not an evil psychopath. period.
he's a racist asshole that would probably kill anybody to survive, yes.
but he doesn't kill people to satisfy some deep down urge like TG does.

Do you remember the scene in the woods with Merle and Michonne and the unfortunate redshirts of Woodbury?

Merle sure looked like an evil psychopath to me when he blasted that one dude in the face.

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

In order for Merle to be allowed back in, Rick has to regain sanity and the group needs to have a heart to heart weighing the risks he will present vs. the strengths he (and Daryl) could add. If everyone were rational right now, they'd be thinking about the upcoming battle, not hurt feelings and revenge. Yes, Glen has every right to be pissed at Merle and want him dead but they could keep him separated from the rest fairly easily and just use him when needed. If acts of valor redeem him, then they can decide whether to keep him or not. I guarantee you that if Merle were willing to be locked up, he'd show his true colors one way or another. I can't see him being a part of day to day life at the prison after what he's done to Glen and Michonne (if she even sticks around). But he'd probably come in handy when the Guv attacks.

^this.
the right call was obviously to let Merle in FOR THE MOMENT. the gov has a sizeable army coming to take woodbury. Merle was an intimate part of the planning for that attack. He has valuable inside information and insight on how TG thinks and any dirty tricks he has up his sleeve since he was his 2nd in command for nearly a year. and if nothing else, he is an absolute monster and could probably take down a good 5 or 6 people by himself 1 handed. TG also wants merle dead perhaps more than anybody else at the prison. the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Merle want's to survive and fighting off TG with rick's group gives him a better chance than when TG starts sending out hunting parties for him. I have no doubt merle would have behaved had they let him in for the moment. at least until the conflict is over. than decide what to do with him

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

Do you remember the scene in the woods with Merle and Michonne and the unfortunate redshirts of Woodbury?

Merle sure looked like an evil psychopath to me when he blasted that one dude in the face.

already responded to this further up.

not really. keeping the heads of the victims in your bedroom as trophies and watching them before you go to sleep so you can relive every kill you have ever had sums up psychopath. killing a guy that would have spilled the beans to TG and either have you reprimanded or send you and another poor group of guys to get slaughtered by a woman the writers gave batman/spiderman like tree scaling superpowers to sums up "killing to survive"

[Grénádé]

Didn't Merle show a hint of remorse or regret during, I think it was S3E3 but not 100% sure, when The Governor and Co. shot up the army dudes?

[DJ_HYDRAulics]

Didn't Merle show a hint of remorse or regret during, I think it was S3E3 but not 100% sure, when The Governor and Co. shot up the army dudes?

me personally, i don't see any of the governors henchmen as evil. think about their choices.
1. follow the govenors orders
2. die.

sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to survive. especially in the ZA

[theglassintheguvseye]

I think he did, Grenade. He may BE ex military and still consider the men they killed as a part of his brotherhood or whatever.

[Valleyaggie]

Didn't Merle show a hint of remorse or regret during, I think it was S3E3 but not 100% sure, when The Governor and Co. shot up the army dudes?

No. Not a speck of regret for that. The only time he kind of showed regret was when he was chained on the roof, talking to himself. He told himself a story about hitting his officer in the military, but then he changed his mind and said it was worth the time in the brig. He did say that he had been a bad, bad man but then got mad again and cursed God, saying that he wouldn't ask Him for anything.

Other than that, Merle has reveled in his depravity.