The Walking Dead 141 Review

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#26
Mr. NomNom

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Good issue. I would've shot Negan in the face before he finished his speech but whatever.


Yea, but he gave a few reasons why he didn't. Problem is Rick is in the civil world.....the world just took a few centuries back into basically medieval times where there is no law and everyone will do whatever it takes to stay alive.
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#27
Guest_CraigTNelsonMandela_*

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oh how i've missed negan's colorful fucking language



#28
farswell7

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TEAM OLIVIA THROUGH AND THROUGH.

 

Also, Gregory was the cockroach that never died and I'm kind of going to miss him. 


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#29
Koibito

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I thought someone would have bitched by now how Rick and Dwight are in good terms considering the death of Abraham.

 

Eeeeeh, as said, he only did what he was ordered too. Sure, it doesnt make it right, but it wasn't personal. 

 

And in the end, who was the person that stopped the war and allowed everything to restart peacefully?

 

Dwight.

 

His good deeds outweigh his bad's in this situation, I reckon.

 

That, and the closest people to Abe have either died (Holly) or moved on (Eugene/Rosita).


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#30
That_Guy_From_NY

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I absolutely LOVED every panel of this issue. Easily my favorite issue in a LONG time.I can't remember any issue that made me fell this level of excitment since Glen's death and Carl getting shot.

 

I was not at all surprised that Negan stayed in his cell, I thought it was very much in his character to do just that. But Negan's dialouge was absolutely perfect. His taunting Rick as he's going up the stairs hitting Rick right where it would hurt him the most. I got a real Batman Joker vibe from that scene. Just a perfectly executed scene.

 

Something about the line "You fucking monster!" made me think of Lori and the Governor at the end of the Prison... isn't that what Lily says to the Governor before she shoots him? I know it's not really a line that should necessarily stand out but something about it felt like a call back and that it was drawing parallels between Rick and the Governor; and how Lori would feel if she could see all the things Rick's done since she died... Anyway,  when it transitioned into Rick doing exactly what Negan said he would do (threatening to exile Olivia) that moment said so much about both Rick and Negan and how similar they are and how much Negan can get inside Rick's head. Then that lead to Rick just HAVING to explain his justifications / rationalizations behind keeping Negan alive.

 

This is the aspect of Rick that's kept me interested in him. Where you're never really sure if he's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or if he's even really doing the 'right' thing AT ALL or what that really means. It's very interesting that his motivations come from so many different elemnts in the character.

 

And the punctuation of having Gregory's body swinging from a tree in a public execution... brilliant and unexpected. I loved the pay offs in this issue, it was really well done in my opinion. I'm hoping the Letter Hacks section is true and the next few issues are really as good as this one becuase this is what I want from TWD. I'm pretty excited now to see where Kirkman is taking this story.


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#31
That_Guy_From_NY

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Also, I think either Olivia left the door unlocked on purpose or Negan has a plan. Andrea saying she heard the cage lock makes the whole thing seem very suspect.


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#32
DreaM

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^ Andrea said she heard the cage lock, and Olivia is sure she locked it, so why wouldn't he immediately get out of bed and check the lock? It could be broken. I wouldn't be surprised if Negan gets out again real soon. And since Rick denied his olive branch it could be very ugly. Although I didn't buy a word that Negan said about trust. He wants to get under Rick's skin, and he seems much too proud to ever become part of team Rick. He is smart though, and he could fake it for long enough to make his move.

 

Also, even in our civilized world many countries still consider high treason an executable offence - so Gregory had to die. Maggie and Jesus might have reacted differently if he had tried to kill Earl or the babysitter. I'm not sure if Rick will see it that way, be he can still feel civilized if he supports Maggie.


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#33
DHeav60

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Rick and Maggie could really benefit from rewording the whole "We do not kill" mantra to "we do not murder".
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#34
JesusMonroe

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I loved, loved, loved, loved this issue. 10/10 for me. This is easily one of my top 10 favorite issues of the series

 

Actually, maybe that's an overexaggeration. But this is definitely my favorite issue in a loooooong time. I'll admit it was a little bit of a slow start with the Dwight stuff but the rest...oh man

 

"You know the real reason I'm here. I'm here because after everything you did...everything you lived through...I'm the only one you can use to convince yourself you're a good person. After everything I did, you fucking let me live. ME! Only the greatest person on Earth would do that. Rick Grimes! The greatest man who ever lived!"

 

^This is hands-down one of my favorite quotes in the entire series. It's close to "We are the Walking Dead." You can tell Negan's been rehearsing it for a long time. And hell, I don't even mind that they spelled out Rick's character motivation for us because every single reader missed it. And you know what? I don't feel cheated. This fits with the Rick Grimes we know. It kind of fixes the ending to All Out War. This issue was just...great. The interaction between Negan and Rick was great because you can tell Rick's going to be constantly wondering, "Why didn't he escape?"

 

Also, Andrea said that Rick visits Negan every time he returns. Constant reminder to himself of how "good" of a person he is? (Though, how awkward would it have been if the guy who walked downstairs first wasn't Rick and Negan was just lounging around? Hopefully Negan didn't open the door until he heard a cane on the stairs)

 

Also, that ending was a gut-punch. Rick is essentially lying to Andrea about his motivations, but there is truth to what he's saying and the immediate jump cut to Gregory being hung from a tree was so...savage. I loved it. I loved that we didn't have to wait so long for the resolution to this Hilltop arc and instead Kirkman tied the two arcs together thematically. I've missed that with this series

 

 

I also LOVE TGFNY's interpretation of Rick

 

Where you're never really sure if he's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or if he's even really doing the 'right' thing AT ALL or what that really means. It's very interesting that his motivations come from so many different elemnts in the character.

 

 

I have very little complaints. We checked in with the Saviors, Negan and Rick had a great interaction that was also hilarious, Negan has left Rick with something to question, we're left with something to question about Rick, and I think this is the beginning of the end for Maggie. My one complaint is that maybe Heath was too much of a dick? I guess it's hard to feel compassion for the people who helped murder your girlfriend, though

 

I'll leave this off with one prediction: Negan's going to put Rick in a position where Rick HAS to kill him

 

Man, I'm so happy. I just need to say it one more time. LOVED the issue


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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#35
Mr. NomNom

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Rick and Maggie could really benefit from rewording the whole "We do not kill" mantra to "we do not murder".


I'm sure in Ricks eyes it's the same thing. To him killing anyone even in self defense is murder. At least that's what i'm guessing. Either way they seem to have this plan that people can go back to being civilized.... At this rate it would take decades. You have to kill most of the dead and then find new people and hope they aren't crazy.

At first i was hoping the whisperers could be somewhat good and would be able to find a new place and then maybe down the line we find a new baddie. However Rick and Maggie seem to be going overboard with being a leader...has anyone noticed the way the talk to people anymore? Even when zeke just kinda joked about trading Rick went into freak mode.

My guess is now when Rick goes to get Carl and gets super hot headed because he's Rick Grimes...chances are he starts another problem and he'll have to break his rule. He may try to be peaceful with the whisperers and i see them wanting no deal and tell Rick and co to stay off their land like what they did with Maggie and then shit escalates....because for some reason very few people/groups want to get along and live...they would rather just take over and rule.

Now I'm probably way off. Oh well.
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#36
DHeav60

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I'm sure in Ricks eyes it's the same thing. To him killing anyone even in self defense is murder. At least that's what i'm guessing. Either way they seem to have this plan that people can go back to being civilized.... At this rate it would take decades. You have to kill most of the dead and then find new people and hope they aren't crazy.


Well "murder" is a term used in civilization, that's what I'm getting at. Animals kill each other for all different reasons - to feed, territorial disputes, or just by accident. There is no morality tied to the act of killing when animals do it.

Humans on the other hand, can kill each other with moral justification like self defense. In the case of Gregory - there was a judgement passed. He committed a crime, was found guilty and sentenced to death. This will probably be a central theme in TWD story arcs to come. Rick has succeeded in building civilization, but with civilization comes struggles with politics and law and order. Dwight stepping down as leader can create a power vacuum and the Saviors already have a poor reputation. The question of how to handle domestic disputes, and outright fights between citizens is important and Maggie's struggles with that have only just begun.
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#37
Koibito

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My one complaint is that maybe Heath was too much of a dick? I guess it's hard to feel compassion for the people who helped murder your girlfriend, though

 

AND blew off his leg. Can't forget that.

 

Him being one of the people that think the saviors are a sore thumb makes super sense.


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#38
PorkTornado75

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Why is to surprising that people dont like the Saviors? They were/are a group of murdering assholes even if they were just following Negan`s orders. The majority of them were not much different then Negan himself.


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"Yeah, let's fuck this dog."
 


#39
Mr. NomNom

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I'm not sure if people still hate them or if they are holding a grudge. Heath wasn't the only one who seems to have a problem with them. Maybe they like being the outsiders of the group they were getting al the supplies and now they are in a trade system. Plus the way Negan ran things and it went on for a few yrs i wouldn't be surprised if some people are a little mental.
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#40
ThatEpicBeast U Know

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Hilltop went Town of Salem on Gregory at the end.... 


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YouTube channel: https://www.youtube....suSrDxf3qF6z34w (Epic A)


#41
DaneBramage

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With out a doubt the best written issue in quite a while. The Negan-Rick exchange was classic and the last four pages were excellent.

 

Spoiler


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#42
Reavesfilm

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I totally loved this issue.  I haven't been "disappointed" in an issue for a while, but I also haven't been blown away by an issue either... Until this issue.  The whole Juxtaposition of Rick's speech and the hanging of Gregory was amazing.  Also, fuck Negan, I wouldn't have trusted him after all this time either haha 

 

"Trust me."

"Nah."

"Please?"

"Nah."  

 

You go, Rick.  Negan is the kind of guy who gets you to trust him just so he can betray you and rub it in your face. Never trust Negan... Never.  


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"I believe in Rick Grimes."


#43
That_Guy_From_NY

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2 things irk me about this series in general though...the awful miscommunication that happens an awful lot....like why was nobody warned about the whisperers already? Why did Maggie not send anyone to tell Rick his son took off? The second thing is it seems like people can't stay with someone they want to be with and everyone sleeps with someone else.

Yeah, This was an problem I had with this issue as well. I wondered why Maggie didn't contact her oldest and best friend (Rick) to tell him his kid ran off, warn him about exactly what's happening with the Whispers and ask him if it would be possible to send Gregory to Alexandria's jail house. I feel like that could've been an option, he's of little risk in Alexandria, and I don't think Rick would be against it knowing that Gregory would be a danger at the hilltop.


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#44
Chryz707

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I think this was a great building issue, I think Negan not taking off was a total surprise.  I would have thought he would have left into the forest to disappear, but he also isnt stupid.  He doesnt know how much Rick has built up the outside of the place,  He said their could be traps all over, but when Negan finds the whisperers I think he will find a way to exploit them and make his move to disappear. 

 

Rick really seems subdued now with the Time Skip.   It would be interesting to do a spinnoff or miniseries to see what Michonne has been doing besides fishing for the past 2 years or so!   Maybe show them going up the coast and seeing Atlantic City or NYC post ZA!  Maybe they have turned the Statue of Liberty or Ellis island as a safe Islands.  


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#45
Mr. NomNom

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Yeah, This was an problem I had with this issue as well. I wondered why Maggie didn't contact her oldest and best friend (Rick) to tell him his kid ran off, warn him about exactly what's happening with the Whispers and ask him if it would be possible to send Gregory to Alexandria's jail house. I feel like that could've been an option, he's of little risk in Alexandria, and I don't think Rick would be against it knowing that Gregory would be a danger at the hilltop.


It's actually been a huge problem throughout the series. Like...jesus should have told Rick about the saviors and the numbers they have and how dangerous they really are..or gregory. Or how about during the war when Rick decided out of nowhere he was going to kill Negan without a plan think the man didn't bring back up.

I'm about to be kinda hypocritical....do i think Gregory deserved to die? Yes. Do i think he should have been shipped off in another community? Yes. The only problem is the Kingdom would have been the only place. You can't ship him to ASZ and risk him meeting and or talking to Negan. You can't take him to the saviors because they could then again plan to get Negan out...and of course not hilltop for the fact he already had followers.

The only reason i say he deserved to die was because he was standing over Maggie as she could have potentially died and he was gloating about it. That's not counting he was already getting support from other people.
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#46
Chryz707

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It's actually been a huge problem throughout the series. Like...jesus should have told Rick about the saviors and the numbers they have and how dangerous they really are..or gregory. Or how about during the war when Rick decided out of nowhere he was going to kill Negan without a plan think the man didn't bring back up.

I'm about to be kinda hypocritical....do i think Gregory deserved to die? Yes. Do i think he should have been shipped off in another community? Yes. The only problem is the Kingdom would have been the only place. You can't ship him to ASZ and risk him meeting and or talking to Negan. You can't take him to the saviors because they could then again plan to get Negan out...and of course not hilltop for the fact he already had followers.

The only reason i say he deserved to die was because he was standing over Maggie as she could have potentially died and he was gloating about it. That's not counting he was already getting support from other people.

 

 

I agree with you that he had to die, if he was sent to the Kingdom, how do we know he wouldnt have developed a Coup over there!  He is a snake in the grass and the only place from him was death.  I think it would have been more interesting if maybe they punished him back in the time of the Salem witch trials by say Branding him on his face or further humiliating him in public,  this could have either made him a stronger villain for latter if they kept him alive or made him an assistant to other villains that could be developed down the line.  Giving him a permanent mark tells the communitys that he is not to be trusted.  I think this would be an interesting turn  in the walking dead.


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#47
Mr. NomNom

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I agree with you that he had to die, if he was sent to the Kingdom, how do we know he wouldnt have developed a Coup over there! He is a snake in the grass and the only place from him was death. I think it would have been more interesting if maybe they punished him back in the time of the Salem witch trials by say Branding him on his face or further humiliating him in public, this could have either made him a stronger villain for latter if they kept him alive or made him an assistant to other villains that could be developed down the line. Giving him a permanent mark tells the communitys that he is not to be trusted. I think this would be an interesting turn in the walking dead.


I wouldn't mind the branding but i see someone like dwight being disturbed by it after the events Negan put him through. Also i see someone who is a villian seeking out someone who is tagged because then it's a giveaway on who has been in trouble amd they know they could easily collect that person.
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#48
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Finally caught up to the current point. Marathon'd most of it and I'm enjoying it more than the previous arc.

 

As for this issue, I liked it. The heartfelt speech by Rick about killing signifying the breakdown of their stable and civilized society, then bam. I'm still not quite sure why Maggie or anyone thought killing Gregory was the best idea. Even if some people will still listen to him for some reason, they could still find a better way by explaining and reasoning with everyone; even the people who supported his plan at the time regretted it. May not've been too hard to lock him up for a long time. But I guess as Rick said, it's the easy way out.

 

I'm also questioning why Maggie isn't sending someone out to look for Carl. She sent people out before for someone who was almost certainly dead, despite the protests of others. And Carl 'knowing what he's doing' is kinda flimsy reasoning for that when he's chasing a threat unlike anything before. I suppose they have very little idea where he is unlike Ken and now they know the territorial Whisperers are out there, but he is Rick Grimes' son and I don't see Maggie just waiting to see what happens with him going after the skin-suit people.

 

Negan's bit is among his best yet, I agree with that. I think he's judged it safer to mess with Rick and wait for everything he's built to crumble, rather than try to escape now. I mean if he really did try to escape, what would his options be? He'll either be killed, captured again, or have to live on the run in a zombie-infested world by himself.


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#49
That_Guy_From_NY

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It's actually been a huge problem throughout the series. Like...jesus should have told Rick about the saviors and the numbers they have and how dangerous they really are..or gregory. Or how about during the war when Rick decided out of nowhere he was going to kill Negan without a plan think the man didn't bring back up.

I'm about to be kinda hypocritical....do i think Gregory deserved to die? Yes. Do i think he should have been shipped off in another community? Yes. The only problem is the Kingdom would have been the only place. You can't ship him to ASZ and risk him meeting and or talking to Negan. You can't take him to the saviors because they could then again plan to get Negan out...and of course not hilltop for the fact he already had followers.

The only reason i say he deserved to die was because he was standing over Maggie as she could have potentially died and he was gloating about it. That's not counting he was already getting support from other people.

Even if he became BEST friends with Negan over in Alexandria and shared a cell and braided each others beards... Gregory would be absolutely no threat whatsoever in Alexandria. There's just nothing he could do. Actually he would be more of a hinderance to Negan if Negan ever wanted to make a move because he's stupid and cowardly. Both traits that Negan despises. Worst case scenario is that Negan beats him to death with a pillow and a tube of toothpaste and leaves a mess all over the cell that Oliva would have to clean up. Other than that it's perfectly safe for them to store him there. Besides Rick wouldn't let them interact, he'd figure out a way to keep them separated, it's not like they haven't had other prisoners anyway. And Rick is just all around better than Gregory so even if he did find some angle to play Rick wouldn't fall for it. He's no threat in Alexandria with or without Negan there.

 

There's only 1 scenario I can see Rick saying no to Maggie and that's if he wants her to man up and solve her own problems... but Rick would understand her issue and be ok with taking him in.


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#50
JesusMonroe

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Volume 24 is called "Life and Death"


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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?






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