Is Negan Really A Villain?

- - - - - negan villain rick grimes

#1
alexpetrov

alexpetrov

    Infected

  • Members
  • 69
  • LocationPoland
I'm surprised why everybody consider Negan a villain.

He is an antagonist to Rick and I can easily agree with this. As well as Rick is an antagonist to Negan. But what makes him a villain?

Let's get the facts:

- Rick's groups started the violence: they attacked Negan's group and killed several Saviors
- In return Negan killed just one member of Rick's group (Glenn) and a little bit later Dwight killed Abraham, but Negan can hardly be responsible for this deed as I doubt that it was Negan's order.

- Karl killed several Negan's men.
- Instead of punishing, Negan pardoned him.

- Spencer plotted against Rick
- Negan actually helped Rick to deal with this plot by killing Spencer

- In the last issue Rick again attacked Negan, killed two of his men and tried to kill Negan himself
- We don't know what happens next, but judging by the next covers Negan is going to pardon Rick again.

You still think Negan is a villain?

Can you think of any reasons why he is a villain except that the fact that he brutally killed Glenn? Rick and his group also did such things (e.g. when they killed Hunters).

Negan is a tyrant? But there is no democracy in Alexandria either and who is Rick if not a tyrant, ok perhaps not a tyrant but an authoritarian leader?

He is nothing like the Governor who came under prison's walls shouting "Kill'em all!". He didn't do any evil to Rick's group except what was done in response of Rick's unjustified attack on his people. So what else can you think of?
  • 0
Hei, If you're russian speaking, join us in creating the Walking Dead Wiki Project - http://ru.walkingdead.wikia.com

#2
JesusMonroe

JesusMonroe

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,836
Let's get the facts

-He has all of the communities under his control (Kingdom is debatable) in an INVOLUNTARY trade agreement. He's a thief

-He killed Andy, David, and Crystal and then sent Ethan to kill Gregory just to keep Hilltop afraid

-Rick didn't start it. He was threatened on the road by the Saviors. They said to give their stuff or they'd be killed

-Not only did he beat Glenn to death, he was laughing and cracking jokes while he did it

-He burns people's faces

-He stole drugs from a group that needed it so his men could get high

-If anybody else shot his men, he would've killed them. This is understandable but the reason he spared Carl was because he likes him

-He could've handed Spencer to Rick and let him decide what to do
  • 5

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#3
DHeav60

DHeav60

    Roamer

  • Members
  • 532
  • LocationPhoenix, AZ
Your basically talking semantics - is Negan a Villain or antagonist? Is there a difference? What's your interpretation of a villain? One who uses his power and influence to control others as a method to get what one wants? Or perhaps a Villain is someone who will hurt or kill someone else on general principle? Either way - Negan fits the bill.

Just because Negan is SMARTER than the Governor, which leads him to keep more his subordinates ALIVE... does not make him any less evil. He's just evil in a more logical and conniving way.
  • 1

#4
Ricktatorship

Ricktatorship

    S-mart Employee

  • Members
  • 170
This is really intriguing because I let my cousin read my comics from 103 and he said that Negan was a hero to his community

However I let him read comic 100 and his opinion changed which was odd but I think that Glenn's deaths influence people's judgement on Negan.

I think Negan can be considered a perv and this and that but the bottom line is that he has tried to keep peace with Rick and has pardoned him.
  • 1

#5
Furrybeastman

Furrybeastman

    Infected

  • Members
  • 90
  • LocationNewfoundland
abraham was killed before glenn not after
  • 3

#6
Furrybeastman

Furrybeastman

    Infected

  • Members
  • 90
  • LocationNewfoundland




if that's not the face of a villain then i don't know what is
  • 2

#7
JesusMonroe

JesusMonroe

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,836

Your basically talking semantics - is Negan a Villain or antagonist? Is there a difference?

A protagonist is the main character and the antagonist is the person conflicting with the main character. A villain implies evil but if the protagonist is evil, then the antagonist can be good
  • 3

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#8
DHeav60

DHeav60

    Roamer

  • Members
  • 532
  • LocationPhoenix, AZ

A protagonist is the main character and the antagonist is the person conflicting with the main character. A villain implies evil but if the protagonist is evil, then the antagonist can be good


Yeah - I get it, I taught High School English, I know the difference.

I'm just saying that whether Negan is a "Villain" or not is completely subjective, although I'd be skeptical of someone who said that Negan is NOT EVIL. But are all Villains evil? Aren't some Villains driven by good intentions?

If you watch a cop movie - the hero protagonist is the cop and he's most likely good. The Antagonist is the criminal who's most likely "bad". If you watch a Mafia movie - the Protagonist is "bad" but does that automatically make the Protagonist "good"? I don't think so. What if the roles traditionally implied to be "good" are actually bad - like corrupt law enforcement officers or civil servants?
  • -1

#9
JesusMonroe

JesusMonroe

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,836

Yeah - I get it, I taught High School English, I know the difference.

I'm just saying that whether Negan is a "Villain" or not is completely subjective, although I'd be skeptical of someone who said that Negan is NOT EVIL. But are all Villains evil? Aren't some Villains driven by good intentions?

If you watch a cop movie - the hero protagonist is the cop and he's most likely good. The Antagonist is the criminal who's most likely "bad". If you watch a Mafia movie - the Protagonist is "bad" but does that automatically make the Protagonist "good"? I don't think so. What if the roles traditionally implied to be "good" are actually bad - like corrupt law enforcement officers or civil servants?

I got confused because you were asking for the difference between the two

I shouldn't have phrased mine like that. If the protagonist is bad, the antagonist CAN be good.
  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#10
DHeav60

DHeav60

    Roamer

  • Members
  • 532
  • LocationPhoenix, AZ

I got confused because you were asking for the difference between the two


Right.... I was just trying to point out to the original poster of this thread that there's USUALLY not a big difference between main antagonist of a story and "villain" - since both are highly subjective in nature.

Most people understand the "villain" of a story to be the main antagonist and vice versa. The reason why we use the phrases 'protagonist' vs. 'antagonist' is to illustrate that the main character doesn't have to be good and the main source of conflict does not necessarily have to be evil.

For the Walking Dead - I think it's pretty obvious that The Governor and Negan or both villains. They are both main antagonists of the storyline, and both supremely evil. Whether or not you want to classify Rick as "good" or "heroic" is a more complicated debate.


I shouldn't have phrased mine like that. If the protagonist is bad, the antagonist CAN be good.

What I'm getting at is that this stuff really depends on the person who's watching the movie or reading and interpreting the story. Two people may watch the same movie and differ on who they identify as the story's protagonist vs. antagonist. They also may differ on their interpretation of "evil" or "good" behavior of characters.
  • 0

#11
bkottond

bkottond

    Lurker

  • Members
  • 266
  • LocationPhoenix AZ

Let's get the facts

-He has all of the communities under his control (Kingdom is debatable) in an INVOLUNTARY trade agreement. He's a thief

-He killed Andy, David, and Crystal and then sent Ethan to kill Gregory just to keep Hilltop afraid

-Rick didn't start it. He was threatened on the road by the Saviors. They said to give their stuff or they'd be killed

-Not only did he beat Glenn to death, he was laughing and cracking jokes while he did it

-He burns people's faces

-He stole drugs from a group that needed it so his men could get high

-If anybody else shot his men, he would've killed them. This is understandable but the reason he spared Carl was because he likes him

-He could've handed Spencer to Rick and let him decide what to do


- In return Negan killed just one member of Rick's group (Glenn) and a little bit later Dwight killed Abraham, but Negan can hardly be responsible for this deed as I doubt that it was Negan's order.


Lets not for get that Abe was killed before Glenn.
  • 0

"I'M TAINTED MEAT"


#12
gypsyrose

gypsyrose

    Biter

  • Members
  • 901
  • LocationHolly's room
maybe Lucile has put a spell on Negan?
  • 0

#13
WhiteChocolate

WhiteChocolate

    Lurker

  • Members
  • 443
  • LocationDallas TX
Negan gives Rick and his people slack because they scare the hell out of him. Negan realizes these people are fighters since they killed so many of his men.

Negan walks all over the Hilltop because Gregory is such a pussy. Negan killed 3 hilltop people and got Gregory stabbed...Rick tried to kill Negan for killing a guy he didn't even like. It seems if you have balls, Negan keeps his distance.

This makes Negan more of a bully than an actual villain, because if you fight back he'll back off.
  • 0

XBOX One Gamertag: ROFbaggingU.  Blackops 3 Zombies mode: easter egg hunter.


#14
JesusMonroe

JesusMonroe

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,836
I know this kind of belongs on another thread ( http://www.roamersan...s/page__st__100 ) but I think it fits here. I might be giving Kirkman too much credit because I don't think he's that clever but what if Negan is like Gus in a way. By that, I mean he was introduced to parallel the path the main character (in this case, Rick) is going to go down on and in order for Rick to overcome Negan, he has to become him.

Edited for thread link
  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#15
Canon_108

Canon_108

    Lurker

  • Members
  • 209
Negan's the villain now...I didn't even think this was up for discussion. Alexandria, Hilltop, and Kingdom want peace and democracy. Negan wants a dictatorship, and to kill, and disfigure those that oppose him. There's a reason everyone wants him dead...
  • 0

#16
slimymeteor

slimymeteor

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,122
  • LocationOhio
Negan takes pleasure in brutally murdering innocent people. You can argue that he does what he feels he has to for survival, but when someone gets that much joy out of killing innocent people in such brutal fashion, it doesn't get much worse than that. Rick and others have killed for survival too, but they didn't get off on it like Negan seems to. I think something was seriously wrong with this guy before the outbreak even began.
  • 2

#17
Abrams

Abrams

    Infected

  • Members
  • 36

I'm surprised why everybody consider Negan a villain.

He is an antagonist to Rick and I can easily agree with this. As well as Rick is an antagonist to Negan. But what makes him a villain?

Let's get the facts:

- Rick's groups started the violence: they attacked Negan's group and killed several Saviors
- In return Negan killed just one member of Rick's group (Glenn) and a little bit later Dwight killed Abraham, but Negan can hardly be responsible for this deed as I doubt that it was Negan's order.

- Karl killed several Negan's men.
- Instead of punishing, Negan pardoned him.

- Spencer plotted against Rick
- Negan actually helped Rick to deal with this plot by killing Spencer

- In the last issue Rick again attacked Negan, killed two of his men and tried to kill Negan himself
- We don't know what happens next, but judging by the next covers Negan is going to pardon Rick again.

You still think Negan is a villain?

Can you think of any reasons why he is a villain except that the fact that he brutally killed Glenn? Rick and his group also did such things (e.g. when they killed Hunters).

Negan is a tyrant? But there is no democracy in Alexandria either and who is Rick if not a tyrant, ok perhaps not a tyrant but an authoritarian leader?

He is nothing like the Governor who came under prison's walls shouting "Kill'em all!". He didn't do any evil to Rick's group except what was done in response of Rick's unjustified attack on his people. So what else can you think of?


you read my mind! Neggan has given Rick a lot of slack I think! I can't wait to see what happens in the next issue! If Negan lets him off again he should have his own men kill him then someone else take over!
  • 0

#18
Abrams

Abrams

    Infected

  • Members
  • 36

Negan takes pleasure in brutally murdering innocent people. You can argue that he does what he feels he has to for survival, but when someone gets that much joy out of killing innocent people in such brutal fashion, it doesn't get much worse than that. Rick and others have killed for survival too, but they didn't get off on it like Negan seems to. I think something was seriously wrong with this guy before the outbreak even began.

That is a true assesment of Neggan! He does take joy in killing but given the type of world they live in he has given Rick and his group a lot of slack!
  • 0

#19
Abrams

Abrams

    Infected

  • Members
  • 36

Lets not for get that Abe was killed before Glenn.

it still angers me that they killed off Abrams! He was my favorite character!
  • 0

#20
PorkTornado75

PorkTornado75

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,858
  • LocationAlexandria Safe Zone with Spencer`s pool table.

Negan takes pleasure in brutally murdering innocent people. You can argue that he does what he feels he has to for survival, but when someone gets that much joy out of killing innocent people in such brutal fashion, it doesn't get much worse than that. Rick and others have killed for survival too, but they didn't get off on it like Negan seems to. I think something was seriously wrong with this guy before the outbreak even began.

The didn't take joy in slaughtering the Hunters ? seemed that way to me just saying......
  • 1

"Yeah, let's fuck this dog."
 


#21
JesusMonroe

JesusMonroe

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,836

The didn't take joy in slaughtering the Hunters ? seemed that way to me just saying......

They weren't smiling and laughing doing it. Rick even said to Dale's body that he was horrified with what he did. Everyone but Andrea actually expressed regret about it
  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#22
PorkTornado75

PorkTornado75

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,858
  • LocationAlexandria Safe Zone with Spencer`s pool table.

They weren't smiling and laughing doing it. Rick even said to Dale's body that he was horrified with what he did. Everyone but Andrea actually expressed regret about it

The look on the faces of these people sure seems like they are enjoying the revenge to me. Except for Gabe who is clearly shocked.

  • 0

"Yeah, let's fuck this dog."
 


#23
BeauL83

BeauL83

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,711
  • LocationAustralia
Damn... That's some nice art.
  • 0
I Believe In Rick Grimes

#24
I R Biter

I R Biter

    Biter

  • Members
  • 918
  • LocationSpace City
Negan is a classic abuser.....acting as if people should be grateful for a lack of violence, making demands for things he is not entitled to, rationalizing cruelty, showing no remorse whatsoever, creating a constant sense of fear, etc.

Believing lack of abuse=kindness is a sign of Stockholm Syndrome. People are more susceptible to that than seems to be commonly understood.

Personally, I don't see the times he's held back on vengeful killing showing any sort of genuine care for another human being, but more indicative that he doesn't care all that much about his own men......he seems to see everyone as his personal slaves, and anyone who refuses to play that role is killed, or cowed into place by violence, and examples made of others.

Yeah, he's a villian.
  • 0

#25
BrenGun

BrenGun

    Infected

  • Members
  • 127
  • LocationMaine
Negan is just like anyone would be in the post ZA.... his latent personality traits come out in a consequence free environment. In Negan's case, anti-social and psychopathic traits. Rick would do well to study up on his Andrew Carnegie's "How To Win Friends And Influence People." I don't admire Negan, but I understand where he's likely coming from. He's been VERY reasonable to a fault (which will get him killed eventually...) with Rick who is the real true psychopath in training. Rick really should have just formed an alliance/partnership with Negan after a year or so of paying him tribute. But an antisocial psychopath like Rick doesn't play well with anyone.
  • 1

13587925883_1aaaba80c2_m.jpg

"I don't know why I do the things I do. Never did. I'm a damn mystery to me." -Merle Dixon






Welcome to RoamersAndLurkers.com, the largest walking dead forum and discussion board online. If you are a fan of AMC's The Walking Dead or Robert Kirkman's The Walking Dead Comic Book, we invite you to peruse and enjoy our discussion board, and don't be afraid of joining in!