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Protecting The Young

- - - - - Planning Judith Judity

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#1
d2daybreak

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Protecting the young at the prison would be a challenge and that challenge just got greater because Judith is no longer the only baby/small child at the prison anymore. At least one toddler was carried off of the bus at the end of the S3 finale. There is potentially at least one more baby at the prison. In Walk With Me (S3E3), Rowan told Andrea that Eileen was about to give birth. That was the episode before Judith's birth, so Eileen's baby should be about the age of Judith. Also, Eileen is caucasian and the toddler and the woman holding her who I suspect is her mother are both people of color. Both the age and ethnicity have me leaning towards the toddler not being Eileen's baby. So, we have at least two, possibly three, babies at the prison now. Under these circumstances, I find it highly unlikely that all the babies will be killed.

Also, if the only reason for killing them off is that it would be difficult to protect them, then I think that is taking the easy way out. Instead, why not be creative and devise some realistic plans for protecting them? People have come up with elaborate plans for protecting the adults, like trenches. Why not do the same for the children? I, for one, think it is worth it to protect the children because children born after the ZA may hold the cure. Not only that, who will take care of Rick's group when they grow old, are hurt, or otherwise unable to help themselves. People like Rick, Daryl and Michonne could survive only to age. Then, what? So, let's devise some plans to protect the children, just like they developed the plan for cutting off limbs if someone has been bitten on them.

The biggest complaint I see posted for not keeping Judith and the other children alive is that they make noise, so why not plan for the inevitable noise. My first plan would be to find and secure any interior rooms in the prison, like the infirmary, administrative offices, or even, solitary confinement. I would then make them into a nursery and/or school. In the event that a herd or similar threat was seen approaching the prison, the plan would be for the non-fighting adults (elderly, pregnant women, etc.) to take the small children into the interior of the prison where any sounds they might make would have less of a chance of creating a problem. I also would develop several escape routes for exiting the nursery in the event that Plan A doesn't work.

We could also devise some plans for being on the road too. For instance, many cars shield sounds both ways. A mini-van with tinted windows sounds like an option here when on the road--not to mention cars allow for a get away. Yes, a crying baby is a threat, but mostly if you are trying to hide. Then, maybe hiding isn't the best option when babies are in the mix. If they have lookouts at the prison, I can't imagine not having lookouts on the road where even more dangers exist. T-Dog was the lookout in the first scene of the S3 premiere. In this scene, everyone was quiet, but they didn't stay and try to hide when the herd arrived. They left and using vehicles that can make much more noise than a crying baby--Daryl's (Merle's) bike, anyone? My point is that noise wasn't an issue because they ran. So, how is a crying baby any different?

Those are my first ideas for some plans. Others with different perspectives will have different ideas and I am interested in hearing them. If we can plan by rebuilding fences and planting crops, how would you plan to protect our young?

Finally, watching our heros devise and implement various plans when under various attacks would be interesting. So, what are your ideas for protecting the young at the prison.
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#2
stickoffury412

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Well first off nice topic (as always) I really am unsure of how the prison group will deal with so many people , it seems as if they'll clear some more of the prison and hopefully expand upon it .

Mr gimple has a writing hole to dig himself out of. It almost seems as if the prison should have started out this way. Not be close to ending this way, it's just a big headache . I really don't want to see kids die or Phillip to find a whole new army and attack again (it failed once don't do it again) those would just suck and the phill part be unrealistic . I'm not sure how the kids will end up because I have no idea how they will get them out of the prison and kill all of the designated redshirts.


As for protecting the kids maybe Carl and Beth can train some of the moms and older people how to defend themselves/shoot. Then again we have no idea how Carl's mood will be towards the newcomers....

I'm guessing shit will happen and some of the woodburians will mutiny to never be seen again, kids and all. Or they'll be swept through by a horde or (God forbid ) Phillip part 2.

I really don't want to see kids die or anything and I think they could be of value but it sucks they'll probably end up like their parents (cannon fodder) Judith is probably the only kid that might stick around. I'm very Leary of her and her possible death because I have recently gained two new family members who are now near her age :(
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#3
Luv2readt.

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Human children take a long time to rear, and the group will have to make a commitment to keeping these children fed, clothed, cared for, and taught survival skills. I hope they do make that commitment but we won't need to see every detail. The children should be outside playing in an enclosed place for part of their day. I agree that a plan to take the children away to a more secure location during times of danger would be necessary. You can't fight off a walker with a toddler squirming on your lap.
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#4
_Shrike_

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Maybe we'll see some interesting awkward interaction between Carl and some non-fucked up kid, like

Spoiler

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#5
Sweetsister

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I like your idea Day, my objection to the Judith story-line is that everything seemed spread so thin the no one really got any good plots and the introduction of Judith, to my mind, meant less story time for others and/or not enough story time for Judith...hoping this will be improved onto the case for protecting the kids. What you say is true who will care for the old survivors, unless they all opt out. If they secure the prison well an outdoor enclosure is a good idea. From hat we've seen the Zeds get docile after a while, so as long as the kids are not near the perimeter it could work. For travelling to hid the sound put them in a car behind Daryl's bike, I know those things are loud! I've no idea what their plans are for the kids, the elderly etc. I just hope TPTB make better choices than last season.
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#6
BeauL83

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Lets just face it, they're all probably going to die in the final prison assault.
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#7
DeadCave

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Tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) children were likely killed in the first few weeks of the apocalypse. In the back of our minds we know this to be "true". Day care centers, hospital children's wards, schools, etc. all were lost. Rick shooting that walker child, T-Dog finding that bloody baby carrier/seat in the backseat of one of the cars on the highway, the empty childcare center explored by Maggie and Daryl and so forth, all revealed the horrific fate that met our little ones.
We know about it but likely we can't stand to SEE it. Echoes of Sandy Hook perhaps. So we strive to find ways to avoid it.
Children of the apocalypse will eventually learn new behaviors to enable them to survive. Running away or hiding quietly (singly or in groups) when walkers appear. Even devising ways to kill walkers themselves if they're old/strong enough.
Infants will have to be cared for by experienced adults who know how to quiet a crying baby, (pacifers are great mute buttons).
Definitely create a space either deep inside the prison where the sounds won't reach the outside world and attract walkers. Fortify the perimeter and defenses in the event of a herd. Other than that not a whole heck of a lot to do. Except ensure you have a good evacuation plan for the just in case scenario.
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#8
d2daybreak

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Another good plan when foreknowledge of an impending human attack is what was employed in the S3 finale and protect the young, old, and/or medical staff in an alternate location. It was done with Carl, Beth, Hershel, and Judith in the woods. A better extension of this plan is to have a secondary safe haven, like Woodbury, for non-Governor related attacks. The armory would be a good place. The armory would be a smaller, fortified off-site location where they could protect the children. It also could be a good staging area to regroup and attended to any wounded before leaving the area.

Edited by d2daybreak, 20 May 2013 - 03:55 PM.

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#9
Sweetsister

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Hi all, I know the topic is "oldish" but I wanted to add that babies are nose breathers not mouth breathers, I diddnt know this till my cousin told me via her babies Pediatrician. It makes sense then that the poster who mentioned native American mothers covering the mouths of their babies to hide their cry's if they were in hiding. I always thought that would smother the baby but I was wrong. In my eyes it lends more credence to daybreaks (and others) theories that survival with a baby can be achieved.
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#10
Austin

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The prison group really has lots of work to do. Remember, the front gate was torn apart by the assault. They need to repair that as well as figure out how to secure the back of the prison. Remember how easily Tyreese's group got in? So I'm guessing the nursery won't be secured to start out with. Also, another problem arises. Food. This group was barely surviving in the beginning of season three (Carl and the dog food). Imagine what happens when the prison food runs out. The group will become desperate and will have to make constant runs to stores. Desperate people become angry people, and fights may break loose. Also, we really have no defined leader (Rick for all we know is still mentally unstable). To say that we will have a happy ending in the prison is highly unlikely, and this post apocalypse "utopia" may not last much longer.
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#11
d2daybreak

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The prison group really has lots of work to do. Remember, the front gate was torn apart by the assault. They need to repair that as well as figure out how to secure the back of the prison. Remember how easily Tyreese's group got in? So I'm guessing the nursery won't be secured to start out with. Also, another problem arises. Food. This group was barely surviving in the beginning of season three (Carl and the dog food). Imagine what happens when the prison food runs out. The group will become desperate and will have to make constant runs to stores. Desperate people become angry people, and fights may break loose. Also, we really have no defined leader (Rick for all we know is still mentally unstable). To say that we will have a happy ending in the prison is highly unlikely, and this post apocalypse "utopia" may not last much longer.


Yes, they need to secure the premises, but I don't agree that they would have to make constant runs to stores for food. WB was self-sustaining and fed over 70 people, many more than at the prison. TG and Milton served Andrea and Michonne a breakfast of eggs and fresh peaches in Walk With Me. In Say The Word, WB had a party where the refreshments were not rationed out. In fact, they had ice cold drinks and TG gave a speech declaring how far they had come from the days of spam and saltine crackers. WB was not hurting for food and now all the remaining WB folks are at the prison. So, the challenge would be in making a supply run over to WB and transferring all their stores/livestock (at the very least the chickens that laid those eggs) to the prison. That is for the short run. In the long run, the prison would have to begin farming.

Edited by gracie lou, 31 July 2013 - 08:13 PM.
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#12
Austin

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Didn't TG steal a lot of the supplies though? Not sure if he did for food, but it did show him taking tanks.
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#13
d2daybreak

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Didn't TG steal a lot of the supplies though? Not sure if he did for food, but it did show him taking tanks.


They only showed TG and his men making runs for weapons, which they would need to protect WB from biters and anyone wishing to take the supplies they had accumulated. But even if TG and his men did steal a lot of food supplies, you are making my point that the prison group would only have to stop over at WB for supplies. The food TG had stocked up would keep them short term while they set up similar farming (crops and livestock) that existed at WB.

Along with showing TG going on weapons runs, they showed the people of WB gardening. So, they produced some if not all their own food. The peaches were probably foraged from a nearby orchard. Since peaches are the state fruit, Georgia has an abundance of peach orchards. Georgia is also know for onions, peanuts and pecans, so they too could be easily foraged. As Georgia is an agricultural state in the south, farming supplies including seeds would be in abundance as well.

So, though along with securing the premises, they would have to put forth effort transferring resources to the prison, they shouldn't have to go on constant store runs for food. They may have to make store runs for medical supplies, clothes and other things found in stores that they would need, but not food.
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#14
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The last post was unapproved.
This is just a reminder that any promos, trailers and interviews that discuss upcoming episodes are considered Spoilers and should only be discussed in the Spoiler forum.
This forum if for discussing current episodes (once the new season starts) and for pure speculation.
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#15
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WB could feed itself but if the crops are still there is it safe to get them if not you neeed new seeds tools to garden clear land to plant then the stuff has to grow could be a while before everyone can be well fed. Ref the eggs is there any livestock left or has it all been nomed
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