[GirlsDeadMonster]

There have been very mixed reactions to Carl shooting Jody in the woods in the season finale. Many have been in favor of it citing Carl telling Rick that by not killing it lead to the deaths of people they love. Many have been against it saying Carl is reflecting the Guv's mentality of kill or die. I believe in the latter, that lack of remorse or regret for the killing will lead Carl down the wrong path. However, could this also be insight to what the Guv said in episode Arrow on the Doorpost? During the Guv and Rick's meeting, he talked about Shane and how people he loved died because he "failed to see the devil beside you." Could this also reference Carl? Could Carl become the new devil beside Rick, undermining him and contradicting him at every turn because Carl feels that Rick's view on the world will get them all killed? He basically told his father to go and kill the Guv before he kills any more of them. Can Carl grow to become the same person has Shane and how will that affect the group? It didn't work too well for Shane but I can't shake the feeling that Carl can become the person to ultimately kill his father because he feels he can lead the group better. This is pure speculation but what are your thoughts?

[stickoffury412]

I don't think Carl will be as cold as people say he already is. Carl makes very valid points. If he didn't shoot Jody then what if he blew Beth's brains out. Rick didn't make sure Andrew died and Lori died because of that. He didn't shoot the gov we lost Andrea.

We often forget everyone else had a normal childhood. Had a normal life where they had TIME to make connections with people. Normal connections normal people had. Carl never had that time. The closest he has to that is Beth and Judith and all he was doing was protecting them.

He wont kill Rick he will just end up resenting him like he did to Lori and then feel guilty when Rick dies

[Soaked_Pancakes]

I do think that Carl could become Rick's next "devil beside" him. I don't think Carl will be a full-blown villain who needs to die--at least, not at this point in the show. They'll just be animosity between Rick and Carl and Carl rashly deciding things without thinking about just himself and his friends will surely come back to bite him--probably indirectly. Carl will probably hit his own breakig point and realize that he needs to step back and be babied a wee bit more for just a little bit longer.

[dogwalker]

I think Carl is a normal kid/ teen. He has to be naive and stupid and think he's totally in the right to realise he's totally in the wrong. We all go through it (although he'll learn in a more extreme way lol). But I think his character would be unrealistic if he always made good/ sensible decisions.

Kinda off topic but the one thing I hate about the fan base in regards to Carl (and it happens on 'The Talking Dead' a lot too) is all this talk of Carl becoming a "leader"... Like... what? I think if that happened when he was any age below 20 I'd just stop reading/ watching. Mainly because I don't understand why people skip over the people who'd be far better equipped to lead (e.g TV version of Michonne, comic Andrea, even Daryl) but CARL? C'mon. I don't wanna see some archaic patriarchal power shifting from Dad to Son just 'because'.

[Malachi97]

It would be funny as hell if we see Carl lead Rick out into the woods, and try to kill him. Then Rick pulls the same move he did on Shane, and stabs Carl in the the chest.

[Malachi97]

I agree with what Carl did. I'm 27 now and when I was 15 I shot and killed a guy who broke into our house. He had his hand in his jacket pocket and pointed like he had a gun at my dad. I went into his draw where he keep his gun, and I pointed shot him two times in the chest. He didn't die immediately, they took him to the hospital he died there. My dad use to take me to the gun range since I was 13 so that's how I knew how to shoot. It really didn't affect me at first because I was just thinking of my dad. But about 2 weeks after I started having dreams about the guy killing me and I use to have panic attacks when I was in small places like the bathroom or elevator. Especially after I found out he didn't really have a gun. I still think about today, but not as much. It took me over a year to really cope with it. Today it really doesn't bother me. I say to myself that it could be worst, like I could have a serious illness or something like that. My point is that Carl did what he did to protect his dad like I did.

[stickoffury412]

I agree with what Carl did. I'm 27 now and when I was 15 I shot and killed a guy who broke into our house. He had his hand in his jacket pocket and pointed like he had a gun at my dad. I went into his draw where he keep his gun, and I pointed shot him two times in the chest. He didn't die immediately, they took him he died there. My dad use to take me to the gun range since I was 13 so that's how I knew how to shoot. It really didn't affect me at first because I was just thinking of my dad. But about 2 weeks after I started having dreams about the guy killing me and I use to have panic attacks when I was in small places like the bathroom or elevator. Especially after I found out he didn't really have a gun. I still think about today, but not as much. It took me over a year to really cope with it. Today it really doesn't bother me. I say to myself that it could be worst, like I could have a serious illness or something like that.

I'm sorry you were put in that situation. You did the right thing.

[Matt G]

I was all for what Carl did. He was right and he knows in this world you can't let people go like that. Sure all in all he was an innocent kid but if you don't kill him it could come back to bite you. He made very valid points to Rick as well. I however don't think he will knock heads with his dad. They might disagree and they might do things differently but in the end they care about eachother. I think he will question his leadership but he has been through a lot along with Rick but no one thinks about what has affected him and its made him numb and will to do whatever it takes to survive. Do things that aren't easy but knows he has to do them. The guy is a warrior and I love his character.

[Malachi97]

One question, why isn't the d in Devil capitalized? I mean after all, it is a name of a being if you believe that kind of stuff.

[Lurwalker]

I do think that Carl could be the devil besides Rick. I could certainly see him continuing to undermine Rick in the future as he has been itching to kill someone (first Morgan even though not dead, now Jody). He is only heading into his teen years and being that he is really beginning to act out and point those things out to his dad isn't going to get any better. Maybe Lori needs to start visiting Carl.

[Vato Atlantis]

I don't think Carl necessaerily has a blood lust as much as he just wants to get a handle on things in a world gone mad. He sees a problem While others are vaccilating about it, weighing their options , suffering losses, he wants to directly just man up and deal with it. Some bunch of assholes want to come and kill his family? Carl has a silent bullet for all of them.

I can remember being Carl's age. If I had a gun, all of my enemies would probably be dead. I could've been exceptionally madder than most , but looking back, I think I was pretty normal for a boy. All that aside, Carl seems fairly normal under the given circumstances.

[Blasko_Z]

One question, why isn't the d in Devil capitalized? I mean after all, it is a name of a being if you believe that kind of stuff.

Many people who post here don't even capitalize the names of the characters and actors who play them, so the devil thing shouldn't really shock you.

[Ceepeebee]

I don't think Carl will be as cold as people say he already is. Carl makes very valid points. If he didn't shoot Jody then what if he blew Beth's brains out. Rick didn't make sure Andrew died and Lori died because of that. He didn't shoot the gov we lost Andrea.

We often forget everyone else had a normal childhood. Had a normal life where they had TIME to make connections with people. Normal connections normal people had. Carl never had that time. The closest he has to that is Beth and Judith and all he was doing was protecting them.

He wont kill Rick he will just end up resenting him like he did to Lori and then feel guilty when Rick dies

Agreed. Carl is a product of his environment at a very impressionable age. Nothing more or less. He's not killing people for fun, he's weighing up the alternatives and making a rational decision in an irrational world.

He isn't burdened with the ethics and morality of decades of living in a civilised community...he just doesn't quick have that. If you think Carl is bad, just imagine how Judith would be at his age.

If anyone hasn't, I implore you to read the Jonathon Mayberry books about the Imura brothers....Judith's potential arc very much reminds me of "the lost girl".

[stickoffury412]

Agreed. Carl is a product of his environment at a very impressionable age. Nothing more or less. He's not killing people for fun, he's weighing up the alternatives and making a rational decision in an irrational world.

He isn't burdened with the ethics and morality of decades of living in a civilised community...he just doesn't quick have that. If you think Carl is bad, just imagine how Judith would be at his age.

If anyone hasn't, I implore you to read the Jonathon Mayberry books about the Imura brothers....Judith's potential arc very much reminds me of "the lost girl".

Why thank you sir. I see Andrea is not our agreeing point but I'm glad you aren't disagreeing with me on everything like most people would do.

If Judith survives to Carl's age. She will practically be a trained killer. This is ALL she will know. If we think Carl is cold give Judith 10 years

I think what puts people off about Carl making decisions and killing people is he 's a little kid still. and that puts a lot of people off

[GirlsDeadMonster]

I understand Carl's point about Rick not killing Andrew which lead to the deaths of Lori and T-Dog however, you can also say that if Rick didn't try to kill Andrew but embraced him into the group would he have done what he did. He was angry that Rick didn't open the door and somehow he got away, if Rick didn't do that, could Lori and T-dog still be alive? By killing people you make enemies. By letting people live you can make a friend and ally, isn't that more important? I know we would never really know what to do unless we are in that situation but again this is just speculation. I've always liked Rick's mentality about this new world and was sad in this season when he lost his way, but now I think he found it again only to have his son go the other way.

[Serenity@sea]

Many people who post here don't even capitalize the names of the characters and actors who play them, so the devil thing shouldn't really shock you.

It's a strange problem we have with titles. For some reason, it will not capitalize when you use certain punctuation like quotation marks.

[theglassintheguvseye]

It's a strange problem we have with titles. For some reason, it will not capitalize when you use certain punctuation like quotation marks.

I've always wondered why the forum capitalizes things that I didn't in my thread titles. This explains a lot. As to the OP, Carl is currently mini Shane (who he really spent more time bonding with as a male role model). I agree w/ those who say Rick needs to take some time to PARENT that child. I like Rick but he's a lousy father in that respect. And if you look at Lori's S1 comments at the school, he always put 'serve and protect' before family matters, at least that's how I took it. She seemed frustrated that he didn't communicate well. I never liked her so for a long time I've assumed she was being a bitch. Now, I think there's a bit more to it.

[Rick's Hat]

In the beginning of the show, Rick always put other people first, before his family and Lori didn't have any parenting skills as far as I could tell, she didn't ever keep an eye on Carl.

I love Carl's character, and I am looking forward to what ever else they have him do. He is a mini Dirty Harry.

After a kid has to shoot his dead mom in the head, really anything else he has to do will be nothing to him. I can see him becoming obsessively protective of Judith and if anything does happen to her (which seems pretty likely to me at some point) then Carl will be a force to be reckoned with on a scale we can't imagine.

He would never however, ever try to kill Rick, I'll eat my hat if that ever happens.

[Matt G]

You know as a viewer its rough when you say Carl has a point about killing that kid. Hes technically in the right because you cannot trust anyone. In that environment if your humanity gets in the way of survival you won't last long. That's my view. Now would I have shot him? Yes sir. Because I would see them as the enemy and Carl had no idea that these people aren't really terrible people just the people closest to the governor were. I just don't see it as white and black. There's a lot of grey in this new world.

[Malachi97]

So no one cares about a real person killing someone. All you people care about is some fictional character played by a boy who never killed anyone for real killing someone on a tv show.

[Blasko_Z]

So no one cares about a real person killing someone. All you people care about is some fictional character played by a boy who never killed anyone for real killing someone on a tv show.

Who here said anything close to what you're accusing us of saying? I am quite sure that plenty of people on this forum (in fact, I'd say most members) have a problem with murder.

[swampy79]

I'd like to point out that we know what Carl's mindset is after the fact during his little "pep" talk/justification to Rick over the death of that kid, but I'd like to make some hypothesis about other things going on in his mind at that split second.

-The only interaction Carl has had with the Governor or his people is being on the recieving end of an ambush where lives were lost.

-He has seen members of his group both new (Michonne) and old (Glenn, Maggie) return from their vacations in the Governors territory bruised, battered, and mentally screwed.

-He has no idea that the unit that has just attacked his prison with overwhelming firepower and seemingly military tactic/training is actually a rag-tag mob of regular survivors, most of whom probably haven't even engaged in a firefight with a walker recently, being led by a couple of actual merc/military exeperience hardened types.

-That kid couldn't have possibly dragged out his surrender any longer, nor performed it any worse than he did. What I mean by this is after they told him to put down the shotgun, he was taking his sweet ass time, he didn't make any effort to point the muzzle further away from Carl, in fact I yelled at Carl to shoot him simply because from the angle they were filming at I was nearly positive that the kid was slowly swinging the muzzle inline with Carl's chest as he "set it down"

This is a heck of alot to be bouncing around in someones head while they're trying to make a split second decision and not die. Bottom line for me would be this:

-Its the Apocolypse, my new born sister's life is in my hands, this guy just tried to kill "us", he hasn't dropped the shotgun and raised his hands, muzzle's starting to swing my way, pull trigger

[GirlsDeadMonster]

I maybe thinking too deep but it all boils down to the breakdown of society and do social constructs still exist in the ZA. Carl is young but he's also at the age when we start learning empathy, how to preceive the feelings of others. Without it, we would all be psychopaths. It's not so much Carl's actions that I have a problem with, he made a choice, but his lack of empathy for the boy. Carl didn't question who he was, how did he get there. I don't think I could do that. Like Morgan said the good people will die while the weak inherit the Earth. I think I would rather die a good person.

[Bitergram]

If you just attacked us, with the intent on killing us, and you come across me in the woods, and you're outnumbered AND I'm pointing my gun at you asking you to drop the weapon. You better drop that weapon. Carl was right.

[shrike]

I think because of Lori's farewell speech to him Carl won't turn bad in the end, but I can see him butting heads with Rick some more.

Something else I'm wondering is if they'll show more of that scene next season of him killing Jody, maybe from a different angle. At 0.13 it cuts away to Carl's gun and for that second you can't see what Jody is doing; maybe we'll see a bit more