The Walking Dead Season 3 Ep 14 - Prey - Review

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The Walking Dead Season 3 Ep 14 Prey Rate and Review (214 )

What did you think of this week's show?

  1. Excellent (100 [46.73%])

    46.73%

  2. Good - Some Critiques (88 [41.12%])

    41.12%

  3. Fair - Not What I Expected (19 [8.88%])

    8.88%

  4. Poor (7 [3.27%])

    3.27%

#326
Serenity@sea

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Rick has struggled and laughed with each one of the members in his group. The Guv has over seventy members in his group I would not expect the same connection. Rick stopped letting people into his group because it was to hard to watch them die. The Guv let people in his gates but not into his heart because it was to hard to watch them die. Another reason we know the Guv has known Milton for a long time is because the guv did let Milton into his heart. The Guv did once form strong bonds, it is the only thing that explains the Guvs repeated inabilty to kill Milton. Milton is of little use to the Guv now that Penny is "ditto-dead".



I completely disagree. Has the Guv let Milton into his heart or has Milton's experiments been useful to him? It seems that the Guv uses people until they no longer serve his purpose. I'm sure that Andrea thought that she was becoming close to the Guv and we are currently witnessing how well that worked out for her.
The only thing that the Guv has shown any humanity for was Penny. Which is ironic, when you think about it. Once she was gone, all bets were off.

ETA: Because the Gov was so desperate to try to bring Penny "back" was another reason to keep Milton around.
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#327
Dr Cank

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I completely disagree. Has the Guv let Milton into his heart or has Milton's experiments been useful to him? It seems that the Guv uses people until they no longer serve his purpose. I'm sure that Andrea thought that she was becoming close to the Guv and we are currently witnessing how well that worked out for her.
The only thing that the Guv has shown any humanity for was Penny. Which is ironic, when you think abou it. Once she was gone, all bets were off.

ETA: Because the Gov was so desperate to try to bring Penny "back" is another reason to keep Milton around.


I just posed this question another thread but do you think that Milton may have started his whole experiments as a way to help the Guv cope with Penny's loss? Remember didn't seem like the Guv was hiding the existance of Walker Penny from Milton.
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#328
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I think it was more due to him trying to help humanity as a whole. Of course he was trying to help the Gov and his daughter too but I don't think it was just soley for him.
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#329
Dr Cank

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I am not saying that he was doing it solely for the Guv, I agree with the whole help humanity or the feed his need for knowledge angles. I am also not saying he didn't/doesn't truly believe there is still a spark of humanity in walkers. But let me put it another way:

Do you think Milton was working on these experiments prior to Penny's death?
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#330
backwoodsroamer

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The Governor was never a normal man driven to evil by the events of the apocalypse. I don't want to get into a debate on the nature of good and evil, so I'll just state what I know to be true. A person like the Governor is either born with a proclivity towards such behavior or develops it very early in life. I have no idea if it's nature or nurture. I do know it is part of the person's basic make up.

Most people like this never have a chance to show their true nature in a noticeable way. They are usually held in check by societal norms and the rule of law. Many just simply don't have the intelligence to act on their urges.The vast majority of these people will drone away till death without doing any major harm. There are many more of these persons among us than we are comfortable thinking about.

Occasionally though they get a chance to show their true colors. Societal collapse such as the Russian Revolution or the upheaval in post WWI Germany brought them out in droves. I imagine a Zombie Apocalypse would do the same.

In short a man like Rick, while he may be forced to do some very harsh, cruel things, will never be a Governor. Phillip, well he's just waiting for the time and place to become the Governor.
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#331
Steph

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The Governor was never normal man driven to evil by the events of the apocalypse. I don't want to get into a debate on the nature of good and evil, so I'll just state what I know to be true. A person like the Governor is either born with a proclivity towards such behavior or develops it very early in life. I have no idea if it's nature or nurture. I do know it is part of the person's basic make up.

Most people like this never have a chance to show their true nature in a noticeable way. They are usually held in check by societal norms and the rule of law. Many just simply don't have the intelligence to act on their urges.The vast majority of these people will drone away till death without doing any major harm. There are many more of these persons among us than we are comfortable thinking about.

Occasionally though they get a chance to show their true colors. Societal collapse such as the Russian Revolution or the upheaval in post WWI Germany brought them out in droves. I imagine a Zombie Apocalypse would do the same.

In short a man like Rick, while he may be forced to do some very harsh, cruel things, will never be a Governor. Phillip, well he's just waiting for the time and place to become the Governor.


Very well put and I fully agree.
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#332
Dr Cank

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Well put (as usual).

In many ways I now have to agree with you, because the Guv crossed a line with this weeks episode (or the writers jumped a shark). But last week I would have argued with your assessment of phillip.

Was there a particular point in which you felt left the Guvs actions went beyond the pale? Were there a certain action(s) in which you could then place him in the marginal portions of society? Be it the heads or the National Gaurd. At what point did he deviate beyond what a plausible reaction from a "rational" human mind placed in an irrational world.
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#333
Chinghis

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OK, not to derail, but when I re-watched the episode last night, I finally remembered the graffitti on the wall in the factory that I thought might be an inside joke for the crew, an Easter Egg of sorts. It's right when Andrea enters what looks like the office area, and on the wall it says "Sake up". I just have this image of the crew sitting around at a sushi bar in Atlanta or something, drinking sake. Sake up!

Another thing is that in the "Making of" video that Serenity@Sea posted, when they're showing how they did Andrea's last walker kill (the one that she pushes down the steps), I noticed another funny piece of graffitti on the wall at the bottom of the steps. Unfortunately, I can't make out all of it, but the first part is interesting. It says: "This is my house. Please don't be ... " Would love to know what that last word is, but repeated pausing isn't letting me see it. It's in the same scene as the "ha ha" on the wall.

Oh, and, are we sure the Governor couldn't see her when he got close to her as she's hiding behind the piece of machinery or something? Kind of looked like it. From that angle, I would have thought he could have seen the top of her head.
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#334
Matt G

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Well I think rick didn't demand anything. He didn't ask for leadership or respect. He inherited that role once he took charge since the group was at the campsite. They looked to him to lead them and that came with praise and sometimes not and he was affected by that. The members that have passed on affected him because he holds all these lives in his hands and everything he does can get them killed or not. Just like thinking about the michonne deal with the governor. Is one persons life worth all the lives of your friends at the prison? He's trying to avoid war but at the same time he knows that giving michonne over will not stop a war so he chose or more likely choose the war route. The Governor on the other hand enjoys being in power and sometimes abuses that privilege. He cares about no one and just uses people until they virtually have no use left.
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#335
Jayne23

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I actually think that Rick basically thought of himself as the leader since his job in real life was
sheriff and they are leaders during any type of ER situation / I would call a ZA a er
Gov was not ever in a leadership so he is on a real leadership high and it shows.....just like I would bet he came up with the name for himself or encouraged it.
True leaders have alot of guilt for people who have fallen while under their command The Gov they mean nothing and just like he walked out to the one citizen who had been attacked shot him without a moment.

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#336
backwoodsroamer

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Was there a particular point in which you felt left the Guvs actions went beyond the pale? Were there a certain action(s) in which you could then place him in the marginal portions of society? Be it the heads or the National Gaurd. At what point did he deviate beyond what a plausible reaction from a "rational" human mind placed in an irrational world.


I'm probably the worst one to answer this but here goes. For me it was a bit of a combination. To be honest the walker heads are a non issue to me. They wouldn't bother me as much as the glass eyed deer and squirrel a lot of people have on their wall.

I have a friend. He is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet. He's a loving husband and father. He never curses. Every time you see him he dashes up to tell you some really bad, corny joke. At one point he has even tried tried to give me the shirt, coat actually, off his back. I only dissuaded him by pointing out that him being half my size meant he would never get that coat on me. I would and have trusted this man with my life. I would trust him to look after my wife and children.

Where is all this going you ask? Well it's going to his photo album. If you took it to show and tell it would be entitle "People I Killed On Summer Vacation." After two tours as a Marine LRRP in Vietnam and and a good while as a private security contractor in a number of South East Asian countries, he has a number photos. Why he keeps the album I don't know. He's not boastful, proud, or anything along those lines. I feel about his album the way I feel about TG's walker heads. A little odd, but whatever.

Keeping Penny wasn't that big a deal to me either. Grief, particularly loosing a child, will make one do very strange things. Remember Hershel was doing basically the same thing. Milton was also hawking the idea that the walkers retained some self awareness, which would have given TG hope. Feeding Penny human flesh was however a huge red flag.

The Guardsmen were another red flag. I can understand being wary of a group of armed individuals. Particularly when TG's own forces are somewhat, inept, shall we say. The fact they were soldiers, policemen, whatever would not have allayed my fears. Such a group can go bad as quickly as any other. However, the fact that he did not attempt to meet with them and determine if they were a "good fit" for Woodbury or not, but simply attacked and killed them, betrayed the fact that TG is in this just for himself. The Guardsmen were too big a possible asset to Woodbury to act as TG did.

Since we're on TG's forces, Merle is a red flag himself. Unless Merle kept his prejudices to himself, which I really doubt, him being TG's go to man speaks volumes.

Taking Michonne's weapons and keeping them was also a sticking point with me. I fully understand disarming her long enough to make sure she wasn't a threat. After that I would have sat down with her and said "Look it's obvious you've been through a lot. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Here's your sword back. You're welcome as long as you want to stay. Please respect our rules and we will respect your rights."

Everything after that was totally unacceptable to me. Putting a pack on Michonne's trail, kidnapping Glenn and Maggie, the treatment they received, the arena fights, everything after that point would have moved Phillip from my "keep a really close eye on him list" to my "need to kill him right now list."

Your thoughts may differ. There's more than one way of looking at everything.
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#337
shrike

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Also the idea of zombies never existed in the Walking Dead world, so while it seems wrong to us to keep a zombie daughter around hoping she can revover, it's less wrong to the Governor. (or to Hershel keeping the walkers in the barn for that matter)
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#338
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Rick commands respect because he has earned it. He is not above being called out by his people when they think he is wrong. Ultimately, they know he has their best interests at heart and he is willing to put himself on the line to save them if need be. Despite the fact he is their leader, he is one of them.

The governor, on the other hand, sits in his quarters alone. Even its placement, high above the street is indicative of how aloof he really is. He doesn’t appear to be approachable by the rank and file Woodburians. He has minions who carry out his orders and for the most part, one would have to go through them to reach the governor. The people of Woodbury are his serfs. The governor demands respect and gets it through manipulation, obfuscation, and intimidation.


I thought the Gov painted himself as sociable and approachable to the people in the beginning from the way the first girl who gave Andrea the tour spoke of him, his speech about the military men to the people, and from the gesture of giving the big festival/picnic. I didn't get the feeling until recent episodes when the Gov declared "war" that the people started to be intimidated by him and actually fear him a bit. Its all a farce of course, and like you mentioned there is definitely a lot of manipulation going on. However I think when Penny died is when he actually stopped caring and became that outwardly aloof person, not bothering to paint a pretty picture to cover it up. Him not stopping the townspeople leaving and putting a bullet into the dying man were the first real outward glimpses of his true self we saw him reveal to the people of Woodbury. However, I believe the people of Woodbury still think he is out for their best interests. Not everyone who questions the Gov gets automatically axed. He seems to be very good at dismissing people's concerns, he's done it enough with Andrea and although I don't think he's completely convinced, Tyreese as well.
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#339
Dr Cank

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I appriciate you taking the time to answer my question. I like most of your posts (as prone to tangent as the rest of us) and I was interested in your thoughts in particular. I think your flag went up a little faster than mine but we arrived at the same conclusion.

Oh, the reason I asked you was because alot of posters give me the "he's bad because he's bad" and the " well in the comic books....". by reviewing your past posts it appeared that you like myself (and many others) like to infer actions in context and try to give the writers atleast a little credit.

I'm probably the worst one to answer this but here goes. For me it was a bit of a combination. To be honest the walker heads are a non issue to me. They wouldn't bother me as much as the glass eyed deer and squirrel a lot of people have on their wall.

I have a friend. He is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet. He's a loving husband and father. He never curses. Every time you see him he dashes up to tell you some really bad, corny joke. At one point he has even tried tried to give me the shirt, coat actually, off his back. I only dissuaded him by pointing out that him being half my size meant he would never get that coat on me. I would and have trusted this man with my life. I would trust him to look after my wife and children.

Where is all this going you ask? Well it's going to his photo album. If you took it to show and tell it would be entitle "People I Killed On Summer Vacation." After two tours as a Marine LRRP in Vietnam and and a good while as a private security contractor in a number of South East Asian countries, he has a number photos. Why he keeps the album I don't know. He's not boastful, proud, or anything along those lines. I feel about his album the way I feel about TG's walker heads. A little odd, but whatever.

Keeping Penny wasn't that big a deal to me either. Grief, particularly loosing a child, will make one do very strange things. Remember Hershel was doing basically the same thing. Milton was also hawking the idea that the walkers retained some self awareness, which would have given TG hope. Feeding Penny human flesh was however a huge red flag.

The Guardsmen were another red flag. I can understand being wary of a group of armed individuals. Particularly when TG's own forces are somewhat, inept, shall we say. The fact they were soldiers, policemen, whatever would not have allayed my fears. Such a group can go bad as quickly as any other. However, the fact that he did not attempt to meet with them and determine if they were a "good fit" for Woodbury or not, but simply attacked and killed them, betrayed the fact that TG is in this just for himself. The Guardsmen were too big a possible asset to Woodbury to act as TG did.

Since we're on TG's forces, Merle is a red flag himself. Unless Merle kept his prejudices to himself, which I really doubt, him being TG's go to man speaks volumes.

Taking Michonne's weapons and keeping them was also a sticking point with me. I fully understand disarming her long enough to make sure she wasn't a threat. After that I would have sat down with her and said "Look it's obvious you've been through a lot. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Here's your sword back. You're welcome as long as you want to stay. Please respect our rules and we will respect your rights."

Everything after that was totally unacceptable to me. Putting a pack on Michonne's trail, kidnapping Glenn and Maggie, the treatment they received, the arena fights, everything after that point would have moved Phillip from my "keep a really close eye on him list" to my "need to kill him right now list."

Your thoughts may differ. There's more than one way of looking at everything.


I excused the national gaurd action, preemtive strike to secure WB soldiers safety (i provided the justification of a past experience gone wrong).

The Merle thing yes it did raise a flag, but though I don't like the CIA and there drone strikes on principle, my principles don't nessecarily keep my safe while I sleep.

Disarming thing - totally agree with you. what is woodbury in England? (or Maryland haha)

Hunting Michonne: crossed the line but if that was the worst thing... (again justified with past experience, Randell bringing back a crew to take all of WBs supplies)

Glenn and Maggie: I mostly blamed Merle, but yes no punishment was placed on Merle. (Maggie had been topless in the shower before, and though it doesn't make it right back then I figured the Guv would not have taken things any further.)

Walker Fights: Totally crossed the line. How can on one hand you say there is a spark of humanity and the other hand use walkers as entertainement and weapons?

Though I have to say I still think "Prey" painted the character in a total different light IMO. I know it was a general evolution of the Guv but the jump to "Prey" seemed rather drastic. But having said that "Prey" allowed the Guv to be seen when he did not know others were watching (or at the least would watch and survive).
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#340
Jayne23

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Don't you all think that Randall and his pals where part of WB and they were out raiding for TG
Randall was from the area and the other 2 said they were from up north. They seemed to have the same
attitude as Merle/ Martinez and Philip
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#341
TangoJ

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Don't you all think that Randall and his pals where part of WB and they were out raiding for TG
Randall was from the area and the other 2 said they were from up north. They seemed to have the same
attitude as Merle/ Martinez and Philip


No, because they said their group was "30 guys", and made a point of saying that they had no women.
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#342
Valleyaggie

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I already stated that I think TG always had the psychotic lurking in the background of his mind but that the ZA allowed him to finally throw off the restraints and let it all out.

To me, the moment of evil was definitely the National Guardsmen incident. It wasn't just that he killed them, it was that he put Wells' head in the tank. TG clearly killed Wells and saved the head as a trophy after getting all the information out of him that TG wanted. Serial killers like trophies. The moment we saw TG's head collection, I knew that's what he was. His display of Michonne and Andrea's weapons in a china cabinet was the icing. Again, he saw the sword and gun as trophies and put them on display instead of storing them in a weapons locker. I believe that the other objects in the china cabinet all belonged to other members of Woodbury. The objects may have been innocuous or not, depending on the threat level of the person.

If you watch a lot of Criminal Minds (I did for a while), they always talk about the pattern of a serial killer. The killer starts out small and slowly, carefully and methodically planning everything and timing things so as not to get caught. In some cases, the killer then has a "trigger" incident that causes him to escalate the behavior. The killer kills more often and much less carefully, continuing to get more bold and losing all semblance of control. I think that is exactly where TG is now.
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#343
Dr Cank

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Don't you all think that Randall and his pals where part of WB and they were out raiding for TG
Randall was from the area and the other 2 said they were from up north. They seemed to have the same
attitude as Merle/ Martinez and Philip


I was just using Randell as a similie for a type of group I would imagen The Guv would have run into. I figure most stationary/semi-stationary groups would have run into roaming bands. Especially in the south, I figure alot of yankees would be coming down before or during the winter.

This could partially explain the mentality of the initial hunt for Michonne. The fewer people who know where you are the better.
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#344
Jayne23

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I never really believed Randall or the 2 guys in the bar about who they was with or not with.
Also those yankees sure went wrong heading to this poor rural section of ga since it seems the only thing to
eat in some places was a can of dog food. Funny how money is not playing at all into this ZA now
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#345
SteadyEddie

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I imagine the Guv'nor as a kid, shooting cats with his pellet gun or pulling legs off of bugs.
I think saying that he was a "normal" human being before the ZA does a disservice to people like Rick. People who have been affected deeply, even to the point of mental illness, but not in a hostile way.
Even Morgan, who is clearly damaged goods, is basically a good person. He's killed, but it's not like he takes a sick pleasure in it.

I already stated that I think TG always had the psychotic lurking in the background of his mind but that the ZA allowed him to finally throw off the restraints and let it all out.


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#346
TangoJ

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I imagine the Guv'nor as a kid, shooting cats with his pellet gun or pulling legs off of bugs.
I think saying that he was a "normal" human being before the ZA does a disservice to people like Rick. People who have been affected deeply, even to the point of mental illness, but not in a hostile way.
Even Morgan, who is clearly damaged goods, is basically a good person. He's killed, but it's not like he takes a sick pleasure in it.


Oh yeah, the seed was already there. The ZA just poured Miracle Grow and water on it.
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#347
Dr Cank

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I think saying that he was a "normal" human being before the ZA does a disservice to people like Rick. People who have been affected deeply, even to the point of mental illness, but not in a hostile way.


I am not following you... could you please elaborate on this

I think saying the Guv was always mentally ill does a disservice to people like Rick. if both Rick and The Guv started out on a level playing field (mentally atleast), and have gone through similar experiences, yet Rick still holds to humanity and The Guv lost his. It shows just how strong Rick's compasion truly is.
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#348
Stan

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This point underscores a LOT of how things developed. If a ZA was treated like any other epidemic at the beginning it would gain traction very quickly, and people being unable to understand such a radical departure from accepted biology and psychology would not be able to transition the loss of a loved one so quickly.

As for the Gov and his people, this kind of descent doesn't have to take long, but if each baby step is justified (and even lionized) you can suddenly be in a position where you've travelled deep into the territory of unfathomable atrocities, which are committed and accepted by ordinary men and women as a gradually developed societal norm.

I think Milton and the Gov know the Walkers are incurable, but couldn't accept it in their heads (at least while Penny was one). It pushed Milton to run experiments and the Gov probably blurred his own adversity to murder when he put down strangers who were dangerous Walkers. Think about it, Stranger-Walker being curable is essentially a hostile stranger in his mind. If you can kill one you can kill the other. But he rationally KNEW they couldn't be cured, because he would make sure his own people didn't turn, even when Penny was around. Following this rather assumptive thought would be the heads in the fish tanks, an 'Alas Poor Yorick' time the Gov used to try and figure out the world these Walkers are in, and how life works.

Or he's just crazy in the skull. Either way.


Also the idea of zombies never existed in the Walking Dead world, so while it seems wrong to us to keep a zombie daughter around hoping she can revover, it's less wrong to the Governor. (or to Hershel keeping the walkers in the barn for that matter)


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#349
Dr Cank

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Oh yeah, the seed was already there. The ZA just poured Miracle Grow and water on it.


Yeah, but i contend the seed is already in each of us. and the ZA is like pouring Miracle Grow and water on it. The real question is which of us is strong enough to stay on the "good" path like Rick. (I think the Guv we see in "Prey" was a bit much, and now it is too easy to seperate ourselves from possibably following the Guv path.) But the Randell and hitchhiker conversations we have all had in the past make us truly have to question what type of actions we would allow (or could justify to) ourselves in the ZA.

But a torture room, I mean really..... I've lost any ability to compare my actions with the Guv. (please note I am not indicating that I found all of his previous actions acceptable).
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#350
TangoJ

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Yeah, but i contend the seed is already in each of us. and the ZA is like pouring Miracle Grow and water on it. The real question is which of us is strong enough to stay on the "good" path like Rick. (I think the Guv we see in "Prey" was a bit much, and now it is too easy to seperate ourselves from possibably following the Guv path.) But the Randell and hitchhiker conversations we have all had in the past make us truly have to question what type of actions we would allow (or could justify to) ourselves in the ZA.

But a torture room, I mean really..... I've lost any ability to compare my actions with the Guv. (please note I am not indicating that I found all of his previous actions acceptable).


I get your point, and it's a good one. We all as human beings have the potential for violence and depravity, and circumstances like a ZA certainly change the entire game and the direction of a person's moral compass. That said, I do believe that in some people, the tendency toward violence and sadism is more prominently hardwired into their nature than most. I think the Guv was one of those people. But I agree that his arc has taken him into super-villainy and outside the realm of even a serial killer.
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