[BenRai2k]

Finally, tension without an unnecessary fight scene. The dialogue was so well done between all characters. And thank the Lord, they finally did not cut people off mid-conversation so they could get to the action faster. They let people talk. Anyone who says it was boring is just wrong. This is how you make us care about characters. This is how you set up your story. And it only took them 13 episodes to do so.

Oh, may I also say that this episode did not drag on? I've seen a few people claim that but I disagree. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time, and it has been a long time since TWD has managed to immerse me into the story like this.

I highly doubt Mazzara was very involved in the making this episode, which excites me for season 4. Look how much better episodes are when he doesn't have his grubby fingers all over them. This was the best all season, no doubt about it.

Same here, first time watching it I was feeling a bit "bummed" out, because I am just anticipating all the last few episodes and excited to see what happens at the end. 2nd time realised it is a very nice episode and really has a calm before the storm feel. I liked when Rick told them they are going to war. Would have been nice to see Carol/Herschel have a brief worried exchange about wanting to leave(room if removed a pointless sex scene) otherwise great eppy.

[Vulture Lives]

Because he's a coward. He's feels threatened by everything and anyone who questions his authority. Team Prison only has a few members, most of which can't shoot for shit, but look how far they've come. They haven't been living in a cushy town, they've been on the road. They're fierce. He's not. He's been sitting at home drinking whiskey and giving out orders. I bet he can't even run a quarter of a mile without having to stop to take a break. I bet he bruises easily. I bet he has anemia. I bet he never got any badges at Boy Scouts but maybe got, like, two because the scout leader pitied him. The Governor wants to kill them all because he may have numbers, but Woodbury is weak, HE is weak, and he knows this, and a man like Rick with that drive, determination, and power could wipe him out in an instant.

I think that you're filling in blanks for the writers. The Governor wants to attack the prison because the writers have designated him the villain of the series, and there isn't much more to it than that. There's little to no in-story reason for it. And, if the Governor is so weak, then why is he so much more successful than Rick? The Governor has managed to accomplish a hell of a lot more than Rick while facing the same odds.

[Vulture Lives]

Why should they tell Andrea? She chose Woodbury's side so far and for all they know she's still sleeping with the Governor. Why should they tell her about personal things? Bad enough she blabbed about Lori Shane and Judith.

Because they were trying to convince Andrea that the Governor is actually a bad man, but they conveniently left out a fairly crucial piece of information.

And what would the danger be? That Andrea would blab to the Governor about something he already knows that he did?

[Judari]

Since they didn't and it wasn't shown it looks like Andrea didn't make any progress in getting the Group to accept her any more than they did the first visit. Maybe because she didn't kill the Gov like she was supposed to?

No Hershel had offered Andrea a ride back with them and said that she was apart of their family. He extended the offer but I agree with Andrea's decision to stay for the time being, she is of better use to them in Woodbury if she can turn Tyreese around on the Gov and try to foil his plans from the inside. I don't think anyone was really depending on Andrea to kill him anyway lol.

Did it make you nervous when he drank the whiskey? I covered my eyes as if they were killing walkers!

A bit but I had sworn the Gov had taken a drink before Rick did so I wasn't that worried (I could have imagined that though since everyone else seemed to be worried about that haha). I was more worried for a surprise death of Glenn and Maggie.

Kirkman is softening you up so you will care when Martinez meets a gruesome death.

Realistically its a good chance he will die, although maybe not, Mazzara and Kirkman seem to change their minds a lot on this show.

I coudn't enjoy it the first time. Again, hands were over my eyes. I kept thinking about someone sneaking past them into the prison or shooting them from the woods.. Ah!!

Yeah I was thinking the whole time that there would have to be more to the scene than just a random hookup and someone is going to die but then it just turned out to be a random hookup.

Judith and Herschel. Plus they paid a heavy heavy price for that place. But, just as important and with longer lasting implications is the idea that if they start running, they may never stop. Rick is already fighting down the fears that make him want to turn Michonne over to the Governor.

They could go back to their hometown where Morgan is for one. But with effort I think any place can be fortified well enough, no where is going to be 100% without failure, the prison isn't. Honestly I think they are more attached to the idea of a home and somewhere safe than really considering how safe it is in comparison to the present risks so you are onto something there. I think Rick knows that the Gov would probably kill Michonne then come back for them, he even mentioned it. The Michonne offer I believe was to mess with Rick's head and it did work, but I would be surprised if he actually went through with it.

It just occurred to me that Andrea's story arc might show her sobbing with regrets over all she had been blind to. If the writers allow her regret to be compensation for the stupidity that led to so many deaths then I will be really really angry. I love so much about this show but she will have to sacrifice something herself. Maybe she should lose the hand or an eye or something. She cannot come out of this without paying a price that isn't measured in just tears.

Who's death is Andrea responsible for? The thing that started it all was Merle kidnapping Maggie and Glenn. Andrea had nothing to do with that. Even if Andrea had of went off with Michonne that doesn't mean that Maggie and Glenn still wouldn't have been kidnapped and the big shoot out would have probably still happened. The funny thing about it is contrary to any influence or power Andrea thought she may have had in the situation or with the Gov, it really doesn't change the outcome of anything regardless of what side she may have been on. Like Merle, the Gov knows her usefulness and could take her or leave her at this point. I think this past episode was telling for her because she realized just how little she matters in influencing the situation. If anything its Merle and Michonne (by killing Penny) that aggravated the situation between the two groups, Andrea was in the dark the whole time that was happening so I'm not sure how you figure she needs to pay a price.

[Things&Stuff]

Welcome T&S. Love your name.
Good analysis!

Thank you! I really like this place. It's great to talk to someone about this show. I like this show better than any I can remember.

[Recurring Zombie]

I think that you're filling in blanks for the writers. The Governor wants to attack the prison because the writers have designated him the villain of the series, and there isn't much more to it than that. There's little to no in-story reason for it.

You must have missed that entire situation with Rick and co. leading an armed assault on Woodbury to rescue the kidnapped Glenn and Maggie, coupled with Michonne taking his eye and finishing off his zombie daughter. They then followed up that attack with a secondary assault a short time later. Would you expect the leader of any group of people, much less this sociopath, to take that laying down?

It's already established that the governor is not only pschotic, but that he will happily exterminate anything he sees as a threat to his power. Hence gunning down the unsuspecting National Guardsmen. Why would he not see a group that has lead two heavily armed assaults on his village as a threat?

[Things&Stuff]

Very nice dissection of the episode.

My pros were mainly:

- Glenn and Maggie patching it up.
- Milton and Andrea finally seeing Phillip's true ways.
- Daryl and Martinez/Hershel and Milton.
- The Gov's backstory about his life coming through.

My cons are:

- Rick considering giving up Michonne. I thought by now he'd know that Phillip will kill them all anyway.
- Merle. Not sure if this is just me misreading him, but he seemed a bit off (aside from the whole "I'm going to leave with some of your ammo" act).


Overall, I enjoyed the episode, but as many others have said, it's more of a build up for things to come. Can't believe there's only two episodes left!

Thanks! and I'm glad to see I wasn't alone in thinking Merle was a bit off. I don't think he's a spy but it's like the heart has gone out of him. Like he was a bit sad and defeated, not just defeated.

And I agree with Rick's consideration about give up Michonne. He said he was afraid. That's a first for him I think. Is he going to give in to his fear?

[Double Tap]

Rick was only making the Governor think that he would give up Michonne. He was basically lying to him. He lied to the group to get them ready for the inevitable. What really should have happened is Rick should have killed him on first sight. Period, done, hasta la vista, adios, konichiwa, D.E.D dead.

[Things&Stuff]

May have already been posted but not sure, did anyone else pick up on the distinctive noise at the end during Rick and Hershel's conversation? It sounds three times, each time getting louder before the episode ends. I thought it was a bird at first but after watching that scene several times it im beginning to think otherwise

It sounded like cicadas but not. If cicadas just held one note they would sound like that. I live in Texas so my bugs might be different than Georgia's. Their sound guys have won awards in the past.

[Zombeemom]

I agree, Merle is stuck. He is used to being the enforcer, the henchman, but now he has nothing. His brother put him in his place, Rick knocked his ass out, The Gov wants him dead and even Glenn isn't afraid to stand up to him. He has to make amends with this group, but his only way is through brute force against the Gov, but he can't do that cuz then he's going against his only group which would throw him out on his own. Looks like its time for Merle to grow as a person a little before he gets a bullet to the head.

[Double Tap]

Gotta give Merle credit this last episode though. He was the only voice of reason. I would have gone out to make sure my brother was ok as well, and he did say to Rick that he should have killed the Gov when he had a chance. I'm still scratching my head as to why Rick even was talking to the Gov after what he did to them at the prison and his friends back at woodbury. And to have a drink with him??? Wake the fuck up Rick!!! Terrible....

[General Ian Zane]

Based on the First Rule of American Horror Writing, either Glenn or Maggie has to die now

[Crumple]

I think Rick didn't shoot the govenor on sight was because of last week's episode, in which, in my opinion, he seemed to regain some of his humanity/care for others. not that he cares so much about the govenor but the idea of just having his own area (i.e. one side of the river or whatever) without having to deal with the guy was attractive (still is I guess, based on his contemplating with Hershel at the end re: giving over Michonne).

He also couldn't be sure he could put a bullet in him and still get out alove...he had no idea if the meeting place was surrounded or a set up. It could simply be that if I'm wrong on the above.

I found Merle's face interesting at the very end...Darrly sort of nodded to him...and Merle didn't nod back...just stayed stone faced. Dunno what's up with that.

[Double Tap]

I think Rick didn't shoot the govenor on sight was because of last week's episode, in which, in my opinion, he seemed to regain some of his humanity/care for others. not that he cares so much about the govenor but the idea of just having his own area (i.e. one side of the river or whatever) without having to deal with the guy was attractive (still is I guess, based on his contemplating with Hershel at the end re: giving over Michonne).

He also couldn't be sure he could put a bullet in him and still get out alove...he had no idea if the meeting place was surrounded or a set up. It could simply be that if I'm wrong on the above.

I found Merle's face interesting at the very end...Darrly sort of nodded to him...and Merle didn't nod back...just stayed stone faced. Dunno what's up with that.

This bolded part is the only real legit reason I would understand his decision. Everything else is dumb. It's like killing Hitler or Hussein. You kill the leader they lose all sorts of momentum or leadership. They also lose the dictatorship that was bent on evil ways.

[BenRai2k]

Hope you noticed Carol's new body length grey cardigan she was wearing now it is getting cold there! Wonder which of her bags she managed to pack that in to when she was on the road

Rick was fast to kill Tomas and I don't blame him. Even left the hiker to die. Now in front of the Gov who caused major issues...lets him call the shots? Mmm..it is a bit confusing to be honest. I understand in a TV show sense he can't really just blast the Gov there.Arrow on the Doorpost sounds like a threat message being sent, so maybe they should have had it sent to the prison as a ransom or something. "Michonne or GTFO" Rick wasn't sure if others were there though, can only be the real cause he didn't do it.

Oh yes, also...noticed Carl has had a haircut. In Suicide King I noticed a shot where Carl had shorter hair - then it was long again, through from Home - Clear. Now it is short again. Thought that kind of interesting in an editing/filming way.

[saltydog75]

2. If Andrea set up the meeting between the Governor and Rick, why did she act surprised that the Governor was there?

My impression is that she was surprised he was ALREADY there. Presumably he got there early so he could tape the gun to the bottom of the table and thus appear to be unarmed, get Rick to drop his guard, and then shoot him, then "tell a story" about how he had to shoot Rick because he drew on him. He needed to get there before Andrea expected so she wouldn't know about the ruse of the hidden gun.

3. So done with The Governor. I really hope he dies at the end of the season. The execution of this character failed in every way and at this point the fact that he's still alive is a huge suspension of disbelief. Are you telling me Rick can casually shoot two guys in a bar without batting an eyelash, but he doesn't put a bullet between the Governor's eyes the minute he sees him? The Governor stands right in front of the prison for like a whole 10 minutes and nobody can shoot him? Andrea can't kill him? And on top of that, he doesn't even WANT the prison? He just wants Michonne? Come on. What made the Governor so great in the comics is that he lived that long because he was unreachable. No one could get near him. But this Governor is so invincible he could probably sneak into the prison and take a nap with Carol and then just walk back to Woodbury without anyone giving him a scratch. Kill the bitch already.

I think Rick still has the moral need to be "good". Even as much as this world has changed him, he's not going to agree to meet with TG and then shoot him. Shooting TG when he was assaulting the prison would have been OK, but agreeing to meet to talk, and using that as a pretext to kill him, goes against Rick's morality. It's designed to illustrate how even with all that's gone on, good and evil still exist. TG is evil because he does things like pretend to be disarmed when he has a gun taped underneath the table. He's a snake - he can't be trusted. When Rick agrees to a meeting, he lives up to his word that it's a meeting, not a trap.

[Mamaof3Littles]

This felt VERY Tarantino like to me. Just the AMOUNT of talking with the small bits of humor in the periphere. It reminded me of Death Proof in it's pacing, excpet the big action never came. I liked it. But I didn't LOVE it like I did last week, I think I am tired of the Governor. I want him dead. I want to move on.

[senojsi]

It was an ok episode.
Ricks talk at the end was getting his peeps ready for war.
No he is not giving up Michonne.
The Gov and Rick talking was pretty boring, they just kicked Andrea out, lol. I'm glad to see that she's waking up.Her and Michonne would make a great team
Darryl and Martinez was pretty interesting.

[Deadpelican]

And turn over Michonne?

I think this is another example of the writers trying to create moral dilemmas/ impossible choices that really aren't necessary and are often implausible.

The governor has said, in no uncertain terms, that he's ready to kill everyone in Rick's group including his infant daughter. Based on that alone, it's absurd to think that the governor would ever uphold his end of the bargain if he did turn Michonne over.

I can hear the writers saying "We can't just end the episode with the simple understanding that there will be war. No, we have to create another impossible choice for RIck- give him something else to wrestle with for another episode or two because hey, that's what we do."

But in the end it's all pretty absurd because any sensible person just knows that the governor is going to try and kill them all, no matter what.

And being an ex-cop Rick should know this as well or at least know something about sociopaths and the way that they operate.

[Vulture Lives]

You must have missed that entire situation with Rick and co. leading an armed assault on Woodbury to rescue the kidnapped Glenn and Maggie, coupled with Michonne taking his eye and finishing off his zombie daughter. They then followed up that attack with a secondary assault a short time later. Would you expect the leader of any group of people, much less this sociopath, to take that laying down?

It's already established that the governor is not only pschotic, but that he will happily exterminate anything he sees as a threat to his power. Hence gunning down the unsuspecting National Guardsmen. Why would he not see a group that has lead two heavily armed assaults on his village as a threat?

Okay. So, what was the purpose of kidnapping Glenn and Maggie in the first place?

[OneMeatball]

How did the Governor know about Rick's gun haul? I think he tortured Morgan to get that information.

[Jayne23]

actually the kidnapping of glenn and maggie was just merle being out and thought why not......
then it was turned into Gov wanting to know what they had and where held up at.
again remember it was merle who found andrea and michonne in woods hiding.
Lets face it merle and daryl are good woodsmen.

[At Risk]

When Rick told the prison group that TG wanted war, I was SO happy. I figured he saw through the whole trade-Michonne-for-peace lie, but he thought it better to not get the group riled up with the mere possibility of that working.

... but then it turns out he is considering it as a real deal. Boo! I hope it does turn into a trojan horse situation (or any kind of plan that shows Rick isn't going to put his trust in the Governor's word).

And where does Michonne keep getting new shirts from?

[Mamaof3Littles]

How did the Governor know about Rick's gun haul? I think he tortured Morgan to get that information.

Spies on the prison.. they would have seen the guns being unloaded...

[Marrock]

I haven't liked Andrea since she first pulled a gun (with the safety on no less) out on Rick at the department store in ATL. She's as dumb as a box of rocks. I hope that her gossip about his kid hits a nerve with Rick so badly that he does NOT take her back in the group.

Wish they killed her off at the CDC. What a drag she is on this show. Boring and stupid.