[Daisy]

Here's a brief review of "clear".

I wish i'd never seen that bloody Jericho show.

I wish you'd never seen that bloody Jericho show either

Glad we never got any Woodbury in "Clear", I'm over that town and the war.

Agreed. It's the worst. The moment Andrea and that storyline don't appear the show is instantly better.

[theblackboxlies]

I seriously doubt that Morgan will go to them, though. It would make more sense for them to go back to where Morgan is as a group (even if it's just during an escape and they're going to pick him up.

That does make a lot of sense.

[Judari]

I'm thinking we may see a change in Carl under Michonne's influence. The smile he gave Rick while packing the car seemed to denote approval, if not admiration. She knows how to handle him. Everyone else in the prison has other things to worry about. Carl has the designation of being the kid who has to grow up quickly. Michonne was more a buddy to him than anyone has been thus far on the show. More than that, she didn't view his need of the picture as something trivial, but something worthy of risk.

That's all true on Michonne's part but that doesn't mean it got through to Carl. At least I didn't see any indication of that in this episode. Of course he told Rick he approves of her but that can just mean that he knows she will back him up when he wants to do reckless things not to reconsider doing reckless things in the first place. We can only hope Carl continues to grow with the help of Michonne's friendship in future episodes.

The single walker on the farm - a couple of walkers when he was looking for the infirmary - Carl didn't really see those situations as major threats to himself. Walking away from them unscathed didn't help that attitude. This time, he has to acknowledge that Michonne saved his life in that cafe - he would have died if she hadn't been there. I think that will have more of an impact on him.

We can only hope. I do think that he should have taken more away from the Dale situation than 'I should have killed the walker', but then again he is 12 so that could be true that its all he really grasped from the situation. I agree and think that himself walking away without any real consequences is the root of his problem. I think the tipping point for me is I'm not sure at this point if the realization Michonne saved his life registered as "don't be reckless" or "get someone to help you be reckless."

The only reason I don't count the situation with Tyreese is because Rick told Carl he was in charge while he was gone. Carl acted based on that - he was the leader until Rick returned and he has it in his mind that's what a leader should do. When Hershel tried to stop him, Carl countered by telling him that's what his dad would do. Carl was partially wrong because Rick would not have gone alone, but nobody corrected him on that. It was a mistake, but it was made due to Carl not really understanding what it means to be a leader and mistakenly thinking his dad would have handled it the same way.

Fair enough. I just viewed Rick leaving Carl as "in charge" the same way my uncle tells his 8yo son he is "the man of the house" and to watch out for his mom while he goes away on business for the weekend. No real passing of authority there, but of course for the child they are going to take it more seriously than that. However, I also think someone should have corrected him then, but then who else could have went with him? I don't know if Axel was in the cell block at the time and Hershel would have been more of a liability. Its not a huge nitpick but I think its just another think that reinforces Carl's ideas that its okay to go off alone.

You make an interesting point about Daryl though. Carl is trying to emulate his father - as evidenced by his comment to Hershel - but he is also influenced by Daryl. I think Carl has come to admire Daryl quite a bit - going back to that day he encountered that walker on the farm, it appeared that he was looking for Daryl when he went into the woods. He went to where Daryl had set up his camp by himself - played with the motorcycle, took the gun, etc... Carl's confusion about how Rick would handle things could stem from his view of Daryl as well. Daryl was always more of a loner and that has only changed recently. In a way, Daryl had to learn that lesson as well - if he hadn't gone off by himself in Chupacabra, things would have gone smoother for him that day. Daryl doesn't really do that now, but he did when they were on the farm so I can see where that would influence Carl's thinking.

Mostly I think Carl is just trying to prove himself and thinks that he needs to do things on his own in order to do so. That's pretty common with kids. From the two year old insisting "me do it" to the teenager begging their parents to let them go to that party or concert without chaperones. It's all about independence really. Carl was forced into adult situations at a young age because of the ZA, but he is still a pre-teen. Lori's efforts to shelter and protect him naturally led to him rebelling because he wanted to prove himself as a valuable member of the group. He wants to be seen as independent and capable of taking care of himself. The problem is that they now live in a world where the problems typically involve life or death situations so Carl is going to have to learn that doing things on his own is not always going to be feasible and accepting help doesn't mean he's not independent or capable of taking care of himself.

Sometimes I think I forget that Carl grew up in a small town and I judge him like he should have the streets smarts of a city kid. Carl was sheltered all his life up until ZA not just by an overprotected Lori but a calm small town environment. He has less reason to be naturally cautious. I think its normal for kids to want more independence as they grow up like you said. However for Carl I think its been multiplied for him since he has been pushed from a very sheltered environment into an extremely unsheltered one. Some kids would become terrified of everything and regress but Carl did the opposite and is taking independence to an extreme. I spent some time in a private Catholic HS and I saw a girl who was so sheltered by her parents she wasn't ever allowed to do anything but once she hit college and had freedom literally went wild. To the point as well she ran up to me in the grocery store to brag about every deed shes done from sex to drugs (it was a real wtf moment for me because I wasn't even her friend in HS). However, my point is I think a kid's reaction to independence depends on their previous environments, I don't think taking it this far like Carl has is normal. Plus like we said before it doesn't help Carl is around adults, its really now all he has to compare his actions to.

[meesha1971]

In regards to Rick and crew having a setup similar to Morgan's.

I fear Morgan had never encountered a herd before. Rick witnessing the massive numbers of walkers first hand, knows that Morgans defenses, though effective against maybe one or two dozen walkers at a time, would be overrun by a herd. granted you can hide from a herd, wlkers are quite persistent and eventually you would need to exit into streets crawling with walkers.

That's a good point. It doesn't appear that Morgan has encountered a herd yet. If one were to come through Kings County, it is likely Morgan would still survive since he has the high ground - so to speak - but all of his traps would be destroyed by a herd. That is something they could potentially use to bring Morgan back and incorporate him into the group later on - if Lennie James is available of course. At some point, the group will have to leave the prison so it's feasible they could head back to Kings County and rescue Morgan from a herd.

I'm thinking we may see a change in Carl under Michonne's influence. The smile he gave Rick while packing the car seemed to denote approval, if not admiration. She knows how to handle him. Everyone else in the prison has other things to worry about. Carl has the designation of being the kid who has to grow up quickly. Michonne was more a buddy to him than anyone has been thus far on the show. More than that, she didn't view his need of the picture as something trivial, but something worthy of risk.

I agree. Carl's role in the group has shifted from "little kid to be protected and sheltered" to "child solder", but they do still see him as a kid. Carol has become a mother figure. Beth yelled at him for talking back to Lori. Hershel is kind of a grandfather - though he doesn't try to enforce authority over Carl, he will try to give him advice. Rick is still his father and, while it's great to see him teaching Carl what he needs to know to survive - i.e. the lesson about how to get a car unstuck from the mud in this episode, it is still a parent-child relationship.

To this point, Daryl has been more of a buddy to Carl - and Carl does appear to admire Daryl a lot - but he can't entirely relate to what Carl has been through. He came the closest because his own mother died in a horrible way, but he wasn't put in the position of having to shoot his mother in the head to prevent her from becoming a zombie either and Carl was quick to point that out. As much as he appreciated the comfort Daryl was trying to offer, he knew Daryl couldn't completely relate to what he had to do when Lori died.

They haven't gone into her background very deeply yet so we don't know how much they will use from the comic, but I get the impression that Michonne will be able to relate to Carl on that level. Like Daryl, Michonne didn't talk down to him and she understood that getting that picture was important to him even if he didn't tell her why until after she retrieved it. She didn't try to stop him - she helped him and she didn't try to cut him out when his initial attempt failed. She included him by having him stay where he was to distract the walkers so she could sneak back in to get the picture. And she helped him cover his lie to Rick by actually getting a porta-crib and other supplies. She earned Carl's respect and his trust there and I think he will actually listen to her because of that.

When Rick made the comment, "I see things," it seemed to me a healthy step in admitting he hasn't been in the best mental health. She identified with the revelation and allowed for it. Yes. I see good things for this threesome. Tight trust and friendship - between all three.

That was a great moment - and why I think they will show that Michonne can relate to what they've been through. I like how Michonne handles herself. She was very closed off at first, but I think that's understandable. She had only been around these people for a couple of days so she was still feeling them out. I think hearing Rick tell Carl that he was only allowing Michonne to stick around because they had a common enemy and she would be sent away after they dealt with that situation made her realize that she needed to do something to prove herself. She needed to show them that they have more in common than an enemy. It's good that she opened up to Rick that way because now he knows there is someone in the group who understands what he's going through - he can talk to her if he needs to. She's made a good start with Rick and Carl - I think that will extend to the rest of the group once they get back to the prison as well.

[meesha1971]

That's all true on Michonne's part but that doesn't mean it got through to Carl. At least I didn't see any indication of that in this episode. Of course he told Rick he approves of her but that can just mean that he knows she will back him up when he wants to do reckless things not to reconsider doing reckless things in the first place. We can only hope Carl continues to grow with the help of Michonne's friendship in future episodes.

What stood out for me was how Carl responded when Michonne told him "this is how we get things done". Getting that picture was something he felt he had to do on his own because it was something he could do for Judith. He wanted to go back in through the front door - with all the walkers pressing against it - but he stopped and listened to what Michonne had to say. He understood and accepted that she was right and he followed her instructions. Michonne's plan was a lot better than just rushing back in the front door and he realized that. I didn't see that as Michonne helping him be reckless, but rather teaching how to get things down without being reckless and accepting help from others. I think Carl did understand what she was telling him there and that will make a difference in his future behavior. It won't be an instant cure, but it's a really good start, IMO.

We can only hope. I do think that he should have taken more away from the Dale situation than 'I should have killed the walker', but then again he is 12 so that could be true that its all he really grasped from the situation. I agree and think that himself walking away without any real consequences is the root of his problem. I think the tipping point for me is I'm not sure at this point if the realization Michonne saved his life registered as "don't be reckless" or "get someone to help you be reckless."

Yeah, he should have taken more away from what happened to Dale, but at 11-12, that was what stood out for him. If he had killed that walker when he had the chance, Dale would not have died. He's not entirely wrong there because he did have a good opportunity to kill that walker. It was stuck and couldn't get to him. He wasted time agitating the walker by throwing rocks at it and walking closer where it could grab him instead of just shooting it and that resulted in him having a narrow escape and that walker being able to free itself and killing Dale later that night. Carl didn't stop to consider the fact that telling someone about the walker could have made a difference because he was focused on the fact that he had a chance to kill it and didn't do it. That's what he told Shane and Rick later on - he felt guilty for not killing the walker. There was a good lesson there because that did help Carl in terms of learning how to defend himself and others, but he didn't grasp the entire lesson because nobody really addressed the full problem there. I think they were soft on Carl because he felt so guilty about not killing the walker. Neither Shane nor Rick talked to him about wandering off on his own like that or the fact that he didn't tell anyone about the walker. It's understandable that Carl's guilt would be their focus, but that was something that should have been addressed as well.

I don't know if Michonne saving his life registered immediately because he was so focused on getting the picture, but I think that is something that will stand out when he thinks about what happened. The fact that he listened to her and followed her instructions because he understood that she was right suggests that was starting to sink in - to me anyway. I think Carl will come away from that with a better understanding of why it would have been so dangerous for him to have attempted to do that alone. And that will hopefully help him understand why it's so dangerous for anyone to attempt to do things like that alone.

Fair enough. I just viewed Rick leaving Carl as "in charge" the same way my uncle tells his 8yo son he is "the man of the house" and to watch out for his mom while he goes away on business for the weekend. No real passing of authority there, but of course for the child they are going to take it more seriously than that. However, I also think someone should have corrected him then, but then who else could have went with him? I don't know if Axel was in the cell block at the time and Hershel would have been more of a liability. Its not a huge nitpick but I think its just another think that reinforces Carl's ideas that its okay to go off alone.

I think that is probably what Rick intended. He wasn't expecting anyone to get into the prison like Tyreese's group did. They had dealt with Andrew and Rick had personally cleared out the boiler block after that. He figured the prison would be safe and leaving Carl in charge wouldn't involve much more than assigning people to keep watch, taking care of Judith, and continuing to get their cell block set up as a viable living space. Axel and Carol were keeping watch from the tower when they heard the screaming from the tombs. That left Hershel, Beth, and the baby in the cell block with Carl. Carl took Rick's words literally and considered himself the leader in Rick's absence. He was even making plans to go on a run for baby formula by himself if Rick wasn't back by a certain time. He is trying very hard to emulate Rick and he thinks that he is doing what his dad would do, but he's not fully realizing that Rick would never attempt to do things like that alone. And Rick's breakdown after Lori died didn't really help because that was the one time he did go off on his own. I think Hershel didn't really know how to get through to Carl to explain that. If Carol had been there, she might have mentioned that Rick wouldn't do something like that on his own. That's probably why they wrote it to have Carol and Axel keeping watch in the tower.

Sometimes I think I forget that Carl grew up in a small town and I judge him like he should have the streets smarts of a city kid. Carl was sheltered all his life up until ZA not just by an overprotected Lori but a calm small town environment. He has less reason to be naturally cautious. I think its normal for kids to want more independence as they grow up like you said. However for Carl I think its been multiplied for him since he has been pushed from a very sheltered environment into an extremely unsheltered one. Some kids would become terrified of everything and regress but Carl did the opposite and is taking independence to an extreme. I spent some time in a private Catholic HS and I saw a girl who was so sheltered by her parents she wasn't ever allowed to do anything but once she hit college and had freedom literally went wild. To the point as well she ran up to me in the grocery store to brag about every deed shes done from sex to drugs (it was a real wtf moment for me because I wasn't even her friend in HS). However, my point is I think a kid's reaction to independence depends on their previous environments, I don't think taking it this far like Carl has is normal. Plus like we said before it doesn't help Carl is around adults, its really now all he has to compare his actions to.

Growing up in a small town myself, I can relate to that mindset. My own sons rebelled in very similar ways to what Carl has done on the show - minus the threat of zombies of course. I had many arguments with my older boys when they were that age because they were always wanting to do things on their own - and would attempt to sneak and do things when I said no. I'm prepared for my youngest to do the same now that he's getting to that age. I think Carl's behavior is very normal because I can see where my own sons would very likely do the same things in situations like that. Pre-teens and teenagers can be very stubborn about independence because they believe that doing things on their own is what makes them independent. They rebel because they think their parents don't want to let them grow up. I did the same when I was a teenager - I was so sure my parents were idiots and just wanted to force me to act like a child forever so they could control everything I did. Then I had kids of my own and have apologized to them frequently for my terrible behavior. LOL

Carl not having anyone his own age around could go either way. Someone his own age could feel the same way and encourage that rebellion. Or they could just sit around and complain about how the adults never let them do anything. Either way, I think it's natural for Carl to rebel this way and want to prove himself to the adults, but it is something that will have to be addressed because he doesn't fully understand why his efforts to prove himself are only showing him to be reckless. He hasn't grasped the fact that the adults work together and don't take on dangerous situations by themselves. I do think that is normal because most kids do go through that stage where they feel they know everything and resent adults because they think they are trying to hold them back. It's part of growing up, but living in such a dangerous world means the adults have to adjust how they deal with that kind of rebellion as well. Carl had to learn how to defend himself and others the same as the adults did - they couldn't keep sheltering him because they can't guarantee that they will always be there to protect him. Now he has to learn that there is a lot more to surviving than just being able to shoot a gun and kill zombies. Working with the group, being cautious, and thinking things through before acting are important lessons for Carl as well. I think this incident with Michonne was a good start to Carl beginning to learn those lessons.

[Mamaof3Littles]

Do walkers eat other animals? I never caught that early on, I thought they only smelt Humans?

You may be thinking of the more recent Dawn of the Dead.. the zombies in that movie were not interested in animals at all. They used a dog to run back and forth between buildings.

[Shane is the Man]

I think his allowing Michonne to drive back was his way of "relininquising leadership" as Carl has suggested. I also think it's an indication that he's trusting her (and Carl's judgement) a little more. I'm glad because I really wanted Michonne to be incorporated into the group as she has so much to offer.

Why does everyone keep harping on why Michonne drove on the way back. She drove BOTH times! Remember, that's why Carl and Rick were bitching about her getting them stuck in the mud.

[the Walkin Dude]

Ok, just watched it last night.Thought it was excellent. Was not impressed at all with the Morgan reunion, yes i admit the acting was great. However crazy he was he showed me he would kill any human who stumbled his way, innocent or not so innocent. Didn't like that aspect of him at all. Loved Michonne's interaction with Carl and Rick. Carl's behaviour didn't upset me as much as it appears to have others on here. Yes, 12 - 13 year old kids can be wreckless and stubborn in today 's life and or the ZA life. Agree with a lot of others glad no Woodbury, Gov or Andrea this week. Great show.

[daenerys]

Gave this episode a 'Good'

It was good to see Morgan again, although it's sad how he has ended up. I think it was realistic though after all he has been through.

Michonne was excellent in this episode. She's almost topping Daryl for my favourite character these days. I loved her line 'The sign said welcome.'
It's nice to see her bonding with Carl and Rick too, although I thought her retrieving the cat figurine was a bit random. I understand the writers want to soften her a little as a character but I wish they had given her something else to pick up. Maybe a piece of jewellery or something? IDK, I just know I want to see that stupid cat set up somewhere in the background of her cell at least once in the future and not forgotten.

The man on the road was interesting. I felt sorry for him when Rick and Co didn't stop but it illustrates perfectly the type of world they live in now. Who's to say the guy didn't have five friends in the bushes waiting to jump them? Trust no one - and yet without trust what kind of future does anyone have? Actually, this is one of my favourite story line themes to date.

The only reason I didn't give the ep an excellent is because I kept wondering what was happening to the others back at the prison. The episodes are too short - which I guess is only a good thing!

[Major Tom]

hey guys and gals, has anyone else noticed the difference between this show lately and Jericho?
I thought at first it was the same writers.

The storylines are very similar, which is annoying as Jericho was total crap.

The writing is similar and the plots are now starting to merge.

Here's some similarities.

Both set in apocalypse/survival scenarios.
both involve 2 camps at war with each other.
both shows have really crap battles, bordering on farcical.
both shows involved the good guys sneaking into the camp and getting captured
both shows have a ceasefire and a meeting with the 2 leaders.

any others see the similarities?

Thanks guys!

They both take place in the USA.

Sorry, S3 has been a bit of a disappointment until "Clear" but I am not seeing any meaningful similarities. I watched all the Jericho series and I agree it was definitely middling In my opinion TWD is far better series overall and I am not seeing what you are seeing. Have you seen the NBC series Revolution? All 5 of the similarities you mentioned fit that series better than TWD, and they keep repeating the similarities every 2-3 episodes. All the things you mention are legitimate plot devices that are used in many novels, movies and TV series. It is all about how they are woven into the story.

The whole rival camp arc does not appeal to me and I will be glad when it is over. I understand that outlaws will have to be dealt with from time to time but I want the show to be about us against the Z's and not a civil war with the zombies as a background nuisance. For me S3 would have been better with the emphasis on clearing the prison of Z's and introducing new characters. Woodbury would have been fine simmering in the background with a big season finale the only major Woodbury episode.

[Alien Angie]

I was left with such bittersweet feelings. I was so happy to see Morgan but so sad to see how his past year has been and that he isn't coming to the prison. I had hoped he would come with them but I understand why not. He might have lost less people in his life the past year than Rick has, but he's been so isolated, it was sad. Guilt is tearing him up so much, I really do hope this brings Rick back.

I also enjoyed the interaction between Michionne and Rick at the end. When he was looking out theSUV window, I kept thinking back to Shane and 18 miles out when he was watching the roamer in the field, a moment of self reflection for both Rick and Shane. I was confused on why Michionne was driving though, just seemed odd.

It was nice to have a break from Andrea and The Gov, I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. Is it wrong that I told my son that I wouldn't ever eat him and that I give him permission to shoot me guilt free?

[Alien Angie]

As to why Michonne was driving. ..
"You wanna drive?"
"Yeah"
"Good. Because I see things"

There ya go!

[purple-rage]

She was loading one in the car to take back to the group and in the sneak peaks it looks like the one Daryl is carrying. So my question is why? She doesn't seem like the overly sentimental type, "Oh look there's a crossbow, Daryl would like that". That's especially true given that Daryl spent a good bit of time pointing his crossbow at her, plus he's Merle's brother. So either this a gift to get in good with the group or possibly a bid to get in good with Daryl specifically. With Tyreese off at Woodbury and that whole comic arc killed between him and Carol could we be looking at a new angle to send her to her comic fate?

I think Rick packed the bow and all the guns and was taking his last load of bags to the car when Michonne and Carl finnaly show up with the crib. I didnt see a bow in any of their bags until they were at the car.

[Dr Cank]

Why does everyone keep harping on why Michonne drove on the way back. She drove BOTH times! Remember, that's why Carl and Rick were bitching about her getting them stuck in the mud.

As to why Michonne was driving. ..
"You wanna drive?"
"Yeah"
"Good. Because I see things"

There ya go!

Shane the man was referring to Michonne driving to Kings Co. (when she got caught in the mud).

I thought having her drive on this first leg on the trip was also good writing. If you don't trust someone you make them drive. Their hands are on the wheel instead of on their Katina. Also Rick would be unable to keep his both on her and the road.

[Dr Cank]

I think Rick packed the bow and all the guns and was taking his last load of bags to the car when Michonne and Carl finnaly show up with the crib. I didnt see a bow in any of their bags until they were at the car.

I believe that crossbow was slung over her shoulder when they were having the "I see things" conversation.

[Grénádé]

The major thing for me with Carl is we haven't seen him kill a walker without a gun. Being able to take down walkers without guns is huge and until Carl is able to do that he needs to mellow out on the Ramboing. This is a major reason I almost wish they would get an older actor for Carl for season four or later to open up story lines for him with either some hanky-panky, getting his ass kicked or some melee combat.

[Blasko_Z]

The major thing for me with Carl is we haven't seen him kill a walker without a gun. Being able to take down walkers without guns is huge and until Carl is able to do that he needs to mellow out on the Ramboing. This is a major reason I almost wish they would get an older actor for Carl for season four or later to open up story lines for him with either some hanky-panky, getting his ass kicked or some melee combat.

In the same vein as this post, we have never seen Michonne use a gun. I am curious if she knows how. I am sure Rick and Co. could piece together a strategy that utilizes her stealth and melee skill-set, but it seems that, in the upcoming war, Mich is bringing a knife to a gunfight, quite literally.

[walkerbait13]

In the same vein as this post, we have never seen Michonne use a gun. I am curious if she knows how. I am sure Rick and Co. could piece together a strategy that utilizes her stealth and melee skill-set, but it seems that, in the upcoming war, Mich is bringing a knife to a gunfight, quite literally.

She shot at the governor in the first prison battle while taking cover behind the bus!

[Blasko_Z]

She shot at the governor in the first prison battle while taking cover behind the bus!

Did she? I have no recollection of that, but that means nothing. I will re-watch and see. I take it she didn't hit anything, though, as Maggie was the only one to manage that.

[tricky92]

She shot at the governor in the first prison battle while taking cover behind the bus!

Absolutely correct.

[walkerbait13]

Absolutely correct.

Yaaayyy I'm not crazy!!






.......or am I?? XD

[rxilovedead76]

I think you're spot on with pretty much everything but the radio (which I bolded in what I quoted). You make it sound like Rick didn't get up at dawn every morning to radio Morgan, speaking in vain to a man that hadn't "worked up to it" yet. The last call that Rick made before he knew he would be out of range, you could see he torment in his eyes that he hadn't reached Morgan yet.

Rick wasn't just "too preoccupied" and said a big eff you to Morgan. He really tried until events out of his control forced him out of radio range. It most certainly didn't have anything to do with "baby drama" from Shane and Lori. Lori didn't even find out she was pregnant until they were on the farm after all. You could see the loss Rick felt during that last call to warn Morgan away from Atlanta.

[rxilovedead76]

I agree. Morgan saved him straight out of a coma. He tried till he couldnt anymore.

[Judari]

What stood out for me was how Carl responded when Michonne told him "this is how we get things done". Getting that picture was something he felt he had to do on his own because it was something he could do for Judith. He wanted to go back in through the front door - with all the walkers pressing against it - but he stopped and listened to what Michonne had to say. He understood and accepted that she was right and he followed her instructions. Michonne's plan was a lot better than just rushing back in the front door and he realized that. I didn't see that as Michonne helping him be reckless, but rather teaching how to get things down without being reckless and accepting help from others. I think Carl did understand what she was telling him there and that will make a difference in his future behavior. It won't be an instant cure, but it's a really good start, IMO.

I think we just view it differently. I thought Carl listened to Michonne because she was the first one to ever call him out in a "stop the shit kid" kinda way. Of course Lori chided him and both Rick and Shane had talked to him before but I think Michonne intimidated him a bit. His reaction was abrupt and he didn't even rebut. He has ignored his fathers orders before (earlier in the episode for example) but because no one has ever been so blunt with him he was taken back and listened. As far as him helping him be reckless, like I said I don't think it was her intention and like you said her plan was a lot better. However I just see Carl walking away with a "I can still do whatever I want, I'll just have back up now" rather than "I should think things through more before I act." I mean at least he has back up now so it is a start to something however I just don't think he fully understood the gravity of the situation because he is still viewing it as a child would.

That's what he told Shane and Rick later on - he felt guilty for not killing the walker. There was a good lesson there because that did help Carl in terms of learning how to defend himself and others, but he didn't grasp the entire lesson because nobody really addressed the full problem there. I think they were soft on Carl because he felt so guilty about not killing the walker. Neither Shane nor Rick talked to him about wandering off on his own like that or the fact that he didn't tell anyone about the walker. It's understandable that Carl's guilt would be their focus, but that was something that should have been addressed as well.

That's a good point there, they did fail to address that. Although with so much going on you can't really fault them either.

I don't know if Michonne saving his life registered immediately because he was so focused on getting the picture, but I think that is something that will stand out when he thinks about what happened. The fact that he listened to her and followed her instructions because he understood that she was right suggests that was starting to sink in - to me anyway. I think Carl will come away from that with a better understanding of why it would have been so dangerous for him to have attempted to do that alone. And that will hopefully help him understand why it's so dangerous for anyone to attempt to do things like that alone.

I think its definitely a situation where if he learns something from it will be in reflection at a later time so I agree with that. As I mentioned above I think his initial listening to her was that he was taken back by her no BS approach. While its not a combination I ever would have thought of hopefully we can see more of Michonne and Carl scenes in the future. I think her tough approach is good for him as she treats him like an adult messing up and not a child who needs to be sent to the corner.

I think that is probably what Rick intended. He wasn't expecting anyone to get into the prison like Tyreese's group did. They had dealt with Andrew and Rick had personally cleared out the boiler block after that. He figured the prison would be safe and leaving Carl in charge wouldn't involve much more than assigning people to keep watch, taking care of Judith, and continuing to get their cell block set up as a viable living space. Axel and Carol were keeping watch from the tower when they heard the screaming from the tombs. That left Hershel, Beth, and the baby in the cell block with Carl. Carl took Rick's words literally and considered himself the leader in Rick's absence. He was even making plans to go on a run for baby formula by himself if Rick wasn't back by a certain time. He is trying very hard to emulate Rick and he thinks that he is doing what his dad would do, but he's not fully realizing that Rick would never attempt to do things like that alone. And Rick's breakdown after Lori died didn't really help because that was the one time he did go off on his own. I think Hershel didn't really know how to get through to Carl to explain that. If Carol had been there, she might have mentioned that Rick wouldn't do something like that on his own. That's probably why they wrote it to have Carol and Axel keeping watch in the tower.

I agreed. Not to mention Rick visiting crazytown lol. At least we know Carl did understand Rick was under stress but that probably didn't help either.

Growing up in a small town myself, I can relate to that mindset. My own sons rebelled in very similar ways to what Carl has done on the show - minus the threat of zombies of course. I had many arguments with my older boys when they were that age because they were always wanting to do things on their own - and would attempt to sneak and do things when I said no. I'm prepared for my youngest to do the same now that he's getting to that age. I think Carl's behavior is very normal because I can see where my own sons would very likely do the same things in situations like that. Pre-teens and teenagers can be very stubborn about independence because they believe that doing things on their own is what makes them independent. They rebel because they think their parents don't want to let them grow up. I did the same when I was a teenager - I was so sure my parents were idiots and just wanted to force me to act like a child forever so they could control everything I did. Then I had kids of my own and have apologized to them frequently for my terrible behavior. LOL

Carl not having anyone his own age around could go either way. Someone his own age could feel the same way and encourage that rebellion. Or they could just sit around and complain about how the adults never let them do anything. Either way, I think it's natural for Carl to rebel this way and want to prove himself to the adults, but it is something that will have to be addressed because he doesn't fully understand why his efforts to prove himself are only showing him to be reckless. He hasn't grasped the fact that the adults work together and don't take on dangerous situations by themselves. I do think that is normal because most kids do go through that stage where they feel they know everything and resent adults because they think they are trying to hold them back. It's part of growing up, but living in such a dangerous world means the adults have to adjust how they deal with that kind of rebellion as well. Carl had to learn how to defend himself and others the same as the adults did - they couldn't keep sheltering him because they can't guarantee that they will always be there to protect him. Now he has to learn that there is a lot more to surviving than just being able to shoot a gun and kill zombies. Working with the group, being cautious, and thinking things through before acting are important lessons for Carl as well. I think this incident with Michonne was a good start to Carl beginning to learn those lessons.

Bolded that part. I really think the adults need to adjust how to handle Carl. It's good they recognize that he had to learn how to protect himself in this new world but they give him this new responsibility and think he has the ability to handle it like an adult which he doesn't quite have yet. Understandable as he still is a kid though. I do think, like you mentioned, working with the group going out on runs and trips will help him understand teamwork better. However I find it a bit odd that with all Carl has done the grownups haven't seemed to realize he's doing all of this to prove himself, they haven't addressed that.

[meesha1971]

I think we just view it differently. I thought Carl listened to Michonne because she was the first one to ever call him out in a "stop the shit kid" kinda way. Of course Lori chided him and both Rick and Shane had talked to him before but I think Michonne intimidated him a bit. His reaction was abrupt and he didn't even rebut. He has ignored his fathers orders before (earlier in the episode for example) but because no one has ever been so blunt with him he was taken back and listened. As far as him helping him be reckless, like I said I don't think it was her intention and like you said her plan was a lot better. However I just see Carl walking away with a "I can still do whatever I want, I'll just have back up now" rather than "I should think things through more before I act." I mean at least he has back up now so it is a start to something however I just don't think he fully understood the gravity of the situation because he is still viewing it as a child would.

I think her approach is part of it, but more because Michonne was the first who didn't talk down to him. Shane got on to him a few times, but it was always something along the lines of "do what your mother says" and he was a parental/uncle figure for Carl. Kids tend to naturally rebel against their parents and other authority figures close to them because it's very easy for them to assume that those adults just want them to stay kids forever. Rick did a good job with his "no more kid stuff" speech because he approached Carl in a more adult way, but he focused on Carl's guilt about not killing the walker - which was understandable given the situation. Michonne approached him in an adult way as well, but she also addressed the danger of the situation. She refused to help him do something reckless and stopped him from doing it. Her plan was better because it was not reckless and I think that is what will stick with Carl. Michonne made it clear that she won't help him do stupid things, but she will help him think it through and come up with a more logical plan.

Both of Carl's attempts were reckless and show just how much he is still a kid. When they first got to the cafe, he was just going to walk in - Michonne stopped him, presented a safer plan, and they toss in the caged rats to distract the walkers. When he dropped the picture, he reacted emotionally and made to open the main door with all the walkers pressed against it trying to get out - Michonne stopped him again, told him no BS, and presented a safer plan. I don't think he's going to come away from that thinking he can still do whatever he wants and Michonne will back him up because she didn't and made it clear that she wouldn't. She forced him to think it through and showed him how to get things done by being cautious and not taking unnecessary risks. It wasn't that Carl had a bad idea, he was just going about it the wrong way and I think that will stick with him because both of Michonne's plans were better than his.

That's a good point there, they did fail to address that. Although with so much going on you can't really fault them either.

Well, I do fault Shane to some extent because he wasn't really thinking about Carl at that point. He saw that situation as an opportunity to move forward with his plan to murder Rick and used Carl as a distraction to delay Rick from leaving with Randall. Shane had covered for Carl on other occasions as well because he wanted to believe he was the better father. Rick and Lori didn't know about Carl sneaking into the shed with Randall because Shane didn't tell them. That's why Carl went to Shane instead of one of his parents - he figured Shane wouldn't punish him and would keep it a secret like he had before. Shane's actions reinforced Carl's tendency to sneak off on his own. That also plays into the way Rick handled the situation after Dale died because he was going by what Shane told him. He didn't address the issue of Carl sneaking off so frequently because he didn't actually know that was becoming a problem.

I think its definitely a situation where if he learns something from it will be in reflection at a later time so I agree with that. As I mentioned above I think his initial listening to her was that he was taken back by her no BS approach. While its not a combination I ever would have thought of hopefully we can see more of Michonne and Carl scenes in the future. I think her tough approach is good for him as she treats him like an adult messing up and not a child who needs to be sent to the corner.

I agree. Adults can have a tendency to talk down to kids and/or just take over - particularly when there is danger involved. Here, let me do it for you because that's too dangerous - which will naturally lead to rebellion because kids are seeking independence and want to prove they can do things on their own. Michonne's approach worked better because she didn't talk down to him or try to just do it for him. She just pointed out the danger involved and presented him with safer plans - letting him try it on his own with her backing him first and then including him by having him keep the walkers distracted when she went back in. That was more effective because she was teaching him a better way to do things himself rather than just trying to do it for him and shield him from danger.

I agreed. Not to mention Rick visiting crazytown lol. At least we know Carl did understand Rick was under stress but that probably didn't help either.

Yeah, I think that made it easier for Carl to justify wanting to do things on his own to himself. He knows Rick went off like that because he was grieving and angry that Lori had died, but it still gives him an example of his dad going off on his own. I don't think the fact that Rick took a huge risk there really registered for Carl - particularly since Rick came away from that without injury. I remember having arguments along those lines with my older son when he would try to take risks on his own - "nothing bad happened" was his usual line of defense because he didn't really understand that didn't mean nothing bad would ever happen. Carl needs to learn how to calculate all the possible risks involved so he can come up with plans that will help him minimize those risks - or avoid them.

Bolded that part. I really think the adults need to adjust how to handle Carl. It's good they recognize that he had to learn how to protect himself in this new world but they give him this new responsibility and think he has the ability to handle it like an adult which he doesn't quite have yet. Understandable as he still is a kid though. I do think, like you mentioned, working with the group going out on runs and trips will help him understand teamwork better. However I find it a bit odd that with all Carl has done the grownups haven't seemed to realize he's doing all of this to prove himself, they haven't addressed that.

I think that's a problem with the writing and the way Mazzara tends to rush through things. They aren't really creating situations where anyone has time to sit back and think about things like this or deal with them. From the point Shane used Carl as a distraction to delay Rick leaving with Randall, they have put the group into one dangerous situation after another with very little breathing room. Shane kills Randall and sends them all into a panic with his story about Randall escaping - they start searching for Randall - Shane tries to kill Rick with Rick killing him in self defense - Carl shows up and kills walker Shane - before Rick could address Carl leaving the house, a herd of walkers overran the farm - they spent the winter traveling in circles to avoid herds and barely had time to rest or eat because of that - they find the prison and immediately have to deal with threats from Tomas and Andrew causing the deaths of T-Dog and Lori, they've got a newborn now and have to focus on getting baby supplies, Michonne shows up very soon after to tell them about Glenn and Maggie being kidnapped, they go to Woodbury to rescue them - and then Daryl, the governor attacks, Andrea shows up - just one thing right after another. They've been at the prison for about a week and they've barely had a chance to sit down and eat without something happening.

That would reinforce Carl's behavior as well because, with everything else they're dealing with, I don't think any of them really knows everything Carl has done. On the farm, it was easy for Carl to slip off when the adults were distracted without anyone realizing it. Shane caught him a couple of times, but never said anything to Rick or Lori about it - and I doubt he said anything to anyone else in the group either. Carl confessed to Shane about encountering the walker that killed Dale, but Shane only told Rick - and I don't think Rick ever mentioned that to anyone else. Shane's claim that Randall had escaped, his attempt to murder Rick, and the herd overrunning the farm eclipsed that incident with Carl. Really, the only incidents they all know about are Carl sneaking out of the house the night they were driven off the farm and sneaking off to find the infirmary on his own when they were at the prison. Carl can be very sneaky and all the other things they have to deal with helped him get away with that a lot on the farm. He's been better at the prison, but he still needs to learn that he can't go running off on his own. Even the adults should not be running off on their own with all the dangers they face now.