[Creeper]

I agree - I don't care about Woodbury background characters being developed..they aren't there for that really. Same as Atlanta camps background people. Woodbury people are just props really and being used as puppets by the Gov. I am surprised Milton snitched on Andrea...he didn't have to say he knew Andrea left. Does Milton want children going to war? Any morals he kind of showed in other episodes seem to have gone out the window to me now.

But the Atlanta camp background people didn't occupy precious show time. They were JUST background.

Milton's morals are only there so long as they don't endanger himself. I actually like his characterization..people like that exist. He is so, paralyzingly afraid of the governor, he clearly wouldn't risk telling him anything less that every agonizing detail that he knows. I think Milton is a good guy, and no he doesn't want children going to war, but ultimately his character is destroyed by his concern for his own skin. Sometimes I just about expect him to wet his pants when TG addresses him.

[wyrd]

I think Merle still could be working for the Governor. Something sorta similar happened in the comics, in which he was pretending to be the good guy and helping Rick out, but he just wanted to know where the Prison was. I could see it happening, but I hope it doesn't.

If he does, I think the two brothers will end up killing themselves (after some serious damage caused by Merle)...

[Tay]

If he does, I think the two brothers will end up killing themselves (after some serious damage caused by Merle)...

It's possible, but I hope not. I believe Darryl will end up murdering his brother.

[Vulture Lives]

See, for me, maybe the problem was in the execution, but not in the idea. Woodbury in the comics was basically anonymous aside from TG and a few characters. It was a wonderful idea to open it up and see WHY this community worked the way it did... HOW it would have gotten that way. Plus, this treatment adds shades of gray. In the comics (which tend to be morally simplistic), TG and Woodbury = bad and Rick/prison = good. I like that we're seeing ordinary, boring, pedestrian stuff in Woodbury. It shows it's not some sort of dark castle where only evil lurks.

I disagree entirely. Moral ambiguity is a central theme of the comic book series. Shades of gray are its specialty. Morally simplistic? If anything, the moral dilemmas featured in the comics are extremely watered down and streamlined on the television show. Woodbury doesn't equal bad in the comics, as you have put it. The Governor is bad, yes. However, it's explicitly stated that the Governor has fooled the citizens of Woodbury into believing that he's a good man with good intentions. In other words, the citizens of Woodbury, in the comics, are mostly normal people who would've never gone along with the Governor if they knew what kind of man he really was. In fact, the Governor is ultimately (comic spoilers to follow)

Spoiler

murdered by a citizen of Woodbury who finds his actions reprehensible!

So, it's not quite a "dark castle where only evil lurks." Doc Stevens is certainly a good man (who happens to be faced with one of those "simplistic" moral dilemmas). He's also a developed character that is introduced to us organically; something that the TV show fails to do with its citizens of Woodbury characters. The dynamic between the Governor and his people in Woodbury is actually really similar to that of the TV show, only crafted in a much more compelling manner.

The TV show isn't attempting to answer the WHY or the HOW in regard to Woodbury. It's just giving us stilted scenes with nothing characters, for the express purpose of filling out the run-time. Personally speaking, I don't even find myself asking WHY or HOW. All we need to know is that the Governor fooled people into believing that he was a good man, which takes little time to explain. We don't need to know anything else in order for the plot to move forward. The TV show has a serious problem with moving the plot forward, however.

[tommysoprano]

My feelings right now:

The zombie make-up looked really bad. :S I have usually been impressed by the creativity of the make-up artists, and their application of the art, but not in this episode. The walker that Andrea dismembered looked like a generic dead guy, honestly it reminded me of a cheap tattoo. The swollen neck female walker wasn't really any better. =_=;

I feel Carl and Carol are the only two who made any sense in this episode. Kudos to her on being the only one who has a feasible (Albeit murderous) plan of action.

Really? Everyone is, of course, entitled to their own opinion, but studying the makeup to the point of picking it apart in the latest episode? I used to be obsessed with LOST, and still love the repeats and DVD's, but during the shows run on ABC, I used to religiously be part of a great message board, but after a while, people complained about every little thing. Again, I am not saying anyone shouldn't be allowed to voice any opinion they want, but it seems more and more that people complain more than they like this show? What is going on? Every single Sunday night I wait with anticipation and when the new show airs, it flies by for me! I wouldn't tell anyone what to watch or not watch, but if this show bothers people so much, how does it still get such great ratings, I wonder?

[Deadringer]

Solid down-time and build up episode, I liked it a lot.
Michonne was awsome, felt they hit her comic character well in this episode, more lines than the rest of the season put together too.
So Merle likes to read? Wadya know..
Good to see Andrea doing some badass stuff, well overdue. Looks like she's finally coming around, I hope.
The governor putting on the charm to Tyrese and his crew was cool, looked like they got the same speach Andrea and Michonne got when they arrived.
I don't mind Tyrese being in Woodbury now, unlike some, it's not the comic story and I'm glad because now I don't know what is going to happen next. I only hope they don't make Tyrese into a bad guy. But it gives a whole new perspective on Ricks freak out in the prison, to the casual observers who have seen both sides i.e. Tyrese and co. Rick seems a lot more unhinged and dangerous than the governor.
Looking forward to next weeks

[CreepMeOut]

It was a pretty good episode. Just like last week, I loved Carol and Hershel in this episode. Right now they seem to be the 2 most level headed people on the show. The only part I liked about Andrea's reunion with the group was her scenes with Carol, how happy they were to see each other and her plan on how to kill TG was classic but brilliant. Carol shines in her scenes and is my favorite character on the show. I'd be absolutely devastated if they kill her off.
My problem with last nights ep was, why did they allow Merle out of his cell after how long? 2mins? and now he's roaming around.. wtf! My other issue is how are they going to redeem Andrea now after she didnt follow through with the plan? I knew he wasnt going to get killed off this easily and so soon but there has been alot of inconsistencies with Andrea's character and is probably least liked by fans right now. Now that the door's been open to that one time she had the chance to kill him, may cause alot of problems. What if TG decides to attack again with this time a member of the group getting killed off? In that case I dont think fans will ever forgive her leaving no chance for redemption.
Maybe they should have had TG wake up before she was about to do it... she was standing on the side he couldn't see out of so I'm sure she would have enough time to hide the knife. Then it wouldn't look bad on her behalf.

[Reavesfilm]

Does anyone else think Rick will kill Merle like he killed Dexter in the comic books?

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/NknlU.jpg

I'd be totally okay with that. Just saying. And I agree that I think Tyreese won't be with TG for long, but I don't really see him going back to the prison after how Rick scared them. I'm thinking TG might still use Tyreese as a pawn like he did in the comic, thinking he's a spy for Rick and Co.

[twd85]

I just hope Tyreese's fate will be different from his comic counterpart. Otherwise, we'll be saying adios to Ty before the season's over.

[backwoodsroamer]

My thoughts on the Woodbury scenes are mixed. On one hand I'm thinking waste of time let's get back to the prison. On the other hand I'm thinking the writers might be trying to show us something about the Governor's methods and character.

When I watch the scene where Martinez has all his draftees lined up, particularly Noah the Asthmatic B B Gun Marksman,



I was reminded of this, which is a still from the last known film of Adolph Hitler taken just days before his death. He is awarding the Iron Cross to members of the Volkssturm and Hitler Youth (old men and kids) who are fighting Soviet tanks and troops in the streets of Berlin.



I'm probably giving the writers too much credit here, considering that no one cares about history anymore, but to me it was an interesting parallel when the Governor walked down the line reviewing his "troops."

Hitler seduced a nation and led it to ruin. The Governor seems to have an easier task. He only has to bend seventy odd people to his will. I think they are still on a path to ruin though.

So while I find the parts that give an insight into the method to TG's madness interesting, the rest of the Woodbury scenes leave me cold. It seems a hop skotch approach to me. They couldn't develop Oscar and Axel at the prison, but we get Karen, Noah, and Mrs. Mcleod ( arthritis lady) at Woodbury. What's that all about?

[Stan]

Kind of a choppy episode for me. To break it down:

Likes: Andrea is getting some good character development. She's very confused about a lot of things, and I think it became clear to her that if Woodbury and the Gov aren't what she thought, then neither is Rick's group anymore. She knows the Gov ain't good, but she DOES want the dream of Woodbury to be real, and probably thinks it could come true. She supports Rick but is confused about what that group has changed to since she last saw them. It was good to see her reaction to Shane being killed and trying to come to terms with it. Her strength and vunerability in the naked knife scene was supposed to be stronger than it was to me, but I saw the direction they were aiming for. She really wants to make everyone happy in this war. too bad.

GREAT to see Rick not trust her in the least when she arrived.

Michonne: ABOUT TIME she does more than glare and make tough sounding one liners.

Rick: Still nice to see he can organize and speak for the group, if not command them. Glenn was the only unquestioned supporter.

Tyrese' group was neat to see integrate into Woodbury. It works and makes sense, the groups first encounter with the prison was guarded, cold, untrusting and Rick all but went crazy on them. Woodbury might set off some alarms, but it's exactly what they were hoping for in the prison.

Merle's development. Nice to see a merc personality can be educated but still a racist, sexist bigot. Untrustworthy but a good hired gun, he knows he has no home to go to and will do his best to hang in there until another opportunity presents itself.

Carol is projecting so much, if she survives the season she'll really be a great character.

The Not-So-Goods

Fake Walker was like Pharmacy Walker last season.

Not big on the walk with a crippled walker in front of you and you'll be more or less ignored. It doesn't work so much like Michonne's did (and the explanation), or as suspension of disbelivingly as covering yourself with walker goo by accident or intent to travel through them.

Gov is off hinge, he might be a fun guy in a disarmingly cunning kind of way, but right now it's confusing to watch and disjointed to a viewer.

Not enough Maggie.

[mr teaspoon]

The way the writers utterly and completely gloss over Merle suddenly being allowed in the prison is absolute horse shit. I swear to god, there is no consistency with this show. Dude has been a villain for 2 seasons now and basically all we get is Glenn getting slightly bitchy for a moment.

F that.

[theblackboxlies]

Okay episode, probably my least favorite of the season. I wonder if Merle is just biding his time for something by being so "nice" and letting bygones be bygones with Michonne, Glenn & Maggie.

Highlights of the episode for me were Michonne calling Andrea out, Carol suggesting Andrea give the Gov the night of his life then take him out.

Bummer part: Tyreese and his gang siding with the Gov. I have a feeling like in the comics Tyreese won't be making it past the Woodbury/Prison conflict and will die in a final assault. I was hoping they had bigger plans for him, you know extend his life a little like they did with Shane. Who knows though. Seemed like mostly a filler episode, though at the same time it was nice to have a bit of a breather since the previous 10 episodes have been pretty much non stop action, gore and violence.

[CrackFox]

I can't believe people are trying to defend Andrea. It doesn't matter if you're a killer or not. You're not living in the same world you were before. He tried to kill Darryl, Merle, Michonne, Glenn, and Maggie, and she still goes back to the prison? And ends up not killing The Governor?

What Michonne said about her was spot on. Andrea has been terribly written throughout the whole show.

Again it's the lack of information Andrea has been given. As far as she knows, Glenn and Maggie were tortured by Merle and the Gov had nothing to do with it. He just wanted to hold them there for information. The Maggie thing wasn't mentioned to her at all and the Daryl/Merle thing is kind of justified, they had just hijacked his town. As far as Michonne's confession that the Gov sent someone to kill her after she left, I don't know. I'm not sure Andrea believes Michonne. I don't blame her, she comes across as, petty, jealous and full of bs.

Also, I think people are looking into the Sasha/Gov thing too much. He didn't seem to be checking her out, so to speak. I just got the impression he could sense a slight bit of apprehension from her so he was wary. Last time he let a moody woman in his town, he lost an eye.

[DeadInDetroit]

I wouldn't say so, Merle almost killed Glenn and Michonne and stood back as the Governor was going to rape Maggie, he also nearly killed them all in Atlanta. I would say that the plan wouldn't have worked. All the Governor needed Merle for was to rile up the people of Woodbury and prove that one of the attackers (Daryl) was related to Merle. He isn't really needed and the Governor doesn't want to kill him because he knows it was made up, only that Merle lied about killing Michonne.

TG doesnt want to kill Merle?? HELL YEA he does!! If it wasnt for Merle NOT completing his job (killin Michonne) an lying about not finishing his job, TG more than likely would NOT have lost Penny an his eye!!

If Merle killed her, she couldnt have killed Penny an stabbed his eye an if Merle told the truth, maybe TG couldve sent more ppl to find her or maybe he wouldve been on his toes knowin she could show back up!


Absolutely TG wants Merle dead!!

[DeadInDetroit]

What do yall think of this theory....?....

Tyreese & Co help TG with the prison layouts, etc. TG finds no more use for them an kills Sasha (or Allen or Ben) an Tyreese somehow gets away! BOOM! There we have Tyreese going back to the prison AND wanting to be apart of killing TG an his men!! Think about it, if TG or his men killed Sasha, Tyreese would go on a RAMPAGE to avenge his sisters death....


Just a thought i had while trying to figure out how the whole Ty at woodbury thing could play out

[the Walkin Dude]

The way the writers utterly and completely gloss over Merle suddenly being allowed in the prison is absolute horse shit. I swear to god, there is no consistency with this show. Dude has been a villain for 2 seasons now and basically all we get is Glenn getting slightly bitchy for a moment.

F that.

This is an easy one if you are so upset and complain all the time you can always quit watching. You remind me of another Mr. Teaspoon who use to post here in the first season. JMHO

[the Walkin Dude]

@ BWR, sir you are quite the philosopher. I always enjoy your analysis of the shows. Cheers.

[Reavesfilm]

What do yall think of this theory....?....

Tyreese & Co help TG with the prison layouts, etc. TG finds no more use for them an kills Sasha (or Allen or Ben) an Tyreese somehow gets away! BOOM! There we have Tyreese going back to the prison AND wanting to be apart of killing TG an his men!! Think about it, if TG or his men killed Sasha, Tyreese would go on a RAMPAGE to avenge his sisters death....


Just a thought i had while trying to figure out how the whole Ty at woodbury thing could play out

I could see that for sure! Good theory! Tyreese would run back to the prison because he has nowhere else to go, he could come bearing the warning that the attack is coming and he wants to help! I like it

[Deadpelican]

My thoughts on the Woodbury scenes are mixed. On one hand I'm thinking waste of time let's get back to the prison. On the other hand I'm thinking the writers might be trying to show us something about the Governor's methods and character.

When I watch the scene where Martinez has all his draftees lined up, particularly Noah the Asthmatic B B Gun Marksman,



I was reminded of this, which is a still from the last known film of Adolph Hitler taken just days before his death. He is awarding the Iron Cross to members of the Volkssturm and Hitler Youth (old men and kids) who are fighting Soviet tanks and troops in the streets of Berlin.



I'm probably giving the writers too much credit here, considering that no one cares about history anymore, but to me it was an interesting parallel when the Governor walked down the line reviewing his "troops."

Hitler seduced a nation and led it to ruin. The Governor seems to have an easier task. He only has to bend seventy odd people to his will. I think they are still on a path to ruin though.

So while I find the parts that give an insight into the method to TG's madness interesting, the rest of the Woodbury scenes leave me cold. It seems a hop skotch approach to me. They couldn't develop Oscar and Axel at the prison, but we get Karen, Noah, and Mrs. Mcleod ( arthritis lady) at Woodbury. What's that all about?

I was (more or less) thinking the same thing and noted it in an earlier thread. The whole thing with Noah was intended to illustrate a point, which is that the governor's rule is becoming increasingly oppressive. He's willing to risk the lives of kids with health problems, and for no good reason.

[BenRai2k]

The way the writers utterly and completely gloss over Merle suddenly being allowed in the prison is absolute horse shit. I swear to god, there is no consistency with this show. Dude has been a villain for 2 seasons now and basically all we get is Glenn getting slightly bitchy for a moment.

F that.

He was a jerk in season 1 for 1 episode - not really a bad guy as such. In season 3 he has been kinda bad for sure, and Glenn and Maggie nor Michonne are happy about it. But he did co-save Rick last episode (even if for Daryl's sake), even before he went to hunt down Michonne/kidnapped Glenn (desperation to find his brother),Merle showed signs of not being all that bad. To be honest Glenn/Maggie/Michonne would be stupid to cause more conflict in prison by making a huge show of their grudge especially if they stand the chance of losing Daryl. They need everyone they can get knowing the war whole groups as risk.

Maggie wanted him in another cell away from them, Glenn has had issue with Merle since suicide king and so has Michonne.To be honest I'd be bored hearing Maggie/Glenn/Michonne making more drama out of Merle at this point, he is the least of their problems. I can't bare to hear Glenn whinge anymore over Merle when there is a much bigger threat.

[Major Tom]

Not sure how they will fix the Tyreese thing. I imagine Gov will show them his true colors and Andrea will give them the straight story. The two red shirts are of no consequence and I am not sure about Tyreese's wife, she may not survive.

Mazarra has screwed up the story line imo and it will take some skillful work to fix it. Already looking forward to S4 to see where Gimple will take us.

[BenRai2k]

It is Tyreese's sister. Not his daughter or wife! Lol.

I am not sure I like Tyreese and co being in Woodbury neither to be honest.

[Major Tom]

If he does, I think the two brothers will end up killing themselves (after some serious damage caused by Merle)...

The idea of one or both of the Dixon brothers being killed by the other makes sense but Reedus and Rooker are such good character actors, I would be fighting tooth and nail to keep them if I am the producer. If you are writing a comic or a novel, killing off characters is no big deal. You just use your writing talent to create a new character. Rooker and Reedus are not easily replaceable. It hurt losing Jon and Jeffery, losing one or both of the Dixons will hurt just as much if not more.

I know that actors have contracts and future plans that affect their longevity with any particular show but for this show, the pool is only so deep and it gets hard to keep coming up with winners.

I hope they both stay for at least another season. There are plenty to kill off that won't be as sorely missed.

[mr teaspoon]

This is an easy one if you are so upset and complain all the time you can always quit watching. You remind me of another Mr. Teaspoon who use to post here in the first season. JMHO

Please tell me you're joking.