The Walking Dead Season 3 Ep 11 - I Ain’T A Judas - Review

rick the governor daryl merle andrea the prison woodbury the walking dead season 3

The Walking Dead Season 3 Ep 11 "I Ain't a Judas" (204 )

What did you think of the show?

  1. Excellent (68 [33.33%] - )

    33.33%

  2. Good - Some Critiques (87 [42.65%] - )

    42.65%

  3. Fair - Not What I Expected (41 [20.10%] - )

    20.10%

  4. Poor (8 [3.92%] - )

    3.92%

#351
mr teaspoon

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- I love the people saying "Oh, Merle's a bad guy so it doesn't make sense him being with the group". I'd like to see thee people reviewing WWII. "Stalin's a bad guy and Hitler's a bad guy too but the Allies are good guys so how can Stalin and Roosevelt and Churchill work together? It's just not right."


OK a) it's more like letting Joseph Stalin sleep in the guest room, and he has tried to kill 3 members of your family already

and

b ) if the group is putting up with Merle for the reasons you say, why don't we actually see them struggle and come to this decision? I mean, you're here making the argument on a message board, but when do we see the characters grappling with it? Almost not at all.
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#352
BenRai2k

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He has only been at the prison permanent since end of 10, and we saw arguing from Glenn and obvious annoyance and anger from Michonne.Maggie wanted him moving to a new cell too. Episode 9 the arguments about him being bought back involved Daryl and Merle having to leave. There has been issue with it, there probably still will be too.
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#353
Judari

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I agree? But other than some dickish Altanta behaviour, Glenn had no real reason to not at least take him to a prison and lock him up and let Daryl decide what to do. They could have concluded it best them 2 go it alone and leave like they did if the rest felt unsafe.


Hmm, I think a case could be made for why Merle isn't trust worthy based on his ATL shinanagins. Although I think its more of Glenn didn't want to take Merle to Daryl because he didn't want Merle to rejoin the group. If I recall Glenn told Merle to wait there while he Maggie got Daryl but now I wonder if that wasn't just a lie and he had no intentions of doing so? At least we know Merle did not trust Glenn to bring Daryl back.

I do agree with you in hindsight it would have been better to just take Merle to the prison but also Glenn had no way of knowing that Merle would know where the prison was already and the mess they would get into at Woodbury with the Gov. But then again Merle had them under gun point, he could have just as easily forced them then to take him to where his brother was by threatening Maggie. I saw Merle taking them back to Woodbury as a plot device to get conflict started, however it makes sense enough so I don't nitpick it too much.
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#354
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Rick said Andrea is in quite a jam/mess, yeah.

It was nice to see Andrea at the prison...with the group...but this whole group being seperated thing has gone on for too long now. It is longer than Sophia missing. TV shows always seem to have a series or some kind of stroryline were a character is seperated from the rest of their group for awhile and these sort of plots alwaus bug me. (Kate/Sawyer/Jack in Lost when the Others took them for multile episodes).

My problem is Andrea seems so irrelevant to the show now. In season 1/2 Andrea seemed just as important to the show as Rick/Daryl - now she has been away from our group so long and been thru no experiences on screen (being ill and arriving at Woodbury and just talking to the Gov doesn't really count as much) she just feels so disconnected from the show now.

Is it worth segregating Andrea from her group for a whole season for her to "turn" at the end of it and "do the right thing" and side with her old group? I'd just rather a episode based around her Woodbury escape around episode 8/9, and then shes with the group for the rest of the season during the trials and attacks to come.

Also agreed with conversations. "he lied, he shot first". The end?? "Wheres Shane?" "....................." Season 3 people really do not talk or communicate. Even when Carol said Tdog died getting her to safety no follow up questions from Andrea - safety? What happened? Was it at the prison? On the road during winter? Then we had "What happened to Lori?" "C section...Maggie...Carl had to...."


I agree with you. Either no ones asking and answering questions, which is so out of the normal or the writers think TWD fans should deduce that a lot more was said off screen. This is also not the first time it has happened. I doubt it will be the last.
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#355
SteadyEddie

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There's not enough time in a 40-minute episode to pack in all the dialogue you guys are demanding. Then if they gave it to you, there'd be complaints of it dragging on.
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#356
That Guy

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There's not enough time in a 40-minute episode to pack in all the dialogue you guys are demanding. Then if they gave it to you, there'd be complaints of it dragging on.


Season 1 had the time for it. Season 2 as well. So why would we give season 3 a pass?

Most dialogue scenes get cut off abruptly. Like I mentioned before with the 'get back here!' scene. It just leaves me to assume that Rick walked out on a crucial moment, which doesn't make me like him. It's so out of character, too. Rick would never walk out on a discussion, even if it was his ass on the line.

Hershel faces the man who kidnapped his daughter and son-in-law, beat one and had the other near raped, and there's not a single mention of either? I know Hershel believes in the bible but come on, no one is that forgiving. No one. He could at least have said something about it, maybe "I forgive you because I am a man of faith, but look the wrong way at my girls and I will not hesitate to kill you". One line with major character development.

There's no closure to any conversation the way it is now. Carol and Daryl laugh awkwardly, cut to something else. Merle and Hershel have a huge character defining conversation, cut to something else. Just let people be people and have them talk.
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#357
Deadpelican

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Season 1 had the time for it. Season 2 as well. So why would we give season 3 a pass?



I don't see where season three is getting a pass, and I really don't see how season three is lacking in dialogue. The most recent episodes have been slower paced, but the dialogue has served a purpose in moving the story forward.

There was good dialogue in seasons one and two, but it did feel repetitive at times.

Shane thinks we should do X- Rick thinks we should do Y.

An awful lot of the dialog was along those lines in seasons one and two.

It started to feel like they were having the same argument over a series of 19 episodes/ two seasons.

There were times when it seemed to serve a purpose and others when it just seemed like filler.

It wasn't terrible by any means, but it wasn't vastly superior to what we're seeing now either.

And what I love about season three is that there are constant reminders of the ZA. I don't expect non-stop zombie killing but even when they aren't fighting walkers, they tend to be lurking in the background somewhere.
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#358
BenRai2k

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There's not enough time in a 40-minute episode to pack in all the dialogue you guys are demanding. Then if they gave it to you, there'd be complaints of it dragging on.


So a few moments of silence "where is shane?" (which is then repeated by Andrea again a few scenes later to Carol alone) is better time well used? She asked about Lori too - silence for a bit, "she had a girl, didnt survive", and then she asked again later to Carol. "Csection...Maggie, Carl had to". One scene where someone says "we got attacked by walkers, seperated. Emergency Csec was done by Maggie but we lost Lori. Poor Carl had to put her down". as opposed to 2 scenes with fragmented responses. That isn't a lot of dialogue and would have been more productive.

If it was a one off would be okay, not every convrsation needs to be fully blown.But too many conversations just feel fragmented or not even finished/responded to this season. Comes across very cold.

Then we had Andrea "Wha did you say to them?" , Michonne "Nothing". Next scene, Andrea "You've poisoned them", "I just told them the truth" or something to that effect. I thought she told them nothinng a second ago?

I am relieved though they have chosen not to go overboard with the Merle/Michonne/Glenn discussions. If it was season 2 we'd probably have whole episode based on that issue. It'd feel like the Shane/Lori/Rick thing again going back and forth. But I'd like other conversations to be less skimmed/fragmented feeling. One scene I recall was the discussion who is going to Woodbury and Axle and Beth volunteered an next scene they were left behind. I know Rick probably told Beth it is better she stay behind, and maybe so to Axle. But it isn't the point, I am watching a show and wanting to see characters interact. Still love the show though.
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#359
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OK a) it's more like letting Joseph Stalin sleep in the guest room, and he has tried to kill 3 members of your family already

and

b ) if the group is putting up with Merle for the reasons you say, why don't we actually see them struggle and come to this decision? I mean, you're here making the argument on a message board, but when do we see the characters grappling with it? Almost not at all.


Oh, I agree there. Just more not-particularly-good writing.

Especially Hersh. "Glenn, you're like a son to me. And Merle, you're the guy who tried to have my son eaten by a Walker, not to mention putting my daughter in danger of being raped and killed. Let's share a totally irrelevant Bible passage."
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#360
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I don't see where season three is getting a pass, and I really don't see how season three is lacking in dialogue. The most recent episodes have been slower paced, but the dialogue has served a purpose in moving the story forward.

There was good dialogue in seasons one and two, but it did feel repetitive at times.

Shane thinks we should do X- Rick thinks we should do Y.

An awful lot of the dialog was along those lines in seasons one and two.

It started to feel like they were having the same argument over a series of 19 episodes/ two seasons.

There were times when it seemed to serve a purpose and others when it just seemed like filler.

It wasn't terrible by any means, but it wasn't vastly superior to what we're seeing now either.

And what I love about season three is that there are constant reminders of the ZA. I don't expect non-stop zombie killing but even when they aren't fighting walkers, they tend to be lurking in the background somewhere.


Repetitve at times, sure, but at least they talked. When Rick asked Shane something, he didn't respond with a 10 second silence before and in between words. Like when Lori goes looking for Rick and Rick asks what happened, Shane didn't say "....Lori.....look for you.... Got her back...."

The pauses are supposed to add drama (I think), but utterly fail at that aspect. All I see are adults who aren't able to string together coherent sentences. True, use it every now and then and it can add to the drama, as in they don't really know how to bring the bad news. But use it too often and it gets real old, real fast.




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#361
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So they're supposed to go into a full discussion of what happened to Shane and Lori while Rick and Carl were standing there?

"See, Rick over there was afraid that Shane wanted to kill him because Shane wanted to start banging Lori again- isn't that right, Rick?- and then when Lori had her baby she died and started to turn and then Carl put her down- I forget Carl, did you shoot your Mom in the head or bash her brains out?"

Put it down to post-ZA etiquette, if you will. When you ask about somebody, and all you get is a little shake of the head, you can assume they died a horrible gruesome death and people might notwant to chat about the gory details.

OTOH, Michonne?- yeah, her inability to be even a little bit articulate is getting ridiculous.
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#362
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So they're supposed to go into a full discussion of what happened to Shane and Lori while Rick and Carl were standing there?

"See, Rick over there was afraid that Shane wanted to kill him because Shane wanted to start banging Lori again- isn't that right, Rick?- and then when Lori had her baby she died and started to turn and then Carl put her down- I forget Carl, did you shoot your Mom in the head or bash her brains out?"

Put it down to post-ZA etiquette, if you will. When you ask about somebody, and all you get is a little shake of the head, you can assume they died a horrible gruesome death and people might notwant to chat about the gory details.

OTOH, Michonne?- yeah, her inability to be even a little bit articulate is getting ridiculous.


I never said I wanted them to talk about the gory details. I want them to use grown up speech.

They actually explained that Shane tries to kill Rick so Rick killed him. Regarding Lori, all they had to say was 'she died in childbirth', if the details are too much for everyone to talk about at that moment.

I just want them to talk like real people do. Is that really too much to ask? Dialogue can be just as tense, if not more, as a good action scene.
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#363
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If the writers are so concerned with explanations taking up valuable attack time, there's a solution. Carol could have answered Andrea's question by saying, "I'll tell you everything. Let's sit down." Then, cut to the next scene. At least, we're given an indication that she's getting details. Michonne: "TG sent Merle to kill me. I saw him take Glenn and Maggie. Then...." Cut away. It could be very short and still denote further speech.

I've come to the conclusion that the most pertinent dialogue happens off-camera. I just wish they'd make it obvious that dialogue is actually happening. I know it's been a plot device to withhold vital information, but come on.... gimme a break. Does ANYone believe that all these people are so tight-lipped?
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#364
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The apocalypse is making civilized people become uncivilized..maybe it is actually turning back the clock and they will all eventually be cave men again. Season 5: dialog has been replaced by grunts! :lol:
I'm torn between the two opinions here..there have been times where I think the lack of communication is faintly ridiculous. Other times I have no problems with how they shot a scene, a lot can be said without words. :srug:
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#365
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There should be a happy medium. That Guy is right, a few lines of dialogue go a long way.
One prime example of that would be the scene where Daryl and Maggie go for baby formula. That scene ended up feeling like a pointless filler scene. We found out later that they cut out Daryl talking about Carol. Why would they edit that out? Carol had been missing/presumed dead and Daryl had barely mentioned her.
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#366
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Oh, I agree there. Just more not-particularly-good writing.

Especially Hersh. "Glenn, you're like a son to me. And Merle, you're the guy who tried to have my son eaten by a Walker, not to mention putting my daughter in danger of being raped and killed. Let's share a totally irrelevant Bible passage."


I felt like Hershel talking to Merle at first was a bit cheesy however I thought the sharing of the Bible passage totally saved it because it was very relevant to Merle. "If your right hand offends you cut it off..." Merle doesn't have one of his hands. The passage relates to overcoming sin and bad habits/traits, of course body parts can't sin on there own but the idea is overcoming the loss of a body part can be comparable to overcoming sin/immorality. In the past few episodes Daryl has been having faith that Merle can change and isn't the person everyone thinks he is. Hershel was just running with that idea and probably letting Merle know that Daryl is right he can change however hard it may be. I don't think Hershel likes the idea of Merle around either but he knows he is a necessary evil at the moment so he might as well do what he can to make the best of it.

I thought it was the most insightful the show has been in a while to be honest, it could have been done better but I give props where its due lol.
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#367
SteadyEddie

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Season 2 was the most criticized with people pissing and moaning about the slow pace.
Mazzara apparently reads these forums.
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#368
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I don't know if you get much more awesome than coolly dispatching walkers with a hammer. As an avid Thor fan, I may be entirely biased; a fact I am very willing to accept. :)

I think regarding the department store tool Tyreese is using and mjolnir as both hammers is like regarding a pet cat to a lion in that they are both in the same family, but the gulf in awesomeness is there for all to see. Btw thanks for the image of Thor dispatching droves of walkers with a proper hammer. ;)
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#369
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I think the shovel is getting a bit short-changed. A good, penetrating shove just under the chin with the edge and the head is easily separated from the neck. The long handle allows for killing at a distance. Swing it and you push the walkers back to a safer distance. Grip it in both hands in front of you and it's good for defense. Use the flat side to bash.

It's not as good for killing walkers as a piece of sharpened rebar duct-taped to a broom handle, but it is effective. Just keep the edges of the shovel nice and sharp.
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#370
Steph

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    So who talks first? You talk first? I talk first?

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Ahhh the shovel. Brings back nostalgic memories of Rick bashing that walker's face in when he was escaping from the tank.
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#371
AndySnow

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I think the shovel is getting a bit short-changed. A good, penetrating shove just under the chin with the edge and the head is easily separated from the neck. The long handle allows for killing at a distance. Swing it and you push the walkers back to a safer distance. Grip it in both hands in front of you and it's good for defense. Use the flat side to bash.

It's not as good for killing walkers as a piece of sharpened rebar duct-taped to a broom handle, but it is effective. Just keep the edges of the shovel nice and sharp.

But as tyrion lannister tells us, I struggle to see Sasha using whetstone in the dark of night to sharpen that old shovel. And having just been using a shovel to dig up dirt for an extention these past two days, it is absolutely knackering wielding that thing for its proper purpose as a fit young male, how Sasha does manages to use it well is beyond belief. Literally.
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#372
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But as tyrion lannister tells us, I struggle to see Sasha using whetstone in the dark of night to sharpen that old shovel. And having just been using a shovel to dig up dirt for an extention these past two days, it is absolutely knackering wielding that thing for its proper purpose as a fit young male, how Sasha does manages to use it well is beyond belief. Literally.


I still respectfully disagree. It doesn't have to be sharp to be effective. It's a thin, metal edge. If you put force and pressure behind it, you can kill with it fairly easily. Here. Stand still and I'll show you.... ;)

Welcome to the forums, by the way. :)
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"My mind is my weapon ... and a mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

#373
Steph

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    So who talks first? You talk first? I talk first?

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And she would be using it as a blunt object, not shoveling the walker's face off lol

But yes, any extended period of time shoveling is back breaking, I agree.
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#374
Deadpelican

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The apocalypse is making civilized people become uncivilized..maybe it is actually turning back the clock and they will all eventually be cave men again. Season 5: dialog has been replaced by grunts! :lol:


Actually this is what I've been thinking. The human race is retrogressing. Things in general have become more savage and primitive even to the point where it now effects the way in which people interact/ communicate with each other.

I don't think they'll ever be reduced to grunts and noises but communication has become less sophisticated because again, things have become more primitive.
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#375
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I felt like Hershel talking to Merle at first was a bit cheesy however I thought the sharing of the Bible passage totally saved it because it was very relevant to Merle. "If your right hand offends you cut it off..." Merle doesn't have one of his hands. The passage relates to overcoming sin and bad habits/traits, of course body parts can't sin on there own but the idea is overcoming the loss of a body part can be comparable to overcoming sin/immorality. In the past few episodes Daryl has been having faith that Merle can change and isn't the person everyone thinks he is. Hershel was just running with that idea and probably letting Merle know that Daryl is right he can change however hard it may be. I don't think Hershel likes the idea of Merle around either but he knows he is a necessary evil at the moment so he might as well do what he can to make the best of it.

I thought it was the most insightful the show has been in a while to be honest, it could have been done better but I give props where its due lol.


I may just not have fully understood your explanation, so I apologize if this is exactly what you meant...

The passage actually refers to it being preferable to cut off a limb or pluck out your own eye to save your soul, than to keep that limb and be cast into the hell forever. It illustrates the extreme seriousness of sin and the lengths that a person should go to to remove the temptation. It is still relevant to Merle though, my opinion was that Hershel was warning Merle what will happen if he doesn't change/quit being immoral. Even if you aren't a believer, you can look at it on a purely earthly basis - Merle will be "cast into hell" if he doesn't change his ways; that is, he'll be cast out of the prison, he'll be on his own in the hell that is outside protection. That is my interpretation, anyway.

Deadpelican -I was only joking. ;)
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