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Did Lori Tell Rick To Kill Shane?

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#1
Mamaof3Littles

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I know she did not "explicitly" say "you need to kill shane". But my friend is almost done with Season 2, and loves Lori, hates Shane and doesn't understand why no one likes her. She doesn't believe me that when Lori was whispering in Rick's ear, she was as much as telling him he needed to kill Shane to protect his family. Am I crazy? Can someone post the quote here to back me up? How did you interpret Lori's motives?
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#2
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I don't know what she whispered but IMO, Lori may as well have killed Shane herself. She was correct to warn Rick that Shane was dangerous but I do think she pushed Shane over the edge with her "I don't know if this baby is yours or Rick's" speech. He was probably already over the edge but still, way to step it up, ho bag. No, you're not crazy. Rick was blinded by his pre ZA relationship w/ Shane and needed a wake up call, which Lori's urging and Shane's behavior provided.
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#3
Steph

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She didn't come right out and say to Rick "You need to kill Shane." How it went was they were talking about Shane and Lori said something along the lines of "You killed the living to protect what's yours?" Rick said yes and she whispers "Shane thinks I'm his." aka KILL HIM RICK!

Then when he does have to kill Shane in self defense, she acts like Rick spent weeks planning to murder Shane. She batted Rick's hand away and gave him a scathing look, not "I'm so sorry you had to do this, are you okay?" Granted, Rick could have explained it a bit better to her, but still. She was a Grade A Bitchbag.
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#4
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I'm not a Lori hater, but I'm not a Lori fan, either. I didn't see most of her moves as intentionally malicious or manipulative as they were misguided or flat out naive. I think a good share of the drama and madness could have been avoided if she had pulled them together for a powwow and spoke to them together rather than hopping back and forth between one and the other.

As far as what she whispered in that ep... I didn't see it so much as, "GO KILL SHANE!" To me, it came off more as: "If it comes to it, you might have to kill him." I think was worried that Rick wouldn't get past his mostly-passive stance toward Shane if things turned particularly nasty.

That said - I was as furious as everyone else when she reacted to the news of Shane's death. Afterwards, I sometimes wondered if part of that recoil was a knee-jerk reaction to her own guilt. Maybe Lori was horrified at what she had helped to bring about - knocking Rick away could have been like someone throwing a gun aside after realizing they just killed someone.
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#5
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I'm not a Lori hater, but I'm not a Lori fan, either. I didn't see most of her moves as intentionally malicious or manipulative as they were misguided or flat out naive. I think a good share of the drama and madness could have been avoided if she had pulled them together for a powwow and spoke to them together rather than hopping back and forth between one and the other.

As far as what she whispered in that ep... I didn't see it so much as, "GO KILL SHANE!" To me, it came off more as: "If it comes to it, you might have to kill him." I think was worried that Rick wouldn't get past his mostly-passive stance toward Shane if things turned particularly nasty.

That said - I was as furious as everyone else when she reacted to the news of Shane's death. Afterwards, I sometimes wondered if part of that recoil was a knee-jerk reaction to her own guilt. Maybe Lori was horrified at what she had helped to bring about - knocking Rick away could have been like someone throwing a gun aside after realizing they just killed someone.


Very well said. I saw it the same way. It wasn't malicious. She saw that Shane was becoming dangerous and she was trying to warn Rick that it may come down to him or Shane.
There were a few threads (ha!) on this subject. I'll see if I can find a few.
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#6
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Thanks guys!
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I know she did not "explicitly" say "you need to kill shane". But my friend is almost done with Season 2, and loves Lori, hates Shane and doesn't understand why no one likes her. She doesn't believe me that when Lori was whispering in Rick's ear, she was as much as telling him he needed to kill Shane to protect his family. Am I crazy? Can someone post the quote here to back me up? How did you interpret Lori's motives?



That's the way I always viewed it. She basically told him to do it and then gets all disturbed after Shane trys to kill him. Up until then I just viewed Lori as annoying but when that scene happened I no longer liked Lori in the least.
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#8
Nareen

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I don't think that Lori was trying to get Rick to kill Shane, she was trying to get him to realize that his good friend had become unstable and dangerous, to put him on his guard. They were in a tent so of course she whispered. Rick heard her but still didn't take the next opportunity to kill Shane or leave him to die; he didn't act until Shane tried to kill him.

IMO that last conversation with Shane was Lori's attempt to clear the air between them, get back to being the old friends they had been before the ZA and mend the broken group. But Shane was too far gone into crazyland to understand and Lori didn't get that.

Though Lori had chosen Rick and her family over Shane, I think that when she learned of the latter's death and the manner of it, she realized that she had more feelings for Shane that she had admitted to herself and was overcome by feelings of guilt, shame, grief and horror. Maybe a few hours or days later she was able to process these events and get over that, but the damage was done.

As I've said before, Lori was just human and humans make mistakes.
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#9
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I don't think that Lori was trying to get Rick to kill Shane, she was trying to get him to realize that his good friend had become unstable and dangerous, to put him on his guard. They were in a tent so of course she whispered. Rick heard her but still didn't take the next opportunity to kill Shane or leave him to die; he didn't act until Shane tried to kill him.

IMO that last conversation with Shane was Lori's attempt to clear the air between them, get back to being the old friends they had been before the ZA and mend the broken group. But Shane was too far gone into crazyland to understand and Lori didn't get that.

Though Lori had chosen Rick and her family over Shane, I think that when she learned of the latter's death and the manner of it, she realized that she had more feelings for Shane that she had admitted to herself and was overcome by feelings of guilt, shame, grief and horror. Maybe a few hours or days later she was able to process these events and get over that, but the damage was done.

As I've said before, Lori was just human and humans make mistakes.


I totally agree with your post. Sarah Wayne Callies explained that her reaction was self loathing, though. And I don't see it. I agree she looked daggers at Rick. I put some of it down to poor acting that they never compensated for. If I hadn't heard her explain Lori's reaction I wouldn't (and still don't) 'see' it.

As for hating Lori, I figure I can't hate her if her husband didn't. I figure he lived through what happened so if it makes sense to him, who am I to argue? Look around at other message boards where people endlessly debate the timeline so they can make the case that she slept with Shane within days of Rick's 'death'. I don't get the Lori hate.

(On a side note: being married for almost 25 years can have some great and terrible times. Mine hit a rough patch and suddenly my better half accused me of having cheated on him. I had a very brief fling with a mutual acquaintance before I even liked my husband let alone before our marriage. But as he already had feelings for me, he felt cheated on and, over time, convinced himself I'd done it after our marriage. Maybe that's why I'm forgiving of Lori. It really sucks to get hit with that huge pile of manure.)
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#10
theglassintheguvseye

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I totally agree with your post. Sarah Wayne Callies explained that her reaction was self loathing, though. And I don't see it. I agree she looked daggers at Rick. I put some of it down to poor acting that they never compensated for. If I hadn't heard her explain Lori's reaction I wouldn't (and still don't) 'see' it.

As for hating Lori, I figure I can't hate her if her husband didn't. I figure he lived through what happened so if it makes sense to him, who am I to argue? Look around at other message boards where people endlessly debate the timeline so they can make the case that she slept with Shane within days of Rick's 'death'. I don't get the Lori hate.

(On a side note: being married for almost 25 years can have some great and terrible times. Mine hit a rough patch and suddenly my better half accused me of having cheated on him. I had a very brief fling with a mutual acquaintance before I even liked my husband let alone before our marriage. But as he already had feelings for me, he felt cheated on and, over time, convinced himself I'd done it after our marriage. Maybe that's why I'm forgiving of Lori. It really sucks to get hit with that huge pile of manure.)


I never saw that interview. Self loathing can exhibit itself in many ways and I feel more kindly towards Lori now so thanks. Sorry to hear of the reason you relate to that particular situation. Marriage is a full time job, isn't it? And fraught with insecurities, particularly at first. Glad to hear you both came out on the good side of it!
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#11
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I totally agree with your post. Sarah Wayne Callies explained that her reaction was self loathing, though. And I don't see it. I agree she looked daggers at Rick. I put some of it down to poor acting that they never compensated for. If I hadn't heard her explain Lori's reaction I wouldn't (and still don't) 'see' it.

As for hating Lori, I figure I can't hate her if her husband didn't. I figure he lived through what happened so if it makes sense to him, who am I to argue? Look around at other message boards where people endlessly debate the timeline so they can make the case that she slept with Shane within days of Rick's 'death'. I don't get the Lori hate.

(On a side note: being married for almost 25 years can have some great and terrible times. Mine hit a rough patch and suddenly my better half accused me of having cheated on him. I had a very brief fling with a mutual acquaintance before I even liked my husband let alone before our marriage. But as he already had feelings for me, he felt cheated on and, over time, convinced himself I'd done it after our marriage. Maybe that's why I'm forgiving of Lori. It really sucks to get hit with that huge pile of manure.)


I never understood the Lori hate either. I haven't been alive for 25 years so its great you can stay commited to someone for that long :)

A very similar thing happened regarding my parents and it wasn't nice to see.

Lori was never in the wrong. Maybe some of her actions that seemed manipulative. But as far as what people considered cheating and call her a whore and a slut I think is unfair
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#12
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I never saw that interview. Self loathing can exhibit itself in many ways and I feel more kindly towards Lori now so thanks. Sorry to hear of the reason you relate to that particular situation. Marriage is a full time job, isn't it? And fraught with insecurities, particularly at first. Glad to hear you both came out on the good side of it!


I just wish we didn't have to rely on an interview for that insight; hence the bad acting reference. With so many complications coming between them I couldn't just have one feeling about their lives. I finally decided that I'd side with Rick's PoV since he's the innocent one in the matter.

And thanks. Marriage is far too complicated to give up on easily. :)
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#13
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I never understood the Lori hate either. I haven't been alive for 25 years so its great you can stay commited to someone for that long :)

A very similar thing happened regarding my parents and it wasn't nice to see.

Lori was never in the wrong. Maybe some of her actions that seemed manipulative. But as far as what people considered cheating and call her a whore and a slut I think is unfair


I hated my parents' divorce so I never wanted to put my kids through it. Both my hubby and I have had long term careers and, even on our worst days when we didn't want to go in, didn't see the reason for doing what we were doing or just plain hating the boss we never considered quitting because we knew the feelings and circumstances wouldn't last. It's the same with marriage. I mean, isn't it another kind of career? Why can we give a J O B more commitment than our life partner? That's how I look at it.

And since I feel I'm in a safe place on this thread I just want to say that Rick & Lori are so tragic and beautiful in their love for each other. And brave. They are / were both brave.
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#14
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I hated my parents' divorce so I never wanted to put my kids through it. Both my hubby and I have had long term careers and, even on our worst days when we didn't want to go in, didn't see the reason for doing what we were doing or just plain hating the boss we never considered quitting because we knew the feelings and circumstances wouldn't last. It's the same with marriage. I mean, isn't it another kind of career? Why can we give a J O B more commitment than our life partner? That's how I look at it.

And since I feel I'm in a safe place on this thread I just want to say that Rick & Lori are so tragic and beautiful in their love for each other. And brave. They are / were both brave.


Your safe here. I seriously take knowledge from you. Its nice to hear advice for future things. And I agree Rick and Lori was a sad situation. I think Lori and carl were even more sad
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#15
Steph

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I never disliked Lori for all the reasons that most do. I never thought her a “whore” for sleeping with Shane. They were both traumatized and grieving, going through a hell we can’t imagine as the world as we know it died. Of course they’d seek each other out, trusted friends who had known each other for years.

What I really loathed about her was her coldness, towards both Rick and Carl. She was very manipulative, playing Rick and Shane off each other for her own selfish ego boost. I felt she was very bossy, liked to tell people what to do and I loved it when Andrea told her off (and Daryl).

I don’t blame Rick for one second for how he treated her either. We didn’t see much of them pre-ZA, but the few clips were tales of them fighting and her saying nasty and hurtful things to Rick in front of their son. She told her friend she didn’t think she loved him anymore...I’m sure Rick was aware of this. Her reaction when he told her about Shane (albeit he could have left out the “I wanted to kill him” part lol), was horrible. What he needed was a warm hug and an “It’ll be okay honey, I’m here, I’m glad you’re safe”. Not her slapping him away.

Then there’s the baby, which we all know is Shane’s (let’s not get into that in this thread please!). Of course Rick would be resentful. Who wouldn’t? They were headed for divorce before the ZA and I feel like it pretty much tore them apart in the end. Yes, he realized he still loved her after the fact, but a part of me wonders just how much. I mean, Rick is such a type A personality, a part of it could be his failure to “save” her and keep her safe.

Anyway, I know marriage is work. I’m married too and we’ve had our ups and downs for sure. Adding kids to the mix adds so much more work too, sometimes it’s just so difficult to dig deep and make life manageable.
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#16
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I never disliked Lori for all the reasons that most do. I never thought her a “whore” for sleeping with Shane. They were both traumatized and grieving, going through a hell we can’t imagine as the world as we know it died. Of course they’d seek each other out, trusted friends who had known each other for years.

What I really loathed about her was her coldness, towards both Rick and Carl. She was very manipulative, playing Rick and Shane off each other for her own selfish ego boost. I felt she was very bossy, liked to tell people what to do and I loved it when Andrea told her off (and Daryl).

I don’t blame Rick for one second for how he treated her either. We didn’t see much of them pre-ZA, but the few clips were tales of them fighting and her saying nasty and hurtful things to Rick in front of their son. She told her friend she didn’t think she loved him anymore...I’m sure Rick was aware of this. Her reaction when he told her about Shane (albeit he could have left out the “I wanted to kill him” part lol), was horrible. What he needed was a warm hug and an “It’ll be okay honey, I’m here, I’m glad you’re safe”. Not her slapping him away.

Then there’s the baby, which we all know is Shane’s (let’s not get into that in this thread please!). Of course Rick would be resentful. Who wouldn’t? They were headed for divorce before the ZA and I feel like it pretty much tore them apart in the end. Yes, he realized he still loved her after the fact, but a part of me wonders just how much. I mean, Rick is such a type A personality, a part of it could be his failure to “save” her and keep her safe.

Anyway, I know marriage is work. I’m married too and we’ve had our ups and downs for sure. Adding kids to the mix adds so much more work too, sometimes it’s just so difficult to dig deep and make life manageable.



Oh Steph that was so well thought out :P

I agree and if anything why isn't Shane blamed over Lori! He wanted her until he died in fact he died because he wanted her? But loris a whore ??? I don't know how she cut off relations with him when she knew Rick was alive.

And Rick treated her rightfully because she messed up things besides the Shane situation too

I'm of a young age , aka the age group that calls Lori a whore and I don't think she is so I don't see why anyone should call her one
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#17
Jayne23

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My take on Lori was that she wanted to have both There were times when she would push shane away and then
next moment she would be pulling him back in.
She always acted like she was better than any of the other gals and basically the queen of the ZA
She even made sure that shane was torn about whose baby it was.
I would not call her a whore but wouldn't want her as my mom
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#18
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What I really loathed about her was her coldness, towards both Rick and Carl. She was very manipulative, playing Rick and Shane off each other for her own selfish ego boost. I felt she was very bossy, liked to tell people what to do and I loved it when Andrea told her off (and Daryl).


I've never seen an example of her manipulation. She was almost as plain spoken as Rick. When she talked to Shane she was pretty damn clear on how he should leave her alone. He is the one who would use Carl and then her pregnancy to get what he wanted. When she asked him to stay it was after he'd come back with the equipment and without Otis and that would have been cold hearted of her if she hadn't.

I don’t blame Rick for one second for how he treated her either.


How did he treat her? By making sure she had enough to eat? Or being 100% focused on finding a safe place for her to have the baby? Or are you talking about how he kept himself apart? That was necessary for him to keep them all alive. He had to keep their emotional turmoil shut down so he could concentrate. He still went to her for advice with the inmates. He is the one who reached out to her when he put his hand on her shoulder. After so many months of him keeping a tight control over his emotions, maintaining a strict discipline of constant vigilance he couldn't just shut it off like a switch.

They were headed for divorce before the ZA and I feel like it pretty much tore them apart in the end. Yes, he realized he still loved her after the fact, but a part of me wonders just how much. I mean, Rick is such a type A personality, a part of it could be his failure to “save” her and keep her safe.


Or is he a one woman man? I know a lot of guys like Rick who've only wanted the one girl they married. Everything we've seen from him is consistent in his devotion. They never talked about her infidelity but she apologized to him that first night in the tent. He didn't catch on right then but he knew subconsciously. When he put it in the past, that's where it would stay, imo. But once again, it was Shane who couldn't let it go.

I wasn't born with Rick's innate ability to read people but I've made it my life's work. I know how my husband ticks, I know what works for me and I try really hard to play to our strengths. Kids are another matter. I don't get how parents live their lives for their kids at the expense of everything else. That's another way that Rick & Lori worked for me. They had a strong relationship which, if left to themselves, would have stayed strong. Kids grow up and grow away, spouses stay for life. No way my kids are going to get in the way of my husband's happiness. I get Lori like hate for that sentiment. :lol:
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#19
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I've never seen an example of her manipulation. She was almost as plain spoken as Rick. When she talked to Shane she was pretty damn clear on how he should leave her alone. He is the one who would use Carl and then her pregnancy to get what he wanted. When she asked him to stay it was after he'd come back with the equipment and without Otis and that would have been cold hearted of her if she hadn't.



How did he treat her? By making sure she had enough to eat? Or being 100% focused on finding a safe place for her to have the baby? Or are you talking about how he kept himself apart? That was necessary for him to keep them all alive. He had to keep their emotional turmoil shut down so he could concentrate. He still went to her for advice with the inmates. He is the one who reached out to her when he put his hand on her shoulder. After so many months of him keeping a tight control over his emotions, maintaining a strict discipline of constant vigilance he couldn't just shut it off like a switch.



Or is he a one woman man? I know a lot of guys like Rick who've only wanted the one girl they married. Everything we've seen from him is consistent in his devotion. They never talked about her infidelity but she apologized to him that first night in the tent. He didn't catch on right then but he knew subconsciously. When he put it in the past, that's where it would stay, imo. But once again, it was Shane who couldn't let it go.

I wasn't born with Rick's innate ability to read people but I've made it my life's work. I know how my husband ticks, I know what works for me and I try really hard to play to our strengths. Kids are another matter. I don't get how parents live their lives for their kids at the expense of everything else. That's another way that Rick & Lori worked for me. They had a strong relationship which, if left to themselves, would have stayed strong. Kids grow up and grow away, spouses stay for life. No way my kids are going to get in the way of my husband's happiness. I get Lori like hate for that sentiment. :lol:


No hate from me here, Things&Stuff! My mom always told us that my dad came first and us a close second. I find nothing wrong with that, and I think it keeps a marriage stronger than losing your identity as a husband/wife or man/woman to the sole identity of dad/mom. I myself have no kids, by choice, and one of the many things that factored into my decision is that I like my relationship and life with my husband the way it is.

On the Lori subject, I don't think she was a whore. She honestly thought her husband was dead, and grief can take many unexpected forms. I also know that being married to a cop is a VERY rough thing, so I don't necessarily blame her for the trouble they were having pre-ZA. I didn't start to really hate her until she decided to keep Judith. I understand her change of heart from wanting to let Carl slip away when he was shot to wanting him to live, but the baby really was beyond the pale for me. I found her to be very selfish, both in that area and in playing Rick and Shane against each other, while pretending to be the dutiful wife.

Edited by TangoJ, 29 March 2013 - 06:08 PM.

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#20
Jayne23

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Just watched season 2 again and oh yeah she played the little high school girl bs with shane and rick
She sat in the tent with rick and whispered in his ear all the things about shane wanting her and the baby.....then made sure to waltz out to shane and give him the work over with I don't even know whose baby this is bs and that that thing we had not sure what it was...love or what?
she set it all in motion over and over again.
Does anyone wonder if it would have been different if she would have kept her damn high school drama to herself.......
there is a reason she had more disagreements with basically everyone
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#21
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My take on Lori was that she wanted to have both There were times when she would push shane away and then
next moment she would be pulling him back in.


The thing that tore her up so much, when she was talking to Herschel in season 3, was that she put that knife in Rick's hand, she'd caused them to fall out. In season 2 I think she was trying to get Shane to let go of her and still be Rick's friend. The two times she encouraged Shane to stay was immediately after bringing the surgery supplies back and then after the Eighteen Miles Out episode where Rick was replacing Shane with Daryl.

What so impressed me about Lori was her willingness to take responsibility for her own actions. The first night Rick was back she apologized to him. He didn't ever ask her why she was apologizing. I think he'd subconsciously guessed and didn't want to deal with it. That's why in Secrets he said "I know. Of course I know." All of her conversations with Shane were either her setting the boundaries of their relationship now that Rick was back or reminding him of their collective relationship PreZA. She never once acted in a Come Hither way to Shane, she never pretended that there was any hope for him.

There was nothing high school in her behavior imo. In Season One she told Rick that she couldn't say that either Rick or Shane was correct in how their actions affected the Camp Massacre. That set up the 'drama', it was Rick who brought Lori into it in the first place. Later, in Season Two there was one time when it was Lori and Shane ganging up on Rick. Lori gave Shane an ugly look and he took off. If he had honestly felt any sympathetic alliance with Lori, it would have been in that scene but it didn't happen.

Rag on her all you like but issue for issue Lori had more on her plate than any other person than Rick. And, like Rick's leadership happens because everyone else takes a step back and leaves him hanging, none of the other females made a move to take leadership in all the areas the guys wouldn't even think of. That may be 'wrong' and un PC but in a ZA I doubt that there's going to be much worry about that. While Lori could hold her own against the walkers that wasn't where her main concern was. It was to make sure her husband and son (and unborn child) had what they needed to survive. Hers was a support role and she did it to the best of her ability.

What's the more important job, being the walker killer or being the one who stays behind and makes sure that there is something worth killing for? It's easier to like the one, but if Rick didn't have Lori and their family to fight for, would he ever have cared?
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#22
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The thing that tore her up so much, when she was talking to Herschel in season 3, was that she put that knife in Rick's hand, she'd caused them to fall out. In season 2 I think she was trying to get Shane to let go of her and still be Rick's friend. The two times she encouraged Shane to stay was immediately after bringing the surgery supplies back and then after the Eighteen Miles Out episode where Rick was replacing Shane with Daryl.

What so impressed me about Lori was her willingness to take responsibility for her own actions. The first night Rick was back she apologized to him. He didn't ever ask her why she was apologizing. I think he'd subconsciously guessed and didn't want to deal with it. That's why in Secrets he said "I know. Of course I know." All of her conversations with Shane were either her setting the boundaries of their relationship now that Rick was back or reminding him of their collective relationship PreZA. She never once acted in a Come Hither way to Shane, she never pretended that there was any hope for him.

There was nothing high school in her behavior imo. In Season One she told Rick that she couldn't say that either Rick or Shane was correct in how their actions affected the Camp Massacre. That set up the 'drama', it was Rick who brought Lori into it in the first place. Later, in Season Two there was one time when it was Lori and Shane ganging up on Rick. Lori gave Shane an ugly look and he took off. If he had honestly felt any sympathetic alliance with Lori, it would have been in that scene but it didn't happen.

Rag on her all you like but issue for issue Lori had more on her plate than any other person than Rick. And, like Rick's leadership happens because everyone else takes a step back and leaves him hanging, none of the other females made a move to take leadership in all the areas the guys wouldn't even think of. That may be 'wrong' and un PC but in a ZA I doubt that there's going to be much worry about that. While Lori could hold her own against the walkers that wasn't where her main concern was. It was to make sure her husband and son (and unborn child) had what they needed to survive. Hers was a support role and she did it to the best of her ability.

What's the more important job, being the walker killer or being the one who stays behind and makes sure that there is something worth killing for? It's easier to like the one, but if Rick didn't have Lori and their family to fight for, would he ever have cared?


Ive discussed my feelings on Lori many times. I'm not a Lori hater.

To give her further credit she killed quite a few zombies in season two. She wasn't out there on runs but she did protect the group all she could. And saved herself after her idiotic car crash. No one had to do it for her. I think she was trying her best to make things go back to the way they once were. On the finale she saved Beth and told Andrea to save Carol whose twig wouldn't have protected her too much.

What I didn't like about Lori was her acting like she was the queen of the group or the first lady to the president. Tried to boss around Andrea. And how she tries her hardest to shelter Carl but she always loses him. Also she tried to make Daryl go find Rick for her. Which is another example of her acting bossy. Thankfully Andrea and Daryl both told Lori off when she tried to boss them around. Sidenote I don't think what she did to Glenn and Maggie was being bossy. Glenn voulenteered.

Double sidenote. Maggie seems to have good faith (Beth and Herschel too) and she tossed the morning after pills and said something like here's your baby killing pills or something like that. And shes prayed in recent episodes. But she told the story in the episode where beth wanted to die that Beth had found her BIRTH CONTROL pills when she came home from college. Was she being a hypocrite? Was she just pissed about almost getting killed. That's what I'm thinking but I'm curious as to if anyone thinks otherwise
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#23
Jayne23

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just have finished watching season 2 again and how much better would it have been if when she strolled out to have the little heart to heart with shane / while making comment about not knowing whose baby it was/ she would have said to him look it is time for you to leave......instead of pulling him the other way that is what set shane into that whole randall plot He was out there fixing a look out platform.....
but for lori it is so much more fun pretending your in high school
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#24
Things&Stuff

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No hate from me here, Things&Stuff! My mom always told us that my dad came first and us a close second. I find nothing wrong with that, and I think it keeps a marriage stronger than losing your identity as a husband/wife or man/woman to the sole identity of dad/mom. I myself have no kids, by choice, and one of the many things that factored into my decision is that I like my relationship and life with my husband the way it is.

On the Lori subject, I don't think she was a whore. She honestly thought her husband was dead, and grief can take many unexpected forms. I also know that being married to a cop is a VERY rough thing, so I don't necessarily blame her for the trouble they were having pre-ZA. I didn't start to really hate her until she decided to keep Judith. I understand her change of heart from wanting to let Carl slip away when he was shot to wanting him to live, but the baby really was beyond the pale for me. I found her to be very selfish, both in that area and in playing Rick and Shane against each other, while pretending to be the dutiful wife.


Every time she talked to Shane in a nice way she was trying to repair their relationship for Rick's sake. Every time I watch season 2 I hear her telling Shane that it was over, she was with Rick now and for forever. I see Shane rationalizing and justifying his claim on her and Carl. When he said he didn't have to worry about Rick any more Lori realized that Rick's life was in danger. That's why she went after him in Nebraska. She risked her life to save Rick's. How can anyone interpret that as 'playing one against the other'?

As for keeping Judith, she said that was her decision and she didn't want Rick or anyone else to give up one bite or one minute's worry about the baby, it was all on her.
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#25
Things&Stuff

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Double sidenote. Maggie seems to have good faith (Beth and Herschel too) and she tossed the morning after pills and said something like here's your baby killing pills or something like that. And shes prayed in recent episodes. But she told the story in the episode where beth wanted to die that Beth had found her BIRTH CONTROL pills when she came home from college. Was she being a hypocrite? Was she just pissed about almost getting killed. That's what I'm thinking but I'm curious as to if anyone thinks otherwise


Preventing a pregnancy is much different from eliminating one. There's much disinformation in the choice debate that muddies the issue. One of the terms not used accurately is 'abortifacient'. An intra uterine device, iud, is an abortifacient because it keeps a fertilized egg from taking hold on the side of the uterus. Once an egg is fertilized it's another life (it's own DNA).

I never thought about Maggie's reaction in the light of a PreZa debate but as one where Lori was careless enough to get pregnant in the first place. But I can see where it would occur to you. Good point.
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