What If Shane Succeeded In "better Angels?"

- - - - - season 2 Shane Rick Carl speculation

#1
I_Follow_You_Axel

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During the final moments of Better Angels, Rick took a knife to a gun fight and won. After watching this episode again, I pondered about what would have happened had Shane carried out his original plan. Here's what I've come up with.

Shane shoots Rick in the heart and immediately leaves the scene to return to the house. Carl, having wandered away looking for his father, approaches the field where he sees his father standing, swaying abck and forth. Carl calls out to him, and Rick turns and stumbles toward Carl. Carl then realizes Rick is a walker and makes the difficult decision to shoot him. He then returns to the house.

The nearby herd hears the second shot and begins heading toward the farm.

Shane arrives back to the house, where Daryl and Glenn had already reported their findings on Randall. Shane says Rick had been shot by Randall, so he snapped Randall's neck as he made his escape. Daryl calls Shane on his lies, to which Glenn backs him up. The situation escalates, and the group turns on Shane. Shane, feeling trapped, pulls his gun on everyone, and demands Lori and Carl leave with him.

At this point, the herd attacks and surrounds the house. Those who aren't torn apart by the walkers escape to the basement, only to die several days later, after the supplies Hershel left there run out.

Rick may not be a perfect leader, and his actions during Beside the Dying Fire weren't anything special that saved the entire group, but because he stayed with Shane to watch him turn, not only to he confirm Jenner's statement, but he was able to see the herd coming. He couldn't warn anyone, but he managed to set the barn on fire to draw many walkers away from the house. The farm still fell, but there were few casulties.

Shane, on the other hand, would have ran from the herd, after collecting Lori and Carl. He would have left the Greene family and Glenn to die, probably hurting some of them in the process of taking the gun bag for himself. A smart move, yes. But the move of a strong leader? No.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this "What if?" scenario?
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#2
Thierry88

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I think that if Shane would have killed Rick, the group except Lori and Carl would have been doomed. Rick's decisions do not always prove to be the smartest, but so far he managed to keep up the spirit in the group alive, except for his snapping in the final of Beside the Dying Fire. Shane's decisions may seem to be the most logical ones at some points, but the way he acts (trying to rape Lori in the CDC, attempting to shoot Jenner, threatening Dale) seems he is out of control. I doubt Shane would come up with the idea to lure the walkers to the barn and set them on fire. Judging by how he "planned" the whole respirator mission, he is not really good in making strategies, and his ruse with Randall was quite sloppy as well (I don't think Shane thought about Daryl and Glenn finding Randall before a gun was fired). Shane based his decisions on emotions (he is driven by his lust for Lori and the need to keep her safe), not rationale, and that is one way to get yourself and the whole group killed.
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#3
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I do think that Lori would have reacted to Shane coming back alone the same way as she reacted to Rick coming back. Her reaction was more about her guilt than anything else. So, I do believe that Shane would have had to take Lori and Carl by gun point.
I think the other members would have put up more of a fight, though, if it came down to that. Now, knowing what Shane is capable of, I think there would have been more of a fight to let them leave. Even if it meant shooting out the tires of their vehicle. So, possibly they would have seen the horde approaching.
I also think it would take more than a few days to starve to death, depending on the supplies and how many people were left, at that point.
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#4
shrike

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Two reasons Rick got the drop on Shane at all was that he didn't completely want to kill Rick, and he was so woozy from bashing his head into the tree. Shane might have collapsed before or just after he got back to the house
Carl may not have shot a zombie Rick
If Randall had not reanimated Shane might have gotten away with it
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#5
brain baker

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Can't decide if i'd be happier if Carl put down zombie Rick or is zombie Rick put down Carl.
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#6
DeadCave

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Agree with the assessments made here but also I would factor in Daryl kicking Shane's ass or even killing him. Rick basically had Daryl on a leash so to speak. Daryl probably still sees himself as the "outsider" of the group and stayed with them primarily because Rick has kept everyone alive and has a cool head and thinks things out. True Rick blew up and did the Ricktatorship thing at the end of the season but even then anyone can see the stress the man has been under and his conviction to keep the group alive. He gave everyone the option to leave, when they didn't it spoke volumes about his leadership.
Shane was indeed more emotionally driven but he was also emotionally screwed up from his tryst with Lori. He tasted the "married with children" lifestyle and discovered he liked it. Now it was stripped away from him when "helicopter boy" showed up. The murder of Otis and his feelings that his opinions don't matter anymore, his loss of "status with the group" (in his mind), Lori's abusive treatment of him (rightly so, because he DID try to rape her), then apologizing to him, all of that messed with his head.
One of my FB friends complained in her status: "Why do I want what I can't have?" Kinda sums up what Shane was going through, IMO.
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#7
chowfun

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To be honest, I couldn't see Shane actually pulling the trigger. He was a rash, violent, and disturbed man, but in that scene he looked more confused and desperate than I had ever seen him. I think Shane would have cracked and shot himself. I know it's weird to think or say this, but I saw Shane committing suicide rather than killing his "brother". I think Shane saw something was wrong. In those moments that he hesitated, it seemed he was reflecting all of the craziness that happened in mere months. I think at that moment, when Shane and Rick entered the field at night, there was no way possible that Shane was going to come back alive. Everything Shane said about Lori and Carl in his last moments was him trying to convince himself that killing Rick would make things better. I think he realized it was the exact opposite.

Shane was many things; a protector, friend, fighter, lover, and villain. One thing I do not think he would have done was betray the people he cared about. Regardless of how he felt about Rick, it did not undo years of friendship, love, and memories. Shane had lost it, he was under a lot of pressure, and going through emotions that no one but him could possibly understand. The way he handled grief was unconventional to the show but provided the audience with insight on what ordinary people are capable of when put under extreme pressure.

My reason why Shane would not kill or shoot at Rick because then it would open the doors for one question, who is safe? We can eliminate all of the group members, besides Carl and Lori. Now we are left to question Lori and Carl's safety under Shane's guidance. I believe that Shane is a good protector especially when it comes to himself and to the people he cares about, but Pandora's box has been opened and people Shane cares about are no longer safe because he shot Rick. Who is to say that Shane wouldn't have gotten rid of Carl when he saw fit because the little boy really wasn't "his." You have a guy like Shane who is unraveling and no one is safe.

One last thing in regards to Shane. He did not 'love' Lori. He needed Lori. He wanted a reason to continue on in this world. He found that when he played Superman and saved Lori and Carl that he had a purpose. He was the hero or better yet the alpha male and he was looked up to by Lori, Carl and the majority of the group before Rick arrived. Prior to the ZA, I do not know who Shane had in his life. It leads me to believe that he was a fun guy. A guy who was living it up. Lots of girls and lots of friends, but nothing really solid. The only solid or 'regular' people in Shane's life was probably Rick, Lori, and Carl. Pre-Apocalypse era Shane was probably okay with being a one man show. He'd settle down when he wanted to. Now fast forward to ZA world. Most of the population is dead and Shane has lost everything he has built for himself. Now he is alone because Rick has come back. Lori and Carl do not belong to him anymore. He has lost the one thing that matters most in a time of crisis, which IMO is the love and support of those around you, i.e. family in most cases. Shane was a wild dog who needed a pack.

IDK just my two cents. I went way further than I wanted to go. lol oops
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#8
Medic.

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During the final moments of Better Angels, Rick took a knife to a gun fight and won. After watching this episode again, I pondered about what would have happened had Shane carried out his original plan. Here's what I've come up with.

Shane shoots Rick in the heart and immediately leaves the scene to return to the house. Carl, having wandered away looking for his father, approaches the field where he sees his father standing, swaying abck and forth. Carl calls out to him, and Rick turns and stumbles toward Carl. Carl then realizes Rick is a walker and makes the difficult decision to shoot him. He then returns to the house.

The nearby herd hears the second shot and begins heading toward the farm.

Shane arrives back to the house, where Daryl and Glenn had already reported their findings on Randall. Shane says Rick had been shot by Randall, so he snapped Randall's neck as he made his escape. Daryl calls Shane on his lies, to which Glenn backs him up. The situation escalates, and the group turns on Shane. Shane, feeling trapped, pulls his gun on everyone, and demands Lori and Carl leave with him.

At this point, the herd attacks and surrounds the house. Those who aren't torn apart by the walkers escape to the basement, only to die several days later, after the supplies Hershel left there run out.

Rick may not be a perfect leader, and his actions during Beside the Dying Fire weren't anything special that saved the entire group, but because he stayed with Shane to watch him turn, not only to he confirm Jenner's statement, but he was able to see the herd coming. He couldn't warn anyone, but he managed to set the barn on fire to draw many walkers away from the house. The farm still fell, but there were few casulties.

Shane, on the other hand, would have ran from the herd, after collecting Lori and Carl. He would have left the Greene family and Glenn to die, probably hurting some of them in the process of taking the gun bag for himself. A smart move, yes. But the move of a strong leader? No.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this "What if?" scenario?


I stopped reading when it said Carl returned to the house! Talk about fantasy! :P

I don't think Shane would be in control if he killed Rick. Daryl and TDog and Andrea are more than capable of taking him down. He's got one gun. What happens when three guns are pointing back at him?


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#9
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Two reasons Rick got the drop on Shane at all was that he didn't completely want to kill Rick, and he was so woozy from bashing his head into the tree. Shane might have collapsed before or just after he got back to the house
Carl may not have shot a zombie Rick
If Randall had not reanimated Shane might have gotten away with it


Shane: I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling walkers!!


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#10
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If Shane killed Rick I think he'd live long enough for Carl to give him another hole to breath out of like he did in the comics.
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