[Sapper]

I have to wonder just how hard a zombie can bite.  I would think that they are still basically human, in terms of physical strength.  As far as I know, humans can't chew their way through leather.  Perhaps the first item of business for a ZA survivor should be to hit the local leather store, grab some good leather boots, a nice thick leather trench coat, some thick leather gloves, and then wear a motorcycle helmet.  Honestly, how many zombies would be able to bite through all that?  Seems like a perfectly acceptable defense mechanism to me, and while their gnawing on the leather digs, I'd be bashing them in the head with a spiked baseball bat.  Who needs an armored car then?

Any other ideas for zombie armor?

[DeadCave]

Humans can bite pretty damn hard, maybe not as hard as say a dog, but enough to rip into raw flesh ... problem is the pain threshold is also high so we don't bite down as hard as we could under normal circumstances. Zombies don't have a pain threshold so they will bite bite bite until they get a chunk big enough to chew on  and swallow and then do it again. http://www.chacha.co...-a-humans-bite.

So wearing thick clothing when fighting these buggers (if you HAVE TO... if you don't have to ... RUN!) is a good idea.

Spoiler

In the comic/GN Kirkman has Glenn and Maggie finding riot gear in the prison... pretty nifty idea because at least you have a better fighting chance.

But think about it... even if they can't get through the "tough leather clothes" you'll be wearing... you'd best hope they don't get some skin and muscle underneath in that bite ... it'll still hurt...
Also gotta ask... you're wearing all of that and hoping to fight off... how many?? with a spiked baseball bat?
Could you take on a small group like say the size of the group that attacked Shane and Andrea when they went looking for Sophia together? Or are you thinking 2 or 3...
Remember also that they have hands that will grab and tear at you... ask two or 3 of your friends to gang up on you all at once and see how well you do fighting them off...

Edited by DeadCave, 26 April 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Sapper]

I'm sure it wouldn't be ideal for all the time, but maybe you would "suit up" before going on a run into town.

[DeadCave]

Major Highway, on 26 April 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

I'm sure it wouldn't be ideal for all the time, but maybe you would "suit up" before going on a run into town.

True that... but it'd suck being caught without wearing it during down time.

[Sapper]

I've thought of that riot gear stuff, but that is pretty bulky, harder to fight in than some cool leather digs would be, I think.  Plus, that stuff is more designed for protection against a blunt force impact, not against grinding teeth, which would be more like shears.  I feel that it would be strong in compressive strength and week in tension and if a z got a good chomp and pulled it would come apart easier than the leather.

[backwoodsroamer]

All armor is a compromise between protection and mobility. That applies to everything from body armor to main battle tanks. Dead cave and yourself have pretty much already figured out the pluses and minuses already. If you've got a good bit of change to spend, there are companies that can manufacture a whole set of clothes out of kevlar. Google it.

However, you then have to worry about having a heat stroke or being dog piled by a gang of Zs. Like I said, it's always a compromise.

[DominusPisces]

I've been playing skyrim too much lately. My first thought when I read the title of the thread was of some lunatic at a work bench sawing and cutting and stitching slain zombie parts into a suit of armor. That would be one customer I don't think I want to run into.
Ha! "There is one they fear. In their tongue he is called Zombie-born!"

[SpartanZombie]

On the Zombie biting power thing, I think they covered this on the Vampire vs Zombies Deadliest Warrior episode.

I think the conclusion they ran into was a Zombie would have the same core jaw strength as a normal human, but without the fear of injuring themself.

You can tell a human to bite down on something as hard as they can, but they would still only be 50%-75% using their full strength. Instincts tell you to hold back for fear of breaking a tooth or tearing the ligaments in your jaw.

Zombies wouldnt have that lol.

IIRC they used a Alsation in the end to judge bite power of a Zombie. How accurate this may be, I leae you to judge but the injury thing makes sense to me

[Shane-Walsh]

Armor wont do much when your swamped with zombies all around you, sooner or later the'll get past it. I would just wear something light that covers up skin, like jeans and a long sleeve shirt. Lets you run away when you need to must easier and faster, without having the chance to snag up on something.

Edited by Shane-Walsh, 30 April 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Sapper]

I agree with all the comments about not doing much for a swarm.  My thought is that it would keep you safe from that random lurker you meet in a store while searching for supplies, the one who sneaks up on you.  Sure, it might hurt, but it wouldn't rip your flesh off, and you wouldn't get infected.  It'd give you a chance to get away.

As far as the strength of the bite, yeah, I can see it being pretty strong.  The key is to have armor protect your enough that you don't die or get infected as mentioned previously.

[Texaxile]

Hi
Most modern overalls / boiler suits and pretty much all surplus military / police clothing is relatively "rip" proof, while the thick reinforced cotton / synthetic fibres won't do much against the crushing damage of a bite, it will, hopefully help prevent actual laceration and penetration. Thats not to say you can't get cut underneath the clothing or will stop any infectious saliva getting in, but as a lightweight barrier it's a better option than jeans and a T shirt (which is why I can't figure out why, in TWD they're all running about fighting off walkers in T shirts when they know the effect of a bite)...

Kevlar stuff is good, but expensive and not the easiest gear to run around in. Motorcyle helmets are fine for a standy, but vision is restricted and they do get a bit heavy if you're running around.

[BigEd]

DeadCave, on 26 April 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Zombies don't have a pain threshold so they will bite bite bite until they get a chunk big enough to chew on  and swallow and then do it again.

Actually the pain threshhold is a physical alarm/gauge our body uses to warn us that damage may occur.

When you overexert a part of the body you are doing damage to it. If there is no threshold, and you exponentially exert it, you break it. In the case of a "zombie", the jaw muscles tear, or break the jaw/teeth.

Basically within the means physiology a zombie could attempt a exponential feat of strength once, but would most likely damage/destroy that part of the body it is using. Powerlifters, Football players, and even Baseball players do it alot.

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT:
Videos of Pitchers breaking their arms while pitching.

[leon the pig farmer]

I'd hit the first S&M store, all that leather........

Sapper, on 26 April 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

I have to wonder just how hard a zombie can bite.  I would think that they are still basically human, in terms of physical strength.  As far as I know, humans can't chew their way through leather.  Perhaps the first item of business for a ZA survivor should be to hit the local leather store, grab some good leather boots, a nice thick leather trench coat, some thick leather gloves, and then wear a motorcycle helmet.  Honestly, how many zombies would be able to bite through all that?  Seems like a perfectly acceptable defense mechanism to me, and while their gnawing on the leather digs, I'd be bashing them in the head with a spiked baseball bat.  Who needs an armored car then?

Any other ideas for zombie armor?

[Barry Cade]

leon the pig farmer, on 31 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

I'd hit the first S&M store, all that leather........

Yeah, but what would you use for armour?

[Crushedknee]

Sports equipment supplemented by sheet metal..Like aluminum signs they are everywhere and easier to work with common tools with than steel. Shields are huge advantage in non firearm combat. They give you time  to strick back and protect you from  being grappled to the ground. They are not Photogenic so we dont see them in movies much but in a real fight something and a shield beats beats someone without a shield 90% of the time.

[Horace Q Nebsworth]

it's ridiculous to me that people in TWD aren't protecting themselves, when you know if you get bit you die. So you walk around in a T-shirt in a world FULL of things trying to bite you ?

I get that it's a TV show, but if that were my ass on the line...and i had nothing but TIME..I would construct a suit of lightweight armor that protected me from head to toe.

Those plastic green storage bins would be strong enough to resist a bite, and you could melt ,cut  and bend them to fit you perfectly,and very tight... all you would need is a bunch of them, a  blowtorch, a shitload of velcro and some shears.

would it be a little uncomfortable? yes.

Is that a better alternative than being eaten alive by Zombies? ummm...Yes

I wouldn't wear it 24/7 but if i was going out on a run, or in a hot area..i would have that shit on. when I'm in a secure area, and I'm holed up for the night..then i would  take it off.

like the OP said...if a walker crept up on you and grabbed you,,,instead of being bit and dying....you live . Even if a group of them attacked you, it's still going to protect you and give you fighting chance, instead of the first one that gets a hold of you, your'e dead meat.

And to take it further...what if EVERYONE in your group has armour on when they are out in the open ? much safer. I would have a few people making armour for everyone, it would be mandatory on missions. It doesn't have to be iron...just strong enough to stop a bite from breaking your skin...it would not hamper mobility all that much, if  any

I think it would be a no-brainer if the world was full of zombies and there only weapon was their teeth and nails. Back when sharp instruments were the weapon of choice..people who had money wore Armour, and lived a lot longer than those who didn't

It's protection...who in their right mind wouldn't try and protect themselves any way possible in that environment, where there REALLY ARE things trying to kill you at every turn.

Yes I know...it's make believe and there are no Zombies..but it's fun asking "what if"

[BigEd]

I wear alot of heavyweight cotton canvas carhartts pants/jackets/coveralls at work. But I wear them mostly in the colder months. Even the double knee pants (loggers) will make you sweat indoors.

Good luck bitting through them...

[Barry Cade]

Horace Q Nebsworth, on 01 June 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Yes I know...it's make believe and there are no Zombies..but it's fun asking "what if"

You've hit on the very RAISIN D'ETRE (sic) of Roamers and Lurkers ™.

[leon the pig farmer]

You have a point there, but at this stage in their survival they haven't really found a place to hunker down, lick their wounds (wounds I said), and take stock of their future.  They've been running since day one.  Poor old Herschel didn't have anything that could've been made into armour, unless he had a S&M dungeon in his basement.

I agree with you though,  Even if they somehow wrapped and stitched old leather jacket strips around their arms, legs etc.  Helmets on their heads, or big think gloves.  Anything to protect their extremities.

Horace Q Nebsworth, on 01 June 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

it's ridiculous to me that people in TWD aren't protecting themselves, when you know if you get bit you die. So you walk around in a T-shirt in a world FULL of things trying to bite you ?

I get that it's a TV show, but if that were my ass on the line...and i had nothing but TIME..I would construct a suit of lightweight armor that protected me from head to toe.

Those plastic green storage bins would be strong enough to resist a bite, and you could melt ,cut  and bend them to fit you perfectly,and very tight... all you would need is a bunch of them, a  blowtorch, a shitload of velcro and some shears.

would it be a little uncomfortable? yes.

Is that a better alternative than being eaten alive by Zombies? ummm...Yes

I wouldn't wear it 24/7 but if i was going out on a run, or in a hot area..i would have that shit on. when I'm in a secure area, and I'm holed up for the night..then i would  take it off.

like the OP said...if a walker crept up on you and grabbed you,,,instead of being bit and dying....you live . Even if a group of them attacked you, it's still going to protect you and give you fighting chance, instead of the first one that gets a hold of you, your'e dead meat.

And to take it further...what if EVERYONE in your group has armour on when they are out in the open ? much safer. I would have a few people making armour for everyone, it would be mandatory on missions. It doesn't have to be iron...just strong enough to stop a bite from breaking your skin...it would not hamper mobility all that much, if  any

I think it would be a no-brainer if the world was full of zombies and there only weapon was their teeth and nails. Back when sharp instruments were the weapon of choice..people who had money wore Armour, and lived a lot longer than those who didn't

It's protection...who in their right mind wouldn't try and protect themselves any way possible in that environment, where there REALLY ARE things trying to kill you at every turn.

Yes I know...it's make believe and there are no Zombies..but it's fun asking "what if"

[The Reaper]

Most humans will not over exert themselves past their pain tolerances,this is where a zombie would get it's unnatural strength.That said a zombies bite would not be uniform if you account for broken teeth which would exert considerably more pressure.Humans bite around 150 pds psi but that is exerted over two rows of 16 teeth if you take 3 teeth for example we would be talking about 1800 pds psi not taking into effect their ability to over exert the jaw muscle,taking that into effect lets say roughly 30% more powerful then a human we get approximately 2340 pds psi,for reference alligators bite with around 2500 pds psi,suffice it to say there are not many things readily available to protect against a bite like that.

Edited by The Reaper, 04 June 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[BigEd]

The Reaper, on 04 June 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Most humans will not over exert themselves past their pain tolerances,this is where a zombie would get it's unnatural strength.That said a zombies bite would not be uniform if you account for broken teeth which would exert considerably more pressure.Humans bite around 150 pds psi but that is exerted over two rows of 16 teeth if you take 3 teeth for example we would be talking about 1800 pds psi not taking into effect their ability to over exert the jaw muscle,taking that into effect lets say roughly 30% more powerful then a human we get approximately 2340 pds psi,for reference alligators bite with around 2500 pds psi,suffice it to say there are not many things readily available to protect against a bite like that.

When you overexert a part of the body you are doing damage to it.
If there is no threshold, and you exponentially exert it, you break it.
In the case of a "zombie", the jaw muscles tear, or break the jaw/teeth.

Basically within the means physiology a zombie could attempt a exponential feat of strength once, and would likely damage/destroy that part of the body it is using.
Athlete's Powerlifters, Football players, and even Baseball players do it alot.

[The Reaper]

BigEd, on 05 June 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

When you overexert a part of the body you are doing damage to it.
If there is no threshold, and you exponentially exert it, you break it.
In the case of a "zombie", the jaw muscles tear, or break the jaw/teeth.

Basically within the means physiology a zombie could attempt a exponential feat of strength once, and would likely damage/destroy that part of the body it is using.
Athlete's Powerlifters, Football players, and even Baseball players do it alot.

That is not exactly true,as a broken tooth or exposed jaw bone will exert the same amount of pressure if not more due to the lack uniformity,as for muscle density,who knows what effects it would have on muscle density and tendon strength.
Humans have been genetically crippled for reasons unknown.

Quote

In an article published in the April issue of Current Anthropology, Walker argues that humans may lack the strength of chimps because our nervous systems exert more control over our muscles. Our fine motor control prevents great feats of strength, but allows us to perform delicate and uniquely human tasks.

MacLarnon showed that, relative to body mass, chimps have much less grey matter in their spinal cords than humans have. Spinal grey matter contains large numbers of motor neurons—nerves cells that connect to muscle fibers and regulate muscle movement.

More grey matter in humans means more motor neurons, Walker proposes. And having more motor neurons means more muscle control.

Our surplus motor neurons allow us to engage smaller portions of our muscles at any given time. We can engage just a few muscle fibers for delicate tasks like threading a needle, and progressively more for tasks that require more force. Conversely, since chimps have fewer motor neurons, each neuron triggers a higher number of muscle fibers. So using a muscle becomes more of an all-or-nothing proposition for chimps. As a result, chimps often end up using more muscle than they need.

This would account for zombie strength exceeding that of humans.

[BigEd]

The Reaper, on 06 June 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

That is not exactly true,as a broken tooth or exposed jaw bone will exert the same amount of pressure if not more due to the lack uniformity,as for muscle density,who knows what effects it would have on muscle density and tendon strength.

This would account for zombie strength exceeding that of humans.

Not entirely. When humans bite down upon any hard substance, there is always a chance of breaking or chipping a tooth. Just ask any Dentist. If the substance were leather and the bite did not penetrate it, additional pressure beyond normal would automatically begin to stress out the muscles and tendons. Since there is no pain threshold, excessive pressure applied beyond normal is at automatic risk of failure.

One point people also fail to recognize is that when a bite occurs. The teeth are attempting to penetrate 2 layers of clothing/armor (area of a fold), plus a layer of epidermis/flesh/muscle within the fold. The wider the bite, the less leverage, and less power to bite down.

Pun came to mind: Biting off more than you can chew.

Human beings teeth are suited for chewing and tearing flesh. But shearing through fabrics that stretch and fold, they are not.

[DeadZedHead]

Full gp racing leathers are very thick with skid pads in key areas yet flexible enough to allow good range of movement. Full face helmet with air vents. The idea isn't to let a walker gnaw on you for a prolonged time. Just have enough protection that when you get surprised or overwhelmed, you can push it off without it taking a chunk out of you.   P.S. walkers have small mouths with in uneven bites.  The wider a mouth is open the less the biting force. Lack of pain or no, thick body parts like arms legs and shoulders would be tough for zeds to bite into with any kind of force.  They are more likely to tear the top layer of flesh off.  Crocs and gators have long mouths with the strongest bite forces closer to the back of the mouth.  Like a pair of scissors.   Humans cheaks mean they use the front teeth for biting small chunks with sharp teeth and the back strong teeth for grinding up the small bits.  No way they can chew through good leathers that hold up to 80 mph road rash.  Keep your fingers and soft neck out of their mouth and you should be able to thrash yourself away from 2 or 3 without getting bit.  Just keep you're helmet strapped tight.  The strap kind, not the snap kind.

[S2x210]

Motorcycle armors and leathers, full body designed to reduce penetration and blunt force impact, I'd also wear nice riot helmet.