[SpartanZombie]

Now most people here will say the modern era, as we have guns.

I tend to disagree. Yes, we have guns, but people with guns tend to rely on guns, and ammo runs out. Then we're all unexperienced with melee fighting and hav crappy short weapons like knicves and hammers to deal with the biters....,

My personal opinion, (hence my name lol) is that the Spartans wouldve put down a ZA no problem.

Close shield Phalanx With Spears, swords and short swords, not to mention a few archers to thin em out before the horde impacted (though the Spartans hated archers, I just mean their historical era, so I suppose I should say the Greeks), the ZA wouldve been easy pickings.

Just imagine, 300 style, but the horde wouldnt be smart enough to turn back, they would just keep getting smashed on the Spartan shield wall.

Also consider defense. The Spartans were armoured head to toe in Bronze, with full faced helmets. What Zombie is gonna bite through that?

We ha the brief period in the comic books where people were wearing riot gear, but I dont think that washes. It offers SOME protection but the Zombies could still grip it with their teeth and hold you to allow you to be over whelmed. With bronze, or any metal for that matter, their would be no purchase for their teeth, and them trying just allows them to ram a sword in their brain.

Obviously, give a modern person a full suit of Spartan armour and they would barely be able to stand, but back then, this was NORMAL, and people would be able to fight in it no problem.

Though this does bring up the question of what if someone turns into a Zombie while wearing said armour?

This idea is the origin of my name lol. a Spartan Zombie would be  a ferocious beast, cos how the feck are you going to pierce that helmet to get at its brain?

ANyways, random thread I thought Id start, please discuss

[Goat]

Genghis Khan vs. Zombies gets my vote.

That should be a horrible low budget movie.

Edited by Goat, 26 April 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[SpartanZombie]

Goat, on 26 April 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Genghis Khan vs. Zombies gets my vote.

That should be a horrible low budget movie.

Lol, hell, ID watch it

Good shout btw, Geghis Khan is another era of history I'm very familiar with. The could get in, get out very quickly with pin point accuracy with their arrows and a bow with a stupidly long range on it.

Although, its sort of the same thing I said about guns, arrows run out, and although the Mongols were more than decent sword fighters, their real strength was Marksmanship.

Good shout though, they would certainly put up a great fight

[Corza]

Probably the real reason modern day society isn't equipped to fight it is because of a dense population. Millions of people living close to each other causes the virus to spread much easier and cause the massive hordes of zombies to grow and spread throughout the country.

Your point is still valid though being an excellent swordsman in a time like this would come in handy as you wouldn't have to rely on ammunition and sound wouldn't be an issue so you wouldn't have to worry about attracting more zombies. Without guns you wouldn't have to worry about surprised medium range attacks by Raiders (or whatever you want to call them). Guns can be effective though for a quick kill in desperate times.

[SpartanZombie]

Corza, on 26 April 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

Probably the real reason modern day society isn't equipped to fight it is because of a dense population. Millions of people living close to each other causes the virus to spread much easier and cause the massive hordes of zombies to grow and spread throughout the country.

Your point is still valid though being an excellent swordsman in a time like this would come in handy as you wouldn't have to rely on ammunition and sound wouldn't be an issue so you wouldn't have to worry about attracting more zombies. Without guns you wouldn't have to worry about surprised medium range attacks by Raiders (or whatever you want to call them). Guns can be effective though for a quick kill in desperate times.

Yea I think Michonne is proof enough that sworsmanship is a skill that is VERY useful in a ZA, and she only had highschool fencing training! Imagine if you had a sword forced into your hand the moment you could work, and you also were clad in armour that is bite-proof? One man in a narrow spot could kill hundreds if not thousands of Zombies.

Arrows could fill in for guns on the raider front though. Arrows would be very useful the only reason I didnt really include them in my OP was theyre like bullets, they run out.

I love thinking bout this stuff lol Im such a history geek An I have a Zombie obsession so topics like this merge my loves lol.

And sound is a very valid point aswell If you were with a reasonably smart group of people in historical times the amount of times you have to actually deal with a horde would be very slim, unless ofcourse you went out hunting them

Population density also, that is a problem our society will always have, if not a ZA, just any sort of virus. If a virus is very Infectious theres probably no way to avoid contracting it in one way or another. Tho some of the cities in ancient times were just as congested as any of our cities today, if not more so, the country-side would be the place to go in a relatively undeveloped world. A decent group of about 100 people, clad head to foot in bronze with a healthy supply of spears, swords, maybe a few arrows, and a whetstone or 2, and I think the Zombies would die out before humans would

[backwoodsroamer]

Alright we're in agreement on some things and not on others. First off a Greek hoplite is not full armored.


As you can see his armor consists mainly of greaves on his legs, his helmet, and shield. His clothing is made of stiffened layers of linen which would provide some protection against a slash. The reason for this is the way they fought in a phalanx. The phalanx was particularly effective in Greece where the mountainous terrain provided little room to maneuver. The phalanx consists of a group of armored men in ranks 10-12 deep with each rank having a longer spear than the rank in front of it.. It looked like this from the front
.
Basically you had two juggernaut formations who slammed into each other until one drove the other from the field. The Greeks made some use of cavalry  for scouting and slingers and archers on the flanks to annoy the other side, but they were mainly heavy infantry. This is why the Spartans were so effective at Thermopylae.  Thermopylae was a narrow mountain pass. A bottle neck if you will. The Spartans were the cork in the bottle. The Persians played a sucker's game. They kept making frontal assaults against the Spartan's phalanx. This was the very tactic the phalanx was designed to resist. Sure by force of numbers the Persians were eventually able to force the pass. A tactical victory, but a strategic defeat, because they had incurred so many casualties they were too weak to accomplish their original goal. Which was conquering Greece. You don't win by playing the other side's game. You win by making them play your game.

The weakness of the phalanx was that once set in motion it was very inflexible. Some of the spears used by the back ranks were 20 feet long. Try to use this unwieldy formation against a zombie herd and they are going to start spilling around the flanks, which are rather poorly protected. Also you better make sure every zombie in front of you is dead (redead?) before you advance over them. If not there is going to be a lot of bites to the foot, ankle, and leg.

The  Greeks and their phalanx eventually lost out to the Romans. The Romans were all about flexible tactics and maneuvering on the battle field. These were the very tactics the Greek phalanx was weak at combating. Later we'll get into how the Roman legions would fare against zombies.

Edited by backwoodsroamer, 26 April 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[The Ultimate]

Michonne has demonstrated many times that all you need is a sword.
There were more swords in the old days.

[Major Tom]

Great post by roamer on the ancient military formations. Can you picture a Greek phalanx with 4-5 Z's impaled on each spear, still pushing and backed up by several thousand relentless undead. Not a pretty picture

In the typical zombie scenario where humans are outnumbered 10-1 or worse, you would definitely need to go asymmetric.

I think the thing that would put us ahead more than weapons would be our better infrastructure, better sources of food and clean water (think canned goods), better medicines, and lack of superstitions.

I also think the value of modern weapons is being sold short and would give us a huge edge when combined with the other factors.

I totally agree that Z's vs the ancients would make one helluva flick. Until someone make the movie, we'll never know who would fare better.

[SpartanZombie]

backwoodsroamer, on 26 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Alright we're in agreement on some things and not on others. First off a Greek hoplite is not full armored.


As you can see his armor consists mainly of greaves on his legs, his helmet, and shield. His clothing is made of stiffened layers of linen which would provide some protection against a slash. The reason for this is the way they fought in a phalanx. The phalanx was particularly effective in Greece where the mountainous terrain provided little room to maneuver. The phalanx consists of a group of armored men in ranks 10-12 deep with each rank having a longer spear than the rank in front of it.. It looked like this from the front
.
Basically you had two juggernaut formations who slammed into each other until one drove the other from the field. The Greeks made some use of cavalry  for scouting and slingers and archers on the flanks to annoy the other side, but they were mainly heavy infantry. This is why the Spartans were so effective at Thermopylae.  Thermopylae was a narrow mountain pass. A bottle neck if you will. The Spartans were the cork in the bottle. The Persians played a sucker's game. They kept making frontal assaults against the Spartan's phalanx. This was the very tactic the phalanx was designed to resist. Sure by force of numbers the Persians were eventually able to force the pass. A tactical victory, but a strategic defeat, because they had incurred so many casualties they were too weak to accomplish their original goal. Which was conquering Greece. You don't win by playing the other side's game. You win by making them play your game.

The weakness of the phalanx was that once set in motion it was very inflexible. Some of the spears used by the back ranks were 20 feet long. Try to use this unwieldy formation against a zombie herd and they are going to start spilling around the flanks, which are rather poorly protected. Also you better make sure every zombie in front of you is dead (redead?) before you advance over them. If not there is going to be a lot of bites to the foot, ankle, and leg.

The  Greeks and their phalanx eventually lost out to the Romans. The Romans were all about flexible tactics and maneuvering on the battle field. These were the very tactics the Greek phalanx was weak at combating. Later we'll get into how the Roman legions would fare against zombies.

Technically speaking, it was the Macedonians who had the innovation of the super long spears, the Spartans hadnt gotten to that yet

I accept your points however. The flanks are very exposed. I meant that the Spartans in a bottleneck like Thermopylae, not on an open plain

The zombies in essence would be just like the Persians, only they wouldnt try to find a way around lol they would just keep smashing against them And there would be no need for the Spartans to advance over the hoard, the hoard would just keep coming for hope of a nice meal

Yes there are SOME exposed areas on a Spartan Hoplite, but I believe the shield, against a dumb-as-fook enemy like zombies, would be more than enough to cover these vital areas. Lock shields, hold, and stab!

The Romans would probably actually be a better era, especially if they could not CHOOSE their battleground, but what can I say, Im just a Spartan geek lol

[leon the pig farmer]

im thinking this is the best era, plenty of media and communications pre ZA would help you prepare. post ZA, plenty of food sources, communication sources to scavange, an abbundance of abandoned vehicles, gun stores, warehouse sized outdoor stores packed floor to ceiling with state of the art survival gear and weapons from crossbows, pistols and rifles.
there would also be many choices for a secure location to hold up in.

you could spend a week going from truck store to outdoor store, walmart, liqour and home depot and then to a secure compound

[scarylala]

i think it would be this generation that would cope better because we have seen lots of zombie films, tv shows & games, not to mention we're used to violent films etc so we're less likely to panic.

[Crushedknee]

Middle age Europe..A time a disorder disease and common place violence. Almost every cluster of humanity was an armed camp complete with a walled keep for defense..People where also familier and fearfull of contagious disease and outsiders where carefully observed. Banditry and small scale warfare commonplace and a warrior class of highly trained, armed and armored lifetime dedicated warriors made it one of the most armed societies ever. Even the regular folk where no pushovers violent struggle was a reality  to them not an abstract fear.

[Rumiel]

Well, the era of the black plague would be perfect for the zombie apocalypse because you'd probably be dead before the zombies get to your doorstep!

[leon the pig farmer]

Some parts of the UK went into self quarantine, there's one old ruined village in North England that is a historical preserve, it was a village which cut itself off from the rest of the world.  They received their goods and supplies via one gate.  Those times would've been worse, all those millions of plague victims reanimating, the lack of communications, no media to warn of the double plague hitting their part of the world.

Imagine their surprise as the locals went to  get their supplies to instead see about a dozen zombies waiting for them.  Would make a great horror film though.

Here, read this for more about the quarantined towns and hamlets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyam  Here's the village, we visited it on a school trip, it was a really dark trip to take as a child.

Rumiel, on 01 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Well, the era of the black plague would be perfect for the zombie apocalypse because you'd probably be dead before the zombies get to your doorstep!

[Rumiel]

Hmmm isolation isn't always the way forwards then from what I see.

I guess you'd be lucky if you died before the zombies got to you, but if you didn't - the sheer number of zombies that would surround you would be catastrophic.

Well, the lesson learned from the black plague is that touching cloth has a 100% chance of killing you (this may happen over 80/90 years of your existence but it's still inevitable).

[Bro]

Yeah, if anything, modern day would be the worst possible era for a zombie apocalypse. Yes, we have the technology but that's a double edged sword. The reliance our society has on technology would be our biggest weakness. A good portion of people would die out simply because they would be forced to fend on their own, instead of being killed by the zombies themselves. On top of that, we have grown too "civilized" and therefore the hard decisions such as killing an infected person and leaving people behind who would drag down the group are much tougher decisions in a day and age when we are all raised with a sense of morality. Last, older societies just dealt with infections and medicines and repopulated like dogs to counteract that, where as today people are heavily dependant on modern medication and we have too much effort required for reproduction, so we would have to drop all social values to reproduce at a rate that it is counteracting the rate of deaths, which would be hard to do. Take any society 1000+ years ago and you have a much more successful defence against the zombie apocalypse, regardless of the weaponry.

Also, many towns were built with giant stone walls back then, and farming was done by one village for the use of said village, so they would have pre-build zombie fortresses with a method of renewable food already set up.