[DingDong09]

AdamBombOi, on 21 March 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

The AK is also extremely inaccurate

False- up to 300 meters it can easily hit center mass with a 3 shot burst, a skilled shooter can pull off a 1 shot headshot from such a range as well. The AK is more accurate than any weapon featured on the show by a huge amount. People who make this claim typically haven't ever shot it.

AK would be the best weapon for a Z-apocalypse because there is no risk of it jamming or misfiring, it has a heavy stock for hand to hand combat and it's nearly carbine-length barrel means it can be used as a CQC weapon with the capability of engage at longer ranges, stick a bayonet on it and you have an excellent slashing/stabbing weapon as well . The only weapon that would be comparable is a M4; however, the M4 inherits the inferior gas-inpingement system from its big brother.

Edited by DingDong09, 22 March 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[asc.rudeboy]

Maka523, on 22 March 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Why in the hell would you not be using the sights on your rifle?  Or, for that matter, any kind of gun?  That's what they're there for.  Iron sights, M68 Aimpoints, low magnification scopes, all those are there for you to see where your bullet is going.

because according to hollywood,everyone shoots their rifles from the hip and their pistols with a gangster lean..

[p230]

When people get to talking about the accuracy differences of the AK platfor vs. the AR platform remember that for literally decades now the AR has been refined in civilian service rifle matches.  They have been went over from front to back and some of that has made its way into the military rifles.  AR's can be ammo sensitive depending on what twist the barrel is but the AK's pretty much digest anything...pretty much.  So of the 5.45X39 rifles I have heard shoot better with some bullet weights but that has not been my experience.  I assure you that you don't want someone who has practiced shooting at you with an AK or an AR.  Again at the engagment ranges seen in the show an AK would do fine, the AR mabey a little better depending on sites.  Now if you have put a red dot on your AK like an EOTECH or Aimpoint they make a great CQB carbine.  Something about shooting an AK just puts a on my face...but then again so does an AR.

[maximus_pr]

please delete press wrong key

Edited by maximus_pr, 22 March 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[maximus_pr]

Whoever say ak rounds 7.62 x39 is not readily available in the US have  never been in a  gun store,most gun stores have a boatful of that  particular round unless you happen to live in a very small country town  whee mos people favor hunting rifles and particularly .308 and .45 1911  then you out of luck

sure M16 are ammo  sensitive but a customized AR can get you along way  also there are other variants like Sig 556 , H&K 416 ,FN SCAR plus  some other than outperforms the mil spec M16 i personally love the H&K a bit on the expensive side but one hell of a rifle.

another thing who in the right mind would be shooting zombies at more than 150 yards other than with a precision/hunting/sniping rifle with a decent optical sight? Unless you really need to eliminate a target at that distance you are just target practicing and wasting ammo.

[backwoodsroamer]

asc.rudeboy, on 22 March 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

because according to hollywood,everyone shoots their rifles from the hip and their pistols with a gangster lean..

Actually, it's not just Hollywood. I have a friend who was attempting to train the new Iraqi army. He told me he had a devil of a time trying to get them to use the sights on their rifles.  Most of them seemed to think the best thing to do was let the sling out until the weapon hung at waist level, set the selector to full auto, and spray bursts while sweeping the weapon back and forth like a garden hose.

I've seen the same thing farther south in Africa and Central America.  As for the gangster lean, a certain gentleman who instructed me years ago would slap me on the back of the head if I even slightly canted the sights. Maybe some people just like the feel of hot brass on their face.  

[fordmustangxba]

Not to beat a dead horse but I seriously can't believe people here saying they'd rather have pistols than 2 of the most-used and most recognizable weapons in the world. They have reached that status for a reason.

[asc.rudeboy]

backwoodsroamer, on 22 March 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Actually, it's not just Hollywood. I have a friend who was attempting to train the new Iraqi army. He told me he had a devil of a time trying to get them to use the sights on their rifles.  Most of them seemed to think the best thing to do was let the sling out until the weapon hung at waist level, set the selector to full auto, and spray bursts while sweeping the weapon back and forth like a garden hose.

I've seen the same thing farther south in Africa and Central America.  As for the gangster lean, a certain gentleman who instructed me years ago would slap me on the back of the head if I even slightly canted the sights. Maybe some people just like the feel of hot brass on their face.  

you dont think they have ever seen a movie? haha plus its the naturally lazy way to want to shoot it..

im completely ambidextrous when it comes to shooting pistols,im just as comfortable firing from either hand and only slightly more accurate with my right..,but im so right eye dominant that when i shoot with my left hand i tend to lean it towards my right, and i look like a drunk monkey trying to shoot off my left shoulder.

[Narren]

etphoto, on 22 March 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Do a little experiment (I find hard to believe that you'll actually do it).  Get a baseball bat and carry it around, everywhere you go.  Everything you do, carry that bat around.  WIthin a two hour period, count the number of times you set the bat down in order to do something (no matter what it is) with you hands.  Carry it around all day, see how tiring and cumbersome it becomes carrying.  Now, get a play holster with a  toy gun and put that on.  Live your day and count the number of times you set the handgun down.  Zero is my guess.  

You've obviously never been in the military.  If you live in a zombie apocalypse, and you leave your only weapon in another room, you deserve to get eaten.

And you're right, I won't do your experiment.  I know that I can carry a "baseball bat" all day long, and I DO wear a "play holster with a toy gun" everyday.

etphoto, on 22 March 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

If a large number of zombies where coming toward my encampment and I was setting up a defensive stance, yes, I'd like to have a long gun.  The accuracy would be helpful since u could start shooting while the zombies might be far off.

My guess thought (just trying to picture the Walking Dead world), most battles wouldn't occur in that manner.  Most battles would occur at much closer distances where accuracy isn't as critical.  The convenience of carrying the handgun plus plenty of ammo while living your day and the fact it has plenty of power to kill a zombie makes it a much preferred weapon.

But accuracy is ALWAYS critical.  A head shot on a moving target is very difficult under pressure, even when the target is relatively close.  I want to even the gap, and use the most accurate weapon with the most plentiful ammo.  I've trained a great deal with a variety of long arms and side arms.  I will always be more accurate with a rifle, even up close.  The only time that I can think of where a pistol would be preferable is shooting from a vehicle, but I don't see that being necessary very often (the shootout scene in the last episode of S2 was silly.  I enjoyed it thoroughly, but it was silly).

Of course, I would ideally carry a rifle, a pistol, and a couple of melee weapons.  But my only point was, if I had to choose just one, it would be the rifle.

[backwoodsroamer]

Narren, on 23 March 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

I DO wear a "play holster with a toy gun" everyday.


But accuracy is ALWAYS critical.  A head shot on a moving target is very difficult under pressure, even when the target is relatively close.

At last, a police officer admits his plastic Glock is a toy.

As for the head shots, we got a guy on the forum that can do it at 900 meters with his Kimber Desert Eagle in .577 Nitro Express, and he doesn't even have an Aimpoint  on it.  

[Narren]

backwoodsroamer, on 23 March 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

At last, a police officer admits his plastic Glock is a toy.

As for the head shots, we got a guy on the forum that can do it at 900 meters with his Kimber Desert Eagle in .577 Nitro Express, and he doesn't even have an Aimpoint  on it.  

You know...I hated Glocks before being forced to shoot one for 120 hours.  I never thought the day would come, but I now prefer my Glocks over any other handgun.  And for some reason, I'm more accurate at close distance with a 27 than I am a 22.  I think the lack of a pinky forces me to use a better grip.  And they may be plastic, but they are TOUGH.  We dropped one out of a helicopter, onto asphalt, and it works fine.

You have a link for a Kimber Desert Eagle .577?  I've never heard of that combination, and couldn't find it in an admittedly brief googling.

[BrenGun]

mobrigade, on 21 March 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

First off, there are SOME folks on here who have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to weapons.  First off, the AK is very accurate in the hands of anyone who knows how to shoot, I found them very accurate in Iraq.  Second 95% of the AK's in this country are semi-automatic.  Third, these weapons WOULD be plentiful.  The downside is that you have to keep the AR fairly clean or it will have issues.  The AK is by far the most suitable for such fighting because you can throw it in a lake leave it there for a few days, pull it out, kick the bolt open and it will cycle.  I would MUCH prefer these over shotguns or pistols....the sound difference is not even relevant....shotguns are loud, 9mm's are loud, etc...as far as the police station, due to Homeland Security grants nearly every police station in America will have at least one or a few AR's in their lockers.  If These weapons do not just disappear because of an apocalypse, they would be around and some if not most (in the case of the AKs) would be or could be made serviceable....7.62x39 and .223 are some of the most readily available ammo to be found unlike .357 or some of the other goofy pistol ammo calibers...so not the group not having them is just an oversight or "just the way it is" kind of thing with the producers....just my two cents.

Totally agreed with you. I find it a distraction that with both Rick and Shane having been law enforcement that they haven't thought of stuff like this. The AK would be a perfect rifle for anyone in the group to carry. Its as simple as pie to load, keep relatively clean and use and is accurate (more accurate than making headshots with a Glock or shotgun from a wildly speeding car driving over unpaved ground at the farm IN THE DARK!   )
While I know that its tv and not everything is going to be fully realistic (see above...) I'd surely like to see Rick and Shane stop using the word 'clip' to mistakenly refer to a magazine... As LEOs they wouldn't in real life.

[BrenGun]

tex, on 21 March 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

Wow the ignorance in this thread is astounding. Thanks for bringing it back down to earth and saving me the trouble of replying to every factual inaccuracy. And thank you for your service in Iraq.

That said, I'll just leave this here since I already tracked it down - maybe others in this thread can learn something ...

Just came across this in the thread, thank you!

[lastman2012]

Guns guns guns  That's all I hear about in here. If I had the lung power, I'd get a straw and some bb's and peashoot those zombies in the head. The straw would be very portable and I could carry thousands of bb's and not even notice the weight. The kills would be almost totally silent too. Unless I hiccough it would never jam either.

Edited by lastman2012, 23 March 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[tex]

lastman2012, on 23 March 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Guns guns guns  That's all I hear about in here. If I had the lung power, I'd get a straw and some bb's and peashoot those zombies in the head. The straw would be very portable and I could carry thousands of bb's and not even notice the weight. The kills would be almost totally silent too. Unless I hiccough it would never jam either.

Wow thanks for the informative post, shedding new light on the subject, and making us all better for having read your thoughts.

You probably do have enough hot air stored up to kill with a glorified spitwad shooter.

DONT LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER? THEN DONT READ THE THREAD, GENIUS!

[backwoodsroamer]

lastman2012, on 23 March 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Guns guns guns  That's all I hear about in here. If I had the lung power, I'd get a straw and some bb's and peashoot those zombies in the head. The straw would be very portable and I could carry thousands of bb's and not even notice the weight. The kills would be almost totally silent too. Unless I hiccough it would never jam either.

Hey you might be on to something there.  Of course we would have to replace the straw with a steel tube. Maybe conduit?  We would also have to use an air compressor, since you're never going to have enough power from your breath.  It's not portable, but maybe a vehicle mount?  Thanks for the idea!

[lastman2012]

backwoodsroamer, on 25 March 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Hey you might be on to something there.  Of course we would have to replace the straw with a steel tube. Maybe conduit?  We would also have to use an air compressor, since you're never going to have enough power from your breath.  It's not portable, but maybe a vehicle mount?  Thanks for the idea!

No need to thank me, it's what I'm here for (more or less)

[BigEd]

backwoodsroamer, on 25 March 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Hey you might be on to something there.  Of course we would have to replace the straw with a steel tube. Maybe conduit?  We would also have to use an air compressor, since you're never going to have enough power from your breath.  It's not portable, but maybe a vehicle mount?  Thanks for the idea!

I made a very small .375 ball bearing (3/8ths) steel air cannon using a 1/2" qev piloted by a blowgun. (Semi auto if connected to compressor) I have not chrono'd it yet but it goes clean through 3/4 plywood at 100 feet at 80-90 psi. A compressor or regulated CO2 is ideal, but a simple shock pump and 20 pumps later it's good to go. The reason it's .375 calibre because I was given three - 5 gallon buckets of 3/8ths bearings, they had slight imperfections and were going to be recycled. (I'll post a pic soon)

This is a pic of one of my bigger air cannons I use at reenactments.

At a test range the longest shot with a full soda/beer can was a quarter mile @140 psi.

Smaller more portable cannon:

I have several different diameter barrels for it - including a golfball barrel. I have not been able to locate any golfballs fired from it, so I have no clue how far they go.

[lastman2012]

Wow, I had no idea that my smartass comment even had a glimmer of realistic potential. Actually the thought of realistic potential didn't even enter my mind.
   Thanks BigEd for showing that I may not be totally crazy after all. That one that fires lethal golfballs gets my vote though. Major points for awesomeness.

[JaeBoogie]

SkunkWorks, on 21 March 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Raw firepower in this ZA is not a good solution, and usually does more harm than good. It's much better to kill silently, shot on the move, or avoid the Z's totally.

A bat works better than an AK, as crazy as it sounds.

Lol yea right! You tellin me in a ZA, if u had a choice of a bat or an AK...ur gonna choose the bat? Lol have fun with that!!

[JaeBoogie]

etphoto, on 22 March 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Do a little experiment (I find hard to believe that you'll actually do it).  Get a baseball bat and carry it around, everywhere you go.  Everything you do, carry that bat around.  WIthin a two hour period, count the number of times you set the bat down in order to do something (no matter what it is) with you hands.  Carry it around all day, see how tiring and cumbersome it becomes carrying.  Now, get a play holster with a  toy gun and put that on.  Live your day and count the number of times you set the handgun down.  Zero is my guess.  

If a large number of zombies where coming toward my encampment and I was setting up a defensive stance, yes, I'd like to have a long gun.  The accuracy would be helpful since u could start shooting while the zombies might be far off.

My guess thought (just trying to picture the Walking Dead world), most battles wouldn't occur in that manner.  Most battles would occur at much closer distances where accuracy isn't as critical.  The convenience of carrying the handgun plus plenty of ammo while living your day and the fact it has plenty of power to kill a zombie makes it a much preferred weapon.

Not to be a smartass brotha but...have you never heard of a sling before? Dale had one on his rifle! You can take a peice of rope/string an make a makeshift sling, thus eliminating the need to "put the rifle down" whenever u needed to use your hands! You could keep it slung across your chest an ready to fire or throw it over your back....thats why EVERY soldier has a sling on their rifle....

[maximus_pr]

lastman2012, on 23 March 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Guns guns guns  That's all I hear about in here. If I had the lung power, I'd get a straw and some bb's and peashoot those zombies in the head. The straw would be very portable and I could carry thousands of bb's and not even notice the weight. The kills would be almost totally silent too. Unless I hiccough it would never jam either.

yeah but you could swallow the bb's if you fall or something and the real problem is not swallowing them is when the time comes for them to go out specially if the stomach acide has erode them making the porous.

nah i rather carry a tactical rifle and a sidearm  with at least  15 round 14 for the zombies and if after that they still coming the 15 round have my name.

[backwoodsroamer]

BigEd, on 25 March 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

I made a very small .375 ball bearing (3/8ths) steel air cannon using a 1/2" qev piloted by a blowgun. (Semi auto if connected to compressor) I have not chrono'd it yet but it goes clean through 3/4 plywood at 100 feet at 80-90 psi. A compressor or regulated CO2 is ideal, but a simple shock pump and 20 pumps later it's good to go. The reason it's .375 calibre because I was given three - 5 gallon buckets of 3/8ths bearings, they had slight imperfections and were going to be recycled. (I'll post a pic soon)

This is a pic of one of my bigger air cannons I use at reenactments.

At a test range the longest shot with a full soda/beer can was a quarter mile @140 psi.

Smaller more portable cannon:

I have several different diameter barrels for it - including a golfball barrel. I have not been able to locate any golfballs fired from it, so I have no clue how far they go.

Awesome work Big Ed, I salute your ingenuity and skill.

[backwoodsroamer]

lastman2012, on 25 March 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Wow, I had no idea that my smartass comment even had a glimmer of realistic potential. Actually the thought of realistic potential didn't even enter my mind.
   Thanks BigEd for showing that I may not be totally crazy after all. That one that fires lethal golfballs gets my vote though. Major points for awesomeness.

It's a mindset. To a weapons enthusiast a ball bearing, marble, golf ball, or pumpkin is not the ordinary object the majority of the public see. It is a projectile.  If these projectiles are available in quantity, they must be launched. So, with enough projectiles and a fertile mind, the possibilities are endless.    

[DeadCave]

tex, on 21 March 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

In the 5 minutes they had to escape before the building incinerated you would've been rummaging around a MED/SCI labratory looking for huge stockpiles of miltary weapons?

Considering the size of the explosion... no Tex, you get the fuck out of dodge as fast and as far as you can. There's lot more weapons laying about near by or from other soldier's last-stands, i.e. FEMA stations, hospitals, anywhere the National Guard would set up supposed sanctuaries and safe-zones as the plague hit. Since it happened so fast as to overwhelm the military, you'd get a 50/50 chance that they didn't expend every round before succumbing.

Around your defenses you could, if you or someone in your group, knows how to operate a back-hoe, even those small enough to be mounted on a bob-cat would service to dig a trench deep and wide enough to entrap any z's inside. There's other things to do as well with the trench, line the bottom with rebar sharpened and barbed and set in deep in the dirt of the trench to keep any from climbing back out. Those can be disposed of later with spear thrusts to the head.

Question about the "big air cannon" in the photo above... what would you use as ammo, against the z's.
Am thinking you could possibly make home-made flechette rounds with a can that's been split 4 ways length wise and packed full of building nails, so it acts like a shot-gun round when it leaves the barrel. Similar ones were used in Vietnam shot out of 90 to 105mm howitzers when firebases were threatened to be over-run. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette

Edited by DeadCave, 26 March 2012 - 05:42 AM.