[Babs Bladdyblah]

From the life experiences that I've seen, wouldn't Carol be tough as nails by now? Usually, when you learn to take a beating... you learn to give a beating (this could be physically or emotionally). With an abusive husband, and now, with the death of Sophia... I would think Carol would be somewhat hardened, however, she's still coming off as needy and helpless. Every now and then, I'll think she's strong enough that she hasn't completely lost it yet... and she had a lot more reason to lose it than Shane did, but I dunno. I really hope they build more on her character because her present self doesn't mesh.

[mr teaspoon]

I don't have a particular idea of how Carol should develop as a character, but I know she isn't being written as somebody who had her daughter killed.

[Coarse Limely]

Seems like she's trying to be strong but is just lashing out without thinking. If she'd use her mind a little more, she could have handled that issue with Carl mouthing off to her better, and added something to the Rick vs. Shane discussion other than "Daryl, protect me from that evil man!"

[Damon Z]

I don't ever see Carol becoming more then anything other then a train wreck honestly. At this point if she hasn't "toughened up" then she most likely never will. If all she plans on doing from this point on is to try and drive Daryl against Rick, then her ass can be walker chow for all I care. She really pissed me off last night.

Edited by Damon Z, 19 March 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[zedhatch]

Coarse Limely, on 19 March 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Seems like she's trying to be strong but is just lashing out without thinking. If she'd use her mind a little more, she could have handled that issue with Carl mouthing off to her better, and added something to the Rick vs. Shane discussion other than "Daryl, protect me from that evil man!"

This is what I am seeing as well.  

Some people get tough, but some just do exaclty as Carol is, try to pretend to be tough but really you know they are faking it.  Some often even get worse (as I think carol may do, not sure yet).  

Daryl is the other side of that coin, which is I think why the producers are playing them off of each other so much.  

her reaction to Carl I thought was pretty well done though, over sensitiveity is a common reaction to loss.

[Augustana]

Good question. I had high hopes that they would go in the right direction because imo Carol (like Daryl) has so much potential regarding character development. Besides, she is my favorite female character. But with the last episode...it was kind of a let-down. I hate that the writers seem to waste that potential and that all women are rather becoming annoying. I was not impressed by her actions and talk in the finale.  Do we need a 2nd Lori? I would have liked Carol to step up  in that episode (trying to kill a Zombie would have been nice; at least she was stating her opinion albeit the wrong one in my eyes) and for the future, I would like her to become more independent (not clinging to Daryl so much, he doesn't need a ball and chain; concentrating on herself now that she's free of Ed!).

[Lyz]

I think also the writer's are trying to show with Carol she is a very abused woman...think about it...Ed did all the thinking for her and did 'everything' for her. After years of being in that marriage she is a wet noodle...she doesn't know how to think or act by herself...without Sophia she is all by herself nobody to tell her what too do, what/how to think etc. etc.

Maybe in Season 3 she will have to become more of a thinker and a doer or just simply be killed off...or maybe Daryl will become her new 'boss'.

[Babs Bladdyblah]

zedhatch, on 19 March 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

This is what I am seeing as well.  

Some people get tough, but some just do exaclty as Carol is, try to pretend to be tough but really you know they are faking it.  Some often even get worse (as I think carol may do, not sure yet).  

Daryl is the other side of that coin, which is I think why the producers are playing them off of each other so much.  

her reaction to Carl I thought was pretty well done though, over sensitiveity is a common reaction to loss.

Daryl is exactly what I think of when someone is abused. Tough, angry and socially awkward. You may be right about Carol and the loss part. But I remember when Carol took that (I think it was a pick axe) and beat dead Ed's head in with it. That's the built up anger that would be in most abuse victims. I guess no one is exactly alike though. I am sure with the death of Sophia, there are other factors at play here.

[TcH]

I think she's just a broken woman to be honest. Sort of what Lyz said she always got told how to act and had someone to tell her what to do whether that was shutting up or going and washing clothes. And with her daughter being gone she hasnt got anything else in her life that has any meaning. She is just getting by from day to day, surviving.

I don't know how they will try to develop her as a character but i hope they toughener up a little bit and not have her as someone who is for all intense and purpose dragging down the group.

[jenna2008]

I honestly believe the writers have no idea how to form a female character. They are all either black or white. There doesn't seem to be a grey area.
Andrea and  Michonne are 2 of the toughest females alive (yes, I STILL haven't gotten over the knife-sharpening scene) and then you have Lori, Carol, Beth and Patricia who are 4 of the most worthless females alive.
2 kick ass and decapitate.
4 wash clothes and bitch.
But truth be told, my biggest issue is with Maggie (don't get me wrong, I love her) but wasn't she presented in a totally different way when we first 'met' her? Wasn't she the one who rode along on her horse and decapitated the walker who was trying to kill Andrea with a baseball bat?
And then what happens?
She becomes one of the little ladies. Where did her toughness go?
I can just picture the writers in their little room....
Writer 1: Ok, we've already got 1 tough girl (Andrea), don't think it would be wise to have 2 of those.
Writer 2: Definitely. There can only be 1 for now.
Writer 1: Ok, so how do we make her 'softer'?
Writer 2: Well.......hmmmm....I know! Get her to do the laundry with the other girls and make her scream and cry whenever there's something wrong!
Writer 1: BRILLIANT!

Why is there no in-between? Females can still be tough without needing to act like John effin Rambo.....

[Serenity@sea]

Some people are perpetual victims and will never get over it. I've always tried to give Carol the benefit of doubt because she has had such a tragic life. I'm also factoring in PTSD. She is trying to find her voice but since she never really used it, it is hard for her to express her true feelings

Edited by Serenity@sea, 19 March 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[Babs Bladdyblah]

jenna2008, on 19 March 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I honestly believe the writers have no idea how to form a female character. They are all either black or white. There doesn't seem to be a grey area.
Andrea and  Michonne are 2 of the toughest females alive (yes, I STILL haven't gotten over the knife-sharpening scene) and then you have Lori, Carol, Beth and Patricia who are 4 of the most worthless females alive.
2 kick ass and decapitate.
4 wash clothes and bitch.
But truth be told, my biggest issue is with Maggie (don't get me wrong, I love her) but wasn't she presented in a totally different way when we first 'met' her? Wasn't she the one who rode along on her horse and decapitated the walker who was trying to kill Andrea with a baseball bat?
And then what happens?
She becomes one of the little ladies. Where did her toughness go?
I can just picture the writers in their little room....
Writer 1: Ok, we've already got 1 tough girl (Andrea), don't think it would be wise to have 2 of those.
Writer 2: Definitely. There can only be 1 for now.
Writer 1: Ok, so how do we make her 'softer'?
Writer 2: Well.......hmmmm....I know! Get her to do the laundry with the other girls and make her scream and cry whenever there's something wrong!
Writer 1: BRILLIANT!

Why is there no in-between? Females can still be tough without needing to act like John effin Rambo.....

Well, Maggie did grab a shotgun in the finale and say when your country you learn a thing or two, or something to that effect. Maybe Maggie will be the grey area. Tough, but only when she needs to be.

[Shipper]

jenna2008, on 19 March 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

But truth be told, my biggest issue is with Maggie (don't get me wrong, I love her) but wasn't she presented in a totally different way when we first 'met' her? Wasn't she the one who rode along on her horse and decapitated the walker who was trying to kill Andrea with a baseball bat?
And then what happens?
She becomes one of the little ladies. Where did her toughness go?

Why is there no in-between? Females can still be tough without needing to act like John effin Rambo.....

I think Jenna makes some good points here. I can, however, imagine feeling a lot braver when I'm riding a horse and holding a bat, compared to some of the other scenarios Maggie's been in.



I agree with Babs that Maggie is the closest thing the show has to an "in-between" female character. Hopefully her character will develop more in Season 3!

[Leela]

I think Carol is slowly losing her marbles. She made no sense last night, didn't try to fight, left Andrea behind when she could've helped her, had the audacity to lash out at Rick, then tried to get Daryl to leave with her, and when he refused to she tried to turn him against Rick.

Carol is never going to harden up. Now that they'll be in the prison, all cushy and safe, she won't have a reason to. She didn't fight when she was in danger.

She'll probably try to get into Daryl's pants, he'll turn her down, and she'll become zombie chow.

[Number9]

Carol at the end of the ep felt so out of character(from what we've seen in the show), but I'm hoping she gets her crap together.

[zedhatch]

jenna2008, on 19 March 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I honestly believe the writers have no idea how to form a female character. They are all either black or white. There doesn't seem to be a grey area.
Andrea and  Michonne are 2 of the toughest females alive (yes, I STILL haven't gotten over the knife-sharpening scene) and then you have Lori, Carol, Beth and Patricia who are 4 of the most worthless females alive.
2 kick ass and decapitate.
4 wash clothes and bitch.
But truth be told, my biggest issue is with Maggie (don't get me wrong, I love her) but wasn't she presented in a totally different way when we first 'met' her? Wasn't she the one who rode along on her horse and decapitated the walker who was trying to kill Andrea with a baseball bat?
And then what happens?
She becomes one of the little ladies. Where did her toughness go?
I can just picture the writers in their little room....
Writer 1: Ok, we've already got 1 tough girl (Andrea), don't think it would be wise to have 2 of those.
Writer 2: Definitely. There can only be 1 for now.
Writer 1: Ok, so how do we make her 'softer'?
Writer 2: Well.......hmmmm....I know! Get her to do the laundry with the other girls and make her scream and cry whenever there's something wrong!
Writer 1: BRILLIANT!

Why is there no in-between? Females can still be tough without needing to act like John effin Rambo.....

I agree with 90% of what you said, with the exception of Maggie, when she lost it last night I thought it was well deserved as she had just lost her home, she may have lost her sister and her father as well, she had no idea at that point.  Hell I would have lost it too.  I actually like her better in the series so far.  When she lost it on Lori I thought it was VERY well deserved as well, she is one of the few characters that have had emotional outbursts that I thought were well placed.  

but I do agree that most of the time they are clueless on women, Andrea is a perfect example, in order to be tough she has to be bitchy and thus I don't like her in the series (No offence to Lorie holden whom I actually do like and think she could play Andrea well).  In the comic Andrea is tough, but is also a sweetheart which is why she is my favorite character.  She won't take crap from anyone, but doesn't have to be bitchy to prove it, and is very sweet to those she calls friends.  I WISH that is how andrea would become in this series.

[Marcuslloydak]

Maybe when she was trying to drive daryl against rick could signify the start of her deludedness... IF the comic is anything to go by, hope I'm wrong tho!

[Creeper]

Number9, on 19 March 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Carol at the end of the ep felt so out of character(from what we've seen in the show), but I'm hoping she gets her crap together.

I was disappointed in Carol too...sometimes though, I think extreme fear and stress can bring out the worst in people, make them say things they don't mean, make them lash out and try to "control" their situation any way they can, even if they are just running their mouth in random directions. I think she is just really afraid = acts like a dimwit.

[Ananse]

Maybe I am alone in this, but I feel like alot of her actions are completely justified. Maybe she will eventually toughen up...after all, it has only been about 4 months. Realistically, she is the only one there who has lost a child--I'd imagine that would be alot more stressful than losing an adult sibling, or a spouse or a friend. I can't imagine Lori holding it together to well in the event that she lost Carl.

Also....Idk, she didn't seem to be telling Daryl anything that wasn't true?

[Babs Bladdyblah]

Creeper, on 19 March 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

I was disappointed in Carol too...sometimes though, I think extreme fear and stress can bring out the worst in people, make them say things they don't mean, make them lash out and try to "control" their situation any way they can, even if they are just running their mouth in random directions. I think she is just really afraid = acts like a dimwit.

Yes, she was definitely contradictory last night. First she tries to dis Rick to Daryl, then she turns right around and tells Rick to "do something". This could be the road they are taking with Carol, because we all know what happens in the comics. And honestly, this would be more realistic than the whole "threesome marriage thing".

[Creeper]

The stuff I thought was unfair was her telling Daryl that they weren't safe with Rick as the leader(I'm not sure who she would suggest for the job - Daryl doesn't want it) and when she told Rick "do something!" as if he wasn't doing the very best he could! What did she want? Him to go running into the bushes in the dark after a cracked branch noise?

Babs - Oh, please no.  I do NOT want them to got the way of the comics!

Spoiler

Kill her off next season if they must, but I will be so digusted if they turn her into a true looney.  I'm pretty sure the polygamy suggestion will never happen - on the show she hasn't shown the slighest inkling to be that way with the Grimes.

Edited by Creeper, 19 March 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[Carrion Crow]

Lyz, on 19 March 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

I think also the writer's are trying to show with Carol she is a very abused woman...think about it...Ed did all the thinking for her and did 'everything' for her. After years of being in that marriage she is a wet noodle...she doesn't know how to think or act by herself...without Sophia she is all by herself nobody to tell her what too do, what/how to think etc. etc.

Maybe in Season 3 she will have to become more of a thinker and a doer or just simply be killed off...or maybe Daryl will become her new 'boss'.

I agree with you. Carol's been beaten down in her marriage and her child, the one thing that kept her sane, is dead. She's not going to bounce back and become Lara Croft in a few episodes. If you know people like her in real life, you can understand why she's a wet noodle. I expect (or hope at least) to see more development of her character and that they won't take the easy route and sacrifice her to the zombs. No one would care if this milque toast of a Carol died.

Dear writers, at least make us care about her before you off her!

[Babs Bladdyblah]

Creeper, on 19 March 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

The stuff I thought was unfair was her telling Daryl that they weren't safe with Rick as the leader(I'm not sure who she would suggest for the job - Daryl doesn't want it) and when she told Rick "do something!" as if he wasn't doing the very best he could! What did she want? Him to go running into the bushes in the dark after a cracked branch noise?

Babs - Oh, please no.  I do NOT want them to got the way of the comics!

Spoiler

Kill her off next season if they must, but I will be so digusted if they turn her into a true looney.  I'm pretty sure the polygamy suggestion will never happen - on the show she hasn't shown the slighest inkling to be that way with the Grimes.

Well in the comics

Spoiler

after being turned down by two people, she loses it. I could see Daryl turning her down and her going off the deep end.  But I would hate to see Carol off herself. But that's one thing we haven't seen in the show yet. We've heard of people wanting to like Beth, and Jenner talking about people "opting out" but we haven't seen it yet. After the deaths of Shane and Dale... NOTHING would surprise me anymore.

[Creeper]

Babs Bladdyblah, on 19 March 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Well in the comics

Spoiler

after being turned down by two people, she loses it. I could see Daryl turning her down and her going off the deep end.  But I would hate to see Carol off herself. But that's one thing we haven't seen in the show yet. We've heard of people wanting to like Beth, and Jenner talking about people "opting out" but we haven't seen it yet. After the deaths of Shane and Dale... NOTHING would surprise me anymore.

Yeah, it isn't that I couldn't see it happening

Spoiler

it is more that I intensely hope it doesn't go that way.  What a tragedy.  I could see Daryl turning her down too, so I hope if anything ever happens between them, she lets him make the first move.

I know she is physically weak, but I would love if they would show more emotional strength from her, show that there are other forms of strength than just "boom! stab!" out there, rather than have her fall apart in season 3.

[Babs Bladdyblah]

Creeper, on 20 March 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Yeah, it isn't that I couldn't see it happening

Spoiler

it is more that I intensely hope it doesn't go that way.  What a tragedy.  I could see Daryl turning her down too, so I hope if anything ever happens between them, she lets him make the first move.

I know she is physically weak, but I would love if they would show more emotional strength from her, show that there are other forms of strength than just "boom! stab!" out there, rather than have her fall apart in season 3.

I couldn't agree more. If nothing else, maybe she'll spend enough time with Daryl to learn how to be self-sufficient.