[Survivor#125323466]

I know that this topic is based on, i think two episodes ago, i just wanted to bring it up.

Carl, in the episode "Judge, Jury, and the executionor" was really annoying me. First of, let me just start with him mouthing of to Carol, i know she is kind of an outsider to the group but that was sort of uncalled for. Second, he to DARYL'S gun, Daryl is my favorite character of the group, and i (knowing he is a fictional character) wouldn't go around stealing his stuff, and messing with his bike. Then he decides to be the "man" of the group, and go kill a walker in the swamp, then chickens out, leaving only a freed walker, later to kill Dale (my third favorite fictional character) in the episode. What annoys me the most is that  he dosen't tell anyone about the impending dangers of the walker, and it ends up costing Dale his life. I do think Carl redeemed himself in the newest episode "Better Angels" i will not say anything for the people who may have not seen it yet,but it happens at the end. Please leave your thoughts! Don't be afraid to comment Y'all!!

[jun]

Its just like you said.

i belive it was his fault. I don't buy into the whole "it was a matter of time" before other Z came into camp. He was in a situation where he had to make a decision, he let the Z know he was there by throwing rocks at it and thus giving it a reason to break free of the swamp since it knew food was around. If he let it be and went back to camp and warn the others, most likely the Zombie would still be there. Bad decision #1

Then he (Carl) made the decision to shoot it, took too long because he was taunting it. He should of just shot it intead of standing there all like "Look i have i gun, i'm just like my father. Are you scared of me now?" In a sense he was playing with it. Bad decision #2

He didnt tell anyone back at camp that he had Darylls gun or he was off in the woods and saw a walker. The camp could of been on alert knowing there was a walking in close vecinity, knowing this Dale would not of walked out alone at night. He would of been more cautious. Hell, if Daryll needed the gun it wouldn't be where he left it. Bad decision #3

Even if Carl killed Z shane, getting a group member killed is not easily forgiven and i would like to think that if the whole group knew about Carl's little adventure out into the woods, then Lori and Rick would have to answer for why he wasn't on close watch or under the supervision of another group member (Carol)

[SkunkWorks]

Why rag on the kid?

[daenerys]

Carl was just doing what any other boy would have done in the same situation.  It's kind of like a lion cub playing with the half dead kill it's mother brings back.  He's curious, and the walker was immobile so he investigated.  Sure, it can be argued that his actions made the walker break free but I really don't think he can be blamed.  At the end of the day, he's just a kid and he did something stupid.  It's how they learn.

[Nareen]

daenerys, on 16 March 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Carl was just doing what any other boy would have done in the same situation.  It's kind of like a lion cub playing with the half dead kill it's mother brings back.  He's curious, and the walker was immobile so he investigated.  Sure, it can be argued that his actions made the walker break free but I really don't think he can be blamed.  At the end of the day, he's just a kid and he did something stupid.  It's how they learn.

This.

Also, Carl is a child, a kid who has lost every family member, every friend, everyone he has ever known outside his immediate family and Shane to a horrible death. He thought he had lost his father.  He has witnessed these attacks and their aftermath, such as the barn slaughter.  He is a child alone amongst adults who either baby him or expect him to act like an adult. Of course he is troubled and if it has taken this long for him to start acting out, they are lucky.

I don't get all the Carl hate.  Being human, he makes mistakes.  So does every other character.  

Dale was my favourite character and I will miss him, but he has to bear some of the responsibility for his death by blundering around the fields in the dark.  Like Carl and everyone else, he thought the area around the farm was safe, but it wasn't.

[jun]

Nareen, on 16 March 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

This.

Also, Carl is a child, a kid who has lost every family member, every friend, everyone he has ever known outside his immediate family and Shane to a horrible death. He thought he had lost his father.  He has witnessed these attacks and their aftermath, such as the barn slaughter.  He is a child alone amongst adults who either baby him or expect him to act like an adult. Of course he is troubled and if it has taken this long for him to start acting out, they are lucky.

I don't get all the Carl hate.  Being human, he makes mistakes.  So does every other character.  

Dale was my favourite character and I will miss him, but he has to bear some of the responsibility for his death by blundering around the fields in the dark.  Like Carl and everyone else, he thought the area around the farm was safe, but it wasn't.

Carl knew it wasn't safe after his encounter. It was only untill it was too late that he chose to tell Shane.

Its the ZA, he's watched and seen first hand what a walker can do to a living human and watched group members die (mass murder at the first camp site) you'd think he'd of smartened up by now and keep close to the group. Seeing one of his closest friends, sophia, get seperated from the group and turning into a walker should of at least wisened him up a bit.


It annoys me the most is that after all of whats happened, Rick and Lori havn't properly dealt with it. Duane is just a bit older then Carl yet he was smashing heads like a badass, was going to learn to shoot and Rick gave him good advice on handling a gun "A gun is not a toy, you pull the trigger you better mean it", all rick told Carl was he couldnt be there all the time, that he needed to grow up, handed him Darylls gun and that was that. If rick spent more time training and teaching Carl then maybe things wouldn't of turned out the way it did. Don't get me wrong i'm not trying to start an argument or anything... Carl is like the next door neighbours kid that throws rocks at your windows.

Edited by jun, 16 March 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[Rainbowpony]

I don't think Carol is an outsider to the group.  I don't know how the group was formed, but in one episode it shows Lori/Shane and Carol/Ed meeting on the highway, so she's no more an outsider than Lori or Shane would be.

As far as Carl, yes, I do think he's responsible in some part for what happened to Dale, but he's either 10 or 12 (I've seen both ??) which makes him his parent's responsibility, and because of the ZA, I think as a child he is also the responsibility of the group.  I think the implausibility comes in for me in that no one seems to be keeping track of him.  In the last episode, 'Better Angels', Carl gets out of a house unseen and unnoticed that is supposed to be being guarded by 9 adults on red alert.  He then proceeds to make it all the way to where Rick and Shane are, only to take out ZShane with a marksman's shot over his father's shoulder.  If that's how it is, maybe Carl should be leader of the group, because the boy has some amazing skills...

[Mr.Misery]

I don't understand why people hold a kid up the same way as an adult.

[Serenity@sea]

Mr.Misery, on 16 March 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

I don't understand why people hold a kid up the same way as an adult.

Good Point!
When my boys were teenagers, there were days where I wondered if we were going to survive and we didn't have a ZA to deal with.

[babyMOMMAdrama]

Oh boy. This topic has had its guts ripped out over and over again.....


Was Carl to blame for Dale's death? I'd say he played a part in setting up the circumstances, but Dale was a big boy and should have been more aware and alert of his surroundings.

Was he naive, irresponsible, and disobedient? Yes, but aren't all 12 year olds...

You can't blame a kid for being a kid.


I swear all the Carl bashers must have been the most well behaved, mature pre-teens in the history of the human race.

[Lukey]

Dale died because his good friend Frank Darabont was fired so he didn't want to be in the show anymore

[Babs Bladdyblah]

Kids will be kids. Honestly, I think it was about time that they started building his character a bit. Unfortunately, it involved Dale.

[lastman2012]

Carl was just lucky that the swamp walker didn't have a wingman in the area. Seems that they pair up or have small groups when they are just milling around an area looking for a bite.
   I think that Carl was exhibiting a juvenile form of machoism, you know, the old "they think I'm just a kid but I'll show them" when he was taunting the walker stuck in the mud. He should have told someone that there was a walker in the area but he didn't and got an extreme lesson in consequences.
Adolescence is hard enough under "normal" conditions but obviously it is a bit tougher during a zombie apocalypse.

[Damon Z]

I've been reading a lot of Carl hate. Meh, I don't get it. He's as annoying as any other kid his age would be. His parents aren't really keeping up with him all that great either. Lori wants to rag Andrea for not "pulling her weight" and basically not being a post apocalyptic house wife, yet she runs off leaving her son behind in search of Rick without telling anyone. What was she doing when Carl snuck out of the house in the last episode? You leave a kid Carl's age to roam about and do what he wants, they're gonna find trouble. All in all, Carl doesn't bother me. Dale was one of my favorite characters too, but it is what it is.


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[DiabloAzul]

What's the deal with Daryl's gun? He's pissed he cant find it, Rick knows Carl has it but doesn't tell Daryl? Nice.

[RoxasTheNobody93]

I wouldn't say Dale was the most important person in the group as others when it comes down to it are intelligent and fair like him. I think its more important that Shane is dead as now most of the group can agree on things and everyone now has a clear head.

[Nareen]

Has the fact that Carl may well have saved his father’s life been considered?  If Rick had already turned his back, if he was too dazed to react when Shane rose, zombie Shane would have had him.

[jun]

I don't think Shane would of got to rick. Walkers don't spring back to life and jump at you the first second they wake up, as seen with amy and Jenners wife. Rick was already standing over him waiting, besides he probably would have noticed it breathing or moving and shove his knife back into Z Shanes head.

[auximenes]

What Carl did with the walker that eventually got Dale was really stupid. Even if it's something that other kids his age might have done, he's still responsible for the walker getting free. I did some stupid things when I was Carl's age, but there's no way in hell I'd have teased a walker. Carl could have shot it when he had the chance, which also could have turned out bad by giving the wandering horde a beacon. The best thing would have been to go back to the farm and let somebody know that there was a stuck walker so that they could have offed it safely.

[Scott57]

Carl, another reason to hate Lori.

It's ZA time, do you know where your children are?

[jtbeck]

Carl and Lorie can't get eaten fast enough to suit me. Every time Lorie is on screen I quit caring. Carl is obnoxious. He is a child, true - but he's old enough to know you don't go haring off in the woods alone in zombie-world. Doesn't excuse the adults - he should be kept under constant watch. Seems like every episode there's a, "where's Carl?" moment. I swear they keep worse tabs on a kid in a post zombie-apocalypse world than I do on my kids in the mall now.

I know Carl won't get eaten, but you can't blame me for hoping.

[SimonSays]

Sure, he's a kid.  He can make mistakes.  And he's living in a totally different childhood than most of us, being exposed to all this hellish nightmare.  All the more reason to shape him up to be responsible.  This is Z-world now.  There can be no excuses for what he did.  You make mistakes and it will cost other peoples lives, or yours.  Let that incident be a major lesson to him.

[Damon Z]

I understand the Lori hate, but all the Carl hate is crazy. People were hating him before Dale was ever killed. He's a kid, kids do dumb stuff. Unfortunately, what Carl did or didn't do for that matter cost the group Dale. As for Dale's "value" in the group goes, he wasn't the most valuable member, but he was handy and a voice of reason, but certainly not as valuable as someone like Daryl or Andrea in the long run.

[wyrd]

I don't think Dale was the most important member of the group... in his last episode he said that he didn't have a place in this new world, and I think it was the truth.

The season finale also made it clear:

Spoiler

you cannot even afford to have democracy in this new world!

However, I do think that Carl is not responsible for Dale's death: his mother is!!!! She keeps on loosing is child... what is she thinking about???

[cyst]

Kids will be kids? I'm sorry but that is such a cop out excuse. We see Carl showing signs of vast maturity when he stood up to Shane and said leaving Sophia behind is bullshit. Carl even said he'd do the deed himself should they find her turned. He knows what world they live in, he isn't stupid. If he wants to be big bad brave sheriff, then he certainly isn't doing a stellar job at it by hurling rocks and provoking a walker and NOT WARNING ANYONE ABOUT IT. That isn't adult logic, it's common freakin' sense.