[Kikora]

I don't think Carl was, because there was no shift in his composure or his aim when it showed Shane stand up. The scene was shot very awkwardly, but it showed Carl freaked out, and he raised his gun, buts away to show Rick/Shane, and then goes back to him just as upset with the gun where it was before. If he had switched his targets I think some kind of look of revelation would have crossed his face, or some reaction.

[xBewm]

Maybe he initially thought Rick was a walker, since he was hunched over Shane, and drew his gun, and once he figured out he wasn't a walker, he saw Shane start to re-animate.

Just my thought.

[Joey_Mousepad]

First post, so give me a break if i eff up a little.

Now i don't know if Carl was pointing his gun at rick but it certainly seemed that way from ricks POV (obviously because rick is oblivious to shanes reanimation). Also i don't know if this has been said but after Carl shot Shane he smirked and was openly proud of himself so my question is this. Was Carl ready to shoot anybody just to prove his worth to the rest of the group and himself?

[Faith]

So Carl, an inexperienced kid with a gun, not only made a killer shot, but accurately estimated - yes estimated - where Shane would be...after he stood up?

[Coarse Limely]

I agree, Joey. The best way for Carl to "prove himself" would be to think like a member of the group, not like someone who wants to be a hero after screwing up 9-out-of-10 things the group was doing recently.

[Faith]

When I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.  So this is me being wrong about something I wholeheartedly just KNEW I was right about.  Not what I wanted to hear, but it's what I needed to hear for peace on this haha

Executive producer, and showrunner, Glen Mazzara clears this debate up:

Quote

For a moment, Rick obviously thinks that Carl is pointing the gun at him.

Mazzara: That's Rick's perception, but I think that Carl is clearly shooting to protect his father. Rick doesn't know that zombie Shane is over his shoulder, so I do think that Rick has questions of guilt. And Carl is really just a confused little boy at that point.

More: http://www.tvguide.c...ra-1044673.aspx

Edited by Faith, 16 March 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[JaeBoogie]

You guys need to watch it again....

Carl draws his gun an the very next shot is Shane standing fully upright....clearly Carl saw Shane start twitching am struggling to his feet (zombies cant go from laying down to instantly on their feet, they have to roll over, get to their knees then stand up right)

i though it was pretty obvious with the camera angle that they wanted us to think he was pointing it at Rick but he clearly had to of saw zombie shane trying to stand up!

and not to mention Carl didnt know Rick killed him so why would he point the gun at his dad for no reason? Carl does NOT know that everyone reanimates no matter what, so seeing Shane reanimate, carl obviously thought shane got bit!

in the preview for the finally,

Spoiler

Carl asks Rick "what happened? Did u guys get attacked? I didnt see any walkers"

Edited by gracie lou, 16 March 2012 - 01:01 PM.
tags

[JaeBoogie]

Ciren, on 12 March 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

First off, no one is saying they're "sure". Carl pointed the gun at Rick before Shane stood up and Rick approached Carl with his hand out trying to settle Carl down even saying "It's not what it seems" as if he too thought Carl took the situation as Rick killing Shane. Carl was confused and had no clue what was going on so he didn't know if Rick killed him on purpose, for a reason, or if a walker did it. And I'm in no way saying Carl was going to shoot Rick, he just drew it on him out of confusion and being incredibely scared and devestated at the sight of seeing someone he looks up to dead (Shane).

So it's not absurd, and in no way deserving of a "lmao" or smilie. It's an opinion and everyone has a different view and can decipher several aspects of TWD in several different ways.

ok Carl drew his gun an the very next shot was shane standing FULLY UPRIGHT (literally 2 second time span) so you mean to tell me that a zombie can go from laying down to standing upright instantly? No! Clearly a zombie is gonna struggle to get to his feet... watch again and look at how quick it is from the time carl draws to shane standing upright!

there is no reason why carl would point his gun at his dad! If Carl saw Rick kill Shane, then carl woulf know shane was gonna kill him first!

Spoiler

And if carl did see the situation with rick and shane, why the hell would carl ask "what happened? Were u guys attacked?"??

Edited by gracie lou, 16 March 2012 - 01:02 PM.
tags

[JaeBoogie]

Jimmy, on 12 March 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

lol at people saying he wasn't pointing the gun at Rick. He was crying and confused, and his gut reaction was to draw his gun on his dad who clearly just killed Shane. I don't think he would of shot Rick. For those who are saying he wasn't aiming at Rick at all, do you really believe Rick is too stupid to not see where the gun is pointed? You also want us to believe he was aiming the gun at Zombie Shane well before he even stood up? He shot zombie Shane when he eventually saw him coming. I find it too hard believe that someone who never fired a gun before would not only get a perfect head shot but also not fire multiple times.

A little off topic, but did anyone else find it hilarious the way Zombie Shane was walking?

So carl never fired a gun before? Yes he did....he was training with the group and nailed a tin can from quite a distance...he definitley HAS shot before...

And how is it so odd carl can do a perfect headshot when everyone in the group gets a perfect headshot every shot they take!? Unrealistic i know but i mean if everyone on the show has perfect aim, why cant carl too?

[JaeBoogie]

Ciren, on 12 March 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

First off, no one is saying they're "sure". Carl pointed the gun at Rick before Shane stood up and Rick approached Carl with his hand out trying to settle Carl down even saying "It's not what it seems" as if he too thought Carl took the situation as Rick killing Shane. Carl was confused and had no clue what was going on so he didn't know if Rick killed him on purpose, for a reason, or if a walker did it. And I'm in no way saying Carl was going to shoot Rick, he just drew it on him out of confusion and being incredibely scared and devestated at the sight of seeing someone he looks up to dead (Shane).

So it's not absurd, and in no way deserving of a "lmao" or smilie. It's an opinion and everyone has a different view and can decipher several aspects of TWD in several different ways.

Not trying to argue but maybe you should READ before u reply....on the first page, Mr Teaspoon said "he DEFINITLEY was pointing at Rick".....so thats why i said "how are you guys sure? Lmao"

So how can u say "nobody said for sure"...when clearly ppl did...

[auximenes]

auximenes, on 15 March 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

While Rick is his father, Shane has been doing plenty of fathering and there he is, dead by apparently Rick's hands.

Edited for clarity.

[JaeBoogie]

I see alot of you sayin "he pulled it on Rick cuz he thought Rick killed shane" (or somethin like that) but why would Carl 'assume' that Rick killed shane?  It dont make no sense considering Carl didnt know about all of the drama and as far as Carl knew, they were bestfriends! So again, why would Carl assume Rick killed Shane?

if Carl saw the situation, he'd know shane wanted to kill his dad. If he didnt see it, dont you think Carl would more than likely assume shane got bit and not that rick killed his best friend? I know i do!

other than Shane laying there dead, there is nothing that would indicate Rick killed him or give Carl a reason to "assume" rick killed shane..

[JaeBoogie]

If Carl knew all the drama then yea he would assume Rick did it...but the kid was clueless!

I mean think about Carls POV. This is what he knows:

my dad an his best friend went into the woods to look for an escaped prisoner that has a gun, heres my dad standin over his dead best friend crying his eyes out an then shane reanimates...

What happened that would make Carl assume Rick killed shane? (Assuming Carl didnt see the fight)

[OldSkool23]

mr teaspoon, on 12 March 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

No, you're right. I don't know if it's the directors fault or something that happened in editing, but Carl definitely points that gun before Shane moves. And I don't buy that we're supposed to believe he was pointing it at Rick. That whole scene was a mess.

Really?? I totally bought that he was pointing it at his Dad initially. He just saw him stab Shane in the chest and instinctively lines up his dad thinking that his dad had just done something horribly wrong, but then Shane reanimates, gets up and starts  walking towards them and he shoots Shane dead to same them both.  

I didnt see anything wrong with it IMHO.

[auximenes]

JaeBoogie, on 16 March 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

What happened that would make Carl assume Rick killed shane? (Assuming Carl didnt see the fight)

I thought at the time that Carl saw the altercation or at least the end of it. In hindsight, and the beginning of the Season 2 finale where Rick and Carl are walking back to the farm, it does appear that Carl didn't see the fight or the killing blow to Shane.

[babyMOMMAdrama]

I initially thought that Carl saw the fight as well, and drew on Rick out of pure confusion. But after seeing the finale, with Carl asking if they were bit, I definitely agree with everyone saying he WASN'T pointing at Rick. I just think that whole scene was shot and edited really shitty, to confuse this many viewers with arguably the most defining moment of Carl's character (at least so far) is poor work all around.

I get what they were going for now. Carl comes upon Rick crying over Shane's dead body, draws his gun out of instinct thinking Shane had to be bit(and possibly Rick too at that point), as his father walks toward him talking(comfirming he's not a walker) Carl has his gun aimed at the now reanimating Shane, believing that Carl witnessed the whole thing Rick tries to comfort him thinking Carl has the gun on Rick, but really Carl has walker Shane lined up with a perfect "over the other guy's shoulder" head shot. Come on now.

Why not just make Carl able to bend the bullet like in "Wanted"??!? And I'm really not that much of a nitpicker with the show, but that scene could have been done so much better.

Edited by babyMOMMAdrama, 27 March 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[gracie lou]

auximenes, on 27 March 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I thought at the time that Carl saw the altercation or at least the end of it. In hindsight, and the beginning of the Season 2 finale where Rick and Carl are walking back to the farm, it does appear that Carl didn't see the fight or the killing blow to Shane.

Yeah, I think we were supposed to wonder if Carl possibly saw the altercation. I thought it was pretty unnecessary - the scene was dramatic enough, and it just confused people.

[richsac]

Ok so Rick just knifed Shane in the heart and Carl comes along seeing them both on the floor in the dark of night and as soon as he sees his dad get up, he points his gun already not knowing yet that Shane is dead nor i bet he could tell shane has turned into a zombie. And all at the same time not telling his dad to move out of the way or asking any questions what happened.

Now i know the scene was all for the views to shock viewers into jumping out of their seat and saying, "heck no was Carl really that close to shane to shoot his own father for killing shane?". Anyways i really did wanted to slap Carl right then. Yea pretty unrealistic acting but whatever adds tension i guess

[SammyP]

I want to believe he was aiming over Rick's shoulder at reanimating Shane walker, but how did he know he'd been killed, he just saw him lying on the floor I mean he could have just been unconscious and then got up, it must have been too dark to see his features from that distance, surely he would have only been sure once Shane walker started walking and making strange walkery noises?

[ShaneAmour]

I don't know how unrealistic that was if Carl has a temper a bad as my youngest child and he was REALLY PISSED his dad killed his best friend, Shane.  

[BritChick]

I don't think Carl would have any reasons to kill his dad, it was just  filmed with the intentions of making us wonder for a second, if that was happening. Shane was definitely his target, but it made very good drama though .

[TWD2012]

He was not pointing it at rick when we see carl and ricks back you cant see shane and if you watch when we do see shane again he is already almost standing completely up and it would have taken him a second to get up off the ground so when we saw ricks back and couldnt see shane thats when he started moving and carl saw that so he raised his gun.

[Tynerra]

I am afraid this is another debate over an aspect of the show that we viewers may never have complete peace about. But given what the actor who plays Carl has said paired with the quote from the producer that Faith quoted, I...as a viewer...do not believe that it is in Carl's mind to shoot his Dad. I've said before that it is tricky to try and climb inside a character's mind, but given the clarity of the actor and producer who have read/written the script...I'll have to agree that Carl was not going fire the weapon at Rick. Might he have had the gun pointed at Rick for a moment? Maybe. Frankly, the little guy's hand was shaking so hard, I think it's probable that he had it aimed at Rick, Shane and the zombie horde he didn't even know was there!



As for the "choppy" feel to the scene...I think that the reason for that is the fact that according to the cast and crew, they spent almost all night doing take-after-take of that scene. It is probably pieced together from any number of takes. Some of those shots probably 'agreed' with each other better than others...but producers/editors are always looking to balance the technical aspects with the dramatic/acting aspects of the shots. Some shots have the inflections in voice, others have the facial responses while others have the actors hitting all the right marks in frame at the right moments. Only Mazzara can say just how many takes were spliced together to make that scene in the show.

In the end...like beauty, it lies in the eye of the beholder. Thus, four pages worth of debate over whether one thing was happening/going to happen or not.

[Surviving101]

At first , when I didnt see that Shane just reanimated i thought that Carl was pointing the gun at his father but then when Shane started to move it was clear to me that Carl had the intention of killing him .

[NightRelic]

My take on the scene is that we're seeing it from Rick's POV through most of the conversation between Rick and Shane and then after Rick kills Shane. We're still in Rick's POV when Carl arrives on the scene. Rick thinks Carl is pointing the gun at himself, so we do too. We discover when Carl pulls the trigger where the gun is pointed about the same time that Rick does.

The choppiness of the scene isn't about the amount of takes it took to do the scene. It's about making the scene move fast, creating tension, and making the viewer see and experience things as the director and film editor want him to. I didn't think it was sloppy at all. I think it created the right affects in viewer experience for the scene.