[Darryl'sKin]

Alien Angie, well said. Excellent post.

[bilb_o]

Hi,

Long time lurker here. I just had to register for this!

Assuming the spoilers are true I think the Jenner's whisper is something other than everyone being infected. Well everyone is indeed infected as both Randall and Shane comes back. But if Rick knew that would be the case he wouldn't just stab Shane in the chest and then turn his back on him. He would finish it properly (stab in the brains once the man's down ). If he doesn't know that Shane will come back the whisper must have been something else. But what?!

Also if Lori says anthing more than a "thank you" to Shane and a shake of hands, I will burn with hatred against her and will be pissed off every episode she lives

But back on topic, am I misreading this or does spoilers really imply that Rick doesn't know everyone is infected and that the "Whisper" is something else?

Edited by bilb_o, 07 March 2012 - 02:16 PM.

[Zombie in the Field]

Alien Angie, on 06 March 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

5/ As for the attempted rape. Im not going into it. Im a woman, one of my best friends was raped just before Christmas and waited 2 months to tell us. We're still dealing with the aftermath and trying to get her to report it. Anyway...not important...not a nice thing. But I can understand where it came from. He was drunk. Not an excuse, but he was confused. He thought Lori loved him. He loved her and to suddenly find out with no warning, that it meant nothing to her. That he meant nothing to her was crippling for him

I liked your comments and agreed with almost all of them but was hung up on this.  This is the second time that I have seen someone pull up short about discussing rape, which I find intriguing.  First of all, since when has a topic such as this become something we cannot discuss as adults, in a fictional sense? We discuss murder, maiming and attacking one another, cannibalism, the destruction of civilization as a whole, etc... but when we talk about rape we have to be quiet? That's shit, and you all know it.

As I mentioned, this is the second time that a woman has swept Shane's attempted rape under the rug and I find that curious.  I'm glad you are a fan of Shane's... but don't be a fangirl and ignore the fact that he tried to rape another human being that he supposedly loved (and if it wasn't for wolverine like scratches to his face and neck, he wasn't planning on stopping).

The excuse of "he was drunk" is asinine and totally unacceptable.  Drinking too much and acting on feelings that were cultivated out of ridiculous circumstances is insane.  Being "confused" isn't an excuse as well, don't even try to defend him in that way.  I'd love to hear you tell your mother about an attempted rape on you or another female friend and use the defenses "well he was a little too drunk!" or "but wait! he was confused!"

If you like Shane as a character and you enjoy Bernthal's performances... awesome!  But let's not act like we can just wash over one of the most important scenes in his character's development because it is a touchy subject and one, in which, you don't like to criticize your obvious favorite character.  An attempted rape is about as black and white as it comes.  

Let's quickly break it down:
-He finds Lori when she is by herself and in an area in which he controls the doorway.
-He is talking in a way that Lori clearly disagrees with and tells him so immediately.
-He advances on her further pushing his agenda against her constant attempts to stop him.
-He physically touches her which prompts her to swat at his face causing the deep cuts.

Let's call a spade a spade.

[nixar]

I totally agree with you Zombie in the field.

Don't get me wrong, JB surely pulls out the best performance out of the whole cast but the Shane character as it is written in the show doesn't get any free pass from me for everything he has done. And certainly not the attempted rape as he's not protecting anyone at this moment.

[Zombie in the Field]

nixar, on 07 March 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

I totally agree with you Zombie in the field.

Don't get me wrong, JB surely pulls out the best performance out of the whole cast but the Shane character as it is written in the show doesn't get any free pass from me for everything he has done. And certainly not the attempted rape as he's not protecting anyone at this moment.

Glad to hear it!

That's the thing: If you enjoy the writing of Shane's character and the performances of Bernthal... that's a great thing and everyone should have a favorite character.  But blindly looking past a HUGE spike in his character's plot line because we somehow cannot discuss rape?  that's just silly.

A good actor can polarize a crowd in reference to a character... That's a testament to the writers and Bernthal.  But again, there is no other way to interpret attempted rape.  I can easily see arguing about (and frankly, agreeing with) many of the controversial decisions of his character.  But this one... it's about as easy as it comes.  Speaking from a man's perspective with a sound upbringing: You don't ever touch a woman in a way she does not agree with.  No mind-altering substance or misconceptions/confusion ever changes that. Period.

[Faith]

There's already a possible hole in the "Better Angels" spoiler we've all seen about Shane dying... that has been confirmed by Gale Ann Hurd.

Spoiler

Hurd confirmed that Shane (Jon Bernthal) will play a big role in the finale...

http://www.digitalsp...rticle_continue

Which is not "Better Angels," right?  I might have missed something.

According to the TVFanatic's website, there will be

Spoiler

Two more significant deaths this weekend, though...

http://www.tvfanatic...e-walking-dead/

Which would make at least 3 SIGNIFICANT ones between now and the finale, if the Shane spoiler turns out to be true, too.

Is that the way you guys also understand it?

[christhehunter]

Spoiler

Shanes rol in the finale willl be as a walker and them realizing people can come back even if not bitten. He and Randall die and come back at the end of better angels if the spoilers are true

[Faith]

Sorry...  On page 3 of this thread under one of the spoilers, it read like it would all happen in Better Angels, not be split across episodes!  My bad...

[gracie lou]

Zombie in the Field, on 07 March 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Glad to hear it!

That's the thing: If you enjoy the writing of Shane's character and the performances of Bernthal... that's a great thing and everyone should have a favorite character.  But blindly looking past a HUGE spike in his character's plot line because we somehow cannot discuss rape?  that's just silly.

A good actor can polarize a crowd in reference to a character... That's a testament to the writers and Bernthal.  But again, there is no other way to interpret attempted rape.  I can easily see arguing about (and frankly, agreeing with) many of the controversial decisions of his character.  But this one... it's about as easy as it comes.  Speaking from a man's perspective with a sound upbringing: You don't ever touch a woman in a way she does not agree with.  No mind-altering substance or misconceptions/confusion ever changes that. Period.

I think this issue is difficult to discuss because not everyone sees Shane's actions as attempted rape. Sexual assault? Most certainly. Wrong? Definitely. Absolutely. No doubt in my mind. Attempted rape? Unclear.

The first time I watched the scene, when it first aired, I was disgusted, creeped out, and mad at Shane for violating Lori's friendship, and that is how I interpreted Lori's reactions.

The second time I watched it was more recently - well into season two - and I felt fear for Lori and interpreted her reactions as being fearful.

Which one is more accurate? I don't know for sure, and I doubt we can ever say with complete certainty.

For the record, I'm neither a Shane fangirl, nor a hater. I like that they kept the character around longer than in the comics, but I think it is now time for him to die.

[Alien Angie]

Zombie in the Field, on 07 March 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

I liked your comments and agreed with almost all of them but was hung up on this.  This is the second time that I have seen someone pull up short about discussing rape, which I find intriguing.  First of all, since when has a topic such as this become something we cannot discuss as adults, in a fictional sense? We discuss murder, maiming and attacking one another, cannibalism, the destruction of civilization as a whole, etc... but when we talk about rape we have to be quiet? That's shit, and you all know it.

As I mentioned, this is the second time that a woman has swept Shane's attempted rape under the rug and I find that curious.  I'm glad you are a fan of Shane's... but don't be a fangirl and ignore the fact that he tried to rape another human being that he supposedly loved (and if it wasn't for wolverine like scratches to his face and neck, he wasn't planning on stopping).

The excuse of "he was drunk" is asinine and totally unacceptable.  Drinking too much and acting on feelings that were cultivated out of ridiculous circumstances is insane.  Being "confused" isn't an excuse as well, don't even try to defend him in that way.  I'd love to hear you tell your mother about an attempted rape on you or another female friend and use the defenses "well he was a little too drunk!" or "but wait! he was confused!"

If you like Shane as a character and you enjoy Bernthal's performances... awesome!  But let's not act like we can just wash over one of the most important scenes in his character's development because it is a touchy subject and one, in which, you don't like to criticize your obvious favorite character.  An attempted rape is about as black and white as it comes.  

Let's quickly break it down:
-He finds Lori when she is by herself and in an area in which he controls the doorway.
-He is talking in a way that Lori clearly disagrees with and tells him so immediately.
-He advances on her further pushing his agenda against her constant attempts to stop him.
-He physically touches her which prompts her to swat at his face causing the deep cuts.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Ok...Im not a mad gushing fangirl.
But whilst we're calling a spade a spade. Lets call this what it is. ATTEMPTED rape. Yes he uses force against her, but even drunk. When Lori fights back, he stops. If a guy is going to rape a woman, he will. No woman can stop that. I lift weight as a hobby, Im not ripped but I am pretty muscular and very strong. But, if a guy was to attack me. I wouldnt stand a chance!

Shane stopped because he still has a concience.

I mentioned earlier that a friend was raped, I had to sit through her describing every second of it to the police, and trust me. She fought back...

Im sick of all these anti Shane posts. People forget hes a good guy. He was a cop for christs sakes, hes trying to do the right thing. His murder of Otis is eating him alive.

Im not saying hes a saint, Im saying that whist we're all here safe and sound, we like to take a holier than thou attitude and believe that in a crisis. Any crisis, we would turn into He-Man. Look after people, save lives and play by the rules.

But until we are dropped in that utterly hopeless situation, not one of us know how we would react to it. Would I be a Shane? I dont know? But I couldnt be a Dale...if it was down to survival, and it was between me and you, Im going to pick me every time. Just like you would pick you.

TBH I probably prefer Rick, but I agree with Shane's decisions. In war, indecision kills. And they are at war...

Shane is a good guy, who has had to do bad things. To quote Rick from the comics, and its not spoilerific so I wont tag it. "The people who werent able to turn into stone cold killers, are the ones stumbling around out there trying to eat us."

To live in the world they live in, they have to play by different rules, there are no rules. When good people do bad things, theyre still bad things. But he is trying to survive. And you cant blame him for that

[laura2]

Faith, on 07 March 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

There's already a possible hole in the "Better Angels" spoiler we've all seen about Shane dying... that has been confirmed by Gale Ann Hurd.

Spoiler

Hurd confirmed that Shane (Jon Bernthal) will play a big role in the finale...

http://www.digitalsp...rticle_continue

Which is not "Better Angels," right?  I might have missed something.

According to the TVFanatic's website, there will be

Spoiler

Two more significant deaths this weekend, though...

http://www.tvfanatic...e-walking-dead/

Which would make at least 3 SIGNIFICANT ones between now and the finale, if the Shane spoiler turns out to be true, too.

Is that the way you guys also understand it?

I thought he got killed completely in Better Angels too, but maybe I misread. I guess I'm still in denial or something..

[TheLibrarian]

Spoiler

The finale is suppose to have a flashback.

Perhaps this

Spoiler

flashback

has something important to do with Shane.

From my understanding Shane IS killed in better angels. Person has been 100% correct thus far, no reason to doubt her/him now.

Edited by TheLibrarian, 08 March 2012 - 12:23 AM.

[Wazzup4567]

So Dale Randall and Shane die.

Will those be the big three?

[TheLibrarian]

I dunno, I kind of always expected Randall to die someway or another. I think another major character might die and I have no reason why but I'm just having a bad feeling about Carl...

[Faith]

Not from what was reported on that website.  They said two more THIS weekend.  We know Randall is one.  I'm not so sure about the flashback thing.  There probably will be one, but what could it show that we won't see on Better Angels?  It's supposed to be something BIG in the finale, that involves Shane and ends with a cliffhanger.

[Flex]

Hmmmmmm, same blood placement and jacket...

[Faith]

I know what you mean.  There's some things that just aren't adding up for me after reading some articles and listening to interviews.  This "shocking" ending they ate promising...really isn't going to live up to the hype IF it is Shane's death.  Everyoneeee has already heard that rumor.  

Call me crazy, but I think it could be a possibility that a lot of the spoilers and pictures might have been pre-Dale's determined death.  Since he wanted to leave anyway, it's possible that they traded his and Shane's visits with The Reaper.  

Couple examples of fairly RECENt interviews I have seen that have made me scratch my head:  Kirkman said he LIKED the series with Shane in them because he had the opportunity to explore another dimension, one where Shane LIVES.

Another is everyone knows Shane died early in the comics.  It's just the second season, what good would killing him off NOW do that sniping sniping him in season 1 wouldn't have resolved?  Rick didn't need Shane to live in the comics to "wake up" and become awesome.  Basically, nothing profound in that nature has occurred other than Kirkman's enjoyment of Shane's alternate living in the series.  

Another article talked to a producer about hints on the deaths this weekend.  Nothing was said about Shane.  Deaths actually weren't in the answer, but general talk about Rick and Carl, and the dad's interaction with his son was.  

Just some ideas.  I'm stressed.  I'll be glad when it's over this season, I swear lol

[laura2]

Faith, I'm the same way lol. i've been looking at all of these articles/interviews confused how they would kill him off this soon. Especially that Kirkman bit - he mentioned how he liked the idea of him being around when they reach the prison. But once those spoilers came out (and that photo) i was mortified...

Im not prepared for his death at all even though its been rumored for like a month now   i just don't want him to go...and don't think he should. Plus like you said, there are a lot of things that just don't add up.  But then there's the photo so...i have no idea.

It's possible they shot two alternate endings to fool people, (like LOST did) - i find it so weird that they would be that careless as to post 'Shane's last episode' on their website, a part of me thought that was to fool us.

I guess we'll find out Sunday, still got a bad feeling im speculating too much - i dont want to get my hopes up that he might live because the odds look crappy atm.

[Faith]

Yes!  It's just driving me insane, really lol. It's CRAZY.  Bernthal did an on the air interview today or yesterday, and seemed really happy and upbeat, taking questions from callers and talking in-depth about the live triangle.  He even clarified, for me anyway, that his character really hadnt looked at Lori before the ZA.  (I thought they might have had a thang). He's also going to be at Scarefest this year.  BUT that's not even until September, and he chose that as "one of his limited appearances.".  He said just last month that he LOVES playing the "roguish survivor."  he doesn't sound like a man that just got written out of a story he loves - in November 2011, when they finished filming, at least not to me.

[Faith]

Love*

[Faith]

What would truly be shocking to everyone, at this point, is if he didn't die.  I'm fine with that.  There are so, so many spoilers on this...almost everywhere online, anywhere you look...Twitter and FB even.  Then AMC does it, too.  Just seems like they WANT everyone to either know what's going down....or at least think it.  I still think it's a really good theory that some of those spoilers, and photos, are from an alternate ending or before Dale wanted written out.  That also would fall back to the replaced scene of the cast member vs. Cow last episode.  The photo we see on this thread is Shane, zombified, at night.  Dale died at night, and if that cast member was supposed to be Shane, it stands to reason it would also have been night.  

The anticipation and suspicion is KILLING me!!!

[Sahmbie]

You guys crack me up!  I love Shane's character too and only started exploring spoilers when I was convinced he was a zombie in the preview that got cut off in my dvr recording, haha.  After watching the entire preview on my computer, I realized it was definitely not him, but too little too late because I had already looked at the darn spoilers!  Regardless, you all have been doing homework & it's given me a little hope that we may have been played.  At least I'll be uncertain until the moment it happens...and will also be able to brace myself if it does.  I could hardly recover for hours after the dale kill

[hemmymomma]

[/color][color=#4B4B4B]Well of course, they want you to stay tuned. All shows do that. I'm glad I came across this site, because we'll be at Disney World so I was going to miss this next episode, which sounds like a whopper. I can't wait to get home and watch it. [/color][color=#4B4B4B]

It's funny you say this because I will also be at Disney word that day missing The walking Dead ! ( its going to be a bitter sweet day ! )

[Alien Angie]

Zombie in the Field, on 07 March 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

You don't ever touch a woman in a way she does not agree with.  No mind-altering substance or misconceptions/confusion ever changes that. Period.

Thats your moral standpoint (thank god) but there are plenty of guys out there who dont think that way. ive been in a club, more than a little drunk. Dancing with drunk guys when try to cop a feel (and more...) and dont usually take no for an answer right away!

The point of the matter is he stopped. It doesnt matter how much she fought back. If he WAS going to rape her, it wouldnt have mattered how much she fought

[Azrael]

Here is the darker pic with some editing done so you can see it better.

Spoiler