[Bug]

Another arrival at the Hilltop Colony reveals information about the leader of a hostile new group of savages.  A party searches for Alden and Luke.

 

[Shape430]

Eh I'm still not convinced by the whisperers, it's a cool idea but they just seem too dumb to be an actual believable threat. Last episode they slowly shambled towards a guy with a crossbow, this episode they all walk up to the main gates of a large community, with their "leader" in the front. Not too bright. Tbh they kinda remind me of the cannibals, dangerous when they're facade is going, but once they're exposed they're just way out of their league. We'll see

 

Oh and speaking of their "leader", shes probably the least threatening looking villain we've ever had. Heck I think Gareth was more threatening looking then her, and that's saying something lol. She just looks ridiculous imo.

 

Also Tara honestly just really makes me miss Maggy. I've always liked Tara as a character for the most part, but she's just not convincing as a "leader". Though it might just be because we don't get to see enough of her. As the new leader of hilltop, where these past few episodes have been taking place, she really doesn't get a lot of screen time. So maybe my opinion will change once we see more of her in the role. Or maybe it's just because I'm still annoyed Maggy's departure was off screen  . Eh...

 

But other then those complaints I thought the episode was pretty good. I enjoyed the scenes between Henry, Daryl and Lydia. I also enjoyed the backstory bits we got on the whisperers, even if I'm still not convinced by them as a villain. Oh and of course the best part of it all, no Negan or Judith! 

[kombat]

We'll see

 

 

Yep. You will definitely see.

 

They have a shock value, but their real danger comes in their ability to control herds, which we've already seen.

[kombat]

I gave it a good. I'll have to rewatch. The dvr missed the first 6 minutes, and there were skips here and there.

 

I really liked the scenes with Daryl and Lydia. The background scenes of her and her mom were a good start but I want to see more.

[xpoc454]

I gave it a fair. I also liked the Lydia scenes.   

But the stupidity of her boyfriend new-carl, wow.

She has been in the hilltop for a day and in jail from a hostile group.

Lets let her out, show her hill top and turn our back.  Bleah.

At least the hinted that darryl was babysitting him.

 

Also, the new group going out in the dark by themselves.  Even they realized it was stupid.

 

Im assuming alpha has more of a plan in the next episode. Cause if she kills her hostages right there 20 feet from hilltop, i dont think she will make it far.  

[Partyof5]

Gah! We're back to epic amounts of stupid decisions in order to move the plot forward.  

 

- Henry begins to give away the location of the other communities to a girl who just a day or two before was part of a group that killed Jesus, and tried to kill others in their group.  She also lied numerous times already.  It's another one of those "how are still alive 6 years later?" moments.

- Then Henry tops that by letting her out of her cell to go for a stroll around Hilltop.  That almost got him a hammer to the skull. 

- Newbies who somehow also made it this far decide to go out alone at night to look for their friend.  They already know there are not only walkers out there, but killers, so hey let's walk around with flashlights.  To top that off they decide it's a fine idea to spit up. 

 

These, plus spending too much time on a backstory leads this to a poor.  Big drop off from last week.  I get the need to explain the Whisperers story, but there was too much off it.  

[Nareen]

Though I have a number of complaints about this episode, overall it was OK.

 

I am enjoying Daryl this season – he is engaging again and it’s good to see him to more than mutter and mope.  His interactions with Lydia and Henry were interesting, as was Lydia’s story.  Her backstory revealed her mother as still another psycho, almost from the beginning. But I did enjoy the reminder of how it must have been as the world fell apart early in the ZA – the hunkering down with family and strangers, the fear, panic and hysteria, the growling, gunfire and screaming in the street outside.

 

However, this episode could be subtitled “Stupid People”, at least in relation to Henry, Yumiko, Magna, Connie and Kelly.

 

Ezekiel did Henry no service in raising him to be so blindly idealistic, which in their world equates dumb.  Henry is not thinking with his brain but still….

 

Yumiko etc. could star in something called “How to Delete Yourself from the Gene Pool”. Why do people go out searching at night, when they can’t see signs of the missing or danger or anything else?  Why do they flash lights around, as if they were trying to attract trouble?  Why do they split up while one of them has a meltdown out in the woods?  It’s a wonder they survived this long. 

 

I agree that it was stupid last week for those Whisperers to approach a guy with a crossbow who was clearly on to them. And equally dumb this week for Alpha and her group to stand exposed in front of Hilltop.  After what happened to Jesus, she couldn’t be sure that these people she doesn’t know wouldn’t kill all of them before she could produce her hostages.  How did she know they had her daughter?  Though the earlier graveyard scenes were eerie, in the light of day I don’t find the mother particularly scary, just revolting.  Her group has a unique way of manipulating herds, but other people can manage that too.

 

I am aware that Yumiko, Magna etc. are comic characters but they are unnecessary IMO.   They are likeable and interesting enough but I would rather see more of Carol, Ezekiel, Jerry, Tara, Aaron, Eugene, Rosita, Gabriel and so on. 

 

Another plus – no Negan.

 

As time goes on, I feel the lack of closure with Maggie more.  What would it have taken to film one goodbye scene, even a flashback?   Maggie says goodbye to Jesus and Tara, maybe explaining that though she can’t kill Negan, she can’t live with him around, so she has to leave.

[kombat]

As time goes on, I feel the lack of closure with Maggie more.  What would it have taken to film one goodbye scene, even a flashback?   Maggie says goodbye to Jesus and Tara, maybe explaining that though she can’t kill Negan, she can’t live with him around, so she has to leave.

 

I agree. With all the good that Kang has done this season, that she didn't give a character like Maggie a proper goodbye is puzzling. I know they want to leave the door open for a return, but that shouldn't in anyway preclude them from showing her saying goodbye and outlining her reasons for leaving.

[ZedHead]

I honestly really enjoyed this episode. I loved the flashbacks, they were some of the earliest shots that we've seen on this show. The initial part of a zombie apocolypse is my favorite so it was nice to see that again.

 

I bet Daryl refuses to give Lydia back just because of what her mom has done to her. I thought it was funny how to one redshirt dude from Magna's group isn't a part of any decision. Like they approached the camp with him originally and he isn't even seen with the rest of his people

 

A couple ideas for why Alpha just approaches Hilltop:

1) She could be pulling a whole Dark Knight scene where the two kidnapped guys are actually in the walker masks. That could prevent the Hilltop from just mowing them down. 

2) Maybe the Whisperer's don't realize that the Hilltop group still has ammo/guns. I think everytime that the good guys have been seen, it's been with basic weapons. 

[Aolain]

I liked this one, especially the way they are handling Daryl.

The Whispers have kind of a Mad Max feel, nit ridiculous, but coming close.

Tara is a dead woman.

Henry must die.

Magnate et al are stone cold stupid.

Love the new, post Gimple, feel.

[remmdog]

At first I really wasn't sure about the way they told Lydia's story.  I thought about it more and actually like it a lot.  To me, it seemed she was telling partial truths of what she remembered.  The initial tail involved an asshole dad, then it was a comforting mother with the song, then it changed to a comforting father with the song and tattoo, then it was a shaved mother who was lethal and willing to do anything including killing her dad.  The framing of how Daryl brought her to see the truth of her past and show her that Alpha is pretty much a psycho appeals to Daryl's origin.  Then Lydia stating that they don't have to worry about Alpha since they never stick around for one person... to have her mother show up at the door will be a bit of an eye opener to Lydia.  

 

I think Daryl will end up siding with Lydia and apposed to most of the Hilltop next episode.  Henry character still stinks vs the Carl comic storyline, especially without the "eye".  

 

The walk up at the end was great.

 

This season has been must watch for me and i actually look forward to Sunday nights again.  

[Nareen]

At first I really wasn't sure about the way they told Lydia's story.  I thought about it more and actually like it a lot.  To me, it seemed she was telling partial truths of what she remembered.  The initial tail involved an asshole dad, then it was a comforting mother with the song, then it changed to a comforting father with the song and tattoo, then it was a shaved mother who was lethal and willing to do anything including killing her dad.  The framing of how Daryl brought her to see the truth of her past and show her that Alpha is pretty much a psycho appeals to Daryl's origin.  Then Lydia stating that they don't have to worry about Alpha since they never stick around for one person... to have her mother show up at the door will be a bit of an eye opener to Lydia.  

 

Yes, I forgot to mention that I liked the way that Lydia remembered the events of the flashback differently each time  -  the tattoo and the song moving from one parent to the other, the mother's hair and the father's beard going back and forth in length, different people killing different people and so on. 

 

Now that she has remembered what we assume to be the truth, I wonder if Lydia will feel differently about her mother.  Will she want to return to her?  Given that the Whisperers are fruitcakes, will Hilltop force her to return or keep he against her mother's will?  

[remmdog]

Now that she has remembered what we assume to be the truth, I wonder if Lydia will feel differently about her mother.  Will she want to return to her?  Given that the Whisperers are fruitcakes, will Hilltop force her to return or keep he against her mother's will?  

 

I think the actress for Lydia has done a great job so far of reflecting her conflict about the Hilltop and what her mother has done to her.  As far fetched as it was, the hammer grab for escape until hearing the child was fantastic.  Everything her mother has told her seems to be a lie to "protect" her on top of the abuse.  She even believes her mother would walk away without coming for her.  I look forward to the interaction with Daryl and Lydia. 

[Deadpelican]

Really liked the episode.  I keep saying it because it's worth saying: Angela Kang is a far better show runner than Scott Gimple. I think the whisperers are really disturbing, more than they were in the comic, for some reason. 

 

I like the back story on Alpha as well.   And Samanta Morton plays her with a certain coldness that is a little unnerving. 

 

Coldness has been established as a defining feature of the group through Lydia's story.   Lydia was talking about how if someone dies or disappears, it's like they never existed.  Though she wasn't completely right- Alpha still seems to care about her daughter. 

 

Anyway, they established the whisperers by telling us just enough,  but also left me wanting to know more. So yeah. Thumbs up.

 

As for Henry taking on Carl's story arc from  the comic well... doesn't bother me because I was never much of  Carl fan to begin with, not in the comic nor the show. 

[Bug]

I love, love, love that Kang has people watching and posting again. The writing is better, but I wasn't thrilled with this episode. It lacked something that I can't put my finger on. Maybe after the other episodes I expected too much.

[naossano]

I love the flashback, but i think we are given too much informations too early.

Better leave something to discover later on.

[Mr. NomNom]

Really liked the episode. I keep saying it because it's worth saying: Angela Kang is a far better show runner than Scott Gimple. I think the whisperers are really disturbing, more than they were in the comic, for some reason.

I like the back story on Alpha as well. And Samanta Morton plays her with a certain coldness that is a little unnerving.

Coldness has been established as a defining feature of the group through Lydia's story. Lydia was talking about how if someone dies or disappears, it's like they never existed. Though she wasn't completely right- Alpha still seems to care about her daughter.

Anyway, they established the whisperers by telling us just enough, but also left me wanting to know more. So yeah. Thumbs up.

As for Henry taking on Carl's story arc from the comic well... doesn't bother me because I was never much of Carl fan to begin with, not in the comic nor the show.

I think seeing it from comic to real life is a difference. In a comic you're more like well these people are whack. In television it's just scary knowing something like this could happen.

They are barbaric they kill everyone and they don't care or value human life. Knowing one day you're fighting a corpse then all of a sudden people blend in. You don't know what's what.

Then find out how they are. Scary stuff.

[Deadpelican]

I think seeing it from comic to real life is a difference. In a comic you're more like well these people are whack. In television it's just scary knowing something like this could happen.

 

 

Yes exactly. 

 

In the comic I dunno... they were just a bunch of weirdos.  I didn't find them all that frightening.     I didn't even expect for them to evolve into a major threat.  They seemed nuts, but not really very threatening. When we first got introduced to them in the comic, I thought Kirkman was just introducing another community into the mix that was just very very weird. 

 

Spoiler

Later on in the comic they evolve into a bigger threat I know

 

The live action whisperers come across as  potentially dangerous though. 

[Mr. NomNom]

Yes exactly.

In the comic I dunno... they were just a bunch of weirdos. I didn't find them all that frightening. I didn't even expect for them to evolve into a major threat. They seemed nuts, but not really very threatening. When we first got introduced to them in the comic, I thought Kirkman was just introducing another community into the mix that was just very very weird.

Spoiler

Later on in the comic they evolve into a bigger threat I know

The live action whisperers come across as potentially dangerous though.

With gimple I feel it would have been very bad/cheesy. Storylines may have been terrible and this would have dragged out for 3 seasons.

Kang is a better fit. I feel bad gimple destroyed it before she got her chance to shine. Ratings aren't great. However, for the first time in 3 yrs. I'm invested again.

Don't get me wrong i wish Henry was better written and the stories done a little different however it's nice.

[Stan]

I thought it was good. A lot of positives which I hope don't disappoint a la Governor in a few episodes. A few nitpicks too, which kept it off excellent.

 

Positives: the Stockholm child and her memories, although I do think it would take a LOT more to break through Mom's programming over the past 6 years. It was fun to watch the dynamic play out. Lydia's hammer hold and Henry's naivete would have been a stupid and lethal thing...except I realized after they came back that Daryl was aware and tracking the whole time. He's a smart guy, to find a way through her defenses like that. My gripe really is in the ease with which they got her to face up to the reality that she could recall at that age. There are SO many defense mechanisms built into that sort of abuse over such a long period of time.

 

Tara handling the compound is definitely full of foresight, seeing the group leave and sending a team to watch and retrieve them by morning. I'd be tempted to say that they lead the whisperers back, but they were way too comfortable walking around in the open like that, they scouted and knew how to approach Hilltop already.

 

We'll get a partial showdown next episode I guess. Lydia's biggest error was assuming Mom wouldn't come for her. Serious underestimation on everyone's part if anyone else believed that. Of course, in terms of Lydia's potential relapse with Mom and the circumstances, Hilltop ABSOLUTELY has to hands down walk away from this, or her Mom's reality is just proven again. As we aren't at that part of the season, I'm guessing we don't get that.Given what we know of the whisperers, there's no reason to believe they won't attempt to destroy Hilltop anyways no matter whether or not Lydia was handed over. I hope Tara and Daryl act as they should next episode.

 

Enjoying it enough- it's not super real anymore still, but it's good tv again, and I'm happy to stick around and see what happens next.

[BitBrit]

I rated this episode good.

I thought the flashbacks worked well. I have to say I didn't notice half of what is described above in them, but still found them effective.

Tara has good leadership potential, I liked how she handled the escapees.

Samantha Morton is a great actress and I look forward to seeing more of the whisperers despite how creepy they are. I have a lot of unanswered questions as to how they genuinely live amongst the dead.

[Jgreenwood]

Kind of a slower episode but still good.

 

Enjoyed the reveal of the big bad at the end. Cool entrance.

 

As said before Daryl is doing well this season. 

 

I get the feeling Lydia will be making a turn soon and betraying poor gullible Henry.

[UnlimitedAmmo]

Way more questions about the Whisperers.  Still not sure how they work.

 

Seems more contrived than zombies

[cornjob]

Just watched this one. The changing flashbacks were great. I appreciate a show that demands that level of attention to detail from the audience.

The newcomers night scouting was poor judgement. I could beleive it if the always relied on the Muggle for common sense and leadership. But it doesn’t seem as though that had been his role in the group.

I don’t have a lot of comments about this episode. But the thread on this one is pretty sparse. I thought with the improved writing interest would grow. But it’s seeming like the show is just going to peter out maybe.