[Bug]

Maggie's plans for Negan

 

[Aolain]

Hrmmm....

Don’t know what to think. I imagine e4 is best watched in tandem with e5.

If this is way Rick goes I am surprised. If this is curtains, I would have thought Rick would have gone down like the Greeks at Thermopylae; battling to the death on Kolonus Hill.

[Deadpelican]

If nothing else, I will say that Angela Kang is an improvement over Scott Gimple.  Gimple was more true to the graphic novel than any show runner thus far, which I personally thought was a mistake. I'm mainly talking about the way Negan was depicted  A goofball sadist for a villain is something that might be okay for a comic, but I don't think it was a good idea in a TV show 

 

The post-war Negan of the TV show seems to be taking a very different direction than the one in the comic. 

 

I thought the decision to spare Negan was pretty absurd in the comic, but the way everybody just sort of went along with it was even sillier. 

 

The show is more believable in that it depicts blowback for Rick's decision, as it should. Also I don't remember people having scores to settle with the Saviors in the comic. We are seeing this in the show, which I think is more believable.

 

On the whole I think I like where this is going. 

[Shape430]

Voted fair.

 

It wasn't a terrible episode but lots of little things bothered me about it which brought down my score as a whole.

 

The whole bit with the Saviors at the camp really bothered me. Why would Carol and the rest just LET the Saviors, who are mostly armed with melee weapons, walk so close? One guy has a gun, ONE, and Carol and her whole group are all armed with guns. Make them BACK UP. Letting the group of Saviors with almost no ranged capabilities get so close to Carol and horse girl was not exactly what id call smart. Also  isn't this the third time this dude with the gun " don't even remember his name" has done something like this? Why is he still walking around free or even alive for that matter? 

 

Then we come to garbage lady, the woman who has betrayed Rick and co like 20 times. Is it really a surprise she betrayed them again? I don't really care that she was seriously trying to have a change of heart, she should have been in similar accommodations as Negan, or at least exiled after all the crap she pulled and people she got killed. Letting her freely into the group like nothing ever happened was again, not smart.

 

Also Jesus is really starting to bother me, it seems his only role now is to go behind Maggie's back and tattle on her when she goes off to do something he doesn't agree with. If I was Maggie I'd stop trusting this guy so much. I think Maggie is completely justified in what shes gonna try to do, as were Oceanside. Negan and those Saviors were terrible people who did terrible things to them. In the ZA there's only one way to deal with people like that.

 

As for the rest of the episode, it was decent. I really doubt Rick is gonna die next episode. I don't think they'd have his death left on a cliffhanger like this, nor do I think they'd have him go out in such a way. Honestly at this point if Rick does indeed end up dying, Id like his death to come at the hands of Negan. Maybe he gets freed by the very Saviors Rick is so intent on protecting. Then Michonne can be the one to kill Negan, finally realizing their terrible mistake as she does.

 

Doubt this will actually happen...but eh. One can hope.

[xpoc454]

I feel that we are going to have an entire episode where Rick sees his life flash before him.  He is going to start hallucinating about stuff while the horde is moving in.  He may get some time while the horse grabs the horde's attention and gets eaten.  

Now hopefully someone comes up and saves him and he wanders off in the sunset.  Not just being eaten alive while in gaga land

 

The carol situation was odd,  I thought I seen a couple more saviors with a gun which they didn't explain.

Carol probably should have shot him as the savior with the gun makes a point of cocking his gun during the stand off. 

[kombat]

I thought of Col. Troutman in First Blood as the end of this.

 

Here lies Rick Grimes. Survivor of countless hordes of walkers and human antagonists. Killed by being thrown from his horse.

 

I guess it's a good option. Given the situations he has gotten himself out of, being killed by something so random seems appropriate for some reason.

 

I voted good. Not as good as first 3 episodes, but not poor either.

 

Daryl talked more in that pit than he has in all episodes since Season 3 combined. In addition to what Kang is doing with Negan, I also like that she is giving Daryl something to do, which Gimple never figured out how to do.

[Jgreenwood]

Episode was pretty good. 

 

I imagine Rick will be saved at the last minute and whisked away somewhere. It's hard for me to imagine them letting him die skewered on a spike and eaten alive by zombies after all he's been through. It just seems a little underwhelming.

 

The hole was very conveniently placed though.

[Jgreenwood]

Hrmmm....

Don’t know what to think. I imagine e4 is best watched in tandem with e5.

If this is way Rick goes I am surprised. If this is curtains, I would have thought Rick would have gone down like the Greeks at Thermopylae; battling to the death on Kolonus Hill.

 

Maybe Rick will roll under the rock?

[bully8]

This felt like the everybody-makes-up-with-Rick episode.  If he goes out like this, I guess everybody will be inspired to save the bridge because it meant so much to Rick?  An analogy to Carl's death?

 

It's hard to imagine the show without Rick and Maggie.  If the Saviors come out from under Alexandria's direct control, is Michonne the one that unifies this mess under a new system of laws?  Is she the one that can convince Oceanside to make peace with the Saviors (where Rick obviously failed)?  That, and be a mommy to Judith, and also go out and kill zombies during the night because she's addicted to the adrenaline rush?  Michonne is developing so many personalities that the character is starting to not be believable.

 

This season has been good compared to the past couple of seasons, but it's hard to image how we don't go back to everybody vs. the Saviors once Rick is gone.

[Stan]

I voted Good, it was a tough call, I was close to Fair, but overall the tone of everything and all the other recent episodes tying into this helped it over the hump.

 

Good: Maggie being who she is and faithful to her needs and the needs of the future. Michonne suffering from a form of ptsd regarding the bat and her inability to just live versus go out and fight.

 

Bad: Rick/ Daryl fight and roll into the pit. Just kinda silly to roll into a 15 foot plus deep pit and suddenly have to work together to escape. They go from trust to no trust as quickly as the Rick/ Shane dynamic. Although it's good to see the Saviors figure out who was killing them and declare war, it was silly to all expose themselves to range fire in order to converse about it. Monologues are bad for combat. Michonne going for Negan's psyche games, surely there's some kind of education out there about people like him from the before times? C'Mon! Also, the Rick leads them separation so we can have an ending to the character next episode? Daryl has a LOUD vehicle which is more predictable when surrounded by dead...I think they both knew he should have lead them off. Of course, that would have left Rick free to go to Alexandria to stop Maggie and taken Daryl out of the equation at the same time, so I guess that doesn't work for the script.

 

Rick's final episodes are being well publicized, so at least I don't have to worry about TOO much of a dumpster gate here, but that was all I thought of at the pull back ending of this episode. I can guess how next week goes down, but I'd rather wait and watch.

 

Jadis/ Preacher thingy just doesn't engage me, so I let it be.

 

Also, we see a LOT of walker feasting on victim scenes...where are all the loose people coming from? How many free range people are within the boundaries of our communities and completely unnoticed by anyone?

 

Anyways, I'm gonna wait and see how next week pans out before worrying overly. The previews do look promising.

[gilbert]

I actually thought this was a very good/excellent episode.  Only reason, the hour went by in like 10 min, if I'm watching the clock while watching the show, it's lost me, this time I was surprised it ended, so to me thats a good sign.

 

I thought of Rick on the horse with the walkers - back to 1st season, Rick on a horse with the walkers - next episode (which I probably won't get to watch until I come back to town later in the week) life flashes before his eyes - we see Carl, Herschel, Shane, probably Lori, maybe Glen and Abraham.  Then I think he will be rescued, taken away, maybe by Frankie and co? Whisperers?  Leave the character alive or dead, open to bring him back either Andrew Lincoln if his film career takes awhile, or a recast, someone that resembles but may have no memory of Rick and co.....so basically a new character who is Rick.

 

Throwing out ideas that can work

[GirlsDeadMonster]

I'm glad the bromance wasn't completely killed. I thought for a second there that Darryl would bite it. I'm not sure what to think, the whole Anne thing is confusing, Maggie still trying to get revenge even after learning this new string of violence was because she excuted Gregory, and Negan wanting to see his bat so badly. I really don't know what to think anymore.

[naossano]

I almost laughable about how Rick is going down. They might even top Coral's death here...

 

Kind of disapointed about the Maggie vs Negan that goes to nowhere within the episode.

[Deadheads]

Rick falling off a horse was kinda lame.. but better then Daryl killing him in a fight. I did like the f bomb that was dropped in the pit..

I wonder what Glenn would say to Maggie about Negan. She knew him pretty good. Glenn didn't kill anyone until he found out he had a baby. Then Negan had to go. but now his is in jail. I think Glenn would of been ok with it. unless he killed Maggie.. instead..

[mosher]

I had to vote fair because I was really pulled out of the story with Michonne engaging Negan in any way.

Perhaps that isn't fair, but I think she's smarter than that, and a lot of time was devoted to it.

I like the Jadis/Gabriel side issue, because it's a legitimate mystery, something the show was lacking.
Sure she should have been exiled or executed or imprisoned, but she wasn't. So given that I am liking how that story is progressing.

The Saviors wanting to take out Oceanside is appropriate, although the person who for some odd reason is in charge has proven time and again that he's incredibly stupid. Which makes that story fail a bit. And why did Carol even put her gun down? They had the guns and the numbers and the inclination. The Saviors would have been slaughtered. I doubt they were, because TWD has always been awful at showing things go down the way the odds would indicate. But maybe they were. They should be. Handled better, it would be more compelling.

I like Maggie and Daryl going behind Rick to get to Negan. They don't want to fight Rick, and they know Rick won't fight them once it's over. I do think there should have been a scene where Maggie specifically tell sRick what she wants and why, though. Because she would have tried that first. I don't mind Daryl fighting Rick and then working together. I have brothers. It isn't weird at all to be fighting and then cooperating right away. It wasn't a fight to the death, it was two people who love each other having a fight. I was never worried about their relationship.

Jesus irritates me because his skill set is rarely used, so all we really have is a snitch.
It's good to have a character like that, Jesus wants everybody to live and forgive. That's fine. But I don't believe his cowardly behavior. Tell Maggie how you feel, and tell Maggie that you can't stand aside. Don't sneak around like that.

Does Rick die here? I doubt it. There's a horse that will be frightened, loud, and thrashing. Definitely a goner- buying Rick time. Rick might die because of his wound, though. I expect him to die in the midseason finale- that's where I'd kill him if I was running the show. Assuming he dies and doesn't just leave. (without Judith and Michonne? They'd have to leave as well, or die. So I do believe Rick dies.)

In fairness to the show and to all those who say only Carl could have kept the intent of the show going- I do believe Judith can. In Rick's mind Judith is family- the very family he wants to build a world for. That's why we have so many montages of Rick, Michonne, and Judith playing. The show wants to make that clear to the audience that Rick's story goes on through them. It's being wedged in a bit obviously, like the 'Negan is redeemable nonsense. But it rings true, and frankly should have been in the last season as well. And add to that everyone who got him here- Daryl, Carol, Michonne, Maggie.

Negan crying over his bat was good for me. Not because it humanizes Negan, but because it reinforces how enamored with brutality and cruelty he is and how irredeemable he should be. I am holding out hope that TWD recognizes that Negan really should go, or at least should never be a 'good' guy.

[Zpoc]

Well, at least now we know it was walker blood on Michonne's arm as she secretly goes out to sharpen her skills at night.

 

I'm guessing Maggie saves Rick from the rock as the hoard of walkers will probably go after the horse first   I'm not sad to see Rick go actually...  He has become tiring to me as a character.  I'm ready for others to finally take the lead and maybe we can make this story really flourish.  I haven't lost all hope that this series can be revived for a little while longer - it's already better than the last 2 seasons.

[gilbert]

What I fail to understand is when people going to talk to Negan, why talk about what is happening or what the world should be, yadda, yadda, yadda

Pick Negans brain on how he came to power, what he did before the apocalypse happened, see what makes Negan tick.....no wander Negan gets mad in his cell, people are preaching to him....that’s a waste of breath, I want to know Negans REAL back story

[Nareen]

Despite some absurd coincidences and such, I liked this episode for the characterizations and interactions.

 

IMO the scenes between Rick and Daryl were great.  They disagree strongly about the course Rick has taken them all on without it destroying their strong relationship.  Rick finally admitted what everyone knew: that he was pursuing Carl’s dream not only because it was the right thing but also so that his son didn’t die in vain, so that he doesn’t have to let Carl go.  But Carl did die, foolishly, for nothing, as many people do.  It’s natural that his parents would want to memorialize him by realizing his vision of the future; the trouble is that they were imposing that dream on diverse groups of people who weren’t able to live it.  Rick’s despair at the realization that the dream was more of a fantasy, that everyone didn’t buy into it, was sad and well acted. 

 

Another tear in the dream: Michonne is obviously having trouble living it even as she embraces it.  Not that it’s a bad thing to keep her zombie slaying skills honed.  I don’t get why Michonne would engage with Negan and tell him personal stuff  - was it a desperate attempt to get him to eat? The Lector/Starling scene vibe was strong.  Perhaps the writers just wanted a Negan scene with someone other than Rick.  I laughed about the bat. Interesting that Michonne considers Rick’s kids hers, natural enough and probably important going forward.

 

So there was an actual plot to enable Maggie to get to Negan, involving Daryl, Diane and Rachel and maybe others.  I wonder how Maggie will feel about Jesus’ betrayal.  Somehow I suspect she will either fail or decide not to kill Negan, unfortunately.

 

I liked the Carol and Rick discussion, which was a goodbye if ever I saw one, and full of feeling both underlying and spoken aloud.    It wasn’t surprising that the Saviors would come back and attack but you’d think that someone would have thought of that and increased their vigilance. Carol should have shot Jed before he got close to her; the Saviors had only a couple of firearms.   I didn’t like the way the camera lingered on Jerry. Either he plays a pivotal role in the fight or he dies, or both.  What happened to Rachel who was riding the horse that Rick later rode?

 

So is Jadis as nutty as ever or is there some method to her madness?  What is it with this ritualized offering of prisoners to walkers?  Will we ever find out or is she gone for good?  Sad for Gabriel that he set his heart on this rather conflicted woman.

 

LOL at the convenient  pit near where Daryl stopped his bike, placed so that he and Rick could fall into it and be forced to talk it out and help one another. 

 

LOL that Rick never once woke up while Michonne was out zombie slaying.  What if she has died out there? 

 

Convenient that Rachel’s horse, which ran from the fight at the camp, found Rick and Daryl.  Nice of the horse to stand waiting while the walker horde approached, until Rick was finished talking and ready to mount.  Nicer of it to wait around after Rick was impaled, this time while herds approached from two sides.  

 

I wish TWD had taken this turn for the better two years ago, before the interminable and bloody All Out War in which a few weeks took two entire seasons.  I suspect it's too late for me as a fan.

[Nareen]

Forgot to say that on TD, Jeffrey Dean Morgan praised the direction TWD is taking this season, and more or less implied that the last couple of years had been less than stellar and that his character was part of the problem

Edited to add that on TD, Jeffrey Dean Morgan praised the direction TWD is taking this season, more or less implied that the last couple of years had been less than stellar and that his character was part of the problem

[Bug]

Maybe it's just me not ready to let go of Rick, but I didn't enjoy this episode. I will grant that the writing this season is superior to 6, 7 and 8, but little things bugged me with this episode. Still it wasn't near enough for me to call it poor.

Am I the only one finding Jesus annoying? He's awfully self righteous for the man that knew Rick's group was not going to kill all of The Saviors when taking out the satellite station. I am not convinced he didn't know. He did know Negan's reputation for revenge, but didn't give them this vital bit of info.

Frankly had Negan told me that he wasn't hungry, I'd have taken his lunch and left. Act like a child, be treated like a child. I get that with Carl dead someone has to talk to Negan, but I doubt it should be Michonne. I might have accepted Enid.

As for Negan dying, I don't have a problem with it.

It was mildly humorous though when Rachel talked at the walkie talkie. Been there, done that.

[naossano]

It was mildly humorous though when Rachel talked at the walkie talkie. Been there, done that.

 

 I didn't recognize that it was an already introduced character. I was like *Damn, Rick should really hire a better radio operator...* Turn out she is one of the Oceansiders. Sure Rick, there were much better options to protect Negan...

[Deadpelican]

 

Am I the only one finding Jesus annoying?  

 

I always thought Jesus was miscast. The guy who plays him is kind of  wimpy looking to me.  He looks like a pretty boy who grew a beard to look rugged  but he doesn't look rugged at all. 

[Nareen]

 I didn't recognize that it was an already introduced character. I was like *Damn, Rick should really hire a better radio operator...* Turn out she is one of the Oceansiders. Sure Rick, there were much better options to protect Negan...

 

 

I think I was wrong about that character's name but wasn't she an Oceansider who was present when Arat was killed?

 

Rock had no idea that the Ocesnsiders were picking off the Saviors until Daryl told him. 

[mosher]

I think I was wrong about that character's name but wasn't she an Oceansider who was present when Arat was killed?
 
Rock had no idea that the Ocesnsiders were picking off the Saviors until Daryl told him.

you were right. I also didn't recognize her, So when you said that I looked it up. Definitely the same kid. Great job for a kid, but not sure how safe the relay stations are. I assume they're between towns, since they are relay stations. Was she alone? If she was alone, it's a terrible job for a kid.

[naossano]

I think I was wrong about that character's name but wasn't she an Oceansider who was present when Arat was killed?

 

Rock had no idea that the Ocesnsiders were picking off the Saviors until Daryl told him. 

 

Well, the character was a bit prominent during the one episode Tara met the community for the first time, and then she has been an extra for three seasons. I've totally forgotten about her, but after checking on the wikia, turns out she never really disapeared. She just barely had any lines.