[Bug]

[Aolain]

I voted good. I am glad the “silent Charlie” issue is resolved. I liked the 1sthalf better than the 2nd. It had a horror feel, and IMO FTWD does best with that feel.

[Jamber]

voted good, would a been higher but i don't like the forgiveness aspect to it .... charlie was directly responsible for alycia losing her family === i'd like to think most wouldn't forgive that -- i would a outright killed her or at least get her get eaten

 

i also wonder if the writers of this episode have strong family life? how do u even sit in a car with the murderer of your family and smile?

 

to me, seems like some PC bull$##t msg of some sort -- thinking of my own family, that situation, sickening there would be no smiling/forgiveness for charlie .. actually gets me mad lol

 

my only hope, neither of these 2 characters, don't get much scenes together anymore, otherwise prob lose my viewership later on

 

how bad this season's ratings are, they've made alot of mistakes with the story this season imho, turning away viewers more than anything, sad to think i might be 1 of them :/

[mosher]

While I would certainly have difficulty trusting Charlie, and would naturally harbor a lot of anger, I nevertheless feel it is a unique perspective that one would want to kill a child. Her background isn't in question, so the circumstances of Charlie's actions are clear. I don't believe it is implausible that, even after the traumas they have suffered, that a person could ultimately forgive Charlie. 

 

[xpoc454]

I voted good. I did not however like how they just kinda gave up on everyone else. Didn't seem to leave a note or anything.

Seems this season may just be episodes of each group worrying about the storm. I hope not.

[kombat]

I gave it an Excellent. The acting was superb. We've seen Debnam-Carey have great performances before, and the girl playing Charlie I thought was great as well. When they were trapped in the basement, both of them nailed it.

[Nareen]

I enjoyed this episode and thought it was well done.  Both of the performances were excellent and I liked the emotional development of both characters.  There was enough action and it was fun how the storm without reflected the emotional storms inside the house.

 

I like these character based stories.  I liked how Alicia went from wanting to kill Charlie to using her, then tolerating her, then trying to save her and in the end accepting the child, without necessarily forgiving her, all this as Alicia came to realize that she herself was really not much different and that Charlie felt that same grief, pain and guilt that Alicia did..  I was interesting and moving to see Charlie almost succumb to her pain and then gradually come to understand that she wanted to live despite the burden she would carry henceforth.  It seemed to me that in the end Alicia saw that, having lived for revenge and as a predator after the stadium fell, she was really no better than Charlie  but was not as bad as she had imagined since she couldn't kill a child.   With the others all having conveniently disappeared, Alicia and Charlie are all each other has, for now.

 

Otherwise me the episode did seem a bit contrived in places, as in the impaled walker conveniently within Charlie's reach, when the house collapsed just after Alicia and Charlie went into the cellar, and then the deus ex machina moment in which the impaled walker fell onto the chained door and broke it open.  But I'll forgive all that for a good story.

 

About Charlie: to me she is a damaged child who seems to have somehow survived seeing her parents become zombies and maybe try to eat her. She transferred her loyalty to the people who took her in and even bonded with at least Mel and Ellis.  For her new family she spied upon other groups, giving the Vultures useful but not lethally damaging information.  At that point, what were Madison and the others to Charlie compared to her new family?  That all changed when Ellis actually attacked the stadium, causing the death of almost everyone there.  Then. for revenge, Nick killed Charlie's foster father Ennis, and for revenge, Charlie killed Nick.  I suspect Alicia and the rest would have killed the child as they did Mel if Morgan hadn't taken her away.   I think that Madison, who must have seen a lot of troubled children in her career, would have forgiven Charlie. 

[Stan]

I thought it was Good. A good character driven story delivered by great actresses in a mediocre setting. I didn't really work well personally with the forgiveness thing- to fast and too soon with Alicia (although the lead in of wanted her to live with what she had done was good). It struck me that Alicia couldn't kill her out of revenge but wanted to, then couldn't let Charlie kill herself because she didn't want Charlie to die. Not because of wanting her to live with anything or faith in her or redemption or whatever...but just because she couldn't let her die. That was a good side of Alicia to show.

Thank God they toned down the flying walkers for this one.

I thought the basement scene was a bit too much, trapped people and animals fight harder than that to survive, even if they don't believe they want to live.

The rescue was contrived a la TWD rescues from the past, so I don't care too much about that. It got them out, and they did learn to respect what was in life even if it's gone. I tend towards thinking ANY walker interaction in that sort of weather is contrived, it's not like they can pick up stimulus to respond to in a howling storm and minimal visibility. All the other movement and noise should have pulled them from the window they were banging on a long time ago.

Question...what state are they in now? Is it Texas? I've kinda lost where we've progressed after the huge time leap with unexplained character changes, etc.

Alicia's character is better now than she was in the first few years of the series, almost likable to me.

[Aolain]

Thinking about this episode, the following questions came to me:

 

1) Alicia is maturing as a character. Is she the "New Madison?"

 

2) Charlie no longer seems like a side character. Is she the "New Carl?"

 

3) Will June put on her big girl panties and decide one way or the other if she will stick with John?

 

4) Why is Luciana on this show? What is her function?

 

5) I think Morgan's "I wanna go see Rick again" shtick is simply to keep viewers.

 

6) Will John, June, Alicia, and Charlie form a new "core family group?"

[Shape430]

It was better then last episode, mainly because it focused on my opinion the best character left in this show, Alicia. Really enjoyed her and her great acting this episode.

 

Still there was a ton I didn't like about this episode, the first would be how ridiculous and inconsistent that storm was. First off it ripping walkers into the air like they're paper was the silliest thing I've ever seen lol, pretty sure nothing other then a tornado would be capable of doing that. Also one moment its doing that and the next Alicia and Charlie, who are significantly lighter, walk out into it like its just a rainstorm lol. It was honestly pretty ridiculous.

 

Oh and of course the whole forgiving Charlie thing. I don't care that shes a child, she shouldn't get a full pass from Alicia for murdering the only 2 family she had left in this world. No sane person would forgive someone for that. Also as another poster pointed out it really bothered me how not only did she forgive her, but sat in the car smiling with her trying to make HER feel better about her loss...lol. it was just very unbelievable and odd to watch honestly. Oh and I don't think Madison would have been so forgiving of Charlie, remember this was the woman who would do ANYTHING for her children, it's why she became as brutal as she was in season 3, going so far as to murder people in cold blood and without warning. There's no way she would have just let Charlie off the hook after killing Nick like that.

 

And I'm not saying Alicia should have just shot Charlie in the head (though I wouldn't have minded), but letting the zombie chow on her or forcing her to go off on her way would have at least made a bit more sense imo.

 

Overall the episode was much better then last weeks, though I hope we aren't gonna see 3 more episodes of the other "members" of the group dealing with the storm. The best I can hope for now is Morgan gets sucked up into the storm like those walkers and is never seen again, that'd be an improvement at least.

[mosher]

I forgot to add my review.

I rated this excellent. It might be my favorite episode of the series. For me, these apocalyptic stories are at their best when the characters are at their best. This episode had excellent acting, and the girl who plays Charlie MUST be kept, because she can really act. Their emotional journeys were thoroughly believable and naturally progressive.

The show had dumb moments. I hate flying zombies, for example. And the show robbed it's story of a better narrative. Charlie saving Alicia is too convenient and should have been avoided. Make the journey as difficult as it should be. Thankfully they had Alicia emotionally brutalize Charlie. It was hard to watch, but it restored the emotional journey that I was afraid they were trying to skip.

 

The way they gave up in the basement was a tiny bit irksome, but if I were to trim the episode down to length, their exhaustive effort at survival would be a cut I'd make. I took it as a given they tried. I looked over the issue for the character payoff.

The walker dropping on the door didn't bother me at all. Normally I hate convenience like that, but they acknowledge that it was a lucky fluke which helped mitigate that for me. I don't like that escape, I'd rather Charlie have panicked wanting to live and Alicia feeding off that panic as they perhaps even bust up their arms successfully forcing their way out.

But again, I watch for the dramatic performances and the exploration of what it mean to be human that the best apocalyptic fiction provides. And the character work in this episode delivered.

For me, this episode was excellent. Not structurally perfect by any means, but emotionally and philosophically bang on. And for me, that's much more important.

[Nareen]

Forgiveness is not really the word I would use in the Alicia-Charlie relationship.  I think that Alicia recognized that part of the load of pain she herself is carrying is guilt over things that she did after the stadium fell.  Remember when Alicia, Nick, Stand and Luciana duped Morgan, John and Al and took them prisoner? They were almost unrecognizable. Who else did they attack?   IMO Alicia has realized that she and Charlie are not so different and seems to want to put the past behind them and make a new start.  

 

I don't know if even the old Madison would have killed a child, which is about the lowest thing a human being can do, but the new Madison had forgiven Charlie for her so-called betrayal and wanted to salvage her.  We'll never know she would have felt after Nick's death.   Alicia seemed to believe that her mother would not want her to kill the child.

 

For the record, Charlie didn't kill Nick in cold blood. She's not Negan.   She did it right after he had brutally killed her foster father - probably in pretty hot blood and for the same reasons that Nick killed Ennis.  Not that Ennis didn't deserve it.  

 

Anyway, Frank Dillane killed Nick.

[mosher]

 
Anyway, Frank Dillane killed Nick.

Absolutely true. Good point. And honestly, in doing so, Frank's decision have us this good story line and possibly have that kid a good job. She's been great.

[naossano]

I guess they passed the bechdel test on this one...

 

I liked the dynamic between the characters, but i think they've ovedone it with the smile in the end.

They aren't friends. They are just people, which is a limited ressource at that point.