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What Has The Show Gotten Right?


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#1
thelastpaul

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More than ever, people (including myself) seem to be very unhappy with the show and the differences between it and the comic. 

I thought it would be nice to go over things that the show has done differently than the comics over the years that have been great. 

In no particular order:

1:  The introduction of Daryl. Despite my hatred for his character now, I thought he was great in the first 3 seasons of the show. Definitely a great overall addition and clearly one of the most popular characters in the history of the lore now.

2:  Shanes storyline being dragged out further than just a few episodes. What a great way to build up everything leading to Rick killing him, which was much more emotional than what we got in the comics. 

3:  Hershell essentially taking Dales place. I thought it was great to have Hershel take over the "moral compass" role. He did it in a much more effective manner and was overall a better actor.  Plus he could still kick ass when he needed to.  Dale just felt really annoying throughout his tenure with the show. I wasn't sad to see him go. 

4:  Shane killing Otis. Wow, that was such a great storyline at the time and provided endless hours of debate on the moral merits of his deed. One of the best moments in the entire series history imo. 

5:  Carol turning into a survivor.  This has been one of the great differences between the show and the comic. Whereas Carol was some weak young mom who ultimately folded under the pressure of this world, she's turned into a badass complex character that we've all come to love and respect. 

6:  The addition of Bob.  Despite some rocky writing for him initially I liked what they did with his character and felt that he was a solid supporting member of the cast. I wasn't heartbroken when he died but I didn't hate his character or anything like that, so good work I say! 

7:  The expansion of the Hunter storyline.  In the comics it was a much smaller scale event. The show chose to deviate and make it a much more grand scale operation, and I think they completely succeeded. It gave us the great escape scenes as well as a horrific general atmosphere of a large scale cannibal operation. 

8:  Jenner and the CDC.  I thought this was great for the first season. It was a cool way to briefly touch upon how the zombie virus works, and really showing that this situation seems to be hopeless. 

9:  The introduction of Tara. I like her character and am happy they paired her up with Glenn initially. They showed that she's a good, loyal, likeable person and built to be a part of our group. Another great B list character like Bob. Even though she hasn't had a ton to do, I still enjoy her and am happy she's fleshed out. 

 

That's all I can think of for now, so if anyone else has other stories or characters that they liked much better in the show than in the comic, go ahead and post it. Disagree with mine? Tell me why.  

 


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#2
mosher

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I agree on every point save two.

Bob was more than okay, Bob was a great character. His backstory vignette was perfect. 

And although I loved the expanded Hunter arc a lot, I wish they had kept everything the same except that they were cannibals. I have never been remotely convinced that that made any sense at all, and it was a cartoon idea in a show that was usually above that. Nevertheless, I loved everything they did with it.

And I'm glad you posted this, because there's simply never been any truth that veering from the comics is bad.

I hate the tiger and Negan's cartoon depiction, for two examples. Toning down the Governor made him better as well.


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#3
theglassintheguvseye

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More than ever, people (including myself) seem to be very unhappy with the show and the differences between it and the comic. 

I thought it would be nice to go over things that the show has done differently than the comics over the years that have been great. 

In no particular order:

1:  The introduction of Daryl. Despite my hatred for his character now, I thought he was great in the first 3 seasons of the show. Definitely a great overall addition and clearly one of the most popular characters in the history of the lore now.

2:  Shanes storyline being dragged out further than just a few episodes. What a great way to build up everything leading to Rick killing him, which was much more emotional than what we got in the comics. 

3:  Hershell essentially taking Dales place. I thought it was great to have Hershel take over the "moral compass" role. He did it in a much more effective manner and was overall a better actor.  Plus he could still kick ass when he needed to.  Dale just felt really annoying throughout his tenure with the show. I wasn't sad to see him go. 

4:  Shane killing Otis. Wow, that was such a great storyline at the time and provided endless hours of debate on the moral merits of his deed. One of the best moments in the entire series history imo. 

5:  Carol turning into a survivor.  This has been one of the great differences between the show and the comic. Whereas Carol was some weak young mom who ultimately folded under the pressure of this world, she's turned into a badass complex character that we've all come to love and respect. 

6:  The addition of Bob.  Despite some rocky writing for him initially I liked what they did with his character and felt that he was a solid supporting member of the cast. I wasn't heartbroken when he died but I didn't hate his character or anything like that, so good work I say! 

7:  The expansion of the Hunter storyline.  In the comics it was a much smaller scale event. The show chose to deviate and make it a much more grand scale operation, and I think they completely succeeded. It gave us the great escape scenes as well as a horrific general atmosphere of a large scale cannibal operation. 

8:  Jenner and the CDC.  I thought this was great for the first season. It was a cool way to briefly touch upon how the zombie virus works, and really showing that this situation seems to be hopeless. 

9:  The introduction of Tara. I like her character and am happy they paired her up with Glenn initially. They showed that she's a good, loyal, likeable person and built to be a part of our group. Another great B list character like Bob. Even though she hasn't had a ton to do, I still enjoy her and am happy she's fleshed out. 

 

That's all I can think of for now, so if anyone else has other stories or characters that they liked much better in the show than in the comic, go ahead and post it. Disagree with mine? Tell me why.  

Great post but I've never read the comics.  I disagree about Shane.  I hated him from the first episode in the car belittling women.  I loved Herschel and thought Dale overdid the humanity bit.  Herschel was perfection.  I loved Bob and hated to see him have Dale's comic ending.  He was flawed, as we all are but he was a good man.  I hate that they killed Merle (yes, I know he wasn't in the comics) and feel the same as you about Daryl.  So, that's my meager contribution but wanted to say that this is one of your best posts I've read.


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#4
mosher

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I didn't think he said Shane was a good man, but if he did that's not what I liked. I liked the Shane story line a lot, but I was never ever team Shane.


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#5
theglassintheguvseye

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I didn't think he said Shane was a good man, but if he did that's not what I liked. I liked the Shane story line a lot, but I was never ever team Shane.

I didn't mean to imply that and you know that I know you were never team Shane.  I liked parts of it.  The Otis moral dilemma mentioned being one of them but really, I couldn't stand the sight of him.  Great actor but a terrible person on the show.


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#6
kombat

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I'd for sure add Sophia and the barn, still to this day for me the signature moment of the series.


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#7
mosher

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I didn't mean to imply that and you know that I know you were never team Shane.  I liked parts of it.  The Otis moral dilemma mentioned being one of them but really, I couldn't stand the sight of him.  Great actor but a terrible person on the show.

I know you know that I know you knew that.  :)

Clarifying for everyone.


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#8
Jgreenwood

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The names of the characters are almost all the same as the comics....


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#9
kombat

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 I disagree about Shane.  I hated him from the first episode in the car belittling women. 

 

Really? He said women can't turn off a light switch. smh


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#10
Nareen

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Really? He said women can't turn off a light switch. smh

 

 

I too disliked Shane from his first scene in which he said something like "Every pair of boobs I give a key to......"

 

Then during the next episode in which he appeared, he manipulated Lori out of putting up some sort of sign on the highway to deter people from going into Atlanta.  It was clear to me by then what kind of man Shane was.  I did enjoy his arc and expanding it was a good idea but I wasn't sorry when he died. 

 

There was a reason people followed Rick and not Shane.  


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#11
naossano

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Better or great in a different way

- Shane arc

- The saviors

- The CDC

- Merle

- The Hospital with cops.

- Morgan & Carol even if they sometime go overboard.

 

Things that the show screwed up.

- The whole Grimes family.

- Prison arc

- Woodbury and the governor

- Micchone, especially early appearance. But the character is still inconsistent.

- The ellipse after Carl loses his eye and Rick his girlfriend, then get a new one. (still shocked)

- Rosita in s7. There is nothing remotely believable in her arc. Not an action, not a word, not a gesture...


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#12
kombat

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I too disliked Shane from his first scene in which he said something like "Every pair of boobs I give a key to......"

 

Then during the next episode in which he appeared, he manipulated Lori out of putting up some sort of sign on the highway to deter people from going into Atlanta.  It was clear to me by then what kind of man Shane was.  I did enjoy his arc and expanding it was a good idea but I wasn't sorry when he died. 

 

There was a reason people followed Rick and not Shane.  

 

Well, I hate to break this to you, but that's how young single guys talk when they're "with the guys", and that's exactly what that scene was. He did other things to make him unlikable, which I'm not arguing. This is only about the one scene that was brought up.


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#13
kombat

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This is a good thread (my derailment notwithstanding). Many, including me sometimes, think the show is at its worst when it deviates from the comic, but this thread does show that it does work sometimes, and such broad statements, as they almost always are in anything in life, are untrue.


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#14
Deadpelican

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Agree with everything except Shane. 

 

In the comic, I thought the suddenness and the circumstances of his demise to be more shocking.

 

I didn't see it coming so quickly.

 

By contrast, in season two it became pretty obvious that Shane wasn't going to last the season and the escalating tensions would eventually  lead to Rick killing him.  

 

As for Daryl, it's the same problem with any character who starts out as a prick but later becomes a good guy.  He becomes so damn good that's it's downright ridiculous. 


Edited by Deadpelican, 21 March 2017 - 05:37 PM.

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#15
Nareen

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Well, I hate to break this to you, but that's how young single guys talk when they're "with the guys", and that's exactly what that scene was. He did other things to make him unlikable, which I'm not arguing. This is only about the one scene that was brought up.

 

Well, both Rick and Shane were in their mid-thirties, not exactly very young, but I take your point. The difference is that I don't have to hear what the men I know think and say about women amongst themselves, so I can continue to respect them. ;)   Shane was a case of arrested development anyway, never having matured past his high school days of glory and in adulthood outshone by his once less popular friend. 

 

It was really the next episodes that cemented my bad impression of Shane: his manipulation of Lori made it clear he didn't give a shit about anybody else, as did his refusal to support a rescue mission into Atlanta for Andrea, Glenn and the rest.  He beat Ed to a pulp in a fit of temper because he knew he could get away with it, not because Ed deserved it.  By the time Shane tried to rape Lori, my opinion was formed.

 

But I liked his story: an ordinary guy with nothing and nobody in his own life that he cared about when the ZA happened, so he latched onto another man's family to keep going.  When Rick reappeared and Shane lost that, he had nothing.  And so his decline began. There were probably lots of people like Shane; probably some of them, those that survived, became the Governor's henchmen, Claimers and Saviors.   It was obvious that one of the two men, Rick and Shane, would live and one would die, and pretty obvious which was which, but I still enjoyed the journey.


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#16
theglassintheguvseye

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Really? He said women can't turn off a light switch. smh

 

Well, I hate to break this to you, but that's how young single guys talk when they're "with the guys", and that's exactly what that scene was. He did other things to make him unlikable, which I'm not arguing. This is only about the one scene that was brought up.

Juvenile BOYS talk like that. Real men do not.  


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#17
cornjob

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Well, both Rick and Shane were in their mid-thirties, not exactly very young, but I take your point. The difference is that I don't have to hear what the men I know think and say about women amongst themselves, so I can continue to respect them. ;)   Shane was a case of arrested development anyway, never having matured past his high school days of glory and in adulthood outshone by his once less popular friend. 

 

It was really the next episodes that cemented my bad impression of Shane: his manipulation of Lori made it clear he didn't give a shit about anybody else, as did his refusal to support a rescue mission into Atlanta for Andrea, Glenn and the rest.  He beat Ed to a pulp in a fit of temper because he knew he could get away with it, not because Ed deserved it.  By the time Shane tried to rape Lori, my opinion was formed.

 

But I liked his story: an ordinary guy with nothing and nobody in his own life that he cared about when the ZA happened, so he latched onto another man's family to keep going.  When Rick reappeared and Shane lost that, he had nothing.  And so his decline began. There were probably lots of people like Shane; probably some of them, those that survived, became the Governor's henchmen, Claimers and Saviors.   It was obvious that one of the two men, Rick and Shane, would live and one would die, and pretty obvious which was which, but I still enjoyed the journey.

 

Shane and Glen could have had similar paths. I think Shane is a great foil for Glen, and what a decent good man he was (Glen). Glen had nothing when the ZA happened either, but he found it. The same could have been true for Shane, too (not with Lori, but there were opportunities). 


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#18
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Really? He said women can't turn off a light switch. smh


I don't know if he's right about it being all women but my husband nags me all the time about leaving all the lights on.
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#19
mosher

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Shane was mentally ill, something I imagine would be very common in an apocalypse.

Rationally he could have been happy, if he could have accepted the value he had and how incredibly important he was to everyone's survival, while accepting that his obsessions were unhealthy and impossible to achieve, he might be alive now. Perhaps with Andrea, perhaps even off somewhere in Morales land.

That's why his character was so compelling. I don't think he was just generally an arrogant self-absorbed ass. He was insecure and lost within the only role he excelled (in his mind)- popular boy. It didn't suit him as an adult, and the apocalypse gave him an opportunity to bring that hotshot back. Rick's reappearance snuffed that.

But as much as I thought Shane was unhinged, dangerous, and unhealthy for everyone- there were sings of who he was under the insecurity. The good man who could have been.

For one, when out with Otis- he was the first to choose to be the sacrifice. He would have lost Lori and Carl to save Carl. He volunteered to be the one who died. Otis refused.

It was not a case where Shane immediately saw a need and killed Otis. He asked Otis to be the one who got away, and Otis refused.

I'm not at all saying he was a good man.

I'm saying he was a sick man who would have been a good man if he wasn't sick. Not making excuses, just talking about why his character was so great, and what's missing from the show now.

With Negan we have nothing. I don't want excuses for Negan, but I do want human reasons and human failings. I want to know who he was. Shane, and to a lesser extent the Governor, prove that bad guys don't have to be cartoons. The Gov only hinted occasionally. But that's why I loved the Governor episodes. Redundant to the plot, yes. Did it muddy the narrative? Yes.

But it also gave us that arc we should have had from the beginning. I realize meeting people once they're already broke happens, and will happen more so as time goes on. But I think the show needs to somehow give us glimpses of the human underneath.


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#20
thelastpaul

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Naossano mentioned Merle, which I can agree with as well.

Merle was one of those characters that you loved to hate, and he went out in a pretty bad ass way. 


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#21
theglassintheguvseye

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Shane was mentally ill, something I imagine would be very common in an apocalypse.

Rationally he could have been happy, if he could have accepted the value he had and how incredibly important he was to everyone's survival, while accepting that his obsessions were unhealthy and impossible to achieve, he might be alive now. Perhaps with Andrea, perhaps even off somewhere in Morales land.

That's why his character was so compelling. I don't think he was just generally an arrogant self-absorbed ass. He was insecure and lost within the only role he excelled (in his mind)- popular boy. It didn't suit him as an adult, and the apocalypse gave him an opportunity to bring that hotshot back. Rick's reappearance snuffed that.

But as much as I thought Shane was unhinged, dangerous, and unhealthy for everyone- there were sings of who he was under the insecurity. The good man who could have been.

For one, when out with Otis- he was the first to choose to be the sacrifice. He would have lost Lori and Carl to save Carl. He volunteered to be the one who died. Otis refused.

It was not a case where Shane immediately saw a need and killed Otis. He asked Otis to be the one who got away, and Otis refused.

I'm not at all saying he was a good man.

I'm saying he was a sick man who would have been a good man if he wasn't sick. Not making excuses, just talking about why his character was so great, and what's missing from the show now.

With Negan we have nothing. I don't want excuses for Negan, but I do want human reasons and human failings. I want to know who he was. Shane, and to a lesser extent the Governor, prove that bad guys don't have to be cartoons. The Gov only hinted occasionally. But that's why I loved the Governor episodes. Redundant to the plot, yes. Did it muddy the narrative? Yes.

But it also gave us that arc we should have had from the beginning. I realize meeting people once they're already broke happens, and will happen more so as time goes on. But I think the show needs to somehow give us glimpses of the human underneath.

You are so much kinder than me, Mosher.  I guess as a female who has been groped, belittled, underestimated etc, etc for having ovaries I'm just a bit meaner than you on this one.  He was a cop.  They have people to deal with mental illness.  Shane was your typical dude who was developmentally arrested at around age 17.  The would be pro football player type.  But yes, his arc was interesting.   I just despised him because I am a strong, capable empowered female.  Same reason I didn't like Lori.  She was my antithesis.  Same reason I grew to dislike Abe.  He treated Rosita like shit.  He had nothing on Merle in the comedic relief/inappropriate comment department.  I do somewhat feel sorry for Lori.  But if BWR croaked on me, an apocalypse came and someone helped me out, I wouldn't be banging them.  I'd be mourning.  I may never have sex again if he dies on me.  I LOVE men but I don't NEED a man.  Agree completely about Negan and the Gov.


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#22
mosher

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I'm not defending Shane the man, I'm just hailing Bernthal's performance as Shane. Shane was weak, very weak.

A weak man who wasn't much more than a scared kid, lashing out at anything that threatened his ego. He was tragic, but more because he was so damaged. If he was just a bad man he'd be less interesting. He was a bad man because he was a weak man, and Bernthal layered so much in his performance that you could see the kid who was never good enough for Daddy under it all.

He was awful to women, no doubt.

I hated guys like him when I was a kid. I'm not pleading his case so much as talking about what I like in show.

I like understanding the reasons behind people's awful behavior. Sure some people are just sociopaths, but a lot of people are projecting their personal damage outward. McBride does that beautifully, and so does Reedus. So did Rooker and and so does Gurira (although the show didn't give us that enough. She did a great job with very little opportunity, but she gave the right eyes at the right time and you knew she was silent and cold because of trauma.)

I'm just saying Bernthal gave Shane that.

I hate evil villains. Just like I hate pure heroes. I like human beings occupying those roles.

 


Edited by mosher, 22 March 2017 - 01:01 AM.

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#23
theglassintheguvseye

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Again, we agree.  I just have some strong feelings about the character and I just pm'd you and admitted to being a very kind sociopath.  Kismet much?  Hah.  But yes, I like what you like about the show.  Rooker and Reedus' scars and the drunken mom burning to death due to Virginia Slims really was touching.  Daryl showed some old Daryl in speaking with Gregory but he needs his hair cut dammit.  NEway, we agree.  How boring.  Sigh.  But I like you a lot.  And I value your opinions.  Thanks for sticking around.


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#24
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I'm not defending Shane the man, I'm just hailing Bernthal's performance as Shane. Shane was weak, very weak.

A weak man who wasn't much more than a scared kid, lashing out at anything that threatened his ego. He was tragic, but more because he was so damaged. If he was just a bad man he'd be less interesting. He was a bad man because he was a weak man, and Bernthal layered so much in his performance that you could see the kid who was never good enough for Daddy under it all.

He was awful to women, no doubt.

I hated guys like him when I was a kid. I'm not pleading his case so much as talking about what I like in show.

I like understanding the reasons behind people's awful behavior. Sure some people are just sociopaths, but a lot of people are projecting their personal damage outward. McBride does that beautifully, and so does Reedus. So did Rooker and and so does Gurira (although the show didn't give us that enough. She did a great job with very little opportunity, but she gave the right eyes at the right time and you knew she was silent and cold because of trauma.)

I'm just saying Bernthal gave Shane that.

I hate evil villains. Just like I hate pure heroes. I like human beings occupying those roles.

 

 

I understand what they show was trying to do with shane. I felt like though that they were making THE SAME point again... and again... and again..... and again. 

 

 In season one, we saw him aim a gun at Rick in the woods (Clearly wanting to pull the trigger). 

 

We saw him dole out unhinged vigilante justice on Ed Peltier. 

 

We saw him commit attempted rape of Lori. 

 

By then it was like okay, Shane's fucked up. We get it. 

 

Then in season two, we got anther 10 or so episodes (that's a low ball estimate)  pretty much telling us the same thing. 

 

I'm sorry but I really don't get it and that's one big reason why I'm not a huge fan of season two at all. 


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#25
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I understand what they show was trying to do with shane. I felt like though that they were making THE SAME point again... and again... and again..... and again. 

 

 In season one, we saw him aim a gun at Rick in the woods (Clearly wanting to pull the trigger). 

 

We saw him dole out unhinged vigilante justice on Ed Peltier. 

 

We saw him commit attempted rape of Lori. 

 

By then it was like okay, Shane's fucked up. We get it. 

 

Then in season two, we got anther 10 or so episodes (that's a low ball estimate)  pretty much telling us the same thing. 

 

I'm sorry but I really don't get it and that's one big reason why I'm not a huge fan of season two at all. 

I hated S2 mostly.  And it wasn't all Shane  But Maggie got Glenn, and we got a great S3 out of it IMO.  

 

All shows have glitches and failures but to me, the show is still worth watching.

 

Dale had 2 chances to kill Shane.  He couldn't.  S2 got us Herschel.  It also gave us a reason for Rick to be more ruthless and go bat shit crazy for a while which was annoying to many but understandable for me. 

 

The show is flawed.  I still like it


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