[mADAM Scorpious]

Do I smell a love triangle? I've been shipping Morgan and Carol as each other's yin and yang and I want to see them together as a couple, but it's clear that Ezekiel is interested in Carol as well. Where do the rest of you stand? Where do you see this going? Will Carol stay in the Kingdom as Zeke's Queen? Will Carol continue Michonne's comic storyline?

[Steph]

I definitely got a vibe there, at least he seems interested in her. 

[mADAM Scorpious]

Do you think Carol's feelin' him too?

[Steph]

Do you think Carol's feelin' him too?

 

I'm not sure yet, she can be hard to read sometimes, since she'll playact if it suits her needs. That said at the end when he dropped the act, I could see her warming to him. When he showed up with the pomegranate, she didn't seem to not want him there so....?? I can see it happening, once/if she lets some of her walls down. 

[kombat]

In the comic it's Michonne. For some reason Kirkman insists she sleep with every black man she meets. It won't be Michonne in the show most likely since she is with Rick. If they do give Ezekiel a romance Carol indeed seems to be the leading candidate.

[naossano]

I am A bit worried about Morgan now that they introduced Ezekiel.

[Outkast1980]

I never bought into or even wanted a Morgan and and Carol relationship. They can relate to each other well. That doesn't always mean as a couple. Same thing with Daryl and Carol. Stop trying to play matchmaker in your heads FFS lol. oh and the Daily and Beth thing on show would be just been creepy lol.

[kombat]

I never bought into or even wanted a Morgan and and Carol relationship. They can relate to each other well. That doesn't always mean as a couple. Same thing with Daryl and Carol. Stop trying to play matchmaker in your heads FFS lol. oh and the Daily and Beth thing on show would be just been creepy lol.

 

This was discussed TO DEATH in season 4. It's an apocalypse situation with the population on the brink. Anyone of child bearing age is fair game as far as I'm concerned. You can't judge it through the lens of our "normal" society, whatever and whoever defines what normal is.

[zack]

I'm not sure yet, she can be hard to read sometimes, since she'll playact if it suits her needs. That said at the end when he dropped the act, I could see her warming to him. When he showed up with the pomegranate, she didn't seem to not want him there so....?? I can see it happening, once/if she lets some of her walls down. 

 

About that pomegranate....I read an interesting recap this morning that discussed the fruit.  

Quote from the article:  "It's significant that the fruit Ezekiel offers Carol when they first meet is a pomegranate. If you know your Greek Mythology, you'll remember that the beautiful Persephone became trapped in the underworld with Hades after she ate pomegranate seeds.

 

I don't know my Greek Mythology so I looked up Persephone and found this:

"Before leaving the underworld, Persephone had been persuaded to eat four seeds of a pomegranate. In ancient mythology, to eat the fruit of one’s captor meant that one would have to return to that captor or country, so Persephone was doomed to return to the underworld for four months of the year. But she was allowed to spend the remaining two-thirds of the year with her Earth Mother, Demeter."

 

That fits right in with Ezekiel telling Carol that she could be here, but not here.  Now I know Carol is not his captor, but according to Greek Mythology, Hades fell in love with Persephone on sight. (Persephone eventually falls in love with Hades.)  So think there is definitely a romance in the future for Carol and Ezekiel. 

 

Gotta love how the writers put in little items like this to add to the story.

 

Quotes are from these links:

http://www.usatoday....-well/93019760/

 

http://www.greekmyth...kmythology.com/

[Steph]

That's really cool, thanks for posting the links. I actually wondered a bit about that last night, while at the same time was wondering about all that fruit being in season at the same time lol

[Outkast1980]

This was discussed TO DEATH in season 4. It's an apocalypse situation with the population on the brink. Anyone of child bearing age is fair game as far as I'm concerned. You can't judge it through the lens of our "normal" society, whatever and whoever defines what normal is.

We will never agree on that. Ever. Even in a ZA I think it's morally wrong. That said, Let me know when we get to the point I'm the show where re-populating the earth becomes a major factor and storyline. That's when I'll turn it off I have a feeling. No, Daryl and Beth in that situation is not appropriate. At least not in my opinion. If she was 21, I'd find odd but acceptable. 16 or 17, no. And reasons for not Carol is because they act like siblings not like lovers. At this point it'd just feel very "off" to me.

[kombat]

We will never agree on that. Ever. Even in a ZA I think it's morally wrong. That said, Let me know when we get to the point I'm the show where re-populating the earth becomes a major factor and storyline. That's when I'll turn it off I have a feeling. No, Daryl and Beth in that situation is not appropriate. At least not in my opinion. If she was 21, I'd find odd but acceptable. 16 or 17, no. And reasons for not Carol is because they act like siblings not like lovers. At this point it'd just feel very "off" to me.

 

16 is legal is most states. Not that what's legal and what's moral are always the same thing, but you know what I'm saying. I think she was established as 17 at the farm, so post-prison she's at least 18.

 

When you say it's morally wrong, you're looking through the lens of our culture, which no longer exists. Our group has done a lot of things we'd consider morally wrong and we justify them merely because of the context. Why would 2 consenting people be any different?

 

Maybe we should agree to disagree before another thread gets hijacked.

[mADAM Scorpious]

good catch, Zack! I knew the story about Persephone and Hades, but I had no clue that he trapped her with pomegranate, i think the allusion says more about what community Carol will still in rather than Zeke's character.

 

but outkast, its so fun to play imaginary matchmaker with tv shows lol but youre probably right about morgan and carol being better as besties than lovers... i shipped daryl and carol majorly around the prison and was kinda disappointed when nothing happened, but im glad nothing happened between him and beth, the age difference didnt bother me so much, i just shipped carol and daryl too much at that time.

 

as for the age difference debate, breeding age isn't fair game, women typically get their periods around age 12 or 13 and some girls have gotten it as young as 8, so were still basically children when we gain the biological capability to have children and just because were physically old enough to get pregnant doesn't mean were mentally old enough to raise children or have adult relationships. i personally consider any guy old enough to drink and vote in every country (aside from countries that dont allow voting or drinking or have crazy requirements to do either) to be fair game until my age doubles his age. beth wasnt old enough to legally drink, maybe old enough to vote and daryl's character is probably in his thirties to forties so it passes into non kosher territory, but if they both loved each other than nbd.

[Nareen]

 

This was discussed TO DEATH in season 4. It's an apocalypse situation with the population on the brink. Anyone of child bearing age is fair game as far as I'm concerned. You can't judge it through the lens of our "normal" society, whatever and whoever defines what normal is.

 
Beth was a sheltered adolescent who had just seen her father decapitated, lost her sister and her home and was completely dependent for her survival on Daryl. A sexual relationship between them would have been a horrifying abuse of power on Daryl's part, just like a teacher preying on one of his or her teenage students, whether or not the victim consents. As mADAM Scorpius said, girls are physically capable of bearing children in their early teens but their brains are nowhere near fully developed. If Beth had been thirteen, would sex between her and a middle aged man have been OK?

An apocalypse doesn't change the wrongness of that. Yes the group has, usually reluctantly, done some terrible things but they haven't stooped to sexual exploitation. The opposite in fact; they are all about protecting their members. Rapists like the Claimers are presented as the lowest of the low and destroyed by any means necessary.

I suspect that the root of the Daryl/Beth shipping thing is that Emily Kinney had started looking like her almost thirty years rather than a teenager, plus her bad acting made it even more unbelievable. Beth looked like an adult but the character's chronological age (17 or 18)and her impulsive and immature behaviour from the time the prison fell until she died showed that she wasn't.

Anyway, if I was a very young woman in a ZA, I think I'd look for a young guy with survival skills as the potential father of my children, someone like Glenn, instead of an old dude with aging sperm and more years behind him than ahead. Though TWD seems to have it in for young men even more than it does for blond women.

Interesting and amusing about the pomegranate symbolism. There certainly seemed to be chemistry between the two characters just as there is between Carol and Morgan, but is is sexual or just two excellent actors playing off each other? Maybe we'll find out.

[kombat]

daryl's character is probably in his thirties to forties so it passes into non kosher territory, but if they both loved each other than nbd.

 

This is another reason I wouldn't have had a problem with it. It was established at some point that Daryl was in his early-mid 30's, not the late 40's that Norman Reedus is at. Early 30's to 17-18 isn't terrible given the circumstances. If Daryl were the same age as Reedus, then I would be more apt to agree that it would be a little ick, but probably not. Remember the Lost actor in his 50's that married a 16 or 17 year old? I wasn't icked out. I thought "good for him". Though I'd probably think different if I had to watch them kiss and whatnot on my TV screen. 

[mosher]

Anyone of child bearing age is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

I am sure this is not what you meant.

You keep arguing 16/17 but child bearing age can and has been 12 and younger.

You lost a lot of people with that argument that you might not have if you stuck with her acted age.

I still think you're wrong, though.

The history of the adolescent as acceptable mating stock is out of fashion because of many things. Longer life expectancy, more opportunity for women to choose their life rather than have it set at birth, and much higher infant vitality among those reasons.

Nevertheless, it remains true that it is a very plausible fact of an apocalyptic setting and I could definitely see it happening. But I certainly don't see Daryl exploiting a kid when he himself was an exploited kid. (maybe not sexually, but he certainly was shaped by others in there image).

[Mr. NomNom]

i get what kombat is saying. hundreds of yrs ago age and consent was completely different. hell there were families when the girls were 13 and 14. times have changed during this world i would see a lot of age differences.

if it was vice versa it seems like people have less of an issue sometimes. they live in a world where the laws and rules and all that stuff doesn't exsist anymore.

[kombat]

I am sure this is not what you meant.

You keep arguing 16/17 but child bearing age can and has been 12 and younger.

You lost a lot of people with that argument that you might not have if you stuck with her acted age.

I still think you're wrong, though.

The history of the adolescent as acceptable mating stock is out of fashion because of many things. Longer life expectancy, more opportunity for women to choose their life rather than have it set at birth, and much higher infant vitality among those reasons.

Nevertheless, it remains true that it is a very plausible fact of an apocalyptic setting and I could definitely see it happening. But I certainly don't see Daryl exploiting a kid when he himself was an exploited kid. (maybe not sexually, but he certainly was shaped by others in there image).

 

You're right. That was a poor choice of words. That said, my daughter had a friend once in 6th grade who could've easily passed for 18, and I have a neighbor whose daughter could've passed for 18 or 19 as early as when she was an 8th grader. No, I'm not advocating 8, 9, or 10 year olds, regardless how early they start puberty. That's not what I meant at all. But post-apocalypse, I'm certainly not going to look down on anyone hooking up with someone of legal age, which in Georgia is 16.

[Jgreenwood]

This was discussed TO DEATH in season 4. It's an apocalypse situation with the population on the brink. Anyone of child bearing age is fair game as far as I'm concerned. You can't judge it through the lens of our "normal" society, whatever and whoever defines what normal is.

 

 

Hope my daughters are nowhere near you when shit hits the fan.

[Avette93]

I wouldn't mind a relationship between Carol and Morgan because they've both lost a child and are on a similar path of trying to find themselves. Morgan seems to be a Buddhist so I'm not sure how he would view such a relationship and its attachments. It would also be a bit awkward, considering their past fights, although they joke about that now. I think Ezekiel is more likely. He gave Carol a choice but he won't give up on her.