Is Ftwd Circling The Drain? Season 2.2 Opens With Dud Dems

ratingsFear the walking dead Death spiral Robert Kirkman David Erickson no lead Aimless wandering no plot no villian meandering plot

#1
DaneBramage

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Forbes magazine names five reasons the show is imploding on itself. I agree that it's in serious trouble- not sure about #4- I do thinking the writing has gotten inconsistent and the plot has meandered away form any type of "rhythm"- Robert Kirkman hasn't written any of this season's episodes.

 

These are the five reasons cites as the source of the series' demise.

 

1. It Has No Real Ties To The Original Show

 

2. It’s Extremely Unclear Who The Lead Is

 

3. There Are No Memorable Villains

 

4. There’s No Source Material To Indicate It Will Get Better

 

5. It’s Too Many Zombies In One Year

 

Elaborated in this article:

 

http://www.forbes.co...l/#6b43eb26c712


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#2
Zvivor

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I think the Forbes article hit a lot of the points but missed a few others:

 

1)  Unlike TWD which mostly, but not always, kept its shows tightly to the "logic" of the zombie apocalypse, FTWD just makes stupid skips that are "unrealistic" even by ZA Logic and sloppy.   In other words, they don't dot the I's and cross the T's.   They let walkers (er, infected, wasteds) get up and walk after falling several stories from balconies.   They let a ballroom full of wedding guests get locked in the ball room for weeks  (has to be at least a couple of weeks) and there's no bloody corpses, blood -- even the wedding cake is intact and the dead Bride's Mom looks like she just arrived).   Back at Colonia, they "feed" a man to the walkers surrounding the colony (a good defensive tactic) as they apparently do all the time, but there are no skeletons, bloody or otherwise and they call it re-inforcing the wall.  Unless they mean making the zombies stronger by feeding them, having sick people get eaten does not add to the zombie man power).  There has not been a single episode that these kind of glaring "dumb" things haven't filled the show. 

 

2)  They have a heroin addict as the lead character -- an addict who stole morphine from a man dying of  a heart attack, who has tried to steal drugs from every place his family goes.   Yes, he has some redeeming character traits but he is not trust-worthy.    He abandoned his family to walk with the "Dead", now he's hooked up with a Mexican version of a Jim Jones' community.   Among his few saving graces are that Strand, who is a great character likes him and sees something in him.   But that's not quite to answer the question of who wants to watch this train wreck of a young man destroy others, and maybe himself, in the process? po

 

3)  None of the characters, with the possible exception of Strand, have the charisma or leadership to carry the show.   So now, it's just a series of either bottle episodes or bounce from one not particularly interesting character to another --- in an environment of Mexican cartels all too like the news we see all the time, without a Zombie Apocolapsyse.

 

Bottom line -  I don't much carry whether any of the characters live or die -- (except Strand).   I'm guessing that's pretty much true of the watching audience.   There's nothing wrong with them being flawed --- they're just too flawed to enjoy or root for.


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#3
kombat

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Link given didn't work for me.

 

http://www.forbes.co...l/#159f53b86c71

 

1) This is a perfect illustration of TWD being more than just a zombie show, and it is successful in spite of it. As the article states, the only thing it shares with the original is the zombies. Zombies alone can't and won't make a show. It doesn't make TWD what it is and it clearly isn't making FTWD a better show.

 

3) I won't hold this against the show. TWD didn't have any villians really this early in the series, unless you count the farm, lol, so why expect FTWD to, and timeline wise it's much earlier in the ZA than TWD was midway through season 2. Of the arguments made against the show, this was by far the weakest one.

 

4) This isn't a problem per se, but the fact that the creator of the source material of TWD is an EP of this show and it still sucks is a major concern.

 

5) Hard to say if this is real or not. Give us a good alternative and we'll see.

 

This show lost me with the 9 day time jump in season 1. It was marketed as seeing how it all fell apart. I don't mean how society or government or military fell, but just how people struggled to survive those first few weeks. We didn't get that.

 

It needs something to distinguish it from the original. Maybe instead of another show of bad guy after bad guy, this group becomes the bad guy. Or maybe they are the ones searching for a cure. I don't know, something to make it different. I'm still watching, but don't know for how long. Haven't watched last episode yet though since college football was on both Sunday and Monday night.


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#4
zack

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I think the show is better this season and am glad to see that it has been renewed for season 3.

 

http://mondaymondayn...d/#.V8-Mi_krLcv


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#5
DaneBramage

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kombat said:
"This show lost me with the 9 day time jump in season 1. It was marketed as seeing how it all fell apart. I don't mean how society or government or military fell, but just how people struggled to survive those first few weeks. We didn't get that."


 

I have a theory about this too- I think (IIRC) the deal pitched was originally for 10 episodes in S 01. We got 6. So there's 3 Episodes of societal collapse and one near the last episode (maybe make it a double episode). So I think that's where the collapse of society went. Maybe the Flight 462 was to be interwoven so we could pick back up on Alex and Jake in S 02.

 

It's amazing how Nick's addiction magically disappeared. As a recovering alcoholic, I wish (occasionally) that I had been "miracled" sober.


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#6
jaco

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There are never too many zombies.  Ever.  lol

 

The shortcomings of this show have been: a) it's not what it was advertised.  We blew through the origin stuff in short order. B) I don't know that the LA/Pacific Ocean/Mexican desert setting have ever really worked with zombie storylines..not sure why...c) crappy writing; d) crappy casting; and e) they're just not a likable bunch.  

 

They are right. There is no leader.  Travis was probably supposed to be a leader, but he's either very poorly written or just poorly acted.  Madison...the lady my wife refers to as "permanent bitch face".   I don't think she's a leader, either.  And then there's the "others"..mysterious Strand, junky Nick, crazy Chris, the daughter i can't remember..  Salazar was entertaining.  They should've kept him around longer.  

 

I don't know that the villain issue is pertinent.  Rick and his crew always had a variety of threats.  A real problem is that the walkers in this show aren't a particular threat.   Articles are everywhere talking about Nick using guts as camouflage.   It's too easy for them to navigate this world.   I don't sense imminent danger.  You don't need a mega villain like the Governor or Negan to accomplish that..just some valid threat to the group.   We're just sort of in a free range mode with this show.  


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#7
kombat

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I don't know that the villain issue is pertinent.  Rick and his crew always had a variety of threats.  A real problem is that the walkers in this show aren't a particular threat.   Articles are everywhere talking about Nick using guts as camouflage.   It's too easy for them to navigate this world.   I don't sense imminent danger.  You don't need a mega villain like the Governor or Negan to accomplish that..just some valid threat to the group.   We're just sort of in a free range mode with this show.  

 

That's one of my problems with the show. This early in the ZA, the characters were able to handle the walkers too easily. Part of it is also that nobody is getting killed. In the first 2-3 seasons of TWD, people were killed off left and right. There truly was a "no one is safe" feeling to the show. In Fear, we've lost Chris' mom, and Ophelia's parents. Of those 3 I'd say only Ophelia's dad mattered. His name escapes me. This show doesn't have the "no one is safe" aura that the original had. Like you said we don't sense imminent danger. In the original danger always felt like it was right around the corner, on the edge of our seats fearing one of our characters would die. Which leads into the other complaint: the characters are unlikable (except Alicia, starting to like her). Even if we felt imminent danger, would we care?


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#8
cornjob

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I'm late to the party, but I've been thinking about FTWD as TWD season winds down. I'm trying to decide whether to bother watching the season opener when it starts back up. The "border crossing" shorts during the commercials have not really grabbed me like the plane drama did.

 

Salazar was my favorite character of the main crew. I was waiting for more with him, but I guess that's over.

 

I think the worst sign for the show, is that the 2 characters from the plane crash were more likable and I felt more invested in them than the entire main group. I became hopeful that the story was going to open up a bit more and they were going to be added as regulars. 

 

I avoid a lot of spoiler stuff, so I don't know anything about the upcoming season. But I just don't see where this is going that is going to make the show more engaging. They need a couple new characters that I can root for. There was an opportunity to do this with both the hotel and the cult, but in both cases nothing stuck. 


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#9
zack

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I'll be watching.  I like Strand and Alicia.  Nick is getting interesting since he has a girlfriend and I want to know who captured Ofelia.  I don't like Madison and Travis.

 

I agree that the "border crossing" shorts aren't interesting as the plane drama was.


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#10
World War Pee

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I have never watched FearTWD and was thinking about it, not so sure I going to after reading some of these comments. Would it be better if it had some "Real Ties To The Original Show"?


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#11
thelastpaul

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I have never watched FearTWD and was thinking about it, not so sure I going to after reading some of these comments. Would it be better if it had some "Real Ties To The Original Show"?

Ties to the original show isn't the problem. It's lackluster writing at points. 

The show is a bit of a roller coaster but I'd say it's worth at least one watch-through. 


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#12
World War Pee

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Ties to the original show isn't the problem. It's lackluster writing at points. 

The show is a bit of a roller coaster but I'd say it's worth at least one watch-through. 

Thanks, I'll give it a shot


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#13
daenerys

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I haven't bothered commenting on FTWD in this forum yet, although I do watch the series.  Honestly though, I wouldn't care if it was cancelled because there is not a single character that I like enough to root for, and there are many that I openly dislike - especially Madison and Travis. 


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#14
theglassintheguvseye

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We LOVED Salazar.  He is a real character acting as he had to in his homeland even though he lives in Panama in real life.  I love Strand, too.  I'll be watching but I'm also unsure as to how long it will last.  I don't watch a lot of shows.  Travis and his wife bore the shit out of me.  I want to see more interesting folks and pray that Salazar will reappear as Morgan did.  Ruben Blades is IMO, as awesome as Lenny James in the original show.  Nick also holds my interest for some reason.


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#15
mosher

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Alex was probably my favorite character, alongside Salazar and Nick. Strand became interesting when his backstory was revealed. Before that I didn't find him interesting at all.

I like Travis now that his denial is over, but his ineffectualness wasn't written in a compelling way. We'll see how that progresses. Madison and Travis aren't very interesting people as written, sadly. 

Alicia will be better when she becomes more her own person, more grown. She's getting there.

Ofelia on her own was an odd decision since they barely did much with her to begin with. On her own I wish they'd developed her more. Another person we'll have to wait on.

This show needed Alex to stay.


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#16
mosher

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But I will watch.


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#17
zack

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No exact date yet, but FTWD will return in June.

 

AMC advertised that a plane survivor would join the cast.  That would be Alex.

Either they changed their minds or hopefully she'll find her way back to them.

If she does, would it be as friend or foe.

 

Found this article on Salazar's exit.

 

Spoiler


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#18
mosher

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No exact date yet, but FTWD will return in June.

 

AMC advertised that a plane survivor would join the cast.  That would be Alex.

Either they changed their minds or hopefully she'll find her way back to them.

If she does, would it be as friend or foe.

 

Found this article on Salazar's exit.

 

Spoiler

Are you sure that's not last year's release regarding Alex? It pretty much exactly what they said before season two began.


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#19
zack

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Are you sure that's not last year's release regarding Alex? It pretty much exactly what they said before season two began.

You're right.  It was last year's release.  We saw her for a brief while, but I thought they meant that she would become an ongoing character.  I'm hoping she will reappear at some point.  


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"I don't believe that things happen for the best. I do believe, however, that it is possible to make the best of things that happen."

 


#20
mosher

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She's my hands down favorite. A mistake to not write her in further.

And the high school kid. Bring him back.

Why? Since it's silly to have people all somehow come around again?

Because I'll forgive anything that makes the show more interesting.

Salazar back is a nice idea. Strand back (I thought he would be) is very cool.

I think the next season will be better.


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#21
cornjob

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You're right.  It was last year's release.  We saw her for a brief while, but I thought they meant that she would become an ongoing character.  I'm hoping she will reappear at some point.  

The acne kid from the school was more interesting than the rest of the Season 1 cast.

 

Alex should have joined the group as a regular. That whole incident should have ended with the kid dying and attacking her, and then they pull the boat up and let her join the group. 

I'm sure I wasn't the only one relieved when they killed off Chris. 

 

I had hopes that Salazar was going to assert himself and become the leader of the group. He's the most sympathetic character to me. If he comes back, that would be great. But we're getting into some crazy coincidences seeing characters reappear over so much space. 

 

I don't have the love for Strand that so many have. I think he's on "OK" character, and I appreciated his back-story. But I think the reason he seems so good is the contrast to the weak unlikable characters around him. 

 

I have often wished we got flashbacks in TWD, and I won't mind if FWD decides to go with more of that. They need to do something to help people connect more with the survivors the show is following. There are times when I'm rooting for the zombies in this one. 


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#22
zack

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 There are times when I'm rooting for the zombies in this one. 

:lol:  Hilarious!


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#23
mosher

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I think flashbacks would be great for TWD, and I've always wanted them. They were useful in Lost as well.

Some people hate them, but to me it helps build the characters because it provides a foundation.


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#24
DaneBramage

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No exact date yet, but FTWD will return in June.

 

AMC advertised that a plane survivor would join the cast.  That would be Alex.

Either they changed their minds or hopefully she'll find her way back to them.

If she does, would it be as friend or foe.

 

Found this article on Salazar's exit.

 

Spoiler

This is the bet news re: FTWD i have ever heard. Bring that motherfucker back!


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