Carol As Mimic

S6 season 6 carol

#1
Hint_Of_Beetroot

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Carol's ability to be a chameleon was really sweetly established in S5, but her performance in S6 was uberly kick ass. Saving the action, really, as we all know no-one form the inner circle's getting capped mid-season.

 

Question:

Spoiler


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#2
Imagineer

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One thing that made Carol believable as not-so-tough, was her beautiful manicure when she is held captive.  I nice continuance from Alexandria. 


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As a sharpshooting sniper, I am quick and light in the treetops.  On the ground, I'm Sam. "Mom? Mom?" Avatar is of any child before losing it's baby teeth.


#3
DeadOnMyFeet

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Carol's ability to be a chameleon was really sweetly established in S5, but her performance in S6 was uberly kick ass. Saving the action, really, as we all know no-one form the inner circle's getting capped mid-season.
 
Question:

Spoiler


I'd be surprised if it wasnt really her--McBride is a very talented actress.

I admit i missed the manicure. I could say Im a guy, but thats no excuse.
Good catch, Imagineer.
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#4
Outkast1980

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Love watching her character evolve!  That said I am not a fan of hers. I love the actress. I love character.  I think she is overly flawed and view her as now as hybrid of Shane shortly before he lost it, and Rick near his lowest point.   That's not a good thing.

 

Is she tough and and a badass? For damn sure!


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#5
theglassintheguvseye

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OK, you just introduced yourself and I warned you.  But I'll go easy on ya.

 

Overly flawed?!?  Carol was a wall flower in the beginning, an abused wife, married to an Ed that was likely molesting or setting up a situation whereby he could molest his and her own daughter.  Had the ZA not happened, I think she would have likely either poisoned him or let it happen.  We'll never know.  She is nothing like Shane and her transition is nothing compared to Rick's hallucinations or Shane's misogyny or lack of character.  Sure, he may have thought Rick was dead but really, start bopping his widow and totally freak because the idiot woman tells him that her growing fetus may be his???  No, Shane tried to steal a family.  You don't do that.  Carol would not do that. No hybridization there.  She is conflicted.  She is feeling the burn of having killed the living.  She is very human and that's what humanity needs.  Dale is dead.  Rick is jaded.  Michonne even got pulled into the tying up of the "Wolf" while Carol very swiftly and coolly shot him in the head.  Not Shane. Just extremely adaptable.  Shane was one who was waiting for this opportunity.  Carol may have been, too but didn't know it and just got along to get along.

 

Rick had the most to lose here.  A wife, a born child and a child of indefinite paternity to worry about.  Sophia was undead.  No coming back from that.  I don't get your comparisons. At all.  Still, I respect your opinion.  Write a solioquy if you wanna.  I just did. 


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#6
backwoodsroamer

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Carol's ability to be a chameleon was really sweetly established in S5, but her performance in S6 was uberly kick ass. Saving the action, really, as we all know no-one form the inner circle's getting capped mid-season.

 

Question:

Spoiler

 

I mined this statement diligently. I was hoping to find some tiny ember, some miniscule flicker glowing in the ash of ignorance.

 

I felt the need to counterpoint the vitriol of my beloved Mama Glass. Alas, I could not. Here I must agree with Freud. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Or in this case the ignorant ramblings of a fatuous ass are just that.

 

You have my sympathy, sir. Your life must be a nightmare. Existing this way must be eternal torment.  

 

"I'm sorry this happened to you." 


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"Kiss your Mother goodnight, and remember that God saves."

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#7
Outkast1980

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OK, you just introduced yourself and I warned you.  But I'll go easy on ya.

 

Overly flawed?!?  Carol was a wall flower in the beginning, an abused wife, married to an Ed that was likely molesting or setting up a situation whereby he could molest his and her own daughter.  Had the ZA not happened, I think she would have likely either poisoned him or let it happen.  We'll never know.  She is nothing like Shane and her transition is nothing compared to Rick's hallucinations or Shane's misogyny or lack of character.  Sure, he may have thought Rick was dead but really, start bopping his widow and totally freak because the idiot woman tells him that her growing fetus may be his???  No, Shane tried to steal a family.  You don't do that.  Carol would not do that. No hybridization there.  She is conflicted.  She is feeling the burn of having killed the living.  She is very human and that's what humanity needs.  Dale is dead.  Rick is jaded.  Michonne even got pulled into the tying up of the "Wolf" while Carol very swiftly and coolly shot him in the head.  Not Shane. Just extremely adaptable.  Shane was one who was waiting for this opportunity.  Carol may have been, too but didn't know it and just got along to get along.

 

Rick had the most to lose here.  A wife, a born child and a child of indefinite paternity to worry about.  Sophia was undead.  No coming back from that.  I don't get your comparisons. At all.  Still, I respect your opinion.  Write a solioquy if you wanna.  I just did. 

Don't go easy on me.

 

I know her story very well.  Had the ZA never happened she'd possibly dead right now from her husband or even possibly suicide.  Rick's hallucinations are what they are.  Shane's poor mental health is easily seen. He knew the "fetus" might be he is. He didn't need her telling him that. He's not stupid. They all have felt the burn from killing the living and handle it differently.  Honestly, I don't think Rick was ever concerned about the paternity.  Rick's mind was made up either way that kid was his.  That said, when Carol could poison two people without a conversation with anyone about it, on the idea that she really was helping the group, I put that right up there with Shane and the barn of walkers incident.  Right or Wrong, how they did it, and why they did it is a the problem and the issue. 


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#8
theglassintheguvseye

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I'll give you that Carol's judgement at the prison was flawed.  But we must remember that she was trying to protect the herd as it were and "vaccinate" those 2 to do so. Bad call, probably but it killed most folks before the antibiotic run was made.  They likely would have died since they were infected early on.  I'll use BWR's own family on this one.  In 1918 the Spanish flu wiped out a whole hell of a lot of folks.  He lost is maternal grandparents to it.  Both of 'em. He also lost his paternal grandfather to it in 1921 (yes, it hung around a while and was still killing folks then). Why?  Because there was no medicine, clean water was not something that was afforded to people as it is now (nor was it at the prison) and people quickly died of a disease that nowadays we normally just treat, wait out and treat the secondary and tertiary complications of the flu.  But I will agree that it was a hasty and somewhat irrational move.

 

As a woman, I can tell you that Carol could have gone one way or another with Ed but if the rage she showed with the pick ax killing dead Ed was any example of what was building in her, she would a killed the bastard.  Hell, even Daryl was all WTF?? when she kept pounding so I think she had that strength but it hadn't reached its peak yet.We'll never know though.

 

Shane was Rick's deputy or whatever junior partner to the head guy in King Co.  He didn't question Rick's judgement then but when given and ounce of power and Rick out of his way, he got it in his 16 piece chicken mcnugget head that he was "the man".  He had no moral compass, no guile, no anything but an idea in his head that he thought the "right" one.  I forget where Shane wanted to go but there was no "safe" place, as it turned out and the CDC brought his true colors to the surface.  That and Dale catching him putting a bead on Rick when Dale caught him early on BEFORE he knew of the pregnancy.  Hell, he showed his true colors of misogyny in S1 Ep1 (I think) with the "can't turn the light off" bs over burgers in the cruiser with Rick. His feigned concern over Rick and Lori's relationship in the same scene was indicative to me that he had designs on her. In same scene, he spoke with much bravado about his HS conquests but Lori was Rick's HS sweetheart and I always felt that he wanted to hit that shit.  Just my opinion.

 

Carol's questioning and somewhat regretting her actions is something Shane never did.  He was RIGHT and Rick was not capable of protecting his family.  Hershel saw what Shane was from the get go and if anyone could read a man's heart it was Hershel (and Dale RIP).  

 

I do agree that Rick took full responsibility for Judith from the get go regardless of paternity.  And to his credit, regardless of motive, Shane took Carl under his wing when he thought Rick was dead.  Another personal story for that one.  My evil sister got knocked up by a guy who had a son from a previous marriage.  She treated him like her own.  As soon as she had her own, he was in the way. She treated him like dog shit after that and at 12 he chose to move to another state to live with his real mom to get away from her.  Sis has about as much character as Shane did.  Who's to say Shane wouldn't have thrown Carl under the bus like sis did once Judith was born?  Speculation there, yes.  But I've seen it happen.

 

Carol had the whole group in mind with no agenda.  Shane's only concerns really were Lori and Carl and the rest were red shirts to him or followers of his power hungry lead.  

 

Also, to the OP, BWR misquoted you and was responding to the same quote I did.  So don't feel like he was picking on you or anyone really but just giving his .02.

 

And as to the barn incident, I think Shane was correct in opening it.  It opened Hershel's eyes to the fact that there was no cure, gave Carol closure on Sophia, further developed Daryl's character and gave us that bad ass "Olive Oil" line he spit at Lori. God, I loved that and later his "He's Korean!!!" line at Merle was pretty bad ass.  (but not on topic, sorry). :P


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#9
Aolain

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Not to hijack the thread, but here goes....

 

Since folks are discussing Shane--who in my opinion was nuts from the beginning even when he was still leader of the quarry group as evidenced by his near killing of Ed.

 

Shane, and Merle for that matter, would be mighty handy to have around right about now in the conflict with Negan.

 

Of course, IMO, if either of those two were alive, they would fit in quite well with the Negan cult.


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#10
theglassintheguvseye

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OK, it is well known that I love Merle so I will have to disagree.  He would NEVER leave his brother and Daryl would have stuck with Rick.  Shane would do whatever the hell suited him.  He was dangerous.  Merle was simply a hatchet man for TG who saved him in Atlanta.  Yes, he did despicable things but he would stick by his blood.  He redeemed himself.  Do you think Shane would have saved Michonne and sacrificed himself to put a dent in the Governor's crew?/  Ii don't.


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#11
Outkast1980

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I'll give you that Carol's judgement at the prison was flawed.  But we must remember that she was trying to protect the herd as it were and "vaccinate" those 2 to do so. Bad call, probably but it killed most folks before the antibiotic run was made.  They likely would have died since they were infected early on.  I'll use BWR's own family on this one.  In 1918 the Spanish flu wiped out a whole hell of a lot of folks.  He lost is maternal grandparents to it.  Both of 'em. He also lost his paternal grandfather to it in 1921 (yes, it hung around a while and was still killing folks then). Why?  Because there was no medicine, clean water was not something that was afforded to people as it is now (nor was it at the prison) and people quickly died of a disease that nowadays we normally just treat, wait out and treat the secondary and tertiary complications of the flu.  But I will agree that it was a hasty and somewhat irrational move.

 

As a woman, I can tell you that Carol could have gone one way or another with Ed but if the rage she showed with the pick ax killing dead Ed was any example of what was building in her, she would a killed the bastard.  Hell, even Daryl was all WTF?? when she kept pounding so I think she had that strength but it hadn't reached its peak yet.We'll never know though.

 

Shane was Rick's deputy or whatever junior partner to the head guy in King Co.  He didn't question Rick's judgement then but when given and ounce of power and Rick out of his way, he got it in his 16 piece chicken mcnugget head that he was "the man".  He had no moral compass, no guile, no anything but an idea in his head that he thought the "right" one.  I forget where Shane wanted to go but there was no "safe" place, as it turned out and the CDC brought his true colors to the surface.  That and Dale catching him putting a bead on Rick when Dale caught him early on BEFORE he knew of the pregnancy.  Hell, he showed his true colors of misogyny in S1 Ep1 (I think) with the "can't turn the light off" bs over burgers in the cruiser with Rick. His feigned concern over Rick and Lori's relationship in the same scene was indicative to me that he had designs on her. In same scene, he spoke with much bravado about his HS conquests but Lori was Rick's HS sweetheart and I always felt that he wanted to hit that shit.  Just my opinion.

 

Carol's questioning and somewhat regretting her actions is something Shane never did.  He was RIGHT and Rick was not capable of protecting his family.  Hershel saw what Shane was from the get go and if anyone could read a man's heart it was Hershel (and Dale RIP).  

 

I do agree that Rick took full responsibility for Judith from the get go regardless of paternity.  And to his credit, regardless of motive, Shane took Carl under his wing when he thought Rick was dead.  Another personal story for that one.  My evil sister got knocked up by a guy who had a son from a previous marriage.  She treated him like her own.  As soon as she had her own, he was in the way. She treated him like dog shit after that and at 12 he chose to move to another state to live with his real mom to get away from her.  Sis has about as much character as Shane did.  Who's to say Shane wouldn't have thrown Carl under the bus like sis did once Judith was born?  Speculation there, yes.  But I've seen it happen.

 

Carol had the whole group in mind with no agenda.  Shane's only concerns really were Lori and Carl and the rest were red shirts to him or followers of his power hungry lead.  

 

Also, to the OP, BWR misquoted you and was responding to the same quote I did.  So don't feel like he was picking on you or anyone really but just giving his .02.

 

And as to the barn incident, I think Shane was correct in opening it.  It opened Hershel's eyes to the fact that there was no cure, gave Carol closure on Sophia, further developed Daryl's character and gave us that bad ass "Olive Oil" line he spit at Lori. God, I loved that and later his "He's Korean!!!" line at Merle was pretty bad ass.  (but not on topic, sorry). :P

 

My issue is what you said in the very second sentence "But we must remember that she was trying to protect the herd as it were and "vaccinate" those 2 to do so. Bad call, probably but it killed most folks before the antibiotic run was made."      

 

That was shane's motive as well as pointed out in my last reply to you.  Right or wrong in the end doesn't matter.  How she made the decision making, without any conversation at that point when they had a council, that's the problem.  She took it upon herself to "save" the group.  She killed two people that yes, like you pointed out probably would've died anyways, but we'll never know.     

 

As far as Shane being correct in opening is the same as carol. It's irregardless. He took it upon himself to do it.   Giving Carol closure was by pure chance and luck. Hindsight is always 20/20. Daryl's line at Lori wasn't personally at Lori by the way. He just was feeling like an outsider and it had already been put in his head by Carol that was what he was.   I loved the "He's Korean' line at Merle. That showed that Daryl's bond with Glenn had already taken place.   :)


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#12
theglassintheguvseye

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My issue is what you said in the very second sentence "But we must remember that she was trying to protect the herd as it were and "vaccinate" those 2 to do so. Bad call, probably but it killed most folks before the antibiotic run was made."      

 

That was shane's motive as well as pointed out in my last reply to you.  Right or wrong in the end doesn't matter.  How she made the decision making, without any conversation at that point when they had a council, that's the problem.  She took it upon herself to "save" the group.  She killed two people that yes, like you pointed out probably would've died anyways, but we'll never know.     

 

As far as Shane being correct in opening is the same as carol. It's irregardless. He took it upon himself to do it.   Giving Carol closure was by pure chance and luck. Hindsight is always 20/20. Daryl's line at Lori wasn't personally at Lori by the way. He just was feeling like an outsider and it had already been put in his head by Carol that was what he was.   I loved the "He's Korean' line at Merle. That showed that Daryl's bond with Glenn had already taken place.   :)

I understand your POV.  Were it not for the affair and the immediate attempted or even contemplated taking out of his best friend, I'd maybe give him a break.  The CDC scene and the S1Ep1 scene showed me a lot.  But, we can agree to disagree.  Still, Carol is a badass. :)


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#13
Outkast1980

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I understand your POV.  Were it not for the affair and the immediate attempted or even contemplated taking out of his best friend, I'd maybe give him a break.  The CDC scene and the S1Ep1 scene showed me a lot.  But, we can agree to disagree.  Still, Carol is a badass. :)

 

For sure!

 

That she is! :)


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