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Sophia 2.0 (Comic Spoilers)

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#1
Dead Gov Walking

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The problems stemming from going through multiple showrunners and then ending up with someone who actually wants to stick somewhat close to the source material is starting to rear their ugly heads.

 

Look, if you're gonna kill someone off who's not supposed to die. (Andrea, Sophia), that's fine. Cool.

But when you do, show how that's going to change the story

Don't just bring in a completely new character that fills that role completely and does everything the deceased character was meant to do, because then what the fuck was the point of killing the character off in the first place?

The Andrea situation was handled well enough by breaking up her story line and spreading it around. 

Carol got the twin story line

Michonne got the Mrs. Grimes role

Sasha, even though she's become annoying as fuck, has taken on the sniper role as well as being the one with 'love interest who was infected and partially eaten' situation

 

But then there's Enid....

Comic Sophia has been with the group from the start. one of the last remaining original survivors.

The death of her wacked out mom, her shutting down, and eventually being taken in by Maggie and Glenn. One of my favorite story lines in the comic.

And then there's her relationship with Carl. The cute little 'boyfriend/girlfriend' phase. The much needed moments of kids acting like kids, especially Carl (something that is more or less completely absent from the show), the dichotomy in how they handle the events around them....Good stuff

 

Good stuff the show missed out on because Mazarra/Darabont (Hell, since it was Gimple who wrote Pretty Much Dead already, maybe it was his idea) decided to off her in season 2. But the show makes some deviations from the comics as we all know, so it's whatever.

 

Enter Gimple. 

Mr. Faithful to the Comic, Sometimes to a Fault

Instead of just letting the Sophia story line stay dead back in season 2, he has to make Enid.

This annoying, angsty, bratty little shit character. Just about completely unlikable 

Made just to fill Sophia's role. I had a feeling that was going to be the case since the back half of the season 5. Last night's episode made me 100% sure about it, what, with Maggie basically saying "aye why not come live with me and Glenn?"

 

My problem, aside from almost literally everything about her character, is it's too late. If they were going to bring in a replacement Sophia, it should have happened SEASONS ago.

She's missed every single important character moment Sophia would have had, outside of being brought in by Glenn and Maggie, and even that feels forced.

Negan and Lucille are coming in the finale, we know this, and if does end up being Glenn on the receiving end, that just makes the decision to bring in off-brand Sophia even worse.

Her character is not needed. At least not in it's current state as "replacement Sophia"

 

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Edited by Dead Gov Walking, 22 February 2016 - 09:45 PM.

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#2
DaniB7

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They couldn't have kept Sophia alive without killing off Carol to keep with the comic storyline, but they changed Carol so much that they couldn't have killed her off, well they could have but that would have changed a lot of events - Lizzy and Mika and the rescue at Terminus immediately come to mind.  I also don't think Carol would have grown as much as a character without the death of Sophia.  

 

Enid at first really grated on my nerves.  What is with these kids and their angst?  But I think that's just typical teenage behavior.  It may be a ZA but they still have all those hormones and such running around and with the added benefit of PTSD for everyone, I'm sure that makes everything even more pronounced.  The poor kid needs someone to look out for her.  Maggie and Glenn are obviously grateful for her help in the rescuing of Maggie so it seems like a pretty natural progression to me.  


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#3
JacksSurprise

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I don't read the comics so I couldn't care any less than I do now about them changing the characters around.

I think that you would be a lot happier if you could compartmentalize the comics and the show. It seems to me that you don't enjoy the show all that much because of the deviation from the comics.

I don't mean this as an attack on you or that I think you should stop watching TWD. Please don't take it that way.

It's hard to do but I had to learn to accept this when it comes to Game of Thrones. It was hard but I enjoy GoT so much more now than I did the first 2-2 1/2 seasons.

I feel for you though because it's really hard to reconcile the show from the source material. Whatever show it is.

Edited by JacksSurprise, 23 February 2016 - 12:26 AM.

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#4
farswell7

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I think Enid's actually become very likable. 


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#5
tublecane

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Then what the fuck was the point of killing the character off in the first place?

To get the death scene? To pull whatever drama there is out of killing them off in the service of whatever story it is they're telling instead of the one in the comics. This is pretty basic. First you should ask whether it's better or worse than the comic alternative. If it's worse then "What was the point?" is a valid question.

In the case of Andrea it was worse, because I think most everyone thought her love affair with the Guv was one of the worst storylines of that season, as was her awkward relationship with Rick & Co. when they were reunited. That mini horror movie episode where she almost escaped from Guv's clutches was one of the worst Walking Dead episodes ever. Her death didn't pay off, as the emotion was drowned out by me yelling at the screen, "Shut up and get the damn wrench!"

As you say, it wasn't so bad because subsequent good bits of her comic storyline were picked up by various characters. Was killing Sophia worth it? Not to me, because I knew she was dead all along and like most was bored to death with the farm. Also, I already saw a little girl zombie get shot; it was the first thing the show did. But people were moved by the barn door scene. It is among the most remembered.

The problem with Enid is not that she's not Sophia and that she hasn't been around long enough to have been built up into Sophia. They can have a character that fits a comic Sophia-like template, and that hits this and that Sophia moment, that isn't Sophia. Enid can be Enid and be Carl's little girlfriend and have a relationship with Glenn and Maggie. The problem with Enid is simply that she's a crappy character . They've written her poorly.

There's been enough time to build her into something. She's had enough scenes with Carl and Glenn for that to translate into something more later. But the time's been wasted. She's thoroughly blah. There's not much there, except she liked to be outside the walls before and now she doesn't so much. That's her only character development. Remember when she got a whole cold open flashback sequence to herself? What did we learn about her? Nothing. What dramatic stakes were there in her confrontations with Glenn? None. There was a little bit of something when Glenn went through his list of people whose memories he has to live up to and she mentioned her parents. But that's it.

She wasn't even necessary to Glenn's foolhardy gambit to save Maggie. What did Enid do up there? Nothing Maggie couldn't have done herself but didn't for no reason, so far as I can tell.

You'd have little problem with Enid taking over Sophia's comic threads, I think, were Enid not a crappy character.

Edited by tublecane, 23 February 2016 - 12:54 AM.

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#6
Dead Gov Walking

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They couldn't have kept Sophia alive without killing off Carol to keep with the comic storyline, but they changed Carol so much that they couldn't have killed her off, well they could have but that would have changed a lot of events - Lizzy and Mika and the rescue at Terminus immediately come to mind.  I also don't think Carol would have grown as much as a character without the death of Sophia.  

 

 

yeah, at least we got a much more interesting Carol out of sophia dying early


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#7
zack

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But then there's Enid....

Comic Sophia has been with the group from the start. one of the last remaining original survivors.

The death of her wacked out mom, her shutting down, and eventually being taken in by Maggie and Glenn. One of my favorite story lines in the comic.

And then there's her relationship with Carl. The cute little 'boyfriend/girlfriend' phase. The much needed moments of kids acting like kids, especially Carl (something that is more or less completely absent from the show), the dichotomy in how they handle the events around them....Good stuff

 

 

I don't care about the comics, but I like Enid.  She has shown that she can be an asset, helping Maggie, etc.  Maybe because I love youth, I have always rooted for Carl and was especially sad to see Sam die. Ron not so much.  Why do most hate the young ones.  I don't get it..  


Edited by zack, 27 February 2016 - 05:29 AM.

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"I don't believe that things happen for the best. I do believe, however, that it is possible to make the best of things that happen."

 


#8
tublecane

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Why do most hate the young ones. I don't get it..

I hated young people back when I was one, and Don Draper puts well why: "Young people don't know anything, especially that they're young." That last part I only learned recently, when I foresaw what it might be like to lose my health. Old people are envious of the young ones for the gifts of youth, which are health, vigor, possibility, and so forth. They also resent the young for wasting those gifts, when they do, and for not appreciating them. That's why I can hate my young self even for being right about young people sucking. Because young me didn't know enough to enjoy my youth while it lasted.

The former part of the quote is self-explanatory. Young people are stupid is too broad and incorrect in particular cases. Young people don't know anything isn't strictly true but it gets at the heart of their faults. They lack experience. They lack the experience even to know they lack experience. This goes along with their stupidity, but is of a different significance. Youth is ignorance. Most relevant to The Walking Dead, youth lacks dramatic oomph for its narrowness of knowledge, so that they lack a range of choice and thus lack a degree of agency, and also they lack capacity for tragedy for not being able to see what's happening or has happened to them.

Edited by tublecane, 27 February 2016 - 06:46 AM.

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#9
Vrill

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It wont be Glenn on the receiving end of Lucille at seasons end. Glenn has went through too many fake outs for it to be him. It wont be Maggie, Rick, Carl, Michonne or Daryl either. They are all safe for at least this season for obvious reasons. 

 

I think its going to be either Abraham, Eugene, Sasha, Carol or Rosita personally. In fact, two of these people from this list will die (total) before this season ends.


Edited by Vrill, 27 February 2016 - 09:50 PM.

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#10
tublecane

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It wont be Glenn on the receiving end of Lucille at seasons end. Glenn has went through too many fake outs for it to be him. It wont be Maggie, Rick, Carl, Michonne or Daryl either. They are all safe for at least this season for obvious reasons.

I think its going to be either Abraham, Eugene, Sasha, Carol or Rosita personally. In fact, two of these people from this list will die (total) before this season ends.

I don't see Morgan on your list. It would go a long way towards making up for the way they ran his character into the ground for the show to off him soon, and it'd be a neat way to kill a character from the original cast without having to bother with beloved characters. Like a loophole.

They could also make up for it by writing him well, but I don't see that happening.

Edited by tublecane, 28 February 2016 - 06:02 AM.

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#11
Vrill

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I always forget to mention Morgan. Yeah, put him in with the group I mentioned that could die.


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