Morgan: Because All Life Is Precious

Morgan Terminus Church

#26
DominusPisces

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But when people are being butchered in the streets, you don't stop to tie one up for 10 minutes so that you can help him "come back."

 

Your comment is irrelevant. The Wolves were beaten and knocked out. There was no immediate threat at that point. Morgan had all the time in the world to decide what to do. If he wanted, he could have stripped them naked and tied them together as an homage to "Men at Work"


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#27
NaarioDaharis

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Er, we witnessed a scene of him tying up a black guy while the wolves were still running rampant? Carol shot the guy in the head. 


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#28
DominusPisces

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Er, we witnessed a scene of him tying up a black guy while the wolves were still running rampant? Carol shot the guy in the head. 

 

No.. Morgan had one scene with the wolves. When they ambushed him and his morning oatmeal. He beat them soundly and threw them into a car. He knocked them out. 


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#29
NaarioDaharis

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No.. Morgan had one scene with the wolves. When they ambushed him and his morning oatmeal. He beat them soundly and threw them into a car. He knocked them out. 

I dunno if you're joking or not.


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#30
abenzin

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I'm hoping Morgan realized his mistake at the end of the episode and that he is going after the Wolves that he let escape. Otherwise Rick is not going to be too happy with his old friend.


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#31
hazmat

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Since quoting isn't working for me in this browser...

 

@DominusPisces - In last night's episode, there is a scene wherein Morgan saves Gabrielle and they are tying up the dude Morgan saved Gabrielle from. It's the same scene in which we learn that Morgan learned his bow staff skillz from a cheese maker.


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#32
Serenity@sea

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No.. Morgan had one scene with the wolves. When they ambushed him and his morning oatmeal. He beat them soundly and threw them into a car. He knocked them out. 

You guys are talking about two separate incidents.

Naarrio is referring to the scene in last nights episode where he tied one of the wolves up (while the attack was still going strong). That wolf was about to kill FG.

Although, I'm not sure where he is getting that it took him ten minutes to tie him up. He could have done it fairly quickly in under a minute.

 

Since it does seem that Morgan did kill one of the wolves, I am interested in seeing if that changes his idealistic philosophy and how it impacts him down the line. I also wonder if he will have any guilt about the wolves being there in the first place.


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#33
moop420

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I think Morgan is just as bat shit crazy as he was in Clear, just to the other extreme now.

 

Hopefully there is a flashback episode in the cards.


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#34
NaarioDaharis

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Although, I'm not sure where he is getting that it took him ten minutes to tie him up. He could have done it fairly quickly in under a minute.

 

 

That's hyperbole. The point is that he took the time to tie up one of the wolves for the purpose of saving him, while the attack was still strong and lots of innocent people needed his help. (They may have intended on questioning the guy, but Morgan's main intent is to not kill him). 


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#35
Dogwalkerz

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In the episode Clear Rick offers to bring Morgan to the prison. Morgan's reply is that when you have something nice others want to take it from you. And he asks Rick why be needs so many weapons. Morgan also begs Rick to kill him.
The next time we see Morgan he has found the No Sanctuary sign and he finds the ruined Church. Now the walls of Alexandria have been breached by lunatic murderers. Confirming what he has known along, if you've got something good others will take it.
You know, maybe the only thing that brought Morgan back from insanity was a promise to himself not to kill another human being.
All life is precious. He was unable to save his wife or his son. Maybe Morgan has given up trying to save others and will only kill another unless his own life is directly threatened. It makes him an unfit member of any community and he knows that. At the end of this episode he is leaving with his small blue bag of personal items.
I think the approaching walker herd will prevent Morgan from leaving Alexandria, at least for a little bit, and hopefully he will have an opportunity to face his demons and fears and find a way to be a part of a community that offers some hope for a future beyond just survival.
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#36
JacksSurprise

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I can see where Morgan is coming from. He watched his son be killed by his dead wife, whom he himself couldn't kill which ultimately lead to his son's death. I'm sure he felt enough guilt for several lifetimes. He already went through his "I hate this world and everyone in it" phase and this seems to be the next step. Acceptance. I don't think it means that he would never kill a human but I think he would chose to spare lives when he can.

This is actually why Morgan's stance is so stupid and unrealistic. If he kills his zombie wife his kid is still alive. It's because of him that Rick is trapped in the RV. If Morgan takes the 5 Wolves out, they don't find Rick, Rick doesn't have to shoot them and alert the walkers with gunshots.

Morgan's philosophy is despicable and selfish. By not doing the right thing because of his morals he condemns other people to death. But hey, at least he can feel good about himself! Let's not worry about all the people that have probably been killed because he doesn't take out the psychopaths.

It's the same stupid philosophy Batman has. Don't kill the Joker because killing is bad and Batman doesn't want the guilt. But he has no guilt over the fact that because he wouldn't kill the Joker 1000's of people are dead because of it. Stupidity.
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#37
Lubec

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DVRing the coming Morgan episode.  I don't really feel like watching filler this weekend.


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#38
Lyrad13

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I'm looking forward to a 90 minute Morgan backstory episode.  I can wait to find out about Glenn.  I waited a very long time for Morgan to show up as a regular character.  I love his character , the Morgan we first met , "Clear" Morgan ,  even the current version.  Though I need him to lose the no kill policy.


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#39
sluicedawg

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Morgan's current pacifist philosophy is as insane and way more dangerous to others as his former "Clear" insanity. In his 'Clear" insanity the only ones he put in harms way were those he himself shot at. Now he is literally responsible for if not every Alexandrian death, then certainly most of them and a unknown number of other victims the wolves have taken and walkerized that we are not aware of.. If he had killed the two 'breakfast' wolves, they would not have killed the poncho guy, They would not have found Ricks map, (other wolves might have though) but for sure these two would not have. And the people killed by these two would not be dead by their hand. And correctly Rick would not have been attacked by the wolf with the gun he stole from Alexandria in the Rv, although the others might still have taken knives to a known gun fight with Rick. So Morgans' incredibly selfish and arrogant self serving philosophy is responsible for if not all then certainly most of the lives lost that we know of so far, Including Glenns' if he is indeed, dead.


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#40
Caryl4Pres

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Is it certain that this episode is all about Morgan's backstory? Because 90 minutes is a long time. I hope they are doing the black and white thing again, so we maybe get to see something from the present... little insights into what happened after the wolves attacked the safe zone.
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#41
Nareen

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Morgan's current pacifist philosophy is as insane and way more dangerous to others as his former "Clear" insanity. In his 'Clear" insanity the only ones he put in harms way were those he himself shot at. Now he is literally responsible for if not every Alexandrian death, then certainly most of them and a unknown number of other victims the wolves have taken and walkerized that we are not aware of.. If he had killed the two 'breakfast' wolves, they would not have killed the poncho guy, They would not have found Ricks map, (other wolves might have though) but for sure these two would not have. And the people killed by these two would not be dead by their hand. And correctly Rick would not have been attacked by the wolf with the gun he stole from Alexandria in the Rv, although the others might still have taken knives to a known gun fight with Rick. So Morgans' incredibly selfish and arrogant self serving philosophy is responsible for if not all then certainly most of the lives lost that we know of so far, Including Glenns' if he is indeed, dead.

 

IMO, Morgan is no more responsible for the fate of the Alexandrians that the Wolves slaughtered than Aaron is.  The Wolves made their own choices.  If Morgan could have seen into the future what the two Wolves that he didn't kill would do, then he would bear some responsibility.    As well blame Rick for taking most of the fighters away and leaving the community vulnerable.

 

On a practical level, it seems to me that what Morgan did made no difference in the end.  The Wolves were out there ranging around and had already moved north from Noah's home towards Alexandria.  Walkers that they had made, marked with the W, were already to be found within walking distance of the community.  It was only a matter of time.

 

All that being said, I disagree with Morgan's refusal to kill anybody at all.  In their world, sometimes, they have to.  But I do think that Morgan and Rick can learn from each other: sometimes they have to kill but they don't have to kill all the time.   Right now, both are too extreme.

 

I mean, isn't that what JSS was partly about, with Carol as Rick's proxy in this debate?  


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#42
tublecane

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I'm looking forward to a 90 minute Morgan backstory episode.  I can wait to find out about Glenn.


The fact that there's an extra half hour suggests it's a regular type episode with an extra long flashback. Probably a so-called "bottle" episode , but an episode with new events nonetheless. They still might hold back what happened to Glenn; sweeps is coming! But that won't be because they're busy with Morgan:The Legend Continues.
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#43
tublecane

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IMO, Morgan is no more responsible for the fate of the Alexandrians that the Wolves slaughtered than Aaron is


Of course he is. Aaron's part was unintentional. Morgan's was on purpose. I can't hold Morgan directly responsible, because the Wolves might have attacked Alexandria without the two Morgan spared. We have no notion of their power structure or decision making process, although it seemed the talky one was a leader.
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#44
DeadCave

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IMO, Morgan is no more responsible for the fate of the Alexandrians that the Wolves slaughtered than Aaron is.  The Wolves made their own choices.  If Morgan could have seen into the future what the two Wolves that he didn't kill would do, then he would bear some responsibility.    As well blame Rick for taking most of the fighters away and leaving the community vulnerable.

 

On a practical level, it seems to me that what Morgan did made no difference in the end.  The Wolves were out there ranging around and had already moved north from Noah's home towards Alexandria.  Walkers that they had made, marked with the W, were already to be found within walking distance of the community.  It was only a matter of time.

 

All that being said, I disagree with Morgan's refusal to kill anybody at all.  In their world, sometimes, they have to.  But I do think that Morgan and Rick can learn from each other: sometimes they have to kill but they don't have to kill all the time.   Right now, both are too extreme.

 

I mean, isn't that what JSS was partly about, with Carol as Rick's proxy in this debate?  

Morgan and Rick (depending upon the writers) might find that balance that is necessary in both their lives. Yes both are killers, but Rick kills by necessity (i.e. Pete being too dangerous, too volatile). Morgan killed out of self preservation and a warped sense of repentance that he would never achieve... until he became a no kill. 

From the looks of things Alexandria was going to be targeted by the Wolves regardless. They wiped out Noah's family's community, and are simply (to me) roaming like a wild pack, preying on anything/one that they chance upon. 

JSS was Enid's personal mantra for her survival after her parents were killed. Carol had already gone through that with the group and has matured into the hardened defender that she has become. Enid shared that mantra with Carl. Likely because she saw Carl as a survivor like herself, and the loss of his father would only be a matter of time and, like her, he'll be alone. 


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#45
DominusPisces

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I dunno if you're joking or not.

Okay I was NOT joking. I hadn't seen the episode yet. I had only seen the original episode where Morgan met them for the first time.

 

 

So.. after watching this episode. I have to concur. Morgan sparing the Wolves was stupid. I still stand by what I initially said, When it was just him and the 2 dudes in the forest, he had every right to spare them or kill them. After all only Morgan really has a right to determine how much a price an attempt on his life is owed.

 

During an actual siege where innocent people are being slaughtered.... yeah you kill the ones fighting. In this case though, it was more than just Morgan's life on the line. In this case, his mantra "All life is precious" requires him to sacrifice unworthy to save the worthy.


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Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray thee Lord these bites aren't deep.
Should I die before I wake, I pray thee Lord, my skull they break.


#46
Kursk

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I see that we learned why all life is not precious in this last episode. Taken to its logical extreme, Eastman philosophy (which contains a few items of "Eastern" philosophy?) demands that innocent life and worthy life be sacrificed so that sociopaths can live. That is a delusion.


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#47
Clidna

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I think that Morgan is holding on to his "all life is precious" mantra as tightly as he is, because he fears becoming that person who was killing everyone that crossed his path prior to meeting Eastman. I mean, the show pretty well spelled it out when he was with Father Gabe, and the Father said he wasn't very good with guns - Morgan replied, "Me neither." We know he's a good shot, we saw it in earlier episodes, so he's obviously referring to not being a good person with guns. When he was still unstable, he wasn't able to distinguish between good people and bad people - ALL people were considered a threat. He'd rather kill nobody and possibly have others killed as a result, than kill everybody, and no one survives.


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#48
weapon

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My guess is that he attacked and lost to whoever taught him to wield his stick. The Stranger(David Carradine walking the earth, getting into adventures...) having spared Morgan, gains his trust and converts him to a new mindset.




Nail on the head there fella, nice one
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#49
gplus46

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Tyreese was a pretty boring character. We don't need a constant "moral compass" character for Rick. He has a great idea about what things are. 

 

Now, Morgan is going to be another made-up boring character who could have been great. I'm sorry, but their made up characters, for some reason especially the African American ones, not being racist its just true, usually turn out to be terribly boring.

 

T-Dog, prison guy, Noah, Beth, Tyreese, Sasha, their version of the Governor, Andrea (cause she's not like comic Andrea), etc.

 

I know some (or a lot) of people liked a few of these characters, but really the comic versions were better. I'm not pro-comics. Its just true.

I agree that all the blk men have had a similar ideology on life...I wonder if it is political, not wanting to portray blk men as killers and don't know how to make them interesting. 

I am pro comics and think written material is generally superior to video productions.  When I think about it all the characters are generally more boring in the TV show than the comics. I just reread volumn 9 and Carl was also so much more interesting in the comics.


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#50
Serenity@sea

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I wonder if Morgan would have a more balanced look on this philosophy if Eastman hadn't died so early. It seems that he had a lot more to teach him. Since Eastman was isolated, practicing the principals of his beliefs was much easier for him, but he didn't seem delusional. He did say to Morgan several times something like, "I won't allow you to hurt me". That could mean that he would have killed him if he absolutely had to.

He didn't get a chance to expand on his "All life is precious" theory because surely that should include that you have to take into account the consequences of all your actions. Eastman was a smart enough man to know that it can't be that simplistic.


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