[Deadpelican]

I was thinking about how she could use the walkers.

 

She wouldn't necessarily have to directly attack the communities.

 

They need for the trade routes to stay open

 

She could take a few hundred walkers to infest the trade routes. The whisperers could blend in with them and when people come to clear the route, the whisperers take them out.

 

When we first meet Alpha, they are walking among zombies and surprise attack some humans. I think that's probably how they operate.

[Mr. NomNom]

All we have seen from hilltop is it's walls. I haven't seen any other defenses. This is one thing that i point out that irks me with the time jump. They didnt show an over view of communities. When we see the savoirs drop off heath it seems to be right by the gate to go into ASZ. As in no maze.

Rick grimes lost to Negan about 3 out of 4 times. Had Negan not want to toy with Rick, Rick would be dead. I don't understand why everyone is all about how badass he is when he loses and loses and gets lucky time after time. Had Kirkman stick to his guns Rick wouldn't even be alive by this point but he likes him too much to kill him off already.

Alpha is not Negan. She isn't under estimating anything. She is simply telling Rick, quit making threats. Especially ones you can't back up. She wants no trouble, however they keep going into the territory she asked them not to go into. She has proven herself she can slip into ASZ without even being noticed. Think about how this can come into play in the future. We don't know how long this fair will go on. She could send people in before it's over and have people on the inside. We don't know what kind of weapons she has.

Rick underestimated Negan by thinking he didn't have guns. Turns out he had more than guns he had grenades. Also once again, if i'm attacking it's at night. I would fund a way to get people in. At night they could catch a house or two on fire. While people are preoccupied with that you start to bring the herd through. Meanwhile people can find a way to destroy the gate and then you lead the herd through. It's just a simple strategy. It would be somewhat difficult to pull off. Not impossible though.

As for the herd that attacked ASZ that Rick and go destroyed, it wasn't even close to this size. We're talking thousands. Rick could barely kill 3 without getting exhausted.

If there is a conflict team Rick will pull through because well Kirkman likes to torture Rick. So i'm sure he wants him to suffer some more.

[That_Guy_From_NY]

All we have seen from hilltop is it's walls. I haven't seen any other defenses. This is one thing that i point out that irks me with the time jump. They didnt show an over view of communities. When we see the savoirs drop off heath it seems to be right by the gate to go into ASZ. As in no maze.
Rick grimes lost to Negan about 3 out of 4 times. Had Negan not want to toy with Rick, Rick would be dead. I don't understand why everyone is all about how badass he is when he loses and loses and gets lucky time after time. Had Kirkman stick to his guns Rick wouldn't even be alive by this point but he likes him too much to kill him off already.
Alpha is not Negan. She isn't under estimating anything. She is simply telling Rick, quit making threats. Especially ones you can't back up. She wants no trouble, however they keep going into the territory she asked them not to go into. She has proven herself she can slip into ASZ without even being noticed. Think about how this can come into play in the future. We don't know how long this fair will go on. She could send people in before it's over and have people on the inside. We don't know what kind of weapons she has.
Rick underestimated Negan by thinking he didn't have guns. Turns out he had more than guns he had grenades. Also once again, if i'm attacking it's at night. I would fund a way to get people in. At night they could catch a house or two on fire. While people are preoccupied with that you start to bring the herd through. Meanwhile people can find a way to destroy the gate and then you lead the herd through. It's just a simple strategy. It would be somewhat difficult to pull off. Not impossible though.
As for the herd that attacked ASZ that Rick and go destroyed, it wasn't even close to this size. We're talking thousands. Rick could barely kill 3 without getting exhausted.
If there is a conflict team Rick will pull through because well Kirkman likes to torture Rick. So i'm sure he wants him to suffer some more.

Still gonna have to disagree with you. Negan decided to keep Rick alive as part of his overall strategy, he behaved in the way he did thinking it was the best decision he could make. At the end of the day he lost, Rick out manuivered him and his strategy for dealing with Rick ultimately got his throat slit, lost him his group and got him locked up for 2 years. Bottom line, Negan underestimated Rick, slipped up and lost.

And yes, its a big herd, but zombies can be dealt with, especially if you know they are coming. Alpha is underestimating Rick as well, she thinks she can intimidate him. She's murdering people who happen to wander into her I'll defined "territory" and telling people that if they don't like it she'll murder them too. She doesn't get to just decide that then bully people into obeying her will. She has no idea the battles Rick and co have fought through and she's threatening to kill everyone and destroy everything he's worked for... and for what exactly? If she thinks she can just murder strangers with impunity and claim the entire world for herself while bullying people to stay in their lanes or be killed she's got another thing coming.

Now if she wasn't so needlessly murderous and if her crew was so rapey there wouldn't be a problem, but she likes to kill and is kinda looking for trouble.

[Deadpelican]

Still gonna have to disagree with you. Negan decided to keep Rick alive as part of his overall strategy, he behaved in the way he did thinking it was the best decision he could make. At the end of the day he lost, Rick out manuivered him and his strategy for dealing with Rick ultimately got his throat slit, lost him his group and got him locked up for 2 years. Bottom line, Negan underestimated Rick, slipped up and lost.

And yes, its a big herd, but zombies can be dealt with, especially if you know they are coming. Alpha is underestimating Rick as well, she thinks she can intimidate him. She's murdering people who happen to wander into her I'll defined "territory" and telling people that if they don't like it she'll murder them too. She doesn't get to just decide that then bully people into obeying her will. She has no idea the battles Rick and co have fought through and she's threatening to kill everyone and destroy everything he's worked for... and for what exactly? If she thinks she can just murder strangers with impunity and claim the entire world for herself while bullying people to stay in their lanes or be killed she's got another thing coming.

Now if she wasn't so needlessly murderous and if her crew was so rapey there wouldn't be a problem, but she likes to kill and is kinda looking for trouble.

 

I don't think the plan is to use that entire herd all at once.

 

I think the whisperers are a threat to Rick's group only when they are outside the walls.

 

They have to go outside the walls from time to time, and Alpha's group has the ability to blend in with a vast ocean of walkers. That's what makes them dangerous.

 

Rick's people think that this is just another group of zombies, go to clean them out, and suddenly their being stabbed and (maybe) shot at.

[Mr. NomNom]

Btw. For those who play the telltale games....when Rick said " I will remember this" i actually laughed.

[That_Guy_From_NY]

I don't think the plan is to use that entire herd all at once.

 

I think the whisperers are a threat to Rick's group only when they are outside the walls.

 

They have to go outside the walls from time to time, and Alpha's group has the ability to blend in with a vast ocean of walkers. That's what makes them dangerous.

 

Rick's people think that this is just another group of zombies, go to clean them out, and suddenly their being stabbed and (maybe) shot at.

That's a fair point, but that's why I think she tipped her hand to early. When she had the element of surpise on her side she was more dangerous, but now Rick and co know what to look for. Maybe Alpha will be something of a background villian... designed to make Zombies a little scarier again for the foreseeable future and not be really a main threat. I mean even though Alpha does have to go down at some point because she is just constantly murdering strangers for no reason; If more pressing matters end up taking center stage for Alexandria then Rick would probably just try to steer clear of Alpha until a conflict is forced. Neither side wants a war.

[Deadpelican]

That's a fair point, but that's why I think she tipped her hand to early. When she had the element of surpise on her side she was more dangerous, but now Rick and co know what to look for. Maybe Alpha will be something of a background villian... designed to make Zombies a little scarier again for the foreseeable future and not be really a main threat. I mean even though Alpha does have to go down at some point because she is just constantly murdering strangers for no reason; If more pressing matters end up taking center stage for Alexandria then Rick would probably just try to steer clear of Alpha until a conflict is forced. Neither side wants a war.

 

I don't see the whisperers being the next big enemy per se.   I'd like to see them as a recurring villains that the communities clash with from time to time followed by an unstable cease fire and occasional  are allies.

 

Basically a group that is manageable, but unpredictable.

[Macek11]

I don't see the whisperers being the next big enemy per se.   I'd like to see them as a recurring villains that the communities clash with from time to time followed by an unstable cease fire and occasional  are allies.
 
Basically a group that is manageable, but unpredictable.

Yeah this is what I'm thinking. Not exactly allies but not exactly full-time enemies.

I could see the two working together if there was some sort of mutual gain involved.

They're just a wildcard and something that changes things a bit. I don't think they will necessarily be involved in a full scale conflict but their very presence will cause and and expand on the issues already going on internally is what I'm thinking.

[JesusMonroe]

I think that's a little too optimistic

 

Rick wants to move towards civilization--better off than the world they left behind. Alpha is the complete antithesis to what Rick is trying to accomplish

[Macek11]

I think that's a little too optimistic

 

Rick wants to move towards civilization--better off than the world they left behind. Alpha is the complete antithesis to what Rick is trying to accomplish

 

As optimistic as that sounds I don't think its completely possible to be better than the world they left behind, you can be at about the same level, but its really difficult to be even better. The more advanced you become, it inevitably brings more problems. As opposed to Alpha and her group, who don't really have to deal with those issues because their way of life is so much simpler.

 

Rick's way potentially causes much more internal strife, while Alpha's hardly causes any from what we've seen. Alpha's way of doing things might seem dumb and unethical, but overall they have a lot less to deal with Rick that's for sure. Historically less advanced groups/civilizations have also been more egalitarian than those who were more advanced. I think we're gonna see even more of the contrast between these 2 groups in the future.

 

Rick thinks he's dealing with a bunch of savages, and he's reacting the way Kirkman wants everyone to react. He needs to realize that they're just a product of the environment, they've just adapted in a different way.  

 

Rick's way isn't the only successful way of living in this world. Alpha's has no doubt been successful no matter how barbaric it may seem. 

 

While Alpha may be the complete opposite of what Rick is trying to do, that doesn't mean Rick can't work with her if he recognizes some benefit from that interaction. He really needs to put that aside if he really wants to be better off.

 

Unless they do something really bad, which in that case, yeah that ain't happening... I don't think they will work together anytime soon, since Alpha has clearly stated that they want to be left alone. I still think it will be some sort of a unsteady truce/agreement, with Carl and Lydia's relationship possibly being a big part of that. But if anyone important on Team Rick gets killed, its on.

[Chryz707]

The Whisperers would really have to take out the patrols before they unleash that herd on ASZ or  the other communities.  I also think this is where Negan will somehow say to the communities, See Rick cant protect you like I can!   The Saviors were able to protect you...   I somehow think Negan will be the one to save the communities from this threat for some reason.  Maybe he knew about the whisperers before and has never said anything about them.  

[Mr. NomNom]

I don't think he knew about them. Weren't the whisperers traveling and then ran into some of the patrol by accident? I thought that's how it went down.

[ThatEpicBeast U Know]

I don't think he knew about them. Weren't the whisperers traveling and then ran into some of the patrol by accident? I thought that's how it went down.

 

     Yes.  Ken and Marco were out of bounds and found some horses, lost their horse, and had to travel on foot.  During their trip to get back to the Hilltop, it was raining and they hid in a ditch.  They heard whispers and they fled to a barn off-panel and Marco left Ken in there.  When Rick and Carl made it to the Hilltop, so the latter can become a blacksmith (We saw how well that turned out), Marco was brought in to Doctor Carson and he said that "there were whispers and I was afraid" and that the dead were speaking.  Rick says to Carl that Marco clearly lost his mind, and then it's basically forgotten until Issue #142, when Maggie And Jesus bring up the news at the fair.  After Marco told Maggie about Ken's last whereabouts, Dante, Doug, and Rick Impersonator went out to find Ken, but were attacked by an estimated two dozen roamers (Was that attack planned by The Whisperers??), and that's when Dante was also captured.  In Issue #134, Jesus, Darius, and two other Alexandrians went out for their patrol (Unknown about The Whisperers' attacks on the Hilltop-pers) and that's when Jesus brought the second news of The Whisperers, and a hostage, Lydia.

[Deadpelican]

I think that's a little too optimistic

 

Rick wants to move towards civilization--better off than the world they left behind. Alpha is the complete antithesis to what Rick is trying to accomplish

 

Yes she is, but because of their primitive ways, I don't think Alpha's community could really win.

 

I see this as colonists vs. natives, basically.

 

I think it possible that the communities themselves may clash at some point.

 

I could see something similar to the French and Indian war taking place, with Alpha's people filling the role of the Indians.

[DaneBramage]

How can you know the boundries when they are not marked? What did they look at the land and say "CLAIMED!!!!"?

[Mr. NomNom]

Well they have boundries. My guess is alpha knew this. To be honest i don't think this is the first time she dealt with people living in a small community. She knows the patrol can't go too far from home so she just told them stay off our land. Meaning Rick and co's out of bounds.

Now saying Alpha ran into people before is a stretch she has talked about places collapsing before ( maybe she meant historically ) still i think they may have had a skirmish or two. Rick and co had plenty before they settled down. She has been out there 2-3 yrs longer, theres no way you're telling me they haven't had a few battles.

[Macek11]

Yes she is, but because of their primitive ways, I don't think Alpha's community could really win.

 

I see this as colonists vs. natives, basically.

 

I think it possible that the communities themselves may clash at some point.

 

I could see something similar to the French and Indian war taking place, with Alpha's people filling the role of the Indians.

 

I mainly just see many parallels to sedentary vs nomadic societies throughout history.