Thieves: Kill, Punish Or Mercy?

- - - - - Noah Season 5

#1
Rocketman637

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So with Noah, not considering information found out later, was Daryl right in stopping Carrol from killing Noah? What would you do? Would your decision be different with the perp's age?


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#2
hannsg

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kill

 

he took weapons and left them defenseless in a city and then set zeds on them 

he was a attempted-killer not just a thief

 

its not just a question of punishment but they had to get weapons back to survive 

 

Darly was wrong to block shot.


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#3
Edocil

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If it was a young person I would not kill.


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#4
SuperNeos2

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Depends. If they're young, then I would just leave them to fend for themselves after I stop them from taking my stuff, which would be by playing nice and then delivering a punch when close. I would then leave and leave them a weapon when I'm far enough from them. But if they come back for a second round, bye-bye. Older, I would kill right off the bat.
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#5
Rocketman637

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To be honest, seems like observation is forgotten about in the Walking Dead. Since Carrol had a revolver, makes sense to me to bring out the rifle after she crawled through the door, and didn't seem like she checked to see if there was any additional threats on the sky bridge. Despite his age, can't say I wouldn't have put a round in him, questioned him if he was still alive then ended him one way or another. In an open field with plenty of room to maneuver stealing the weapons was a dick move, but in the city with tight spaces and large numbers of walkers, for all intents and purposes, he killed them.


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#6
mosher

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He didn't kill them. The odds were extremely high that they would survive the walkers, he didn't make them give all weapons. 

 

It was obvious that he did not want to kill. In this world everyone is a thief. Everyone, if necessary. Daryl and Carol both would have done the same thing Noah did in the same situation. But they might have made more certain they weren't chased. Hard to assign a moral high ground when you know you're no different. 

 

He was good people, and Daryl knew that. Carol did too, but she also thinks 'us or them.' As Carol gets harder Daryl gets softer.

 

He threw at walker at Carol later because they were chasing him and he was afraid. She understood that and Daryl was thinking 'family first'. That switch in attitude was effective and perfect for the pair.

 

Don't kill the kid, recruit the resourceful guy or let it go. Or track him, beat him and get your weapons back if you're too paranoid to trust. 

 

Noah should have killed them, any other thief alone and desperate would. The fact that he didn't means he is good people. He's also naive, because Noah just left people robbed, armed, and angry. 


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#7
zombiekitten

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So with Noah, not considering information found out later, was Daryl right in stopping Carrol from killing Noah? What would you do? Would your decision be different with the perp's age?

I would kill every person not already in the group I came in contact with. I would not greet them, in fact, the less they see my group or me, the better. Shooting them in the back is the best way. Never let them see you.  


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#8
leegreenman

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I'd like to think I'd let him live but.....
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#9
zombiekitten

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I'd like to think I'd let him live but.....

But he would undoubtedly kill you the first chance he got. Kill or be killed. You're the butcher or the cow. 


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#10
Clidna

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Yeah, that worked out terrifically for the butchers, didn't it?


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#11
zombiekitten

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Yeah, that worked out terrifically for the butchers, didn't it?

Um, you forget, they made their place a 'sanctuary," and many were raped and slaughtered by some other bad people. Their mistake was trusting ANYONE not already in the group. Had they walled the place up, kept to themselves, not advertised they were there and not welcomed strangers, NONE of the Terminus story would have happened the way it did. You're talking about the difference between television and reality. In reality, you kill everyone you can, because everyone is a threat. If you go in with the "everyone is innocent until proven guilty" idea in that context, it's a quick slide down a short hill into the mouth of hell. Conversely, I'd kill anyone who tried to welcome me or my group in. For the same reasons. Steal their resources. Why POOL resources, when you can take them ALL for yourself? 

Y'all don't understand, TWD is television. In human reality, things would be horrifyingly different. Just people would be horrifying. Go see the movie "Apocalypse Now," and watch the sampan scene. 


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#12
Clidna

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I've seen Apocalypse Now, it's one of my favourite movies. I remember how it ends, too.


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#13
Rocketman637

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One reason I like TWD is the human aspect of it. You wouldn't be able to survive long if you just isolated yourself. Eventually, someone will show up with more man and firepower and end you, not to mention needing other people with skills you don't have. You won't have google and youtube to help you stumble through skills on the fly. You by yourself or part of a small group only gets you so far. It's a double edged sword. A lot of people are bad, some will help you. Almost all will be desperate. How are you going to sort the good from the bad? The useless from the useful?


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#14
zombiekitten

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I've seen Apocalypse Now, it's one of my favourite movies. I remember how it ends, too.

I suspect you need to see the sampan scene again. Willard tells the Chief to leave the sampan be, let 'em go, but no the Chief has to go by the book and thus, all the people on the sampan get killed. Kind of reverse from TWD but the same idea. Leave well enough alone or kill them all. 


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#15
zombiekitten

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One reason I like TWD is the human aspect of it. You wouldn't be able to survive long if you just isolated yourself. Eventually, someone will show up with more man and firepower and end you, not to mention needing other people with skills you don't have. You won't have google and youtube to help you stumble through skills on the fly. You by yourself or part of a small group only gets you so far. It's a double edged sword. A lot of people are bad, some will help you. Almost all will be desperate. How are you going to sort the good from the bad? The useless from the useful?

I'm not. I'm killing them all and taking my chances. Remember the Monty Python skit about the advantages of not being seen? There was a lesson in there, for those smart enough to see it. 


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#16
DominusPisces

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Um, you forget, they made their place a 'sanctuary," and many were raped and slaughtered by some other bad people. Their mistake was trusting ANYONE not already in the group. Had they walled the place up, kept to themselves, not advertised they were there and not welcomed strangers, NONE of the Terminus story would have happened the way it did. You're talking about the difference between television and reality. In reality, you kill everyone you can, because everyone is a threat. If you go in with the "everyone is innocent until proven guilty" idea in that context, it's a quick slide down a short hill into the mouth of hell. Conversely, I'd kill anyone who tried to welcome me or my group in. For the same reasons. Steal their resources. Why POOL resources, when you can take them ALL for yourself? 

Y'all don't understand, TWD is television. In human reality, things would be horrifyingly different. Just people would be horrifying. Go see the movie "Apocalypse Now," and watch the sampan scene. 

 

Hmmmmm too bad your attitude would ultimately doom humanity. You HAVE heard of genetic drift and genetic Diversity right? If Rick's group found some place perfect and walled themselves in it, eventually everyone in the group would find themselves too related to safely breed with each other. Genetic problems would creep in and with no new... ahem 'stock' you would have one sickly group of people who all look a little too close to the family tree. If the prison flu was bad... the second a disease came around that could kill one, it would kill ALL of them.

 

Also Rick's group recruited and they were working fine. The prison would have been fine if not for T.G. returning. Plus.. who's going to be a doctor? You are completely wrong. Maybe not zombies but apocolyspes HAVE happened. Barbarian raids... plagues, volcanoes, massive floods.... Things that have literally ended countries. People banded together for safety. If people took your approach Europe would never have recovered from the Bubonic Plague and we likely would not be here now.

 

Anyways.... I hate to say it... but I would have dropped Noah when he tried to rob from me. Those weapons were tools of survival. Now then... if my aim was bad and I missed him and THEN came across him trapped under the book case, I probably would have saved him and told him to go the ***k away.


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#17
ZedHead

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I'm not. I'm killing them all and taking my chances. Remember the Monty Python skit about the advantages of not being seen? There was a lesson in there, for those smart enough to see it.


-dies on first day of apocalypse-
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#18
ZedHead

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And if you kill everyone you meet, then what's the point of living?
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#19
zombiekitten

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So with Noah, not considering information found out later, was Daryl right in stopping Carrol from killing Noah? What would you do? Would your decision be different with the perp's age?

No, Daryl was wrong to stop Carol from killing Noah. I would have killed Noah (or any other living person) on sight. 


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#20
Clidna

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I suspect you need to see the sampan scene again. Willard tells the Chief to leave the sampan be, let 'em go, but no the Chief has to go by the book and thus, all the people on the sampan get killed. Kind of reverse from TWD but the same idea. Leave well enough alone or kill them all. 

 

You kill everyone, you aren't going to have a group. People travelling alone or in pairs, will not survive in this world. There's power in numbers.


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#21
zombiekitten

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Hmmmmm too bad your attitude would ultimately doom humanity. You HAVE heard of genetic drift and genetic Diversity right? If Rick's group found some place perfect and walled themselves in it, eventually everyone in the group would find themselves too related to safely breed with each other. Genetic problems would creep in and with no new... ahem 'stock' you would have one sickly group of people who all look a little too close to the family tree. If the prison flu was bad... the second a disease came around that could kill one, it would kill ALL of them.

 

Also Rick's group recruited and they were working fine. The prison would have been fine if not for T.G. returning. Plus.. who's going to be a doctor? You are completely wrong. Maybe not zombies but apocolyspes HAVE happened. Barbarian raids... plagues, volcanoes, massive floods.... Things that have literally ended countries. People banded together for safety. If people took your approach Europe would never have recovered from the Bubonic Plague and we likely would not be here now.

 

Anyways.... I hate to say it... but I would have dropped Noah when he tried to rob from me. Those weapons were tools of survival. Now then... if my aim was bad and I missed him and THEN came across him trapped under the book case, I probably would have saved him and told him to go the ***k away.

First of all, you're assuming I think the end of humanity is a bad thing. Not smart to make assumptions. Second, how are you going to tell the good from the bad? TWD is TELEVISION. You cannot base real-world notions on television, unless you have a death wish. As to biodiversity and all that, survival in the moment trumps all. If you were part of my group, and expressing these ideas, I'd tell you it's up to you to figure out if those people won't kill YOU. You want to trust people, you can be the welcome wagon, but you better figure them out AND disarm them before you reveal the location of the camp. 


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#22
Singlyme

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I think I would have winged him to stop him - taken back the weapons - handed him a bandaid - and moved along.


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#23
DominusPisces

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First of all, you're assuming I think the end of humanity is a bad thing. Not smart to make assumptions. Second, how are you going to tell the good from the bad? TWD is TELEVISION. You cannot base real-world notions on television, unless you have a death wish. As to biodiversity and all that, survival in the moment trumps all. If you were part of my group, and expressing these ideas, I'd tell you it's up to you to figure out if those people won't kill YOU. You want to trust people, you can be the welcome wagon, but you better figure them out AND disarm them before you reveal the location of the camp. 

 

I would imagine the death of your species should be considered a bad thing. Also groups need to grow. How are you going to learn everything you need? I hope to God your doctor doesn't die. The second someone knicks their cheek shaving staph can set in and kill. There is actually real world precedent for that. Oh right... my next point.

Sorry Kitten I can and WILL use real world parallels. 

 

Y'all don't understand, TWD is television. In human reality, things would be horrifyingly different. Just people would be horrifying. Go see the movie "Apocalypse Now," and watch the sampan scene. 

 

Since you decided to say things would be different in reality, I get to use reality to prove or disprove your assumption. Reality proves you ultimately wrong. I have no problem being PART of the welcome wagon. I tend to be a good judge of character. For instance, the second you start trying to whip the group into a blood thirsty band of xenophobic, incestuous, marauders I would have you put out or put down. Your choice. Your misanthropic fantasy has no basis in reality. Certainly SOME groups would be like Joe's or Terminus just like there were comparable groups in history. Yet we are still chugging away. The fall of Rome the Dark Ages, The Great Depression, Nazi Germany history has shown time and time again that if we all aren't wiped out, humanity will come together and rebuild... maybe imperfectly but rebuild we will.


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Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray thee Lord these bites aren't deep.
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#24
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You know, I have always thought that TWD often goes a little too far when depicting the human condition.  Then, I read Internet comments and I completely understand.  Everyone on the show is concerned about losing their humanity 3 years into a zombie apocalypse after being forced to do some really bad things.  Some people on this board have lost their humanity already. 

 

Noah could have easily killed Daryl and Carol, but didn't.  In fact, he made a point of saying he didn't want to hurt anyone and he wasn't doing it without a smile on his face like the Governor or the Termites which is key in my book.  It's obvious to me that they did the right thing by letting him go.  I would have done the same thing because to do otherwise would have taken away a lot more from me than just a crossbow and a rifle.  Weapons are easily replaced, your humanity is not. 


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#25
NaarioDaharis

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Well, I'm a real tough guy on the internet, so I KNOW I would totally kill that kid.

 

But seriously, its not that he took my weapons, I could actually empathize with his situation.

 

It was that he was so smarmy while doing it. What a little prick! (plus, I have the knowledge that he totally ditched Beth last time we saw him).

 

This character is not looking good. I imagine Beth will have something to say about his teamwork skills.

 

In the heat of the moment, I may hurt him. ESPECIALLY after he sicks those walkers on me. 

 

The only reason Daryl didn't kill him, really, is because of plot.

 

Remember when he murdered that tank guy in cold blood at the prison? Daaaaang


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