Carl Is Open Game

- - - - - Carl Rick Judith

#1
Dead Gov Walking

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It's probably been said before, but I got to thinking while rewatching Strangers....with Judith still alive, Carl becomes open game. 

Now it used to be, in both the comics and the show, I felt if Carl were to die, he's taking Rick with him. There would be no way in hell Rick would be able to keep going in that situation, and considering TWD is pretty much Rick's story, I felt there was just about 0% chance of Carl dying for just that reason.

But now with Judith in the mix...I think that 0% chance gets a bit of a boost. Not much mind you, but enough. 


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#2
Lurwalker

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I see your point but still think it is highly unlikely to come about.  I think that if Carl were ever to get bite or be killed it would be in the last few episodes before the show would finally end.  Carl has a lot of plot armor built around him so he isn't going away any time soon.


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#3
Lioness

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Judith would have to be at least 10 or 12 (how old were Lizzie and Mika?) before she could start fending for herself. That is a long time off. I actually would not mind a massive time jump if it meant we could get rid of Carl. Carl (as written) is just painful to watch. I would think he'd be a great deal more jaded by now. I can't see how he can conclude that not everyone is bad when it comes to strangers. From a child's perspective, everyone they have encountered recently has either tried to shoot him, rape him, or eat him. That would kind a of shut down the sunny disposition in a kid's mind, I'd suppose.


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#4
Logan

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I disagree. I think there are only 2 really safe characters: Daryl and Carl. I think even Rick could go at some point. I haven't read the comics or anything so I have no real basis for this except my gut feeling. I actually think it might be interesting to see how the group functions without a real leader.


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#5
Stinky3377

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Not sure about Carl but I think if they really wanted to end the series they'd kill Rick.  Just my .02

 

Also I could see Daryl "leaving" not necesarrily being killed.  Maybe look like he was killed but come back in a couple of seasons a-la '24'.


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#6
moop420

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I always thought it would make the show more interesting to off Carl, but then again I'm a comic reader and large part of Carl's charm is the fact that he's like 8 years old throughout the bulk of the story so far. 13-year old TV Carl just isn't anywhere near as appealing.

 

I also think it would be more interesting to keep Judith alive on the show since they decided to scrub her and Lori's comic death.


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#7
mosher

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I think Judith will die, sadly, at some point when everything is perfect. Great good destroyed by great bad.

 

Carl will survive until he wants off the show. At his age that could happen at any time. Many shows have lost kids because the kid wants out. A child's contract is never as binding either.  They won't end the show if that happened, so Rick would carry on. I don't know how they do renewals, but this show is very popular and AMC is tight fisted, so I could see contract negotiations leading to deaths of popular people as well.

 

I would watch if Rick died. TWD has ensured that I care about several character now and I would still want to follow their story as long as the writing and acting stayed strong.

 

Of course AMC will work hard to ensure that Lincoln wants to stay, and I imagine that's true of all the super popular characters. But popular people will die, the fact they die is another reason why the show is popular. It's a tough balancing act for AMC.


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#8
Serenity@sea

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Did anyone else notice how much Chandler has grown over the break? I've said before that it doesn't bother me because it's the nature of the beast hormonal teenager, but it helps if they just simply acknowledge that he is a growing boy.

 

25u1yyd.jpg


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#9
KillThemWalkers

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I don't think they'll kill off Carl.  The comic at its core is a father/son story.  The show has veered away from that, but I don't think they'll get rid of him.  

I do agree with Serenity Sea, they somehow need to acknowledge Chandler Riggs is clearly bigger than last season.  They will need a good time jump between season 5 & 6.  I think Chandler is about 15 now.  He is going to be having a good growth spurt in the next year.  


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#10
Dead Gov Walking

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Did anyone else notice how tall Chandler has got over the break? I've said before that it doesn't bother me because it's the nature of the beast hormonal teenager, but it helps if they just simply acknowledge that he is a growing boy.

 

25u1yyd.jpg

yeah. certainly getting bigger.

 

and hey, never noticed Abe working on the bus in the background there


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#11
Singlyme

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When they were back on Hershell's farm, I would have helped them kill Carl.  He was an obnoxious kid who needed a good ass-whuppin' or ear-cleaning to make him mind. 

 

If they keep writing him as they did during this episode, I'd be sad to see him go.  I hope they keep the deaths away from the inner circle, Rick, Carl, Daryl, and Carol.  While I appreciate the intelligence and prowess of both Glenn and Maggie, I've grown detached from both.  And Beth?  Don't necessarily want her back. 


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#12
etphoto

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I think Judith has a greater chance to bite the big one than Carl. Carl is safe. Sent from my DX4860 using Tapatalk
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#13
Stinky3377

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I have a feeling both Judith and Tyrese will get it at the same time.  He just seems so attached to her and will die defending her.


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#14
Singlyme

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Unless they want Rick to go over a cliff, they will NOT kill Judith!


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#15
d2daybreak

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I think Judith is their backup in case Chandler leaves the show, Carl's popularity drops, or they have some scenes he is just to old for. I say his popularity drops because I am convinced that is why Lori and Andrea were killed off so soon. Since then, the other characters, like Carl have had significant changes to make them more likeable (i. e. Carol, Michonne, and Beth, okay, not so much Beth, which is why I expect Beth to die at the end of this story arc.) Also, I think they are keeping Judith to replace Carl in those scenes from the comic that are still great scenes, but need a younger character for maximum impact. Or even for new scenarios that the writers think up that Judith is better suited for than Carl because of his age now.
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#16
hannsg

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Did anyone else notice how much Chandler has grown over the break? I've said before that it doesn't bother me because it's the nature of the beast hormonal teenager, but it helps if they just simply acknowledge that he is a growing boy.

 

 

they should get swap in a new actor IMO

its day 513 on the TWD but in in reality 4 years plus has passed.


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#17
etphoto

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I think Judith is their backup in case Chandler leaves the show, Carl's popularity drops, or they have some scenes he is just to old for. I say his popularity drops because I am convinced that is why Lori and Andrea were killed off so soon. Since then, the other characters, like Carl have had significant changes to make them more likeable (i. e. Carol, Michonne, and Beth, okay, not so much Beth, which is why I expect Beth to die at the end of this story arc.) Also, I think they are keeping Judith to replace Carl in those scenes from the comic that are still great scenes, but need a younger character for maximum impact. Or even for new scenarios that the writers think up that Judith is better suited for than Carl because of his age now. I don't think so and I only say this because Judith is too young to replace Carl. They would have to have a 10 year span go by between seasons.
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#18
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I think Judith is their backup in case Chandler leaves the show, Carl's popularity drops, or they have some scenes he is just to old for. I say his popularity drops because I am convinced that is why Lori and Andrea were killed off so soon. Since then, the other characters, like Carl have had significant changes to make them more likeable (i. e. Carol, Michonne, and Beth, okay, not so much Beth, which is why I expect Beth to die at the end of this story arc.) Also, I think they are keeping Judith to replace Carl in those scenes from the comic that are still great scenes, but need a younger character for maximum impact. Or even for new scenarios that the writers think up that Judith is better suited for than Carl because of his age now.

 

I do think that there is some truth behind the show killing off unpopular characters. However, Carl has generated a lot of heat (I hesitate to use hate, but it's probably true) and has never been very popular. Especially back in Season 2. I remember him topping some "Most annoying characters" lists.

It feels to me that they are trying to work on his character to make him less annoying and part of it is a natural character progression.

they should get swap in a new actor IMO

its day 513 on the TWD but in in reality 4 years plus has passed.

I think it is way more jarring to replace one actor for another than it is to see a teen with a growth spurt.

He's playing someone close to his own age, so all they have to do is mention that he's going through a growth spurt to make it less awkward, IMO.

As I mentioned before, it doesn't bother me. Both of my sons are very tall, so during their teenage years, I'd swear that they would wake up taller than the night before. haha


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#19
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I will say that Chandler RIggs needs to improve his acting a bit.

 

Sometimes he's fine ( sometimes he's excellent ) but sometimes he's not so good. It's just makes cringe more often than it should.

 

He's fine for now but if he's ever the lead in the show, he'll need to improve.


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#20
Singlyme

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I think Judith is their backup in case Chandler leaves the show, Carl's popularity drops, or they have some scenes he is just to old for. I say his popularity drops because I am convinced that is why Lori and Andrea were killed off so soon. Since then, the other characters, like Carl have had significant changes to make them more likeable (i. e. Carol, Michonne, and Beth, okay, not so much Beth, which is why I expect Beth to die at the end of this story arc.) Also, I think they are keeping Judith to replace Carl in those scenes from the comic that are still great scenes, but need a younger character for maximum impact. Or even for new scenarios that the writers think up that Judith is better suited for than Carl because of his age now.

 

Andrea was a great character before the writers decided to make her unbelievably stupid.  I couldn't stand Carl on season two.  He's much more likeable this go-round.


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#21
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Carl is supposed to be a teenager, right?  I know that my own niece went from last June's awkward, kinda plump, 5'2" Jo to a gorgeous taller than me and I'm 5'6" pin up worthy young lady in June of this year  That was 14 to 15.  It's disturbing but normal.  Carl's turning from a child into an almost adult is not at all jarring to me and doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show.  At that age, that happens.  It is weird to see S-1 and S-2 Carl and now S-4 and S-5 but between last and this season, I'm not at all surprised at his growth. 

 

As for Judith taking Carl's place, that seems far fetched.  She is a baby.  How long will the show last?  I hope for a long run but can't see it lasting forever.  I'm glad (or hope) that disrespectful Carl is GONE.  That shit pissed me off.


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#22
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I think Judith is their backup in case Chandler leaves the show, Carl's popularity drops, or they have some scenes he is just to old for. I say his popularity drops because I am convinced that is why Lori and Andrea were killed off so soon. Since then, the other characters, like Carl have had significant changes to make them more likeable (i. e. Carol, Michonne, and Beth, okay, not so much Beth, which is why I expect Beth to die at the end of this story arc.) Also, I think they are keeping Judith to replace Carl in those scenes from the comic that are still great scenes, but need a younger character for maximum impact. Or even for new scenarios that the writers think up that Judith is better suited for than Carl because of his age now.

 

I don't think so and I only say this because Judith is too young to replace Carl. They would have to have a 10 year span go by between seasons.

 

 

Carl is supposed to be a teenager, right?  I know that my own niece went from last June's awkward, kinda plump, 5'2" Jo to a gorgeous taller than me and I'm 5'6" pin up worthy young lady in June of this year  That was 14 to 15.  It's disturbing but normal.  Carl's turning from a child into an almost adult is not at all jarring to me and doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show.  At that age, that happens.  It is weird to see S-1 and S-2 Carl and now S-4 and S-5 but between last and this season, I'm not at all surprised at his growth. 

 

As for Judith taking Carl's place, that seems far fetched.  She is a baby.  How long will the show last?  I hope for a long run but can't see it lasting forever.  I'm glad (or hope) that disrespectful Carl is GONE.  That shit pissed me off.

 

If they keep having time jumps to accommodate Chandler's growth (and I think they will for the next two hiatuses, at least), then it will not be long before Judith is old enough to take Carl's place. Carl is only 7 when the comic starts. If they have a time jump during the next hiatus, Judith will begin S6 ~2-3 years old, and after the next hiatus, she could easily begin S7 ~4-5 years old. At 5 years old, I think Judith could begin to fill in for Carl. Not to mention that by that time Carl (nor Chandler) will be a kid anymore. He will a young man of about 17/18. At that point, even if Carl stays, they will still need someone to play "Rick's kid" on the show. Who better than Judith?

 

As for for the future of the series, TWD is not going anywhere any time soon after breaking another ratings record with over 17/21 million viewers depending on how you are measuring. TPTB renewed the show for S6 before the season started and that record breaking premiere all but assures of a S7. When shows are being renewed with a third of that viewership, I see TWD easily being around a few more years. The producers have already shared that they have enough material and have basically already plotted out through S12.

 

I say all that to say that in just a couple of years, I can see Judith being used to cover material Carl couldn't because Chandler aged to quickly for them to cover it.

 

I do think that there is some truth behind the show killing off unpopular characters. However, Carl has generated a lot of heat (I hesitate to use hate, but it's probably true) and has never been very popular. Especially back in Season 2. I remember him topping some "Most annoying characters" lists.

It feels to me that they are trying to work on his character to make him less annoying and part of it is a natural character progression.

 

I agree that they are trying to work on Carl's character, but if they are unable to succeed (fans are a fickle bunch), I can see Carl being killed off, especially if Judith becomes a very popular character. I can see that happening too, especially if they cast a gifted young actress like Maisie Williams or a young Dakota Flanning.

 

Once Judith is 3-4, I think it will be very interesting to watch her grow up and see how she processes the world, especially since she won't have any memory of the pre-ZA world and the type of humanity her babysitter Tyreese is trying to hold onto. Will she be like Sophia/Mika, Lizzie, Carl, or someone altogether different, especially with Rick now embracing his brutality and trying to balance that with his humanity? Maybe Judith will be able to succeed on that front. Maybe not. My vote is for someone altogether different. That in my opinion would be the most interesting to watch.


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#23
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Chandler's acting has improved a ton in the last several episodes, I still think he's getting there and I have liked the character more since his 'monster' chat with Michonne. 

 

To be honest Chandler's growth doesn't bother me. He's at the perfect age for suddenly getting bigger and I'm not bothered by it. Maybe they can spend a year in an underground bunker at season's end to catch him up. But if they don't I'm fine. Chandler can grow and I'll suspend for it. It's not like a twelve year old is playing an eight year old and grows six inches by the time the character is nine. His character is in puberty so it works. 

 

I would worry about doing time jumps well. The time jumps would have to be significant, but I am not at all opposed if the writers nail it. For one, everyone gets to catch up to their age again. For two, it allows team Rick to have a happy place for extended periods. Those would likely happen, but they aren't what the show is about and therefore having those happen off season makes sense.  They would have to work it right. Two to Four years of sweet living in an off season must be constructed in such a way that we buy the safety and believe the loss of that safety that would inevitable begin at episode one of the following season.

 

I'm the sort of guy that likes those quiet nice stories too, but this show has to skip those months if it wants to stay number one.


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#24
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mosher, I completely agree with your post.  Since I don't read the comics, Carl's age is irrelevant to me.  I'm especially in tune with your second paragraph.

 

I seem to be internally (as a mother of three) hung up with Judith learning to walk, and the idea of trying to keep a toddler on a leash.  That little girl is going to need walls and a floor.  Her legs will atrophy if she's constantly carried.  And once she can walk, that's when the crying would start with her annoyance at being confined in someone's arms. The birth of Judith has saddled the writers with quite the problem.  We need enough of a time jump to get her on her feet and able to run.


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#25
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Two reason's Carl last the show's duration:

1) He is the closest thing since Dale to being a moral compass

 

2) It's HIS story. I think the show's ending will directly involve him.


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