All Out War: Part Two (Volume 21) Review

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#1
JesusMonroe

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What did you guys think of All Out War part 2? (Feel free to also talk about part 1, because this is basically one large volume, so talk about the lasting impression of the entire arc)


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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#2
The Walking Shooter

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I enjoyed the first half of AOW a hell of a lot better than the second.

In the first half, so much happened and development to minor characters were handed out like candy. Holly's interactions with Negan was one of my favourite scenes in the comics, and the destruction of Alexandria was pretty cool as well. Maggie and her speech as well as Ezekiel's shame were also the highlights.

However, the second half lacked that punch that was needed. It seemed like things were drawn out more. Like Negan attacked the hilltop, retreated, attacked again, retreated and tried to attack again. Did we really need that?

And the invention of the space age weaponry was pure lazy. How many times have they faced a zombie to have it's blood and guts spilled on them. The Governor kissed Penny, the Hunters eat Dale's leg. They all should have turned, so how come this idea was going to work. And then it actually did, and not even with a major character (no I'm kinda grateful on that one)

I feel this is the last volume before the actual rebuilding of civilisation begins. I hope Kirkman makes promise on his never ending zombie movie, because we never get to seem them rebuild civilisation in movies.

And I loved the fact Negan lived. Totally unexpected, but I'm 50/50 on it. The things that fucker did was downright evil, so why not shoot him in his sleep. They'll still be civilised, and go to sleep at bed at night without some madman running after them with a baseball bat.
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#3
Gravelord

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The first part of AOW was much better, a lot of good stuff happened there. I just wish I could say the same for this volume, it was a lot of filler and anti-climaxes. Negan attacking the Hilltop needed some Benny Hill music to accompany it because it was just laughable how many times Negan was outsmarted. It makes you question how he managed to keep the communities in line in the first place. 

 

The ending to the 12 issue arc was just downright anti-climactic, though it had a redeeming and surprising factor of Negan surviving. I can only hope this will not be left in the dust and will play a big part in establishing future conflicts.

 

Easily the best part of the volume was Eugene. His interactions with Dwight, Carson and Negan were fantastic and his development path has been something very amazing to watch, I hope Rosita follows suit. I also really liked Denise and Nicholas' deaths, but do they really feel like the big deaths the arc was promoting them as being?

 

Anyway, long story short, I liked the volume and thought it was a pretty good read. Kirkman just overhyped it massively and the advertising for the issues contained in the volumes was just too much. Kirkman really was his own worst enemy here. So yeah, pretty good with a lot of disappoints due to overhyping by Kirkman and co. #UNTHINKABLE! 


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Rudy5.png "Let the slaughter begin..."


#4
theblackboxlies

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Kirkman as a businessman kind of has to hype his product. Who would buy something that was promoted as being boring or predictable?
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#5
Gravelord

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Kirkman as a businessman kind of has to hype his product. Who would buy something that was promoted as being boring or predictable?

Oh I understand that, it is just that I think hyping this arc to be something it wasn't was a bad idea. 90% of people's reactions to this arc have been those of disappointment. I would have liked if this arc wasn't hyped to be the biggest and most important arc in the series, rather just a major stepping stone for the characters. If something like that was said, it would have caused a probable drop of disappointed readers...and I guarantee some of those readers are considering dropping the series (not that I agree with the notion). 


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Rudy5.png "Let the slaughter begin..."


#6
ThatEpicBeast U Know

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I loved it.  Especially the last two issues.


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YouTube channel: https://www.youtube....suSrDxf3qF6z34w (Epic A)


#7
Dead Gov Walking

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I'd give it maybe a 4/10.
5/10 max

I really didn't enjoy the AoW arc, save for 125.

Overhyped, anticlimactic, at times cheesy...
This is easily my least favorite arc of the series.


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#8
PorkTornado75

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4/10 for me would have been at least a 8/10 with a good ending.


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#9
JesusMonroe

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If you told me back in issue 121 that 121 would be my favorite issue of the volume, I wouldn't believe you

 

Issue 121 was my favorite issue of the volume. It was originally 125, but that was ruined by 126

 

Actually think about it. The group left Alexandria, Eugene was in peril, we had the surprisingly emotional death of Denise, and Rick left Lori's phone behind; a huge milestone for his character

 

I wouldn't say that this is my least favorite arc of the series, but issue 126 was easily my least favorite. Absolutely disgusting. Maggie acts disgustingly out of character, the group has a disgusting interpretation of Glenn's wants (Glenn would want this), the cult-like Saviors who had an attachment towards Negan now follow a new leader who picks up his bat, and I'm disgusted with Rick right now

 

I think Kirkman is losing a handle on Rick's character to be honest (though it's not as bad as the show). Rick has had missteps, but looking at his development as a whole has been pretty solid. Now, Rick keeps bouncing between cold survivor, depressed parent, and optimistic leader. It's getting confusing. I could buy Rick deciding to try to reestablish civilization in some way and deciding to keep the villain in a prison instead of killing them, but not at this point. It's one thing to choose to imprison a villain instead of executing them. It's another to save their life

 

Some people have said this volume will read better as a whole but I'm finding it doubtful. Some parts will be downright confusing ("Oh no! Dwight shot Rick with an infected b-... oh. No he didn't")

 

Anyway, despite my complaints (and I do still think 126 is the worst of the series), I can see good things coming out of this issue. Negan being prisoner has a lot of potential. I don't think he'll escape but he'll definitely put Rick in a position where he has to sacrifice the remnants of his humanity again. We can have some very believable tension between the community leaders now (and a new one is coming up). Not everyone will be happy with Negan alive

 

I believe Kirkman when he says what was coming after All Out War would be better than the war itself

 

Part 1: 8/10

Part 2: 4/10

Overall: 6/10


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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#10
PorkTornado75

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Keeping Negan as a prisoner hmmmmm kinda sounds a bit like that lame ass plot line from the tv show when they kept Randell i think his name was prisoner.

 

Will we get the same types of conflicts with Negan being prisoner...........Yes Yes we will.

 

"I want Negan dead!" -Carl  , "I want Randell dead!" -Shane

 

Maybe we can have a cheesy ass council meeting to vote on Negan`s execution!


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#11
JesusMonroe

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It's a bit of a different situation. The group didn't know if Randall was bad or not and the show pussed out by not having Rick be the one to make the hard choice and kill him

Negan is a bad guy. We'll get jail cell talks, moral dilemmas, group conflict (different than Randall), and Negan being reduced to the lowest form of humanity when he has to sleep with a bucket of his own shit next to him
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#12
Dead Gov Walking

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Maybe how they executed it was kinda iffy/'cheesy'

but the scenario itself was anything but


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#13
theblackboxlies

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It's a bit of a different situation. The group didn't know if Randall was bad or not and the show pussed out by not having Rick be the one to make the hard choice and kill him

Negan is a bad guy. We'll get jail cell talks, moral dilemmas, group conflict (different than Randall), and Negan being reduced to the lowest form of humanity when he has to sleep with a bucket of his own shit next to him

 

And no more wives! I bet he'll be pissed about that. 


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#14
PorkTornado75

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It's a bit of a different situation. The group didn't know if Randall was bad or not and the show pussed out by not having Rick be the one to make the hard choice and kill him

Negan is a bad guy. We'll get jail cell talks, moral dilemmas, group conflict (different than Randall), and Negan being reduced to the lowest form of humanity when he has to sleep with a bucket of his own shit next to him

I'm not saying its under the exact circumstances but very similar.

 

Negan being brought back down to earth woopie fucking do and why should we care ?

 

So he can become part of team Rick down the road a bit FUCK THAT FUCKITY FUCKING FUUUUUUUUUUUCK bullshit.


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#15
The Walking Shooter

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I'm not saying its under the exact circumstances but very similar.
 
Negan being brought back down to earth woopie fucking do and why should we care ?
 
So he can become part of team Rick down the road a bit FUCK THAT FUCKITY FUCKING FUUUUUUUUUUUCK bullshit.


I honestly don't understand why they are keeping Negan around in the first place. He's killed Glenn, Holly and indirectly Abraham, Eric, Denise and Nicholas amongst others. He destroyed their home and wanted to kill those who had the balls to stand up to him.

To be honest I think I would've enjoyed this volume better if Carl had killed Negan at the end. Would have made a great callback to the Ben/Billy fiasco.

I also find it ironic that a 100-odd issues ago Lori was the only one against killing Thomas Richards for murder. Now Rick and co. Are just like "yeah fuck he killed our people but we'll just chill and lock him up yo".
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#16
PorkTornado75

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It just proves how much Kirkman loves to write Negan i do not think he could bring himself to get rid of him yet.

 

That is the only reason i see this ending the way it did.


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#17
Dead Gov Walking

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"WOAH GUYS I HAVE SO MUCH FUN WRITING NEGAN!" 

Good for you, kirkman, but he's a pretty fucking boring and repetitive read


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#18
The Walking Shooter

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Yeah I think it's pretty bad that Kirkman's keeping this character just due to loving him. I hope he has something planned for him in the future that justifies his survival, otherwise Kirkman has officially sold out.
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#19
Cthulhu42

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AOW overall is probably my second-least favourite era of the series after Too Far Gone/No Way Out. It had some good parts, but as a whole was completely underwhelming and had a terrible conclusion.

It's a shame, because I loved the first half of the Saviour arc.
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#20
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I'll have to reread this arc again, and probably previous arcs as well, but I believe that this was a good arc. Certainly not the best but even Kirkman's worst adds up in the end. Granted, the story was hyped up and blah, blah, blah but Kirkman has to believe his writing, direction, and overall product is interesting, right?

 

Otherwise, I think this arc says a lot about the world Rick and co. inhabit--you certainly can't kill or punish every enemy, or every dissenter, but you can change their minds if you try.  Rick wants to send a message, and one that involves co-operation, and killing the (former) leader of the faction you are attempting to assimilate, does not send that message. Walking dead could be moving past the brutal deaths (for now) to show how society in this world may be able to evolve.  


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#21
FearTheHunters

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And no more wives! I bet he'll be pissed about that. 

Volume 22: The Prisoner Pumpkin


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#22
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I feel like this arc will be a lot better reading back to back, and Negan has so much potential for story so I'm happy hes sticking around personally.


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#23
EmptyTuxedo

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I'm going to re-read All Out War in one sitting. In fact, I'll definitely re-read 97-126 soon. Hell, I might even start at issue 1 again. It's been a while.

I thought all out war was ok.

I know there is a common complaint that some of the characters didn't have enough development, and that there was minimal impact when they died.

I actually think that whilst some of the deaths weren't as impacting as Hershels or as dramatic as Glenn/Tyreese, they were still largely at the right time for the characters.

Eric (I actually think as a character he was utilised well enough. His death will at least provide more development for Aaron)

Shiva (Was interesting when Shiva first appeared. Lost interest after that.)

Holly (Developed well during all out war, nice surprise death.)

Denise (Think Denise still had a few more issues in her, but the fact a few people are annoyed about this probably means Kirkman was right to do it.)

Kal (Probably the right time. His character came good.)

Nicholas (Am disappoint. I really liked Nicholas. I was even annoyed when he wasn't on the cover to issue 106, being replaced by Jesus. Hoped he'd be around for a long time.)

Heaths Leg (RIP. New runner required.)
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#24
aahe42

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My biggest problem with this whole arc and maybe even the previous arcs is Negan, its the only reason why The Saviors got to be around this long, Kirkman stretched those comics out so much by writing such awful dialogue for Negan.

I have no complaint over the bad things Negan does, and I believe he could of been a better character than the governor but Kirkman just got lazy and uses Negan dialogue to fill his comic panels.        

If All Out War focused more on the characters we care about it would have been a great arc. I don’t need deaths or shocking revelations I just want to see more development in the new/old group of survivors.

Maybe if they created an arc that made Negan seem less evil which could of been easily done when we got to see his compound. If they made it seem like he only did those bad thing because he had to. I know many people can argue he did but I just cant read it that way there are so many thing he did that was unnecessary. Joking and laughing while you bashing someones brains no matter what the reason isn't normal simple as that. I guess will see if there is a soft side to Negan now that hes in jail.

I can forgive most of the things in this arc and ignoring Negans dialogue, It isn't a bad arc although the worst one yet but Negan is a big part of these arcs so id have to say 5/10 for the All Out War arc.


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#25
The Walking Shooter

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My biggest problem with this whole arc and maybe even the previous arcs is Negan, its the only reason why The Saviors got to be around this long, Kirkman stretched those comics out so much by writing such awful dialogue for Negan.
I have no complaint over the bad things Negan does, and I believe he could of been a better character than the governor but Kirkman just got lazy and uses Negan dialogue to fill his comic panels.        
If All Out War focused more on the characters we care about it would have been a great arc. I don’t need deaths or shocking revelations I just want to see more development in the new/old group of survivors.
Maybe if they created an arc that made Negan seem less evil which could of been easily done when we got to see his compound. If they made it seem like he only did those bad thing because he had to. I know many people can argue he did but I just cant read it that way there are so many thing he did that was unnecessary. Joking and laughing while you bashing someones brains no matter what the reason isn't normal simple as that. I guess will see if there is a soft side to Negan now that hes in jail.
I can forgive most of the things in this arc and ignoring Negans dialogue, It isn't a bad arc although the worst one yet but Negan is a big part of these arcs so id have to say 5/10 for the All Out War arc.


I thought Kirkman had nailed it down in the first half of AOW in terms of development and the balance between action and character interaction. It was only the second half that things started to fall apart.

I think Negan still has the potential to outclass the Governor as a character. Maybe we'll get an insight into why he does the things he does in future issues. He could still cause damage.
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