Maybe this is the biggest change yet, the next issue we find Rick with his head shaved, in robes, holding hand and singing kymbaya
#151
24 April 2014 - 01:43 AM
#152
24 April 2014 - 01:47 AM
Man. I just can't shake how bad this was. If he breaks out and starts another rebellion. I'm done. This war was such a waste.
#153
Guest_CraigTNelsonMandela_*
24 April 2014 - 02:22 AM
#154
24 April 2014 - 03:00 AM
And couldn't RK at least put Rick in a wheelchair for an issue or two? There's no wheelchairs in the ZA?
#155
24 April 2014 - 03:09 AM
rick strikes me as the FDR type...no chair in public.I was thinking that maybe the survivors would publicly execute Negan, that way Rick could go from apocalypse to martial law, not the b-line to "a more civilized time". Why waste resources on keeping Negan prisoner. Too much of an internal threat.
And couldn't RK at least put Rick in a wheelchair for an issue or two? There's no wheelchairs in the ZA?
#156
24 April 2014 - 05:29 AM
#157
24 April 2014 - 06:03 AM
AOW was a set-piece and more soap than dope.
that said i think the troll is in the issue. the next issue will have major turns (ha) really the knife not being gunked? do we know that? what if negan turns? i really cant see this brave new world crap persisting nor negan living some how i think hes still dead by end of 127. otherwise maybe it is true. plot has gone from adventure to complications of dialog held in mouldering rooms and candlelit front porches
#158
24 April 2014 - 06:41 AM
Maybe I need to re-read 100-126, but was Negan ever really THAT bad?
1) Bashed Glenn's skull in - Okay, but as brutal as this was it was retaliatory.
2) Ironed some faces - Okay, not good but it was done as a response to his rules being broken.
3) Bullied the Communities - Okay, taking half was overkill.
4) Zombified Holly - Wartime excuse.
Etc.
I just don't see Negan in the same league of evil as The Governor. The Governor was a sadist who
did messed up shit because he enjoyed it. Negan might have enjoyed some of what he did, but
he actually did have some legitimate reasons, he didn't just do stuff to do it.
The Governor was a sadist and much worse than Negan, but that doesn't excuse Negan's actions. I think people see the Governor more evil because he killed Rick's wife and daughter, his best friend and half of the group and destroyed the prison. But Negan gets away with it because he kills Glenn and minor characters, and seems to be doing it for a purpose. But the thing is Glenn had a family, Denise and Eric had spouses, Holly was used to destroy their community etc. Plus he had a harem for crying out loud, and punished his wife's loved ones if they had the sense to go back to their husband/boyfriend.
#159
24 April 2014 - 07:07 AM
what i liked most about TWD was that above all it was an adventure story. not a drawing room set piece with character complications and intertwining subplots. Star Trek was an adventure story - core cast weekly encountering a new adventure in new settings with each one left a little better than when encountered. but the adventure continues at each end. And the best WD stories were like that - even the CDC or Clear in tv show.
AOW was a set-piece and more soap than dope.
that said i think the troll is in the issue. the next issue will have major turns (ha) really the knife not being gunked? do we know that? what if negan turns? i really cant see this brave new world crap persisting nor negan living some how i think hes still dead by end of 127. otherwise maybe it is true. plot has gone from adventure to complications of dialog held in mouldering rooms and candlelit front porches
I don't think it was the infected knife. If so Negan would have showed a much more reaction towards it, and Rick wouldn't have said to him that he was going to rot and die as an old man.
#160
24 April 2014 - 09:11 AM
Now that this arc's come to an end, I've honestly lost faith in Kirkman's ability to write this story well. The art has been beautiful and I feel like the turning points of its narrative have broken some bold new ground for the series, but jesus fuck, the writing has just been shocking. If I was looking at an outline of the narrative of All Out War I'd be so excited to read it, but the way it's actually been written - the dialouge, the scripting of the battles, the way characters have been pushed into situations in unbelievable ways simply to facilitate one of those turning points - seriously undermines the significance of where the story is now headed in my opinion. As a long-time fan who's read the entire series at least ten times, I'm very disapointed.
#161
24 April 2014 - 09:31 AM
Now that this arc's come to an end, I've honestly lost faith in Kirkman's ability to write this story well. The art has been beautiful and I feel like the turning points of its narrative have broken some bold new ground for the series, but jesus fuck, the writing has just been shocking. If I was looking at an outline of the narrative of All Out War I'd be so excited to read it, but the way it's actually been written - the dialouge, the scripting of the battles, the way characters have been pushed into situations in unbelievable ways simply to facilitate one of those turning points - seriously undermines the significance of where the story is now headed in my opinion. As a long-time fan who's read the entire series at least ten times, I'm very disapointed.
I have to agree, I think RK maybe has to much on his plate maybe. Between AMC and the Comic and now another series coming, this seems to have watered down the quality of this book and storyline. I understand if a villian slips away or somehow kills his way out to escape, but with the amount of damage Negan has caused along with all the pain and suffering he has made people endured. they should vote to hang him out on the Hilltop. I understand having to keep a villain, but keeping a villain due to this poor ending! all out war was an all out waste!
#162
24 April 2014 - 09:33 AM
#163
24 April 2014 - 09:37 AM
I get what Rick is doing but the ending of AOW (a so called major arc) just felt like a let down.
Wasn't a bad issue per say.
I agree it wasnt a bad issue, in the larger scheme of things it was a pretty good issue, I just expected some sort of closure for the all out war, and I dont think we got any... We all expected Negan to die, so if anything I suppose RK is not predictable...
#164
24 April 2014 - 10:30 AM
I'm tired of the if we kill him, we aren't better than him. We will be just as terrible BS. Really? This guy has killed dozens for just not having the amount of supplies he wanted....So Rick you're being a moron.
Man. I just can't shake how bad this was. If he breaks out and starts another rebellion. I'm done. This war was such a waste.
I really don't get this. How does it make the war a waste at all? In retrospect surely killing Negan and killing off the Saviours would make this war a huge waste?
I mean, the whole point was to move forward with the A Larger World storyline. If they just got rid of Negan and the others then Negan would have just been ANOTHER villain detour from the main storyline. At least now the consequences of Negan's arc actually matter.
Yes, you can argue that the execution was poor but you can't argue that Kirkman isn't trying out new ideas and trying not to rehash old storylines.
And Rick's not being a moron. He just decided to go with life imprisonment instead of the death penalty. Because he wants to move away from the savagery of Negan and his post-Prison past.
And some people are saying that imprisonment is stupid. The resources are lacking. But what about lesser crimes? Do they simply kill anyone who breaks the rules? Burn their faces with an iron like Negan did? Obviously Rick wants to establish a punishment system beyond murder, maiming or execution.
#165
24 April 2014 - 11:02 AM
I'm tired of the if we kill him, we aren't better than him. We will be just as terrible BS. Really? This guy has killed dozens for just not having the amount of supplies he wanted....So Rick you're being a moron.
Man. I just can't shake how bad this was. If he breaks out and starts another rebellion. I'm done. This war was such a waste.
Exactly, this is not a case of us being better than them. Negan killed a lot of people to make points, he took 1/2 of everyone else's stuff under the guise of protection and killed your people if you didn't give it, he killed people who disagreed with him or he didn't trust, he killed you if you didn't what his 'protection', he ironed your face if you had the audacity to sleep with your wife after he forced her to become his 'wife' (and please don't tell me they had a 'choice' I know a lot of people think that I don't agree).
He is not a petty criminal who made a mistake or even a few mistakes, he is a psychopath who is now and will continue to be a threat. I certainly don’t think the death penalty should apply to most crimes, hardly any in fact, I think prison/jail is a great idea to restart civilization, consequences for your actions. However, not in the case of someone like Negan.
When my daughter was reading it yesterday, she even said it was stupid, “we put people to death now for murder, why would it be less humane in the ZA?” I know not everyone agrees with the death penalty but in the ZA it might be the only way to deal with some people.
#166
24 April 2014 - 11:57 AM
#167
24 April 2014 - 12:44 PM
#168
24 April 2014 - 01:12 PM
#169
24 April 2014 - 01:18 PM
#170
24 April 2014 - 03:29 PM
When my daughter was reading it yesterday, she even said it was stupid, “we put people to death now for murder, why would it be less humane in the ZA?” I know not everyone agrees with the death penalty but in the ZA it might be the only way to deal with some people.
Well some places do. Some places don't. Rick has been slaughtering all his enemies, without mercy, since the Prison attack. Obviously Negan's brutality and the idea of "A Larger World" has made Rick feel that they need to get away from all the killing. I guess he feels that executing Negan is too similar to Negan executing Glenn when Rick murdered some of his men. And he's right about Glenn. He's never been the bloodthirsty type. He always seemed more like an anti-death penalty kind of guy.
#171
24 April 2014 - 03:32 PM
#172
24 April 2014 - 04:48 PM
Well some places do. Some places don't. Rick has been slaughtering all his enemies, without mercy, since the Prison attack. Obviously Negan's brutality and the idea of "A Larger World" has made Rick feel that they need to get away from all the killing. I guess he feels that executing Negan is too similar to Negan executing Glenn when Rick murdered some of his men. And he's right about Glenn. He's never been the bloodthirsty type. He always seemed more like an anti-death penalty kind of guy.
Yeah Glenn was one of the survivors that objected to the execution of Ben.
I'm conflicted with Rick's decision though. On the one hand they need to get away from the killings. On the other hand you've basically got a homicidal dictator on your hands. What are you meant to do?
In fact, I'm just going to list this issue as one of my favourites. It has so many dilemmas in it, and I keep going back and fourth from where I stand on it. Whatever happens next (NO TIME JUMP) I hope more of these issues are raised. But hopefully better executed, as to be honest Kirkman shouldn't have injured Rick the way he did if this was Rick's next move. It would have fit in with Rick's character more, as he isn't the type to choose a Villain's wounds over his own.
#173
24 April 2014 - 04:57 PM
I really don't get this. How does it make the war a waste at all? In retrospect surely killing Negan and killing off the Saviours would make this war a huge waste?
I mean, the whole point was to move forward with the A Larger World storyline. If they just got rid of Negan and the others then Negan would have just been ANOTHER villain detour from the main storyline. At least now the consequences of Negan's arc actually matter.
Yes, you can argue that the execution was poor but you can't argue that Kirkman isn't trying out new ideas and trying not to rehash old storylines.
And Rick's not being a moron. He just decided to go with life imprisonment instead of the death penalty. Because he wants to move away from the savagery of Negan and his post-Prison past.
And some people are saying that imprisonment is stupid. The resources are lacking. But what about lesser crimes? Do they simply kill anyone who breaks the rules? Burn their faces with an iron like Negan did? Obviously Rick wants to establish a punishment system beyond murder, maiming or execution.
I think kirkman only let him live just so maybe down the road Negan will either break out, or finds some way to try and redeem himself. So this way he has something to use as a story later on.
I see very few rules at this point in time, which should be if you kill, rape or do something awful along those lines....you get put to death. It makes sense. You have a threat outside you cannot worry about a threat inside, mostly because they are more dangerous.
They kill Negan get everyone in a group and explain how things go after the Negan era. Explain the new rules and the punishment they receive if certain rules are broken. You don't start by letting one of the most dangerous men you fought locked up with you. When of course something will or could happen.
#174
24 April 2014 - 05:02 PM
#175
24 April 2014 - 05:19 PM
I was disappointed. So let down.
I kept holding out hope, thinking that it was going to get better. Thinking that the last issue of the arc was going to be epic, that something was going to fall, be it most of the Alliance or most of the Saviors. Thinking that we were going to see Negan die.
It wouldn't be so bad if Kirkman hadn't advertised it as being a huge big deal, and if we hadn't had this twelve issue run that was supposedly going to be amazing. As just another run in the series, in a few trade paper backs, this is no biggie. In relation to the hype that was made and the promises that were made, I feel like this is a huge load of BS and that Kirkman no longer cares about pleasing his fans since most will just keep on buying his stuff anyway. His incentive to make a compelling story has now died out and he is mostly free to just pump out easy, uninteresting story lines with little to no affect on his sales.
Disappointing.
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