Finally… Strong Female Friendships

- - - - - S4 Article

#1
d2daybreak

d2daybreak

    Promo Queen

  • Members
  • 2,904
  • LocationHanging out with Morgan

I found an article on things that episode 4.13 Alone did right (and wrong). Most of them have been discussed here in one form or another, but one--strong female friendships--hasn't been discussed. So, I am posting an excerpt from the article to spark a discussion on the subject:

 

"Over the first three and a half seasons of The Walking Dead, we’ve gotten some awfully compelling platonic relationships between the male characters. Rick and Shane loved each other so much that they nearly destroyed themselves rather than give up on one another. Rick became the brother that Daryl had never had in Merle, and Daryl became the unfailingly loyal and trustworthy partner that Rick needed after Shane. Hershel became a pillar of morality for Rick and embraced Glenn as a son. Indeed, the men of The Walking Dead have developed some wonderful relationships with one another.

 

The women? Not so much. The farm was riddled with womanly squabbling, Maggie and Beth are forgettable as sisters, and most female characters only seem to receive attention via their relationships with the men. Andrea and Michonne were a step in the right direction in Season 3, but that…didn’t exactly end well. When surly loner Daryl has a more successful social life than any of the ladies who actually possess people skills, something is seriously wrong.

 

Fortunately, the camaraderie of Maggie and Sasha in Alone is a promising change. While Bob is present as he tries to romance Sasha and follow Maggie, the emphasis of the struggle remains on the women, and their dual kickass action sequence coupled with the maturity of their dialogue felt amazingly respectful. They discuss their plan as equals and hash out their emotional hang-ups like adults."

 

I will even go further than the article. Until the end of S3, TWD struggled when it came to creating positive, dare I say, likable female characters. Lori was a terrible Mom; Carol was a weak, abused widow; Andrea was an impulsive bitch; Beth was a sheltered, whiny teen; Michonne was a stoic enigma; and Sasha was just unknown having just been introduced. Aside from Maggie, the only strong, likable female characters--Amy and Jacqui--were killed off in the first season. And even Maggie being a positive female character even if a likable one, prior to the end of S3, can be debated because she practically fell into bed with Glenn upon meeting him.

 

However, prior to the end of S3 and, dare I say, the beginning of the reign of Gimple, we couldn't have strong female friendships because we didn't have positive, likable and strong, female characters. The article mentions strong male friendships between Rick, Shane, Daryl, Hershel, and Glenn. Each of these male characters, even Shane before killing Otis, were not only strong, but positive and likable.

 

So, I am happy to recognize and agree that Alone gave us strong female friendships, but I couldn't sleep that S4 has solidified the steps taken at the end of S3 in giving us strong, positive, and likable female character in general from which to build these strong female friendships. I look forward to seeing more of it and more of them.


  • 12

tumblr_mdsrpoSv1L1rczlwwo2_250.gif "I never stopped having my shit together." ~Michonne

Check out my blog


#2
Skeet

Skeet

    Infected

  • Members
  • 90
  • LocationNorth Augusta, SC

 The farm was riddled with womanly squabbling, Maggie and Beth are forgettable as sisters, and most female characters only seem to receive attention via their relationships with the men.

 

 

So it was just like real life.   :D 


  • 1

#3
DeadCave

DeadCave

    Resident Scribe

  • *Members*
  • 2,911
  • LocationUtah

While it does seem that the writers are coming around and forming strong bonds between the surviving women of Rick's group, I'd have to disagree with some of the observations, particularly about certain characters. 
With Amy, I wouldn't necessarily call her a "strong" character as she unrealistically hoped that "Florida wasn't hit so bad" and that her parents were okay. She didn't fight particularly hard (or even at all) when the walker (magically) appeared behind the RV door and bit her arm. 
Jackie was strong but knew herself well enough to know she's had enough and thus opted to stay with Jenner. 
Maggie didn't "just fall into bed" with Glenn. She's an opportunist, likely she was horny and just wanted to get laid, Glenn was a viable male and he had condoms ... her willingness which is normal, natural as anyone else being lonely and isolated on the farm as she was... isolated from prospective male companions, and like Glenn, she was very aware that she could die the next day.
It was later that she realized that she cared for Glenn and he cared for her... this of course blossomed into the romance that we are seeing. Maggie would've likely been a survivor had the farm been overrun without Rick's group being there. She's shown resilience throughout. She and Beth have a healthy sister relationship. They've shown that several times. Beth getting Maggie to hold/nurse Judith. Beth's attempted suicide pact in S2 said that she was close enough to her sister to want to end it with her. Maggie freaking out not seeing Beth on the bus during the Governor's attack says she cared deeply about Beth. 
True, Maggie seems to have forgotten Beth while looking for Glenn, but if I recall someone (Bob?) told her they saw Beth with Daryl, so she likely trusts Daryl to keep her sister alive until they're reunited. Her main priority (as a loving wife) is to find her husband. 

Michonne is just now starting to come out of her shell and likely will form a female bond with one or more women on the show. 

The author of the article (to me) sounds like they have high expectations of the women of the show. 
The lack of "Beaches" type sisterhood-ism in the show is more from the writing than anything else. Also recall the laundry scene that Carol's husband interrupted in S1, the women group were in process of forming bonds. 


  • 5

69% of the people find something dirty in everything they read.  http://http://www.gofundme.com/c66cv4


#4
Blasko_Z

Blasko_Z

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,243

Also recall the laundry scene that Carol's husband interrupted in S1, the women group were in process of forming bonds. 

 

"This ain't no comedy club."


  • 1

#5
Mar22

Mar22

    Infected

  • Members
  • 91

Carol's husband was something else - I think it was the only time I was rooting for the zombie when he got bit.

Michone was a great character since the moment they introduced her - the only really strong respectable female character.

I don't know why people call Andrea a bitch - I don't recall her doing anything seriously wrong (other than shooting Daryl in S2).

The scene where Lori and Andrea were fighting over housework (on the farm, in S2) was the dumbest and most offensive thing I've seen in a long time in any show - they should have definitely edited that out!


  • 0

#6
nazacuckoo

nazacuckoo

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 2,644
  • LocationTo your left

 The farm was riddled with womanly squabbling, Maggie and Beth are forgettable as sisters, and most female characters only seem to receive attention via their relationships with the men.

 

 

So it was just like real life.   :D 

 

 

You're in for it now. Even the smiley emoticon at the end probably won't be enough to save you.


  • 4

"There's no "I" in team" 

"Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!"


#7
Lioness

Lioness

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,740

Great subject OP. The article is dead on IMO. There has been a paucity of strongly bonded women characters on this show. Michonne and Andrea's relationship was only touched upon and it got tossed to the curb as soon as TG showed up. It was a real missed opportunity to show those two women working together to survive. And yes, Andrea was called everything from a bitch to a bimbo for having a sex drive. Oh no, a sex drive!! In a woman! Shocking, I say! Maggie only barely escaped the same criticism that Andrea received because she was monogamous and ultimately married Glenn.

 

Lori was a terrible mother and wife. That's fine. They do exist. I had no problem with her role in the story. I loved when Andrea told her to kiss off when Lori wanted her to do the laundry.

 

I would love to see Maggie and Sasha have the friendship that we in the audience missed out on between Michonne and Andrea.  


  • 6
Putting out fire with gasoline.

#8
Serenity@sea

Serenity@sea

    Do ya want a cookie?

  • Administrators
  • 9,857

I found an article on things that episode 4.13 Alone did right (and wrong). Most of them have been discussed here in one form or another, but one--strong female friendships--hasn't been discussed. So, I am posting an excerpt from the article to spark a discussion on the subject:

 

"Over the first three and a half seasons of The Walking Dead, we’ve gotten some awfully compelling platonic relationships between the male characters. Rick and Shane loved each other so much that they nearly destroyed themselves rather than give up on one another. Rick became the brother that Daryl had never had in Merle, and Daryl became the unfailingly loyal and trustworthy partner that Rick needed after Shane. Hershel became a pillar of morality for Rick and embraced Glenn as a son. Indeed, the men of The Walking Dead have developed some wonderful relationships with one another.

 

The women? Not so much. The farm was riddled with womanly squabbling, Maggie and Beth are forgettable as sisters, and most female characters only seem to receive attention via their relationships with the men. Andrea and Michonne were a step in the right direction in Season 3, but that…didn’t exactly end well. When surly loner Daryl has a more successful social life than any of the ladies who actually possess people skills, something is seriously wrong.

 

Fortunately, the camaraderie of Maggie and Sasha in Alone is a promising change. While Bob is present as he tries to romance Sasha and follow Maggie, the emphasis of the struggle remains on the women, and their dual kickass action sequence coupled with the maturity of their dialogue felt amazingly respectful. They discuss their plan as equals and hash out their emotional hang-ups like adults."

 

I will even go further than the article. Until the end of S3, TWD struggled when it came to creating positive, dare I say, likable female characters. Lori was a terrible Mom; Carol was a weak, abused widow; Andrea was an impulsive bitch; Beth was a sheltered, whiny teen; Michonne was a stoic enigma; and Sasha was just unknown having just been introduced. Aside from Maggie, the only strong, likable female characters--Amy and Jacqui--were killed off in the first season. And even Maggie being a positive female character even if a likable one, prior to the end of S3, can be debated because she practically fell into bed with Glenn upon meeting him.

 

However, prior to the end of S3 and, dare I say, the beginning of the reign of Gimple, we couldn't have strong female friendships because we didn't have positive, likable and strong, female characters. The article mentions strong male friendships between Rick, Shane, Daryl, Hershel, and Glenn. Each of these male characters, even Shane before killing Otis, were not only strong, but positive and likable.

 

So, I am happy to recognize and agree that Alone gave us strong female friendships, but I couldn't sleep that S4 has solidified the steps taken at the end of S3 in giving us strong, positive, and likable female character in general from which to build these strong female friendships. I look forward to seeing more of it and more of them.

 

I do agree that we haven't seen strong female bonds, but I agree with Dead Cave's assessment of Maggie.

My biggest problem with Andrea and Michonne's relationship was that the pre-interviews (before S3 started) described their relationship as a very strong bond, we barely got to see that before they were at odds. I know that Michonne was very closed off, but for the first half of S3, she seemed more like a plot device than an actual character. Mainly because she was used to further Andrea's storyline to stay in Woodbury.

 

Carol's husband was something else - I think it was the only time I was rooting for the zombie when he got bit.

Michone was a great character since the moment they introduced her - the only really strong respectable female character.

I don't know why people call Andrea a bitch - I don't recall her doing anything seriously wrong (other than shooting Daryl in S2).

The scene where Lori and Andrea were fighting over housework (on the farm, in S2) was the dumbest and most offensive thing I've seen in a long time in any show - they should have definitely edited that out!

I did not consider Andrea a bitch. My problem with the character was that just as she started to come into her own, she went from gullible to downright stupidity when it came to being deceived by an alpha male.

 

Glen Mazzara has stated in interviews that the scene between Lori and Andrea was supposed to show that Lori was living in denial and still clinging to the past, but it did not work whatsoever. If anything, it just caused the viewers to dislike Lori more.


  • 3

#9
Jayne23

Jayne23

    Banned for sock puppeting

  • Banned
  • 545
  • LocationOhio
I got the impression that in the prison the women Sasha/ carol/ maggie and even karen
had a mutual respect for each other but didn't seem real gal pals......I think carol was
still damaged from being abused woman with little confidence until she decided to kill karen and
david. Yikes!!!
Michoone to me seems like the type of woman that will not just want to sit around and braid hair
and talk about guys She seems to be that type of woman who relates to men easier in many ways.
From that short thing about her past she seemed to be running both of those men and not waiting for them
to decide.
Lori and Beth are to me waste of characters and not well written or acted....Loved with Daryl called her OLive Oyl and when Andrea told her off.
  • 2

#10
Skeet

Skeet

    Infected

  • Members
  • 90
  • LocationNorth Augusta, SC

You're in for it now. Even the smiley emoticon at the end probably won't be enough to save you.

Oh well, some people can't take a joke I guess.


  • 0

#11
NewJeffCT

NewJeffCT

    Lurker

  • Members
  • 280
  • LocationSouthern New England, USA

I agree with this overall, even though I'm a guy.  I thought in season 2 especially, it seemed like the women were just happy being homemakers and staying behind on the farm, while the guys were out actually doing things.  Shouldn't the women have been learning to protect themselves and the basics of zombie killing?  Maybe making the home a bit more secure? Why couldn't each of them go on supply runs, too?  Well, maybe Lori staying because she was pregnant...but, Carol and Beth could have gone out, too.

 

And, I think the showrunners brought Michonne in because of how popular she was in the comics - but, then weren't sure what to do with her other than having her scowl, glower, and chop some heads off.  In the comics,

Spoiler


  • 0

#12
theglassintheguvseye

theglassintheguvseye

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 3,710
  • LocationEye Socket

As a female who gets along better with most men than most women, the lack of female bonds seems "normal" to me.  I have a lot of girlfriends. Most old, some new and some from this very forum!  I am very pro woman and very easy to get along with in general but I can't imagine forming strong bonds with a bunch of new gals in the midst of a ZA too quickly.  Women are different than men, let's face it.  That's not to say one is better than the other but we naturally have different skill sets both emotionally and physically.  Men and women bond with the same sex differently.

 

Women are naturally a bit more cautious in trusting their feelings with people or anything else for that matter.  We're made to protect our offspring and attract mates who will do the same.  Yes, that is a generalization but I think it's appropriate for this discussion.  Men are more apt to bond simply through carmaraderie in general.  "We need to clear this building.  This man is an asset.  We're pals now. " Women are trying to protect Sofia or Carl or whomever and act as support to their men.  I get that.  There's no shame in it and it's actually something to be proud of. Civilization would have ceased long ago if it weren't for these natural proclivities.

 

Andrea's character was not like that.  Dale's was not a stereotypical male's either.  They definitely bonded. Glenn and Maggie, I see much the same way.  Lori "needed" a man be it Rick or Shane.  Andrea did not. Once she settled on a man, everyone was disappointed in her choice for good reason.    Maggie, like DC said didn't want but to get laid safely and ended up in love.  That's a natural progression to me.  Michonne was definitely in charge from the pre ZA get go.  So, I have less issues with the lack of female bonding than I do with the supernatural nature of the males' auto bonding.  It seems a bit overblown but I get it.  It propels the story.

 

That said, I would like to see things develop more with the gals on the show.  I agree that Sasha and Maggie are equals and peers and could have a good relationship.  Carol has developed enough that she's up there too. Lori, Beth and Amy were or are simply a ticking clock to me, awaiting death.  Jacqui, I viewed as very strong in choosing death over the alternative.  

 

Meh, I'll probably get torn to shreds here  but I am speaking in generalities.  I'm not saying that women can't be strong and cohesive and a force to be reckoned with.  I just find us to be the more cautious of the 2 sexes and therefore more hesitant in general to trust one another. And men are naturally more strong physically so they afford protection in that way.  Women are playing roles that women play in real life. Moms are super heroes to me.  I never did that b/c I didn't think I'd be any good at it.  I'm way too selfish.  Lori, I had no respect for but I always respected Carol somehow, despite her tolerance of domestic abuse.  It takes a certain strength to get through that and staying with the abusive person is not always a weakness but rather a resignation and a very deeply ingrained set of social values or whatever. I would have liked to see she and Andrea form a stronger bond, had Andrea survived.

 

Lori was just an entitled, whiny, fickle little person in my eyes.  So utterly selfish.  How could anyone like her???  Andrea, until S3 was strong, as are Michonne, Maggie, Sasha and Carol.  You don't have to be a warrior in order to be strong and I honestly don't want a hen party commencing on TWD.  I'd rather see the women on the show mirror real life roles and feel that they do, for the most part.  We're seeing men fight alongside women at this point and will likely see the women bonding due to mutual respect/shared roles or views in the future.  It takes all kinds to survive life now, much less in a disaster zone.  

 

What I do NOT like seeing is women getting everyone into dangerous situations for dumb reasons.  That is insulting.  Just b/c you're doing laundry or cooking does not mean you shouldn't watch after your child and leave EVERYTHING security related up to the menfolk. That is both unrealistic and dangerous for everyone. So, I have a few issues with certain characters of the female and male persuasions but overall, I think the show is doing a pretty good job of illustrating roles for the post apocalyptic world in Georgia. And it also does a good job of showing what vulnerabilities certain characters have and how those affect the folks around them.  It's fairly realistic when compared to my own experiences.


  • 3

#13
jayde

jayde

    Lurker

  • Members
  • 347
  • LocationCanada

Carol's husband was something else - I think it was the only time I was rooting for the zombie when he got bit.

Michone was a great character since the moment they introduced her - the only really strong respectable female character.

I don't know why people call Andrea a bitch - I don't recall her doing anything seriously wrong (other than shooting Daryl in S2).

The scene where Lori and Andrea were fighting over housework (on the farm, in S2) was the dumbest and most offensive thing I've seen in a long time in any show - they should have definitely edited that out!

 

I actually kind of liked that fight between Lori and Andrea, this coming from a female that will kick anyone's butt if they say I need to do something just because it's 'women's work' Lol.

 

As headstrong as they both were, Lori wasn't entirely wrong in saying Andrea didn't help the ladies enough (we really didn't see her do much of that stuff which doesn't really matter IMO) but Andrea wasn't wrong in saying she did do her share by helping to protect the group. The women that had the attitude that they needed to be protected relegated themselves to doing the household work, things that are entirely meaningless in the ZA. What good is a freshly laundered shirt if a walker is just going to turn you inside out because you spent all your time keeping a clean house when you should have been learning to protect your loved ones?

 

Basically, I like that it was acknowledged even just a bit that you don't have to be washing shirts to be beneficial to the group. If anything, learning how to fire a gun and handle a weapon should have been the bigger priority.
 

I liked the friendship between Michonne and Andrea. I wish that Andrea had put Michonne first above the Governor, like she should have. Perhaps things could have ended up differently for her. I hope we get to see a friendship like this blossom between Sasha and Maggie.

 

I think Carol and Lori had a good bond going on at the beginning of season 3. When Rick checked out, Carol (and Hershel) stepped in and you could tell the two of them had become good friends. But I agree with the article that there haven't been any really strong female relationships in comparison to Rick/Shane or Rick/Daryl.


  • 1

#14
nazacuckoo

nazacuckoo

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 2,644
  • LocationTo your left

Oh well, some people can't take a joke I guess.

 

My guess is that it's hard to detect when someone is joking online, even if the sentence ends with a smiley emoticon...

Seems I was right, though, smiley emoticon wasn't enough to save you. I'm sure it tried it's best :)


  • 1

"There's no "I" in team" 

"Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!"


#15
thelastpaul

thelastpaul

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,187
  • LocationCalifornia

Oh well, some people can't take a joke I guess.

 

If it's any consolation, I up-voted you. Though you still have -6 I see. Lol


  • 0

Bit > Lurker > Roamer > Put down by Scott Gimple. Goodbye R&L


#16
theglassintheguvseye

theglassintheguvseye

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 3,710
  • LocationEye Socket

I actually kind of liked that fight between Lori and Andrea, this coming from a female that will kick anyone's butt if they say I need to do something just because it's 'women's work' Lol.

 

As headstrong as they both were, Lori wasn't entirely wrong in saying Andrea didn't help the ladies enough (we really didn't see her do much of that stuff which doesn't really matter IMO) but Andrea wasn't wrong in saying she did do her share by helping to protect the group. The women that had the attitude that they needed to be protected relegated themselves to doing the household work, things that are entirely meaningless in the ZA. What good is a freshly laundered shirt if a walker is just going to turn you inside out because you spent all your time keeping a clean house when you should have been learning to protect your loved ones?

 

Basically, I like that it was acknowledged even just a bit that you don't have to be washing shirts to be beneficial to the group. If anything, learning how to fire a gun and handle a weapon should have been the bigger priority.
 

I liked the friendship between Michonne and Andrea. I wish that Andrea had put Michonne first above the Governor, like she should have. Perhaps things could have ended up differently for her. I hope we get to see a friendship like this blossom between Sasha and Maggie.

 

I think Carol and Lori had a good bond going on at the beginning of season 3. When Rick checked out, Carol (and Hershel) stepped in and you could tell the two of them had become good friends. But I agree with the article that there haven't been any really strong female relationships in comparison to Rick/Shane or Rick/Daryl.

I both agree and disagree with you.  S1 and S2 had people getting used to a new reality.  Carol and Lori had small children and were accustomed to being housewives.  The farm was somewhat of a "normal" environment so they kept playing their pre ZA roles.  Sanitation and nutrition are both important for survival and morale.  That role is a valid one in a secure environment.  It builds strength for the folks doing the protecting and keeps folks healthy.  It is important until it's snatched away by a horde.

 

Once things became less secure, the existing women did their parts and grew into their roles more.  Lori was hugely pregnant so she got a pass.  Andrea learned more about survival from Michonne and Carol shed her abused wife and mother shell and got pretty damn pragmatic about things.  Maggie, as has been said was always strong.  Beth,  well, maybe it is the actress but she simply hasn't grown in my eyes.

 

I also notice that that type of woman (Lori/Carol) seems growth retardant when there's a man around who is overbearing.  Lori had Shane. Carol had Ed.  Andrea didn't need no stinkin' man but once she fell for one, she became a blithering idiot to some degree.  She was still smart but made stupid choices/mistakes.  Maggie, once again started out strong and independent.  She was having premarital sex pre ZA, after all and that is a stark contrast from how she was raised by Hershel. 

 

Relationships, yes, are lacking but what would they consist of outside of a bunch of zombie killing or what we see already?  All the gals were working the fence.That was vital.  Just because they don't normally go on supply runs, doesn't mean they're helpless.  When you have a home base, someone's gotta be there to keep it going.  Has Tyreese grown ovaries since he doesn't like the fence, runs and is now in charge of a bunch of little girls?  I think not.

 

Meh, that's just the way I look at it.  There are only about 40 mins/wk for anything to happen and I'm glad they're making those minutes enjoyable for me this season.  

 

Skeet, I also upvoted ya.  I found what you said funny.


  • 2

#17
limaro

limaro

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,007
  • LocationOhio, US

I'd enjoy hanging out/struggling for survival  with any of the main cast of women on the show now. 

 

That was certainly NOT the case two seasons ago. On that farm or in that quarry camp I'd have been striking out on my own to get away from some of the women, or just staying away from them and hanging out with the guys.

 

I had not really given that much thought until reading through this thread.  I feel better about the show now, knowing the women are representing as capable and likable now too.


  • 0

“That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.”
― Stephen King, The Stand


#18
laughingdead

laughingdead

    S-mart Employee

  • Members
  • 189

Oh well, some people can't take a joke I guess.


Jokes are only funny because they have levels of truth.
  • 1

#19
nazacuckoo

nazacuckoo

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 2,644
  • LocationTo your left

If it's any consolation, I up-voted you. Though you still have -6 I see. Lol

 

I upvoted him as well, mainly because I knew he was joking and I felt sorry for the fact that he was probably doomed to be downvoted from the beginning...

Maybe if more smiley emoticons were used...


  • 0

"There's no "I" in team" 

"Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!"


#20
GirlsDeadMonster

GirlsDeadMonster

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,508
  • LocationNorfolk, VA

I agree with the article. All my hopes lie with Michonne. Case in point: I had never read the comics and in the first season of the TV show I imagined a strong femal warrior type character who carried a sword. Oddly enough, I wrote of her in my fan fiction "Immune" (blatant self advertisement). Because I felt that was what the show was missing, a strong female lead who can not only move the story along but hold the lead on her own. I imagined a mysterious woman who knows how to survive in this world but is plague with her past and what she had to do to stay alive. Right now, the women characters are not holding my attention other than Michonne and maybe Sasha now. Girls_Dead_Monster.jpeg


  • 0
I don't have to outrun walkers, I just have to outrun you!
Highschool Of The Dead full 240316

#21
PlaneJane21

PlaneJane21

    S-mart Employee

  • Members
  • 177
  • LocationPanama

I have to agree that this show has a bad track record for writing female characters.

 

In seasons one and two, Lori was the leading lady, and the writers made it extremely hard to like her. Then in season three, Andrea became the leading lady and was written so poorly that she became unrecognizable when compared to the awesomeness that was Andrea in the season two finale. It's like they turned Andrea into Lori 2.0, because they didn't know how to write any other kind of female character who had more than a few lines.

 

When season four rolled around, I couldn't help but wonder, who's the new leading lady? Which female character are they planning to butcher this year? After a few episodes of Carol's Psycho School for Girls, I thought, "Okay, this must be our new leading lady." But now I'm not so sure...

 

Now it seems like the writers realized there was a problem and have made an effort to fix it. The women are being written more sympathetically and realistically. Their personalities are diverse. Some of them have forged close bonds, and I haven't seen any petty, drama queen bickering going on between them.

 

It would be nice if Maggie remembered that she had a sister, though at least she's no longer being written like she's bipolar. In season two she was all over the map. I like seeing Maggie bond with Sasha and be the one Sasha admitted her fears to. I view those two as sisters in spirit in a way. They have a lot in common. They're both strong, stubborn and capable, but also very human, not unrealistic superwomen.

 

Speaking of such, I'm glad they've toned Michonne down and made her act more like a person than a cartoon character. It's also nice to see that she can actually talk. Her refusal to speak, even when she had important info, made little sense and drove me a bit bonkers during season three. 

 

I don't have any issues with the way Beth is being written either. I think she's meant to be naive and too innocent for her own good. She's been wrong about just about everything, from what she wrote in her diary to what she believed just before disappearing. Her strength, or maybe her weakness, is her Hershel-like faith in humanity, which I suspect is about to be shattered. To her credit, she didn't back down from Daryl when he was doing his best to alienate and intimidate her. She confronted him and made him confront himself.

 

I'm liking what I've seen of Tara so far. I thought it took a lot of guts for her to refuse to attack the prison even after The Governor's second-in-command noticed and ordered her to pick up her gun. She reminds me a bit of season one Rick. She's a latecomer who's still learning how the post-apocalyptic world works, and she hasn't been hardened by it yet. The latter is something she has in common with Beth, except Tara's not dangerously naive.

 

I suppose if the writers want to put Carol on the crazy train, that's fine. That's still better than giving us a Lori 3.0. Carol's change does seem pretty sudden though. Maybe all the character development that brought her to this point ended up on the cutting room floor? To me it's like they just flipped a switch, and out of nowhere we ended up with Carol, Cold-Blooded Mentor of Budding Serial Killers.

 

Right now, with the group split up and most of the women separated from each other, we're not seeing a whole lot of female bonding. However, Maggie and Sasha hashing it out like adults instead of cat fighting like a couple of divas was a nice a change of pace. Otherwise, the women really haven't interacted with each other much this season. Maybe that's why the writers' problem seems to be fixed. Most of the women's scenes have been with men.


  • 0

#22
nazacuckoo

nazacuckoo

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 2,644
  • LocationTo your left

Girls_Dead_Monster.jpeg

 

Anime chicks! My favourite! With female anime midriff included!

GirlsDeadMonster, thank you for making my day.


  • 0

"There's no "I" in team" 

"Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!"


#23
michaelmyers

michaelmyers

    S-mart Employee

  • Members
  • 131
  • LocationLouisville Ky

Reading the topic regarding the brotherhood of these men (the closeness of Daryl & Rick respectively) had me thinking about the female characters on the Walking Dead. I keep pondering how I don't feel like any of the women have formed a real bond the way the men have over the seasons.  I personally find that odd and interesting and in a way direct opposite of the way it may be for many in a PRE-apocalypse life.  I think about how important girl friend relationships are for many women, having at least 1 close BFF so to speak. I wonder is this because the roles in the apocalypse are so different which I noticed in the first season (i.e. Andrea fighting to defend the camp, Carol washing clothes, Lori cooking etc) so these women never bonded?  But even over the seasons I just never have seen a close relationship form with any of the women.  Anyone ever noticed the same?


  • 0

#24
Dixon Chick

Dixon Chick

    Infected

  • Members
  • 15

In Season 2 when the women were washing clothes as Shane was teaching Carl how to catch frogs, there was bonding over what they missed from pre-apocalypse life (washing machines, coffee makers, vibrators). 

 

Lori mentioned how much she missed Jacki after her death. Michonne & Andrea were very close and Michonne was the only one to stay in the room with Andrea as she took her fate into her own hands. Maggie and Beth talking between closed doors of quarantine discussing their fears as Beth reminds Maggie they all have jobs to do. Maggie and Sasha bonding over killing walkers with street signs and pointy sticks. Carol bonding with the little girls. 

 

Perhaps female bonding looks different than male bonding but I believe it is present.


  • 1

#25
Lioness

Lioness

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,740

I think there is a recent thread on this topic somewhere already. But in case it is gone, I'll answer here. Yes, there is some bonding. But there is no question that the emphasis has been on the male to male, or male to female bonding, and not so much on the female to female bonding. Nobody even comes close to considering someone a sister (even the two sisters it seems). Michonne and Andrea, sort of, but we really didn't get to experience it like we did Rick and Shane, or Rick and Daryl, or Hershel and Glenn or even Daryl and Merle. I'd like to see more of that. I can see Sasha and Maggie really becoming close friends.

 

As a tangentially related point, I found Tara's description of Lily being swarmed incredibly detached. Particularly when she went on to say it didn't come close to the horror of how Hershel was killed. What? Your sister was eaten alive as you looked on and that didn't move you like seeing someone you didn't even know beheaded? But I digress. 


  • 0
Putting out fire with gasoline.





Welcome to RoamersAndLurkers.com, the largest walking dead forum and discussion board online. If you are a fan of AMC's The Walking Dead or Robert Kirkman's The Walking Dead Comic Book, we invite you to peruse and enjoy our discussion board, and don't be afraid of joining in!