[kombat]

I agree somewhat with a reviewer I read that said TWD made a mistake by playing it safe with Judith. It was a bait and switch essentially. They were on the verge of giving us maybe the signature moment of the entire series, but instead they cutaway and we get a lame Carol re-introduction instead. He says it shows that the writers have a lack of commitment to the harsh reality of the world they've created.

 

I said I agree somewhat. Overall, I wish Judith wasn't around. But having Lizzie kill her, that would be awfully bold. But I do agree with the idea that TWD shows a lack of commitment to the harshness of this world. It is dreary most of the time, but is that enough? Too often they stop short I think.

[DeadInDetroit]

Why would Rick have to "deal" with banning Carol if she didn't do it? Forgetting that it wasn't his decision to make, it's not like he had suspicions and just banished her. She admitted to doing it. Whether she really did it or is covering for Lizzie, doesn't matter. Rick asked her point blank if she did it and she said yes.

Um yea it would matter. So you think that wouldnt affect Rick, knowing he banished someone he loved (and looked at like family)? Of course it would. He left Carol out there alone to survive/fend for herself in a ZOMBIE APOCOLYPSE over something she didnt even do... of course that would affect him, how would it not!? Im not saying its Ricks fault, of course its not, Carol told him she did it, he didnt know any better. Id imagine Rick would be thinking "damn i banished her, left her by herself, left her to fend for herself with no safe shelter over somethin she didnt even do. What if she wouldve died out there by herself?"

I didnt mean "deal" with it as in he'll have consequences for banishing her or like ppl would be mad at him for banishing her.. i meant it like emotionally he'll be like "damn,thats messed up"... like how hes had to deal with losing sophia, killing shane, not saving Hershel, etc (obviously not AS much as those things cuz banishing Carol wasnt as big of an issue as the other things hes dealt with)

[QueenQueso]

Glen did refer to Maggie as his wife so they did get married offscreen.  I hope they filmed the wedding anyways to use for a flashback later on.

 

Is it totally certain that Lizzie was trying to kill Judith?  

 

I just assumed that they didn't actually have a wedding so much as they just decided that they wanted to be husband and wife.

 

As for Lizzie, I did think that this might be the end of Judith, but since she was still heard crying, she was obviously still breathing through Lizzie's hand. Lizzie is clearly disturbed, and she totally zoned out there for a minute and I think she was definitely *thinking* of killing her but I'm not sure she was actually trying to at that time.

[CreepMeOut]

Earlier I mentioned that Beth may be getting some character development but after re-watching the episode and actually paying attention to her dialogue I think they're setting her up to die. She mentions that she doesn't see herself living if they don't have the prison anymore. She doesn't seem cut out for this world and not emotionally strong enough. I can see her committing suicide.

[JesusMonroe]

Earlier I mentioned that Beth may be getting some character development but after re-watching the episode and actually paying attention to her dialogue I think they're setting her up to die. She mentions that she doesn't see herself living if they don't have the prison anymore. She doesn't seem cut out for this world and not emotionally strong enough. I can see her committing suicide.

Development leading to death? But that's never ever happened on this show

[JesusMonroe]

What I didn't like about this episode is that I think when the writers were fracturing groups in "Too Far Gone", they decided that Rick and Carl had to be one group, Tyreese and Carol had to meet up for drama, Maggie couldn't be with Glenn, and then everybody else was just picked out of a hat

 

Because of that, I was just bored for most of the episode. A lot of the characters have little dynamics when interacting with each other and absolutely ZERO chemistry. It was just boring to watch them even interact

[QueenQueso]

What I didn't like about this episode is that I think when the writers were fracturing groups in "Too Far Gone", they decided that Rick and Carl had to be one group, Tyreese and Carol had to meet up for drama, Maggie couldn't be with Glenn, and then everybody else was just picked out of a hat

 

Because of that, I was just bored for most of the episode. A lot of the characters have little dynamics when interacting with each other and absolutely ZERO chemistry. It was just boring to watch them even interact

I liked how random the groups were. They were all fleeing for their lives, it would be too convenient if everyone ended up in their perfect little family groups. Carl and Rick had a nice moment together, but it might have worked even better if they had been separated as well. Carl could really see how much he still needed his father if he wasn't around at all.

[thelastpaul]

Development leading to death? But that's never ever happened on this show

 

Lol I love how you got downvoted twice for a way past true statement. Look out Harry Potter, there are trolls on this forum!

[thelastpaul]

What I didn't like about this episode is that I think when the writers were fracturing groups in "Too Far Gone", they decided that Rick and Carl had to be one group, Tyreese and Carol had to meet up for drama, Maggie couldn't be with Glenn, and then everybody else was just picked out of a hat

 

Because of that, I was just bored for most of the episode. A lot of the characters have little dynamics when interacting with each other and absolutely ZERO chemistry. It was just boring to watch them even interact

 

I actually like the fractured group thing. It gives the characters some more time to shine and do their own thing, which I think is important.

 

I think the way they scattered the group was actually pretty believable as well. We saw what happened during the fight and it all sort of flowed and made sense.

 

As far as chemisty is concerned.. what is "Chemistry" exactly? You're in a apocalyptic life threatening situation, you feel like shit, you're foreseeable only chance at happiness was blown up and overrun with walkers.. I don't think anyone is going to be in a good mood or have much chemistry.

 

Glenn and Tara worked well together.. Rick and Carl were good, Tyreese and the kids played out about as good as I think it could have.. Beth and Daryl was pretty much on par with what I'd expect to see in real life.  Maggie, Bob, and Sasha.. sort of an odd group together but shit, that's the cards they were dealt. 

[CreepMeOut]

 

Development leading to death? But that's never ever happened on this show

 

 

At first I mentioned she may be getting development in a more stronger way but now I feel like shes just gonna continue to go down that hopeless path. Yup. Development leading to death. She seems like the perfect candidate ri for the

Spoiler

Comic Carol death everyone wants to see

I always have. Or atleast Id love to see it since I'm not such a big fan of her character or Emily Kinney's acting.

[StrollingDead]

I know. I was just seeing it didn't make much sense to me for Tyreese/Carol to not put him down and then not mention him

Yes, for God's sake, one thing everyone should have had drummed into their head by now is you never leave someone alive to turn- it's acceptable with Jim in Season 1,but by two years into this- especially that heartless cold-blooded Carol we've heard so much about....

[Stan]

Was anyone else thinking, during the scene of Maggie pulling the zombie by the weave and smashing her face into the bus repeatedly, "Damn, I would NOT want to piss her off"?

Am I the only one turned on a little by this?  

 

Okay, I thought it was a good episode, but not a GREAT one. Lizzie being revealed as troubled and killing was good, but her hand over Judith was GREAT. There was a lot of thinking going on with that one for Lizzie.

 

I liked Carol coming back as she did, no crazy Michonne standing over person scene or anything. Carol is also very guarded and neutral, she did not, after all, know what Rick had said or had time to. She probably had every reason to believe she might have to kill Tyreese shortly. I am hoping Carol sees what Lizzie has become and has to try to deal with it like a surrogate mom. That would be some powerful writing.

 

The Glenn thing started good, but if I think about how he got to the point where he woke up it'll fade on me. Yes, he teamed with the Woodbury girl out of necessity, but remember this is not Naive Glenn. He assessed her when he approached, clearly had the upper hand, and judged her relative threat before telling her he needed her. Breaking free of the walker pile was the weakest point of that part of the show, IMHO. The fire attracts doesn't bother me. Walkers are stimulus creatures. They feed when they sense something they can feed on until something else attracts their attention. Fire would be a powerful visual stimulus. the truck o' redneck survivalists mean nothing to me. Haven't read the comics.

 

Glenn's reaction to Herschel's death, etc. was absolutely dead on. There couldn't be a better way to have had that scene done. Bravo!

 

Maggie remains my visual stimulus, but I thought the character choices were forced this time. This was a wise and somewhat worldly girl before the ZA, and she definitely keeps her sense about her. Checking the bus would be traumatic, but she knows better than to try and do it alone. I was surprised the other characters had to put that much effort into convincing her to organize her search. Slaughter out the back was a waste to me when the doors were forced open, I got so much more out of her walking inside the bus and looking for Glenn. Previews or not, you wondered a little too. Her acting was great-the writing was out of character a touch for me.

 

Beth and Daryl scenes were weak for me. I just don't think they added anything to the show. You could remove them and not gain or lose anything. I don't think the actress who plays Beth is bad at all, but her character hasn't really gained traction and grown yet.

 

The train tracks Walker scenes were just conduit for the next major storyline, but they were obviously so. Again, not strong stuff writing wise. I hope it gets better.

[JesusMonroe]

I liked how random the groups were. They were all fleeing for their lives, it would be too convenient if everyone ended up in their perfect little family groups. Carl and Rick had a nice moment together, but it might have worked even better if they had been separated as well. Carl could really see how much he still needed his father if he wasn't around at all.

 

 

I actually like the fractured group thing. It gives the characters some more time to shine and do their own thing, which I think is important.

 

I think the way they scattered the group was actually pretty believable as well. We saw what happened during the fight and it all sort of flowed and made sense.

 

As far as chemisty is concerned.. what is "Chemistry" exactly? You're in a apocalyptic life threatening situation, you feel like shit, you're foreseeable only chance at happiness was blown up and overrun with walkers.. I don't think anyone is going to be in a good mood or have much chemistry.

 

Glenn and Tara worked well together.. Rick and Carl were good, Tyreese and the kids played out about as good as I think it could have.. Beth and Daryl was pretty much on par with what I'd expect to see in real life.  Maggie, Bob, and Sasha.. sort of an odd group together but shit, that's the cards they were dealt. 

I'm fine with the groups scattering. It's actually a good idea, but they executed it poorly in my opinion

 

I just feel like having Maggie, Sasha, and Bob interact with each other isn't interesting. You see, take another show like Breaking Bad (I know I'm referencing Breaking Bad and some people are sick of it but it fits with the example) and set it in the zombie apocalypse. If everybody was scattered based on the way the people were scattered in TWD, the groups would be something like:

 

Rick and Carl / Walt and Jesse

 

Tyreese, Judith, Lizzie, and Mika / Hank, Holly, Todd, and Walt Jr

 

Maggie, Sasha, and Bob / Skyler, Mike, and Saul

 

Of course, none of this is perfect, but you get my idea. Now, forget about the characters roles in the stories (Hank's a cop and Todd's a criminal) and just base all of this off of PERSONALITY. The fan-fiction-esque scenario I dreamed up sounds infinitely more interesting than what we got in this episode because the characters play off of each other well. Even though Skyler and Mike have never interacted in the series, you can still infer what an interaction between the two of them would be like. Throw Marie into any one of these groups and the entire dynamic will be completely different

 

AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY BREAKING BAD IS AMAZING AND WALKING DEAD SUCKS. I'M JUST USING BREAKING BAD AS AN EXAMPLE

 

My point is, a lot of the characters in TWD don't feel fleshed out enough and many don't even have their own distinctive personalities so making the groups random, while realistic, makes for boring TV. Daryl and Beth together is just boring and I feel like having Daryl and Maggie or Daryl and the kids would've worked a lot nicer. This is off the top of my head so it won't be perfect, but this is an idea of what the groups could be so everyone will play off of each other better

 

Rick/Carl/and eventually Michonne

 

Daryl/Lizzie/Mika

 

Bob/Tara/The Trio (this one could actually show Bob having his own dilemma of using the alcohol to make a molotov)

 

Glenn/Tyreese/and eventually Carol

 

Beth/Maggie/Sasha (this one I made just by default. People will probably disagree and say that the Greenes can't be together)

 

Of course, I don't expect anyone to agree with me. This is all my opinion. I'm just offering my perspective on the situation

[JesusMonroe]

 

 

 

At first I mentioned she may be getting development in a more stronger way but now I feel like shes just gonna continue to go down that hopeless path. Yup. Development leading to death. She seems like the perfect candidate ri for the

Spoiler

Comic Carol death everyone wants to see

I always have. Or atleast Id love to see it since I'm not such a big fan of her character or Emily Kinney's acting.

I was sarcastic in my original post

[Robert F]

My point is, a lot of the characters in TWD don't feel fleshed out enough and many don't even have their own distinctive personalities so making the groups random, while realistic, makes for boring TV. Daryl and Beth together is just boring and I feel like having Daryl and Maggie or Daryl and the kids would've worked a lot nicer. This is off the top of my head so it won't be perfect, but this is an idea of what the groups could be so everyone will play off of each other better

You NAILED IT. After four years, I still don't have any feelings towards Beth - who is she? Funny, smart, sarcastic etc? Beats me, she's just a girl. I have to remind non comic readers that she and Maggie are sisters. They give characters lines to read, but not personalities.

 

In one episode (Clear) I got an a very clear (no pun intended) understanding of who Morgan was/is.

Since Gimple wrote the episode I have high hopes for the future

Michonne was stuck in neutral for some time before they finally started giving her a character. In

[GloriousInfidel]

I keep thinking that Lizzie is going to kill off her sister, like when

Spoiler

Ben kills Billy in the comics

But then I realize that she's not that kind of crazy, and I have no idea as to a plausible response from Tyreese....so I don't even know. Lol

[Blasko_Z]

I keep thinking that Lizzie is going to kill off her sister, like when

Spoiler

Ben kills Billy in the comics

But then I realize that she's not that kind of crazy, and I have no idea as to a plausible response from Tyreese....so I don't even know. Lol

 

That seems like you're splitting hairs. She is the type of crazy that would smother a baby until it dies, but she isn't the type of crazy that would kill her sister?

[StrollingDead]

Voted this one only fair; something I rarely do.

 

Daryl reverting to his persona from Seasons 1 and 2- okay, can put up with that for a while, but (like Rick) he'd better snap out of it soon.

 

Beth I didn't mind- but hey, I spend every day dealing  with teenagers.

 

Tyreese leaving the girls behind- well, he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but not a good decision. Then Mika proudly says "I didn't run" and Tyreese praises her, even though that is exactly opposite of what he just told her to do, and incredibly dumb to boot- you tell your sister there are walkers approaching, no?

 

Lizzie and the baby- reminds me of the final episode of MASH, the most-watched TV episode till a lot more people got TVs. Hawkeye (Alan Alda) is with a bunch of Korean civilians and there are North Korean soldiers prowling around; he keeps pressuring a mother to keep her baby quiet and she ends up smothering it.

 

Glen- talk about character armor -groan, totally ridiculous.

 

Glad to see Carol back, even though her entrance was pretty badly done. Why did she go back to the prison in the first place?

 

Still don't like Bob- he seems like a sit-com character dropped into the ZA.

[General Ian Zane]

I think Tyreese is going to have to kill Lizzie, and then Carol and Ty will be in the same boat. One for a physical disease kill of Tyrese's loved one, the other for a mental disease kill of Carol's loved one.

[JesusMonroe]

You NAILED IT. After four years, I still don't have any feelings towards Beth - who is she? Funny, smart, sarcastic etc? Beats me, she's just a girl. I have to remind non comic readers that she and Maggie are sisters. They give characters lines to read, but not personalities.

In one episode (Clear) I got an a very clear (no pun intended) understanding of who Morgan was/is.
Since Gimple wrote the episode I have high hopes for the future
Michonne was stuck in neutral for some time before they finally started giving her a character. In

Exactly. Sticking a quiet girl with a quiet and brooding guy doesn't make for good TV. If Daryl went with the kids, it could've been funny, developed the kids into tougher survivors, and maybe we could see a tougher side of Daryl. Maybe he could even do a monologue to them about Sophia so we could see it still affects him

[Lioness]

Exactly. Sticking a quiet girl with a quiet and brooding guy doesn't make for good TV. If Daryl went with the kids, it could've been funny, developed the kids into tougher survivors, and maybe we could see a tougher side of Daryl. Maybe he could even do a monologue to them about Sophia so we could see it still affects him

 

That might have been interesting. Daryl leading a bunch of lil' ass kickers.

[TangoJ]

Tyreese, Judith, Lizzie, and Mika / Hank, Holly, Todd, and Walt Jr

Plus one for the Lizzie/Todd juxtaposition!

[JesusMonroe]

Exactly. Sticking a quiet girl with a quiet and brooding guy doesn't make for good TV. If Daryl went with the kids, it could've been funny, developed the kids into tougher survivors, and maybe we could see a tougher side of Daryl. Maybe he could even do a monologue to them about Sophia so we could see it still affects him

I meant to write "softer side of Daryl"

[mosher]

I agree that the show has not developed everyone very well- but I want to give these splits a chance in hopes that instead of being reasons to NOT split, they will be opportunities to fix that mistake of underdevelopment.

 

*fingers crossed*

[Zombie chick]

Agree that Darryl and the kids would've been great but they need to somehow put carol (who's looking after the girls) and tyrese together in the same group to create future drama.