Military?

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#1
SteadyEddie

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Funny how patches of humans have survived the ZA, but the military was overwhelmed, decimated, it seems.

 

There was that National Guard group that was taken out by the Governor and his henchmen.

 

Seems like the military could erect some sort of barricade and keep out zombies much more effectively than the Governor did with Woodbury.

 

 


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#2
Lioness

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I think the military went down pretty early on. Once people started dying and then reanimating and biting others things got quickly out of control. It is likely that many soldiers split to rejoin their families in order to save them, causing a further breakdown of the military at large.


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#3
Valleyaggie

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Uhm. I think they let the military get overrun as a plot device....


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#4
SteadyEddie

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Uhm. I think they let the military get overrun as a plot device....

 

Yeah, I agree. But it'd be cool if they ran into little bands of military groups here and there. I mean, the Gov found a guy with a tank, right?


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#5
Serenity@sea

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Yeah, I agree. But it'd be cool if they ran into little bands of military groups here and there. I mean, the Gov found a guy with a tank, right?

Yes, and he also gunned down a Military group.


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#6
mosher

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Many soldiers would desert to save their families once it became clear the game was over. Of course many soldiers would form a defense together as well. I can't speak to the comic, but the world is HUGE. Why do we assume there are no military camps out there? I'd bet there are many. 


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#7
Bluto

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Many soldiers would desert to save their families once it became clear the game was over. Of course many soldiers would form a defense together as well. I can't speak to the comic, but the world is HUGE. Why do we assume there are no military camps out there? I'd bet there are many.


Exactly. We are looking at a small area in Georgia. We know Atlanta was overrun, but who knows about other cities. There could very possibly be Woodbury like towns run by military units.
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#8
slimymeteor

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Exactly. We are looking at a small area in Georgia. We know Atlanta was overrun, but who knows about other cities. There could very possibly be Woodbury like towns run by military units.

I was going to say something similar.  We've only seen small portions of Georgia, where the national guard didn't really fare too well.  But, it's a large world out there, and certainly there are still bands of soldiers left here and there.  However, I do think a large portion of them went out early on in the outbreak when military outposts were overrun.


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#9
etphoto

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My guess is there are small pockets of military run areas throughout the world.  Its just our small group of heroes hasn't run across any.


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#10
SteadyEddie

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My guess is there are small pockets of military run areas throughout the world.  Its just our small group of heroes hasn't run across any.

This is true. It's hard to cover a lot of ground safely in the ZA. Makes you wonder how many survivors there really are. Seems like they still come across a few here and there in a small area. So worldwide, seems like there's probably a lot of survivors.


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#11
slimymeteor

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Spoilers for the Rise of the Governor novel...

 

Spoiler


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#12
writeoff

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I've often wondered about the various navies from around the world. A lot of vessels would have been at sea during the initial outbreak and would have have had enough supplies to remain so for months. They would have had the technology and weaponry to clear an area before sending people ashore to scout for supplies to bring back to the ship/sub later when needed.


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#13
Ned Low

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I agree with the folks above; there's no reason to conclude that there is "no" military left. 

 

We've seen it in history (the Revolutionary War comes to mind): when soldiers think that their families are in danger, they will largely choose to go home to defend thier own. 

 

We also have to think about all of the soldiers that are overseas; who's to say that they were able to get home?  There are parts of the world that are son crowded (Bangledesh comes to mind) that any military would be out of bullets before they made a dent in the undead's ranks.  (BD has 161M people in an area roughly the size of my home state, North Carolina). 


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#14
Deadpelican

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Not this again. 

 

Look, why is this so hard to understand? 

The military is trained to deal with enemies who surrender when confronted with overwhelming firepower. 

'

Shooting at walkers, shelling walkers, and bombing walkers, simply attracts more walkers from miles around. 

 

Do  you think that their supply of ammo is unlimited or something? 

 

Do you understand the concept of finite resources? 

 

They do not have unlimited supplies of ammo. 

 

As ammo runs out, they must be re-supplied.  This can't happen if factories that produce the ammo are shut down because they are being overrun and the people needed to work them are fleeing.  But that's just one of hundreds of possible complications that would lead to the military's rapid demise. 

 

Not to mention supply lines getting cut off for more reasons that you can possibly imagine.

 

Ammo isn't the only one thing that the military needs. Fuel for vehicles and aircraft are needed. Where do you think that comes from? It has to be  transported from  point A to point B, like everything else.  Transporting them requires people who, once again, are bailing and/ or being killed by the unleaded. 

 

The military would likely secure the parameter around the city- which accomplishes nothing, because new walkers are being spawned inside the city itself, people are dying not just from bites but from any number of causes. 

 

Yeah, some military might have been bailing to go be with their families. 

 

My guess is that most of them simply ran out of bullets and were killed by hordes of walkers. 

 

Simply put, the military are limited in terms of manpower and they need supplies. 

 

No army in the world can defeat an enemy with unlimited manpower who doesn't require food, ammo, and supplies. .


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#15
nazacuckoo

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I believe the military were ordered to protect the cities... And with their limited knowledge of zombies, and the fact that they're in a city with thousands of people...

I can see how they died pretty quickly.


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#16
nazacuckoo

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Not this again. 

 

Look, why is this so hard to understand? 

The military is trained to deal with enemies who surrender when confronted with overwhelming firepower. 

'

Shooting at walkers, shelling walkers, and bombing walkers, simply attracts more walkers from miles around. 

 

Do  you think that their supply of ammo is unlimited or something? 

 

Do you understand the concept of finite resources? 

 

They do not have unlimited supplies of ammo. 

 

As ammo runs out, they must be re-supplied.  This can't happen if factories that produce the ammo are shut down because they are being overrun and the people needed to work them are fleeing.  But that's just one of hundreds of possible complications that would lead to the military's rapid demise. 

 

Not to mention supply lines getting cut off for more reasons that you can possibly imagine.

 

Ammo isn't the only one thing that the military needs. Fuel for vehicles and aircraft are needed. Where do you think that comes from? It has to be  transported from  point A to point B, like everything else.  Transporting them requires people who, once again, are bailing and/ or being killed by the unleaded. 

 

The military would likely secure the parameter around the city- which accomplishes nothing, because new walkers are being spawned inside the city itself, people are dying not just from bites but from any number of causes. 

 

Yeah, some military might have been bailing to go be with their families. 

 

My guess is that most of them simply ran out of bullets and were killed by hordes of walkers. 

 

Simply put, the military are limited in terms of manpower and they need supplies. 

 

No army in the world can defeat an enemy with unlimited manpower who doesn't require food, ammo, and supplies. .

 

They also probably had no idea that zombies can only be killed when their brain is destroyed. The soldiers probably panicked, thinking the zombies were immortal.


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"There's no "I" in team" 

"Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!"


#17
kombat

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While I generally agree with Deadpelican, the show makes it awfully hard to believe at times. 3 adult walkers can't take down a 12 or 13-year old boy, but we're supposed to believe that walkers decimated the military?


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#18
nazacuckoo

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While I generally agree with Deadpelican, the show makes it awfully hard to believe at times. 3 adult walkers can't take down a 12 or 13-year old boy, but we're supposed to believe that walkers decimated the military?

 

Carl knows what Walkers are and knew how to kill them. The military probably didn't have that advantage.


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"There's no "I" in team" 

"Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!"


#19
etphoto

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Not this again. 

 

Look, why is this so hard to understand? 

The military is trained to deal with enemies who surrender when confronted with overwhelming firepower. 

'

Shooting at walkers, shelling walkers, and bombing walkers, simply attracts more walkers from miles around. 

 

Do  you think that their supply of ammo is unlimited or something? 

 

Do you understand the concept of finite resources? 

 

They do not have unlimited supplies of ammo. 

 

As ammo runs out, they must be re-supplied.  This can't happen if factories that produce the ammo are shut down because they are being overrun and the people needed to work them are fleeing.  But that's just one of hundreds of possible complications that would lead to the military's rapid demise. 

 

Not to mention supply lines getting cut off for more reasons that you can possibly imagine.

 

Ammo isn't the only one thing that the military needs. Fuel for vehicles and aircraft are needed. Where do you think that comes from? It has to be  transported from  point A to point B, like everything else.  Transporting them requires people who, once again, are bailing and/ or being killed by the unleaded. 

 

The military would likely secure the parameter around the city- which accomplishes nothing, because new walkers are being spawned inside the city itself, people are dying not just from bites but from any number of causes. 

 

Yeah, some military might have been bailing to go be with their families. 

 

My guess is that most of them simply ran out of bullets and were killed by hordes of walkers. 

 

Simply put, the military are limited in terms of manpower and they need supplies. 

 

No army in the world can defeat an enemy with unlimited manpower who doesn't require food, ammo, and supplies. .

 

HUH??

 

What history class did you forget to take?  History is polluted with badly supplied armies winning battles / wars against greater odds.  I wouldn't know where to begin there are so many examples.  And, those wars were fought against other armies, with equal or better weapons.

 

Since when does a military need planes and gas powered vehicles?  I guess I was absent the day my history teacher talked about George Washington's tanks and jeeps.  

 

Somehow, our small group of heroes, men, women and children are surviving  with limited supplies but trained warrior survivalist can't band together and fight off mindless, slow moving zombies? lol  


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#20
Nareen

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This ZA would have been like nothing ever faced by humanity before.  We don’t know how it happened but if the dead started rising everywhere in the world almost at once, government and military establishments would have been slow to respond, as they always are to something new.  Even if it spread a little more slowly from just one or a few points, how long do you think it would take for them to understand and believe that every person bitten would die, that they would turn, that every person who died from any cause was a threat? 

 

You could blow away a million zombies but there would always be more.  They don’t need supplies, they are tireless, fearless and don’t feel pain.   I can easily imagine military lines being overrun, especially as wounded soldiers died, turned and attacked from behind, so to speak.  As manufacturing and transportation shut down, there would be little to fight with.

 

I agree that a lot of people would have left their posts to try to save their own families.

 

I think that the points about Navy ships and small enclaves of soldiers are valid.  Weren’t Navy ships used as havens in the movie World War Z?  As was mentioned above, we did see that National Guard group that the Governor and his guys murdered.   Their opposite was that POS Mitch.  But those ships and enclaves are elsewhere.

 

As I watch TWD, I often think about how differently, how easily the characters deal with walkers compared to the first season. They are not nearly as panicky and terrified and they know exactly what to do to destroy a walker.   Yet they still die.

 

On TWD, after all this time the survivors are still finding almost unlimited amounts of ammunition, adequate edible food, cars that start and enough gasoline to run them.  For me all that requires more suspension of disbelief than the military collapsing.


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#21
Lioness

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There are probably a thousand reasons why the military hasn't been a real factor in the ZA. We know there are some military groups out there in small numbers. Our gang and others like it survived the initial shock of the ZA while on the run. There are probably small pockets of military groups that did the same. I am not sure how quickly the ZA overtook the world but it had to have been very fast.

 

If you recall the opening episode of season 1 when Rick leaves his bed in the hospital we can see dead people littering the halls. Shane described how the military started killing everyone. One reason I can think for them to do this is because the top military officials knew if the sick died of natural causes they would turn anyway so they ordered their men to shoot everyone. Having to kill your own people would also have caused mass desertions splintering the military even more. We can assume that some folks in the government may have known it but kept the secret like Rick did so they didn't panic everyone else. Of course, the CDC knew it too.

 

DeadPelican has listed a great number of contributing factors regarding why the military would break down. (Excellent post btw.) And yes, George Washington didn't have tanks and jeeps but he also wasn't relying on these things from the get go. Washington's enemy was pretty much equally matched in technology ie., guns vs cannons and guns. Our military is trained to use sophisticated weaponry that obviously broke down. I wonder what the ratio of actual hand to hand combat trained soldiers (like our infantry) v. soldiers who are trained primarily to use machinery and those who are in a support role.


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#22
slimymeteor

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Carl knows what Walkers are and knew how to kill them. The military probably didn't have that advantage.

 

Exactly.  Carl is years into the apocalypse and knows what zombies are and how to kill them.  He knew about headshots while the military during the initial outbreak did not.  And even still, Carl just barely avoided getting killed.


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#23
Lioness

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This ZA would have been like nothing ever faced by humanity before.  We don’t know how it happened but if the dead started rising everywhere in the world almost at once, government and military establishments would have been slow to respond, as they always are to something new.  Even if it spread a little more slowly from just one or a few points, how long do you think it would take for them to understand and believe that every person bitten would die, that they would turn, that every person who died from any cause was a threat? 

 

You could blow away a million zombies but there would always be more.  They don’t need supplies, they are tireless, fearless and don’t feel pain.   I can easily imagine military lines being overrun, especially as wounded soldiers died, turned and attacked from behind, so to speak.  As manufacturing and transportation shut down, there would be little to fight with.

 

I agree that a lot of people would have left their posts to try to save their own families.

 

I think that the points about Navy ships and small enclaves of soldiers are valid.  Weren’t Navy ships used as havens in the movie World War Z?  As was mentioned above, we did see that National Guard group that the Governor and his guys murdered.   Their opposite was that POS Mitch.  But those ships and enclaves are elsewhere.

 

As I watch TWD, I often think about how differently, how easily the characters deal with walkers compared to the first season. They are not nearly as panicky and terrified and they know exactly what to do to destroy a walker.   Yet they still die.

 

On TWD, after all this time the survivors are still finding almost unlimited amounts of ammunition, adequate edible food, cars that start and enough gasoline to run them.  For me all that requires more suspension of disbelief than the military collapsing.

 

We also don't know what caused the ZA. It could be that at least some people on the ship were infected. If that is the case then it is possible the ships became floating coffins.


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#24
GirlsDeadMonster

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I would agree that the military were the first to go only because they are that last line of defense. Military, police, and other first responders run towards the danger, not away from it so they would be the first to be lost trying to save others. Eventually, once others saw it was a losing battle they made a run for it and now they are among the survivors.


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#25
kombat

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Look at how long it took the government to get water to the Superdome after Katrina? There would be a billion zombies worldwide before governments did ANYTHING.


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