[JesusMonroe]

Hey JesusMonroe, do you ever vote on the polls? I ask because I can never find your name on the list.

Oh shit. I never knew that you could see what other people voted. No, I don't vote on polls, whether I think an episode is excellent or poor. To be honest, I don't think there are enough options lol. I don't need 10 (perfect, amazing, great, good, above average, average, below average, bad, terrible, shit) but I think there should be at least 5. I feel like "fair" constitutes "not good, not bad" so there probably should be a rating between poor and fair. It seems like too large of a gap to me. 

 

So? Next week's episode might be amazing, and you wouldn't want to miss out on that if it's the case, would you?

(I will watch next week's episode since I promised Koibito, but I'll continue the post anyway)

 

Next week's episode might be amazing. If it is, that'll be fan-fucking-tastic. However, I keep thinking about how all of the Walking Dead's poorest episodes have followed its strongest. I'm just a bit apprehensive

 

It's just my opinion and I don't think it's invalid. This isn't a young show trying to find it's way or an audience. It's a mature show nearing the end of its 4th season. If you still think episodes are or can be 'poor', why watch the show? I'm not saying every episode is great, or has to be great. Of course there will be down episodes. The only episode I would rate 'poor' is the one where Lori was eaten whole. If someone thinks or expects that multiple episodes a season are or will be 'poor', why watch? Find something better to do with your time. And this isn't just about TWD. It can apply to any show.

 

Your logic doesn't make sense to me. You seem to not like most episodes, but you make it seem worthwhile just because you liked After. Why watch a show you seem to not like overall hoping for that golden nugget episode?

 

I'm not really saying 'don't watch'. More like I'm asking the question why are people that don't like the show still watching it?

Now that I know you can see who voted poor, I can firmly say that you're wrong. I know 3/6 of the people who voted poor, and they always give fair reviews, including many positive ones.

 

The flaw in your opinion is that you're assuming anyone who didn't like the episode is just somebody who's hate-watching the show, hoping it'll get better, when that's not true. Some people just didn't like it for reasons that were already listed by others

[Deadpelican]

Are they really lingering on things right now, though? There have only been 9 episodes so far, and to me, leaving some plotlines lingering for less than 10 episodes really isn't a big deal. In fact, I'd argue that it's better than having everything conveniently wrapped up within a few episodes of being introduced.

Fair point but  Kombat was wondering why someone could vote this episode poor and still keep watching the show. So I gave him my rationale. 

[SteadyEddie]

I think after sitting through the mid-season break, you have so many questions, especially after the fall of the prison, everyone is split up. 

So you wanna know, is everyone OK? Where did they go? Is Judith alive? Did any of them encounter more zombies? Did anyone meet up with Carol? What about the freaky little girls?

 

It's human nature to have the hunger for these questions and it proves that they created a show that you care about the characters.

 

So I can understand that some people are a bit peeved that they focused on just Carl and Rick right off the bat. At some point, I felt like I was getting tired of it, but in retrospect, they wrapped it up really nicely and did a lot of things well. Just because it didn't satisfy my every whim doesn't mean I can't appreciate it as a really good episode.

[Zvivor]

I'm in the minority, I guess,.  Other than Carl telling off unconscious Rick (as any young teen would have and which I think someone should have a long time ago), the story was dull and inconsistent with prior shows.    Michonne told Andrea the two pets were never human to begin with and we saw a flashback of her boyfriend and his friend (which, like someone above, I at first thought was some kind of satiric commercial).   

 

Here's my real beef, though:    I agree with AMC's prior ads, "Story Matters".  There was no story being told about Rick and Carl here, nor about Michonne.   What might happen next as to them-- who the heck knows?  Why should anyone watch.   The only story still "on-line" (and nobody knows if TWD is going to develop it is Carol-Rick-Tyrese-Lizzie and the death of Karen and David.   Not saying they can't start new stories, but they definitely did not start a new story with this episode.    There was absolutely no "what's going to happen next" in this episode.   I turned off the TV figuring Andrew Lincoln has another show lined up.     "Flipping" to somebody else's story or from one story to another just isn't going to do it for me.         

 

My minor beef was the flaws in the story:  the stupidity of all the characters leaving all the cars, many from the Gov complete likely with keys and gas,  behind and that kind of thing.    

 

That said, contrary to many other posters, I totally enjoyed Carl being a typical young teen, angry at Rick and telling Rick everything the adults should have told him before. 

[jayde]

I definitely think Carl is going to attempt to improve in other areas combat wise now. He's a solid shot and he's good at using his environment to his advantage but without a gun it gets a bit risky. too risky.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if he gets his own weapon and Michonne trains him

 

I hope Michonne does help teach him some combat skills. She's amazing with that sword and can handle herself with a bunch of walkers if she really needs to. Carl is now an egotistical teenager who thinks he's some big man but he's obviously still a little boy when it comes to dealing with some walkers. If he's going to maintain this attitude (which I hope he doesn't), then someone needs to teach that kid how to survive in the ZA when he doesn't have a gun or anyone else to rely on otherwise he may not last too long.

[Serenity@sea]

I hope Michonne does help teach him some combat skills. She's amazing with that sword and can handle herself with a bunch of walkers if she really needs to. Carl is now an egotistical teenager who thinks he's some big man but he's obviously still a little boy when it comes to dealing with some walkers. If he's going to maintain this attitude (which I hope he doesn't), then someone needs to teach that kid how to survive in the ZA when he doesn't have a gun or anyone else to rely on otherwise he may not last too long.

 

I think Michonne is a very good mentor for Carl. Just like in "Clear" when she basically told him to knock off his shit.

Carl needs that.

[jayde]

I think Michonne is a very good mentor for Carl. Just like in "Clear" when she basically told him to knock off his shit.

Carl needs that.

 

Agreed. I think he needs someone he respects to give him a kick in the pants to smarten him up a bit, as they say. It has to be someone that isn't his father and other than Hershel, Michonne is the best one to do that. It's unfortunate that he can't be a normal teenager in a normal world but tantrums and that kind of ego will literally get people killed in this world and Carl needs to remember that.

[thelastpaul]

Agreed. I think he needs someone he respects to give him a kick in the pants to smarten him up a bit, as they say. It has to be someone that isn't his father and other than Hershel, Michonne is the best one to do that. It's unfortunate that he can't be a normal teenager in a normal world but tantrums and that kind of ego will literally get people killed in this world and Carl needs to remember that.

 

I think the Tantrums and Ego flare up will die down a bit compared to this last episode. He learned his lesson, imo, when he realized that he was still physically too weak to take on 1Walker by himself without a gun. I think we'll see a very focused Carl again going forward.

[Steph]

I think the Tantrums and Ego flare up will die down a bit compared to this last episode. He learned his lesson, imo, when he realized that he was still physically too weak to take on 1Walker by himself without a gun. I think we'll see a very focused Carl again going forward.

 

 

Yeah, I think so too. I'm sure we'll still see a little bit of attitude, but then again, maybe that knocked the chip off his shoulder too. He almost died a couple of times, and then thought his dad died. Hopefully it was the shock he needed to get his head out of his ass. 

[Crumple]

Really good episode.  plied some good emotional stuff...the whole Rick/Carl thing was well done and I actually teared up a bit when Carl put his forehead on his Dad's and cried "I was wrong".  And then when he gave up when he thought Rick might have turned...he was just emotionally spent.  Good work by young Chandler in those scenes.

 

Michonne's journey in the woods was mesmerizing...I could see it all over her face "I'm right back where I was before I met Andrea".  She looked into the abyss....saw herself as a walker...and freaked out.  get busy living or get busy dying as Andy DeFrense would say.

 

That's why the emotion rung well when she said to her dead boyfriend Michael "I understand why now".  She now knew what it was like to reach the end.  Just like he must have...and he made a different choice.  And maybe with her son too?  wow that's awful.  Dana played it well and I was with her all episode.

 

Great follow up to the mid-season climax.  A quieter show.  a what now? show.  find a house, find some food, find other survivors.  It never ends does it?

 

my only quibble would be that they borrowed some of that emotional vibe from The Road but that's ok.

 

As for Carl...I would love to see him start to really admire his Dad...for him to realize how hard Rick has been trying to keep Carl safe...and Lori and Judith.  How every decision Rick makes is about other people...and trying, always trying, to keep civilization going somehow.

[Pickles312]

I'm sorry but I feel like I need to bring up how the whole walker buddy system Michonne uses makes no sense.

 

There are walkers everywhere, so why doesn't their smell mask the smell of Michonne? Why aren't the pets still attacking Michonne? The whole points of cutting the arms and throat is that they can't bite or grab you anymore because they will still attack you! And then the other zombies would catch on to that and attack her. If she had the guts on her it would make sense, but in a mass of zombies having more zombies with you shouldn't do anything. It makes no damn sense!

 

I know people have touched on this before and I know it's a comic thing too so it's not like the writers invented it but I still can't stand to watch it without saying something.

[thelastpaul]

I'm sorry but I feel like I need to bring up how the whole walker buddy system Michonne uses makes no sense.

 

There are walkers everywhere, so why doesn't their smell mask the smell of Michonne? Why aren't the pets still attacking Michonne? The whole points of cutting the arms and throat is that they can't bite or grab you anymore because they will still attack you! And then the other zombies would catch on to that and attack her. If she had the guts on her it would make sense, but in a mass of zombies having more zombies with you shouldn't do anything. It makes no damn sense!

 

I know people have touched on this before and I know it's a comic thing too so it's not like the writers invented it but I still can't stand to watch it without saying something.

 

When Milton was observing them he made a comment along the lines of "Take away their ability to eat and they become docile" -- So once they lose their arms and jaws the need to attack seems to fade. This is the best explanation we got.

[Robert F]

I'm sorry but I feel like I need to bring up how the whole walker buddy system Michonne uses makes no sense.

 

There are walkers everywhere, so why doesn't their smell mask the smell of Michonne? Why aren't the pets still attacking Michonne? The whole points of cutting the arms and throat is that they can't bite or grab you anymore because they will still attack you! And then the other zombies would catch on to that and attack her. If she had the guts on her it would make sense, but in a mass of zombies having more zombies with you shouldn't do anything. It makes no damn sense!

 

I know people have touched on this before and I know it's a comic thing too so it's not like the writers invented it but I still can't stand to watch it without saying something.

I think the comic explained the pets more as a deterrent. If walkers are 100 feet away, the smell of the pets will hide you. Also, since the pets are not acting aggressive, there is no visual stimulus either. So you could walk along without being noticed.

 

However, your point is valid - that wouldn't work walking in the middle of a group.

[jayde]

I think the Tantrums and Ego flare up will die down a bit compared to this last episode. He learned his lesson, imo, when he realized that he was still physically too weak to take on 1Walker by himself without a gun. I think we'll see a very focused Carl again going forward.

 

Possibly and I hope it goes this way. But on the flip side, Carl is still just a kid...How old is he, 13, 14? He's entering that age when every teenager becomes a know-it-all and thinks they know best just because they managed to get a few things right. Like every other kid in the ZA he has to grow up quickly now and sometimes a reality check like Carl had is enough of a life lesson to set him straight. I don't know if this is the end of Carl having these flare ups as realistically, he would be in this stage of his life for quite some time. I hope it does die down some, though, because sometimes I just wish someone would smack Carl silly.

[shrike]

I wonder if the scene where Carl almost shot Rick will resonate later on.  Perhaps someone will shoot someone where they look dead but aren't, or will hesitate not sure if they're dead

[thelastpaul]

Agreed. Walkers are supposed to be mindless creatures without the ability to learn. That would imply reasoning.

Quite the opposite actually. If they get their attacking parts chopped off and pretty much instantly become docile that would imply less reasoning and more base level "instinct".

If you cut their attacking parts off and it takes time for them to stop attacking you THAT shows reasoning.

[SteadyEddie]

In season 1, walkers turned doorknobs, picked up rocks to smash glass, and climbed up chain-link fences.

It seems there's SOME sort of learning involved there.

[Chinghis]

In season 1, walkers turned doorknobs, picked up rocks to smash glass, and climbed up chain-link fences.

It seems there's SOME sort of learning involved there.

Yes, but that was when they were still trying to figure out what kind of zombies they wanted to have in the show. They kind of went with Romero-zombies in the beginning, probably because that's partly what we expected. Kirkman-zombies, however, shouldn't really have that level of reasoning, and they moved away from that as time went on.

 

And, no, if there jaws are gone and they're unable to feed, they don't know that - they should still be driven by the basic urge to attack (I would argue, forever - any lessening of the urge implies that they have some level of reason, which I don't think they do).

[Serenity@sea]

Quite the opposite actually. If they get their attacking parts chopped off and pretty much instantly become docile that would imply less reasoning and more base level "instinct".

If you cut their attacking parts off and it takes time for them to stop attacking you THAT shows reasoning.

A mindless creature would just keep trying to get their prey. For them to stop implies that they thought, 'Well, this is useless, might as well quit trying.'

 

Agreed

 

Yes, but that was when they were still trying to figure out what kind of zombies they wanted to have in the show. They kind of went with Romero-zombies in the beginning, probably because that's partly what we expected. Kirkman-zombies, however, shouldn't really have that level of reasoning, and they moved away from that as time went on.

 

And, no, if there jaws are gone and they're unable to feed, they don't know that - they should still be driven by the basic urge to attack (I would argue, forever - any lessening of the urge implies that they have some level of reason, which I don't think they do).

Yeah, I think that Darabont did go with Romero-like zombies. It was done for more dramatic effect.

[daenerys]

I was a little disappointed with this episode. The high points were Michonne and her back story, and Karl in the young boys bedroom - very poignant.  I haven't been feeling Rick for quite some time and did not for a moment think he had died, so the whole 'return as a walker' scare fell flat on me. Actually, I rolled my eyes and wished he had died.

 

Can't wait to see what the others are doing next week

[ZombieDoubleRainbow]

I was a little disappointed with this episode. The high points were Michonne and her back story, and Karl in the young boys bedroom - very poignant. I haven't been feeling Rick for quite some time and did not for a moment think he had died, so the whole 'return as a walker' scare fell flat on me. Actually, I rolled my eyes and wished he had died.

Can't wait to see what the others are doing next week

The point wasn't to convince the audience he died, it was to convince Carl he did. To remind Carl that he still needs his dad and show him that despite all his bluster he'd rather die than lose him.

I'll never get the Rick needing to die line of thought lately. It's his story. The show would immediately take a downturn if they did kill him.

[Mr. NomNom]

The point wasn't to convince the audience he died, it was to convince Carl he did. To remind Carl that he still needs his dad and show him that despite all his bluster he'd rather die than lose him.

I'll never get the Rick needing to die line of thought lately. It's his story. The show would immediately take a downturn if they did kill him.

It's his story now. Doesn't mean he won't die. It could go from Ricks story to Carls story. To me it's a Rick story then going to Carl, to see how a kid survives through this cruel world.

[Deadpelican]

The point wasn't to convince the audience he died, it was to convince Carl he did. To remind Carl that he still needs his dad and show him that despite all his bluster he'd rather die than lose him.

I'll never get the Rick needing to die line of thought lately. It's his story. The show would immediately take a downturn if they did kill him.

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right, but  like the governor episodes, it's not telling us anything we didn't (more or less) know already.

 

They spent an entire episode illustrating that a kid of his age, maturity  and stature can't make it on his own during a zombie apocalypse. 

 

Yeah. No kidding. 

[ZombieDoubleRainbow]

Better he learns it then keep up with the annoying attitude lol.

[ZombieDoubleRainbow]

It's his story now. Doesn't mean he won't die. It could go from Ricks story to Carls story. To me it's a Rick story then going to Carl, to see how a kid survives through this cruel world.

The story dies when Rick does, personally.

I think Carl is portrayed accurately for his age but no way would I want it to be his story. That's get old and irritating hella fast.