All Out War - Part One (Volume 20) Review

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#26
DaneBramage

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6/10 I just expected more to be honest. People keep saying its building up and it will kick into gear in part 2. But issues 100-114 were all building to this. It just feels like Kirkman doesn't pull the trigger any more, he builds you up and builds you up but doesn't give the promised pay off these days. He's like that girl that will tease and tease, maybe foreplay then zilch... man I love/hate you Kirkman
Hopefully part 2 is better

Agreed.

So my opinion is invalid because you think i hyped it up for myself ???

If that is the case you are very very wrong my friend.


I'm with PT and the rest there's been too many "redshirts" fragged in this vol. I say it needed at least three or four major/minor characters to bite it for my taste.

This has been a great set-up for a fragfest though. I am a little more generous I give it a 6.87 (a little extra for the Mk.2 grenades).


And JesusMonroe- this arc was a promotional orgy- T-shirts, Action Figures, bi-Weekly releases- all of this HYPE was to raise expectations and SELL SHIT.
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#27
DHeav60

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Looking back - I have mixed feelings about the character deaths so far in AOW. First, I get the inclination that the reason there are so many unnamed characters in ASZ, Hilltop and The Kingdom - is because Kirkman new that the war was around the corner, and he'd need lots of deaths to fit the story arc.

With named character deaths - Kirkman can never win with everyone. People complain when undeveloped characters are killed (i.e. "redshirts") just as people complain when loved characters are killed abruptly or in a manner that they disagree with. There really aren't a ton of named characters at this point.

Would you rather: A) unnamed characters die offscreen after a major battle like in #120

or: B] A brief character introduction followed by a pathetic attempt to develop said character, followed in turn by a swift death

Option B is what the TV show does on a regular basis and it's annoying as hell. I'd rather live with unnamed characters and have them die off than get an intro/minor development that gets my hopes up that the character may add something to the story.


Should there have been more named deaths in part 1 of AOW? Maybe. Eric, Holly, and Denise are gone. Andrea was beaten within an inch of her life. Carl could be seriously injured - Heath had his leg blown off and is SEVERELY handicapped. Ezekial suffered heavy emotional trauma, as well as losing the majority of his fighters. ASZ has been nearly destroyed. The good guys have actually lost quite a bit, and I'm sure they will lose many more named characters in AOW part 2.

The Saviors have lost a large portion of their total forces - and yet very few named characters (the ones that were named were as redshirt as they come). Of course - the Saviors had very few named characters to begin with. Negan, Dwight, and Carson (as well as Negan's 'wives' Sherry and Amber) are the only named ones remaining
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#28
Sgthewolverine

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I'd say I've enjoyed it emensely. Maybe I have a higher suspension of disbelief then some of you, but the inconsistencies don't keep me from enjoying it to the full extent that I can. I'm not sure why there seems to be so many negative comments, or why so many of you need to hate on it to the extent you do. I come here to discuss the book with like minded folk, and for the most part that's what I get. But some people seem only interested in muck raking and resentment. Now I'm not naive enough to expect us all to agree and get along, nor would I want us too. One eye sees flat. It takes two eyes to see clearly and with depth. But in my attempt to see the story better through other view points, I find many minds bitter and jaded.
Okay I'm off my soap box, but in closing I'd say
It's a comic. Enjoy it, or don't. I realy don't have any fucks to give on the matter, but don't be surprised when people tell you you point isn't valid. Because it isn't. :)
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#29
DaneBramage

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Criticism is not hate. I love the series. I'm having a ball with AOW and bi-weekly releases. I'm doubtful as to how this whole Negan thing will translate to the TV show.
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#30
Sgthewolverine

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Criticism is not hate. I love the series. I'm having a ball with AOW and bi-weekly releases. I'm doubtful as to how this whole Negan thing will translate to the TV show.

criticism is great when it constructive. Even though none of us have any control over the situation, it's still fun to play what if. But it feels like you have your typical (beg pardon but it's true ) trolls who are never satisfied, or closer to the point only satisfied when their bitching. It just becomes a bit trying, and I'm fully aware that if I don't like it, I don't have to read it. I guess what pisses me off is being scoffed at for enjoying it, and those who attempt to show their superiority by insinuating my thoughts and theories are invalid. In other words some of these big mouthed mother fuckers could use a good pop in the aforementioned big mouths.

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#31
JesusMonroe

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PorkTornado and DaneBramage are NOT trolls

That being said, I do think some expectations for this arc are unreasonable. People need to keep in mind that the story is going to continue after this. If this was the final arc of the Walking Dead, then yeah, it would be underwhelming. It's not, though. We can't have so many big character deaths or the story won't continue afterwards. And I think a lot of the criticism is kind of unreasonable, too. I'm not saying there's nothing to criticize, but the complaints I've heard are

-Not enough deaths
-Underwhelming
-Doesn't feel like a war
-Too much filler
-Confusing (with the base locations and what not)
-Ezekiel

The only complaints that are reasonable are the last two. The others aren't even true

I'm with PT and the rest there's been too many "redshirts" fragged in this vol. I say it needed at least three or four major/minor characters to bite it for my taste.

And JesusMonroe- this arc was a promotional orgy- T-shirts, Action Figures, bi-Weekly releases- all of this HYPE was to raise expectations and SELL SHIT.

Holly, Eric, Denise (almost), and Shiva have died. That's four major/minor characters right there. This volume has actually had the most deaths of named characters since Made to Suffer and the most deaths in a single volume (major, minor, or unnamed).

And as for hype, I'm not denying they wanted to raise it, but it's whether or not you let the hype get to you. It's happened before in pop culture and it'll happen again
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#32
Cthulhu42

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Holly, Eric, Denise (almost), and Shiva have died. That's four major/minor characters right there. This volume has actually had the most deaths of named characters since Made to Suffer and the most deaths in a single volume (major, minor, or unnamed).

That's not true. Even counting Shiva and Denise (which are both debatable, as the former's just an animal and the latter hasn't yet died), No Way Out had more named character deaths; Bruce, Tobin, Jessie, Ron, Douglas, and Morgan.
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#33
PorkTornado75

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Come pop me in the mouth and see what you get..................
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#34
JesusMonroe

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That's not true. Even counting Shiva and Denise (which are both debatable, as the former's just an animal and the latter hasn't yet died), No Way Out had more named character deaths; Bruce, Tobin, Jessie, Ron, Douglas, and Morgan.

David, Davis, and Richard also died in this volume, but try weren't important enough for me to mention
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#35
Sgthewolverine

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Wasn't a directed comment, more of an open ended rant. but I'd bet my hypothetical internet balls are just as big as yours bud.
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#36
Cthulhu42

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David, Davis, and Richard also died in this volume, but try weren't important enough for me to mention

Well, if we're counting such minor characters, then Fear the Hunters beats it, since, IIRC, every Hunter had their own name.
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#37
PorkTornado75

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My balls aint hypotheical neither are my guns but i get your point , i might seem harsh on the comic sometimes but i still enjoy the book and everyone knows that.

It has just not been as great latley as everyone says it is imo.

If you read as many comics as i do you woukd notice some slippage in quality compared to other comics.
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#38
JesusMonroe

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Well, if we're counting such minor characters, then Fear the Hunters beats it, since, IIRC, every Hunter had their own name.

I was counting minor characters and I did count the hunters. However, I forgot that Ben and Billy died in that arc, so I guess you're right

It has just not been as great latley as everyone says it is imo.

The Walking Dead has been through some lulls (volumes 15, 16, 18, 19 are very forgettable), but this is the most enamored I've been with it in a LONG time
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#39
PorkTornado75

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The key words being "ive been" not everyone feels the same.

I still think this is a great comic or i wouldnt be on these forums but for me personally as a person that has been reading it monthly since 2003 its lost some luster.
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#40
JesusMonroe

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The key words being "ive been" not everyone feels the same.

I still think this is a great comic or i wouldnt be on these forums but for me personally as a person that has been reading it monthly since 2003 its lost sime luster.

Well, of course not everyone feels the same, which is why you can't say, "It's not as great lately as everyone says"

But to be perfectly honest, if I started reading the comic in 2003, I probably would've given up around No Way Out
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#41
PorkTornado75

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I guess my point is Jesus that i was just looking at the Savior body count thread BB was so kind to make and looking at the total deaths of just Saviors I am having a hard time even remembering them getting killed without going back in to check the issues.

To me the fact i dont really remember this stuff happening is enough for me to justify my feelings on it losing some luster.
When before every death seemed to stick with you minor or major character.
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#42
Cthulhu42

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I was counting minor characters and I did count the hunters. However, I forgot that Ben and Billy died in that arc, so I guess you're right

The Walking Dead has been through some lulls (volumes 15, 16, 18, 19 are very forgettable), but this is the most enamored I've been with it in a LONG time

Heh, glad we got that sorted out.

And funny that you say Volume 19 was forgettable; to me, Spencer's death, Rick's failed assassination of Negan, and Andrea's fight with Connor were all far more interesting and exciting than anything we've seen in AOW so far. I guess it goes to show we all like different things, and nobody's opinion on any given volume is "right".
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#43
JesusMonroe

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And funny that you say Volume 19 was forgettable; to me, Spencer's death, Rick's failed assassination of Negan, and Andrea's fight with Connor were all far more interesting and exciting than anything we've seen in AOW so far. I guess it goes to show we all like different things, and nobody's opinion on any given volume is "right".

The Andrea scene was definitely more memorable than anything seen in All Out War so far (though the Holly scene might rival it. I'm not sure because I had to suspend my disbelief on that one), but everything you're mentioning is in the last 3 issues (technically 4, but pretty much 3 since Spencer died at the end of 111)

Anyway, I didn't care much for Spencer's death but I suppose that was the hype of seeing the cover for 111 way beforehand and theorizing who Negan was going to kill. Spencer's name was thrown around, but it seemed like the most disappointing choice

The worst issue (to me) in AOW so far is issue 116. It was over in like five seconds and it wasn't particularly exciting. I've enjoyed pretty much all of the other issues in AOW. I just don't remember much from Volume 19 (it also had the awful troll Kal betrayal scene and then Jesus convinced him not to betray them but just reiterating what we knew...)
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#44
Cthulhu42

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I definitely agree that 116 was the weakest recent issue; part of the reason I didn't like 120 as much as I maybe should have is because the first battle of the war was such a disappointment, and I was expecting more out of the second to make up for it.
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#45
DaneBramage

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I liked the whole Carl Negan interaction at the Negan's pad.
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#46
nazacuckoo

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Actually, image.com is saying March 5th.


Weird... I definitely have volume 19... And I definitely got it during December from an online website known as "The Book Depository".
They say all out war part 1 is being released in March...
I'll see if I can post pics as proof, because I definitely have it.
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#47
gracie lou

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Weird... I definitely have volume 19... And I definitely got it during December from an online website known as "The Book Depository".
They say all out war part 1 is being released in March...
I'll see if I can post pics as proof, because I definitely have it.


I thought you were talking about 20. Sorry. Yeah, 19 has been out for a while.
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#48
bkottond

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He's like that girl that will tease and tease, maybe foreplay then zilch... man I love/hate you Kirkman
Hopefully part 2 is better


I dont real know any females like that. I can only think of two reason that i don't know females that pull that being a tease, shit... 1, I close on said deal, meaning forpay or not, we end up fucking. That or 2, maybe the females i've laid with were just really whores (whores in the meaning, that they like to fuck/fuck with me), and whores dont have the time or want to teasing.... Maybe thats the reason that ive got 2 baby mamas
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#49
bkottond

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You all know the saying " opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink" rite! but it does seem like a lot of people on R&L are drinking a lot of hateraid more so recently the not. Why? I dont know, people are just funny that way. Eith they truly hate something and want nothing to do with, or the deal with something just so they can hate on it. I've guilty of both styles of hate/haterisoms. An example: i hate organized religion, so i stay far far away from it. I want nothing to do With it. And an other example is the show homeland. I only started to watch it, after it won an Emmy for S1 and beat out BrBa. I just had to see this show for my self. So i peeped out S1 in Netflix. Their were things i enjoyed about, but over all, it left a bad taste in my mouth. But sure as shit, S2 starts up, and there i am watching every episode the night it airs. While the whole time im watching it, im bitching and moaning about every thing in the stupid show. It wasn't until my mate pointed it out to me, (as she loves to do) that i realized she was rite, i was hate watching the show. I hated every thing about that show and its 2nd season. I figured out that i was watching it, just so i could argue a point about how awful i thought the show was, when i heard anyone praising it. I realized, nobody really gave two shits about my opinion, and what i thought about it. Cause they had their opinions about that show, and i didnt give two shits what they though about it. After a while, i realized, i wasted a lot of time and energy into and got a lot frustration out of it... Once i noticed i was just being a hater on the show, i stop wasting my time witg it... Im very happy to say,that i know nothing about its 3rd season, and could give a shit less about seening it. Im guessing, that people who hate TWD, have nothing to do with the show/comic/games or anything else with TWD, attached to it. Then there seems to be the haters of one form of TWD and not the others, ie: the show or the comic (this form of hate is the most i see, especially on R&L). For what ever reasons, it seems that nowadays, there seems to be alot of hate watchers/reads on this forum, just love to hate in the show or comic, just to hear them self hating, cause that what gets then off. Hates are gunna hate, cause that what they do best, bitch, moan and complane. This isn't Burger King, you're not going to have it your way. There is no way of pleasing ever one. So fuck them and take TWD, as it is. As far as what i think about AOW p1, i think it was the tits, mostly because i enjoy the comic. Plane and simple. I didn't go into AOW, with expectation of this or that, mostly cause ive got no say in what happens and im just here to enjoy it. I love whats going on in it, and im loving the by weekly time frame. im excited for p2, and what comes after. but come on these forums bitch about this and that, and that your criticism has the right to be heard, is fucking pointless. Write to kirkman himself if you feel so passionate hating on/about it. But he will be the first one to tell you he doesn't give two fucks what you have to say or think . Im enjoying AOW just as much as i have any of part of the comic. because i haven't been reading the comic since oct 2003, (since issue 1) like other "CLAIM" they have been ( cough* bullshit* cough ) i normal judge an arc once its run its course. AOW, is 12 issues, so to judge it at the middle of the arc sounds reDICKuless to me. I dont care how this arc is being broken up into 2 parts for the tpb book, cause i don't read those one. I guess what im saying is, i'll wait until all 12 issues are out, before give anyone my two cents about AOW.... Good night, roamer, haters and lurkers!
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#50
Koibito

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The lack of use of the button ''Enter'' in that post makes my eyes water.

Man.....no offense, but that is hard as fuck to read.
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