True Detective

- - - - - King in Yellow and Lovecraft? Hell yes!

#26
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football
This quote:

"If you get the chance you should kill yourself." - act of mercy? I think so.

Also not to disrespect this entire forum, nor to RK, but this material is at least two evolutionary stages of intellect above TWD.

Fucking amazing.
  • 2

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#27
OMEN

OMEN

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 4,114
  • LocationBack in Gods Country - TEXAS
Lol Did you notice the taillight on Cohles truck was still broken from the fight they had I don't think it was an act of mercy, more of a act of judgement. IMHO I don't think cohle think she deserves to live. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2
  • 0


#28
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

I think he was relating his own experience to Charmaine's. BTW her picture is in one of the Classes of the Church's program. There's also the painting in Hart's Bedroom is the Wall of the Children's Psych Ward Wall same exact painting. I think Hart's daughter or Maggie was there. I think her dad is involved.


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#29
Ansceniiiic

Ansceniiiic

    Zombie Herder

  • Members
  • 9,472

This quote:

"If you get the chance you should kill yourself." - act of mercy? I think so.

Also not to disrespect this entire forum, nor to RK, but this material is at least two evolutionary stages of intellect above TWD.

Fucking amazing.

I don't think it's disrespectful at all to recognise that the show is indeed superior. I love The Walking Dead for what it is, which is a good comic/show that at times can be really great or mediocre, and I shall follow it until the end. But True Detective really has been a standout show which is credit to both Harrelson and McConaughey, the writer Nic Pizzolatto, director Cary Fukunaga and HBO's production. I just hope they can carry it onto next season with the different cast, storyline, setting etc..Because as refreshing as it sounds, the first season really has set the bar high, so whoever is cast next season will have to match or better it. Speaking of which, I'm curious as to who people would want as detectives for season two. I think Damian Lewis and Idris Elba would be a good pairing.


  • 0

#30
Walker_Bait

Walker_Bait

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,342

Nic Pizzolatto tweeted it might be two females in Season 2. Jessica Chastain and Marion Cotillard would be cool.


  • 0

#31
OMEN

OMEN

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 4,114
  • LocationBack in Gods Country - TEXAS
Oh maybe Molly Parker she's a politician on House of cards and and Carla Gugino
  • 0


#32
JesusMonroe

JesusMonroe

    Hallelujer! Im STILL Alive!

  • Members
  • 5,836
Marion Cotillard was always a little hammy for me
  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#33
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

I don't think it's disrespectful at all to recognise that the show is indeed superior. I love The Walking Dead for what it is, which is a good comic/show that at times can be really great or mediocre, and I shall follow it until the end. But True Detective really has been a standout show which is credit to both Harrelson and McConaughey, the writer Nic Pizzolatto, director Cary Fukunaga and HBO's production. I just hope they can carry it onto next season with the different cast, storyline, setting etc..Because as refreshing as it sounds, the first season really has set the bar high, so whoever is cast next season will have to match or better it. Speaking of which, I'm curious as to who people would want as detectives for season two. I think Damian Lewis and Idris Elba would be a good pairing.

 

Thanks dude- trying to be a good neighbor :)

 

I think (if I was a mega talented actor) if I got next year's role as a lead in Season 2- I'd puke. Man this is insane. The folks taking the pieces apart and trying to find the answer to the puzzle....


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#34
Walker_Bait

Walker_Bait

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,342

Marion Cotillard was always a little hammy for me

 

I felt that way with the Batman movie. I think that was part of her role.


  • 0

#35
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

God she's sexy. But I fear in my heart of hearts that she can't act her way out of a paper sack...


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#36
OMEN

OMEN

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 4,114
  • LocationBack in Gods Country - TEXAS
Lol that's funny
  • 0


#37
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

Wow tonight's ep. 12 Volt fun.


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#38
Ansceniiiic

Ansceniiiic

    Zombie Herder

  • Members
  • 9,472

God damn, I fucking knew it! I had a slight suspicion that there was something shady about the guy mowing the lawn when Rust was questioning him back in the third episode. His long stare after Rust walked back to the car made me assume that he was covering something up. Then seeing the description of the "Spaghetti monster" and looking at his appearance some more made me think that it could have been him. I guess the green ears that the victims saw were his ear muffs.

Ljqnfj7.jpg

 

So I guess that makes him one the many people involved within the child sex ring/cult. I still think that maybe Maggie's father has something to do with it, too. Argh..only one hour left for this great series, I don't want it to end!


  • 0

#39
Walker_Bait

Walker_Bait

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,342

Great episode! I remember recognizing him in the earlier episode as the guy who plays George Remus from Boardwalk Empire. I knew we'd be seeing him again.


  • 0

#40
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

Put Green Hearing Protectors and give a child a LSD/Meth cocktail- and you get Green eared Spaghetti monster. I'm having a ball on the TD IMDB Message Board. Anyone post there?


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#41
Ansceniiiic

Ansceniiiic

    Zombie Herder

  • Members
  • 9,472

A good analysis on the speculation that Marty's kids were exposed to the cult in some way.

XTl65Y0.jpg


  • 2

#42
Walker_Bait

Walker_Bait

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,342

That is amazing!


  • 0

#43
OMEN

OMEN

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 4,114
  • LocationBack in Gods Country - TEXAS
a3569a54250a0efee20c3ebc25647050_zpsbae8
  • 4


#44
OMEN

OMEN

    Survivor

  • Members
  • 4,114
  • LocationBack in Gods Country - TEXAS
By the way that's a Great Analysis. . I knew that fluorescent cross was something. Just couldn't place it. Also thought that Barbie scene was odd
  • 0


#45
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

I think after her molestation that Audrey was a threat to Maggie- in other words if you don't stop this investigation somehow, Audrey will end up as a "sacrifice" for the Yellow King.  Notice how she shows up @ the bar out of nowhere... Cohle suspects her.


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#46
BeauL83

BeauL83

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,711
  • LocationAustralia
Is it true that there will be a different cast soon?
  • 0
I Believe In Rick Grimes

#47
Ansceniiiic

Ansceniiiic

    Zombie Herder

  • Members
  • 9,472

Is it true that there will be a different cast soon?

Yup. It's an anthology series. So every season will be a different storyline, cast, setting etc..


  • 0

#48
Walker_Bait

Walker_Bait

    Biter

  • Members
  • 1,342

The eighth of Season 1’s eight episodes airs Sunday, and the story of Rust, Marty, and the serial murder case that has framed a 17-year period of their lives will conclude. And so will McConaughey’s and Harrelson’s tenures on the show; next season will reboot with another arc and another cast created by Pizzolatto. (Though True Detective hasn’t been officially renewed, as you will see below, it will be.)

This interview was conducted over email — Pizzolatto’s choice — and we discussed the season so far, as well as where Episode 7 left us (so stop reading now if you’re not caught up). We also talked about charges of misogyny against the show; pay-cable’s “clear mandate” (his words) to include nudity; satanic ritual abuse; whether the show will continue to have one director for all of the episodes, as it did this season with Cary Fukunaga; and where Season 2 might go.

Very might: Pizzolatto can get vague with the best of them. Except when he’s telling you that — for sure — neither Rust nor Marty will turn out to be the killer on Sunday night. So stop it with that.

Let’s begin with the ending of Episode 7, when we see Errol, who is, or had better be, the Spaghetti Monster. How did you build to that moment, and why did you decide to end the episode on that note?

Nic Pizzolatto: Going into the final episode, I wanted to end any audience theorizing that Cohle or Hart was the killer, and also provide a concrete face to the abstract evil they’re chasing. So, wild speculations aside, we showed the killer’s face in Episode 1. Though we know that as this “third man,” whose face was scarred by his father, Errol is himself a revenant of great historical evil. There’s enough fragmentary history in Episode 7 that, like Hemingway’s iceberg, what is obscured can be discerned by what is visible. We have further context and dimension to explore with the killer, but the true questions now are whether Cohle and Hart succeed, what they will find, and whether they’ll make it out alive.

Rust and Marty seem to have found focus in their messy lives by deciding that solving this case is the thing they need to do to find both professional and personal resolution. Did you always know that the show was going to come to that?

NP: The story was entirely planned around them reuniting to try and resolve this serial murderer case. I don’t really think either man sees it as a personal resolution, because neither one believes in resolution. I believe they recognize it as their duty, and as perhaps the only thing they’re good for. In this I think they are commendable, as they each could’ve walked away from the whole thing several times in the course of the series. That said, I think it’s clear that neither man is living much of a life, and I find it touching when Cohle asks about Marty’s life — that’s something ‘95 Cohle would never do. ‘95 Cohle says, “It’s none of my business [your life].” But 2012 Cohle, there’s the sense that Marty’s his last buoy, the closest thing he has to someone who knows him. This is largely true for Hart as well. And Cohle makes clear to Marty that he wants to die and views this case as something he has to solve first, though it’s valid to interpret that perhaps a part of Cohle does not want to die, and latching onto this case again is a way for him to keep living. It’s relevant that “Angel of the Morning” is playing when they reunite.

Now I’m curious about “Angel of the Morning.” You chose it because of the song’s spirit of wistful resignation, or a particular lyric? 

NP: Well, it’s a love song about unrequited devotion with a female singer, as though vocalizing the anima they’ve mutually repressed.

Would it be correct in assuming that they’re willing to die? Marty in particular seemed to be saying goodbye to Maggie in Episode 7.

NP: I think given the amorphous nature of the evil they’re pursuing, its historical roots in culture and government, they would have to be willing to die to fully pursue their absolute justice. And they each understand this.

enhanced-15576-1394055801-17.jpg

HBO/Lacey Terrell

Did you imagine that there would be so much audience speculation that Rust or Marty was the murderer, or was that a frustrating surprise as the show has unfolded?

NP: It was a little surprising, but not frustrating at all, just part of the experience of having people connect to the show. The possibility is built into the story, as it has to be credible that the 2012 PD suspect Cohle. I just thought that such a revelation would be terrible, obvious writing. For me, the worst writing generally just “flips” things: this person’s really a traitor; it was all a dream; etc. Nothing is so ruinous as a forced “twist,” I think.

Let’s discuss satanic ritual abuse, which is the backdrop of the ‘95 sections (and is certainly mentioned a few times — the task force that looms over them, putting pressure on them to get the case solved). That was an intense, strange phenomenon of the ’80s and ’90s, and was largely debunked. But the show seems to be coming down on the side of satanic ritual abuse really existing! 

NP: The case of Hosanna Church in Tangipahoa Parish certainly seems real enough. I was there through the satanism panic that started in the mid-’80s and then resurged in the ’90s. So even as rural myth, it’s a part of the time and place. But this is a coastal Louisiana of-the-mind, as I knew it, a place which is no stranger to superstition and esoteric belief, where mysticism mingles with mainstream religion, where Voudon and Santeria are practiced along the bayous and a primitivism still maintains in many places. I grew up with adults who believed the Virgin Mary was appearing in Medjugorje, Yugoslavia. They held prayer meetings where they closed their eyes and claimed to see visions, and we were prepped for the end of the world throughout grade school. So the wild extremes of belief were always visible, and then to me it’s a short jump to a horror story. The ritual abuse in our show is the darkest side of belief, in a show where belief has been a steady underlying topic.

Did you grow up religious?

NP: I was raised in a heavily Catholic family. Early and consistent encounters with mysticism.

Have you read Remembering Satan by Lawrence Wright — which explored a problematic case of “recovered memories” and satanic rituals — and did it inform anything in True Detective?

NP: Never read it; the focus on mysticism and child abuse are both governing concerns of mine, and fit the place very well, based on my life experience.

Twin Peaks strikes me as the other vivid popular expression of ritualistic child sexual abuse — but in Twin Peaks, there was a supernatural element that put a veil over plain-old child rape and incest. I’m curious both about whether you watched Twin Peaks and thought about it at all here. And also what you’ve thought about all the internet chatter wanting True Detectiveto turn out to be a supernatural story despite showing no evidence through seven of eight episodes that it’s that at all.

NP: I watched and loved Twin Peaks when it was on, at least in that rich first arc, before Josie turned into a dresser drawer and everything went bonkers, though I wasn’t thinking about it at all. I don’t read internet chatter, but all I can offer is that to date there hasn’t been a single thing in our show that’s supernatural, so why would that suddenly manifest in the last episode? The show has a quality of mysticism, for sure, but nothing supernatural so far. I think there’s a lot of self-projection going on in certain cases; like the show has become a Rorschach test for a specific contingent of the audience in which they read their own obsessions into it. This is what it means to resonate with people, so I don’t mind it. The danger is that it’s myopic and unfairly reductive, like a literary theorist who only sees Marxism or Freudianism rather the totality of a work.

There are also those who will not be satisfied with any finale unless Rust Cohle steps out of their TVs, into their living room, and shoots them in the foot as some kind of meta-statement on magick and mass entertainment. And, you know, the technology just isn’t there. That said, I wouldn’t totally rule out the appearance of special effects…

enhanced-3470-1394056556-3.jpg

Michelle Monaghan as Maggie Hart. HBO/Michele K. Short

I saw you tweeted Willa Paskin’s Slate piece that praised the show and its portrayal of misogyny; Emily Nussbaum’s New Yorker review also looked at the show and its women, but was critical. You’ve said that True Detective’s view of women has been a result of focusing on two point-of-view characters who are men. Have you been listening to that thread of criticism? What do you think of it?

NP: Well, the show is plainly showing a vein of misogyny running through not just these men but their culture. To the idea that this is not on purpose, or that the females are one-dimensional, I’d say we’ll agree to disagree. If someone sees Maggie as merely some kind of fuming shrew, then that viewer is revealing their own prejudices, not the show’s. Given that neither of our leads has a healthy relationship with a woman, and given that we only see things in their POVs, that women are not given a full representation is correct for the story being told here.

This is a close, two-person point-of-view show, and the story is bound to those perspectives, with a few loose variations. In the structure of this telling, the other characters exist in relation to Cohle and Hart. However, if someone comes on screen for one exchange in the entire show, I believe they have dimensionality — the fact that their presence in the show exists only in relation to Cohle and Hart does not diminish their spark. Of the women Hart has affairs with, I wouldn’t expect them to be the most mature and stable of people, given his character and the difference in their ages. The gender criticism was expected, but it seems very knee-jerk in the total context of what we did here and what the show is supposed to be. It’s easy to use such a political concern as a blunt, reductive instrument to rob the material and performances of their nuances. But there was no way to tell this story, in this structure, without that being an easy mark for someone looking for something to criticize.

There’s also the issue of nudity, which has been very boob-y (and HBO-y). How did you decide what the sex scenes would look like?

NP: The staging was more or less there in the scripts, and then Cary and I worked together on the execution. But there is a clear mandate in pay-cable for a certain level of nudity. Now, you’re not going to get our two lead movie stars to go full-frontal, but we at least got Matthew’s butt in there. There’s not a great deal of nudity in the series at all, though, compared to other shows on pay-cable. I’d be happy with none. Seems to me if people want to see naked people doing it, there’s this thing called “the internet.”

The show sets up a world in which evil men conspire to do terrible things to women and children, and that less bad men are in charge of trying to stop them. (Or, as Rust would put it, the “world needs bad men — we keep the other bad men from the door.”) Seems accurate to me. Is that your worldview, or is that just the show and the characters?

NP: Well, that’s certainly the view of Cohle, but nothing in him represents my views on anything. I think True Detective is portraying a world where the weak (physically or economically) are lost, ground under by perfidious wheels that lie somewhere behind the visible, wheels powered by greed, perversity, and irrational belief systems, and these lost souls dwell on an exhausted frontier, a fractured coastline beleaguered by industrial pollution and detritus, slowly sinking into the Gulf of Mexico. There’s a sense here that the apocalypse already happened. And in places like this, where there’s little economy and inadequate education, women and children are the first to suffer, by and large. There’s a line in a Sherlock Holmes story where Holmes explains to Watson that the evils of the city pale in comparison to the horrors of the isolated countryside, where who knows what terrors exist in the lonely farmhouse, cut off from civilization and beholden to no oversight? I always sensed that.

Regarding bad men being necessary to stop the other bad men, that’s probably more true than I’d like it to be, but the point exists outside of gender: You need physically capable, courageous, and potentially violent people to deal with the violent, dangerous people.

You deleted a tweet in which you responded, obliquely, that Season 2 could be different in respect to women characters. What did you mean, why did you delete the tweet, and most of all, where do we stand on Season 2?

NP: I deleted the tweet because I didn’t want to be beholden to a promise and then change my mind. I’m writing Season 2 right now, but I don’t want to divulge any potentialities, because so much could change. I just never want to create from a place of critical placation — that’s a dead zone. So I don’t want, for instance, a gender-bias-critique to influence what I do.

enhanced-1647-1394050669-7.jpg

Nic Pizzolatto. HBO/Michele K. Short

Let’s assume there’s a second season. Since you’ve said you don’t like serial killer stories, I wonder what other sort of crimes there are that can sustain an eight- or ten-episode anthology?

NP: Oh, all kinds of conspiracies suggest themselves. Especially if, like me, you’ve been reading about the last 40 years of Southern California government.

Forget it, Nic, it’s Chinatown! I assume you won’t say more than that, but please do feel free to, of course. How long did it take for this show to come together, and given its scale and that you’re the sole writer and the bar for casting is high, does it seem like something that could happen once a year?

NP: Man… I’m tempted to utter just one word, but I can’t. I gotta stay mum on the next season till it’s more concrete.

With this season, once I started writing in earnest, it took about three and a half months to get the scripts. Episode 1 was written in mid-2010, and 2 was written in mid-2011, but I rewrote them and all eight were done by early August 2012; then we moved into pre-production from September through most of January. Then shot a full six months. Then did post from July 2013 to January 2014.

It’s very possible to do it once a year; the main thing that slowed us down was having to wait to do all of post-production until after we’d wrapped. I’d like to get two or three scripts exactly where I want them, then start getting the gears rolling in earnest. Casting is its own issue. Who we cast and what their schedule is will likely determine at least some part of scheduling, and scheduling will determine at least some part of casting.

Do you imagine working with one director again, and plot aside, can you give us any hints about a changed aesthetic?

NP: We don’t have any plans to work with one director again. It would be impossible to do this yearly as we need to be able to do post while we’re still filming, like any other show. There’s some great guys I’ve consulted, and we’re all confident we can achieve the same consistency. Going forward, I want the show’s aesthetic to remain determinedly naturalistic, with room for silences and vastness, and an emphasis on landscape and culture. And I hope a story that presents new characters in a new place with authenticity and resonance and an authorial voice consistent with this season. Dominant colors will change. South Louisiana was green and burnished gold.

And finally what should viewers be thinking about going into Sunday’s finale?

NP: Anything they want. Binary systems, maybe.

 


  • 0

#49
DaneBramage

DaneBramage

    Biter

  • Members
  • 2,097
  • Location16 National Championships NCAA Div I Football

So there we have it-  no supernatural element. I have always thought the most horrible thing was a twisted mind. These are evil people doing horrible things to the most vulnerable in their society. Good on NP for NOT going the supernatural route or the Cohle really is the killer route- both are cheap and predictable. The real question is will either survive the confrontation with these evil bastards and how many are there?


  • 0

"(When/If) You come at the King, you best not miss"- Omar Little


#50
Ansceniiiic

Ansceniiiic

    Zombie Herder

  • Members
  • 9,472

I'm not sure how everybody else felt about the finale, but I loved it. Admittedly I didn't expect both of them to survive, but it was nice for it to end on a more positive vibe and to see Rust go from a nihilistic pessimist to looking at things on a more lighter note. I'm actually glad that we didn't get all the answers to our questions and Nic Pizzolatto left some things for the viewers to ponder about..it just seemed more realistic that way because not always do we get full closure. Oh and Rust's hallucination of that vortex was pretty damn awesome, too!

 

I would say that the finale was the creepiest episode out of them all, but there have just been so damn many I can't decide. But it's definitely up there with the reveal of LeDoux and Errol's "My family has been here a long, long time" comment. I'm definitely going to miss this show. And although it isn't the end, I just don't think anything will ever top McConaughey and Harrelson's performance..Oscar winning stuff right there!

 

My favourite moments of the show.

 


  • 1




Welcome to RoamersAndLurkers.com, the largest walking dead forum and discussion board online. If you are a fan of AMC's The Walking Dead or Robert Kirkman's The Walking Dead Comic Book, we invite you to peruse and enjoy our discussion board, and don't be afraid of joining in!