Season 4 Review (First 8 Episodes)

* * * * * 1 Season 4 Season 3

Season 4 Review (77 )

What's Your Opinion On Season 4 So Far?

  1. Excellent (33 [42.86%] - )

    42.86%

  2. Good - Some Critiques (36 [46.75%] - )

    46.75%

  3. Fair - Not What I Expected (6 [7.79%] - )

    7.79%

  4. Poor (2 [2.60%] - )

    2.60%

Season 4 vs Season 3.....?

  1. Season 4 Is Better (68 [88.31%] - )

    88.31%

  2. I Like Them Both Equally (7 [9.09%] - )

    9.09%

  3. Season 3 Is Better (2 [2.60%] - )

    2.60%

#1
Joseph

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I wanted to know what people's opinions of season 4 are!

Here's Mine:

- 8 Brilliant episodes, I think every episode has great.

- The writing has been a lot better, the dialogue and interaction between characters is a lot more interesting.

- I LOVE how they brought back The Governor, Live Bait & Dead Weight were great episodes and Too Far Gone was incredible. I don't really know what to say, but I think it was perfect the way they brought him back.

- The action/horror/zombies have been great, I loved the zombies this season, they have improved so much.

- Mid-Season Finale was maybe the episode ever of TWD!

- Scott Gimple is awesome, I hope he stays as the showrunner for a long time

- I personally really enjoyed season 3 and thought it was a great season of TV even though there were some obvious problems, it was still great BUT....... I definitely prefer season 4, it's been improved in every department and is a lot more interesting and a lot more intense overall!

Finally.....

Season 4 has been pretty much perfect to me and I don't really have any thing to complain about, the show is just a lot lot better overall.I hope people have enjoyed it, I'd be surprised if you haven't because this season has been quality!

Season 4 Rating: 9.5/10.
Top 3 episodes: 1. Too Far Gone. 2. Internment. 3. Infected.
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#2
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I've really enjoyed the season so far. There hasn't been an episode I've disliked yet. Dead Weight came the closest, but I've warmed up to it after a few viewings.
I wish the prison attack played out a tad differently, but oh well.

As a whole, though, this half season has been fantastic

Oh and for my top 3 episodes.

1. Tie between Live Bait and Too Far Gone
2. Internment
3. Isolation
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#3
kombat

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I agree it's a big improvement over S3. I think maybe they could've chopped an episode off the flu arc and added an episode to the Governor arc (I'm sure many will disagree), but overall it was a very good 8 episodes.

This has been stated before, but I'll say it again. I think this first half was Gimple trying to clean up the mess he was left with and he did a good job. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does with a clean slate in the second half. Not making any predictions on whether it will be good or not. Just saying I'm looking forward to seeing what he does.
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#4
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I agree it's a big improvement over S3. I think maybe they could've chopped an episode off the flu arc and added an episode to the Governor arc (I'm sure many will disagree), but overall it was a very good 8 episodes.


I would have loved that actually. I feel like I'm in the minority when I say this, but I loved the show's Governor. Easily prefer him to his comic counterpart now (which is funny because from the Season 3 trailer up until the S3 mid season finale, my reaction toward him was "ew no you're not the gov, go away"). To be fair, David Morrissey's acting definitely helped lol.
Another episode focused on the governor, if handled correctly, would have been awesome.
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#5
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The show has improved overall, but it's still far from what it could have (should have) been. Honestly, it felt like they were just killing time with episodes 1-7. Seems like they wanted to finish up the prison as soon as they could. I'm happy the prison story has concluded and we can hopefully get a fresh start.
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#6
JesusMonroe

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I'll put in more thoughts later but this is a shortened version

We had 4 good above average episodes. Two of these were good and the other two were fan-fucking-tastic. I will add that these four good episodes are much better than the normal "good" episodes we got in other seasons. Season 4 raised the curve is what I'm saying

We also had 4 below average episodes. Two were a little worse than "Ok" (but still better than the other "worse than ok" episodes we've gotten before) and two of them were absolutely godawful

I'll post mine later, but what do you think are the good, bad, and ugly of Season 4?
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#7
Joseph

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I didn't put this in my post but a couple I wanted to add:

- I thought the illness was really interesting, plus they didn't spend too much time or dwell on it. It was there from episode 2-5 and in episodes 2,4 and 5 it isn't touched on that much. It definitely wasn't there too long. When you really think about....

EP 1 - Introduced at the very end,
EP 2 - This was about....Lizzie,Carol,Ryan. Cell block attack. Walkers at fence & the pigs, michonne&judith, Burned bodies, Rats!
EP 3 - A bit of illness screen time but the fight between Rick,Tyreese. The huge herd, and Carol, the water pump scene..
EP 4 - Not at the prison at all, didn't really have much to do with the illness. Was all about Carol & Rick and the supply runs.
EP 5 - This was the last 'illness' episode and this episode was AWESOME plus it was all about Herschel rather than the illness.
EP 6 - Governor, no Illness.
EP 7 - Givernor, no illness.
EP 8 - Glenn & Sasha starting to recover but this episode all about the prison battle. No dwelling on the illness or anything like that..

Basically, my point is people who got 'bored' or didn't like the illness arc it doesn't really make sense to me because the illness was in the background a lot any way and the writers didn't dwell on the fact that everyone was ill.

and on The Govenor... I thought bringing him back at the end of episode 5 was epic!

Eps 6 & 7: I understand that people find the Gov boring but I don't, I think the writing, acting and everything about these 2 episodes were awesome, Breaking Bad esque to be honest and they reminded me of Clear or many other great TWD Episodes. and episode 8 was just one of the best episodes I have ever seen on tv. It was incredible. I think we also have to give Gimple some credit because he did have to take over from Mazzara's problems and he did a superb job!

So, a fair few people didn't like the illness & Governor arcs this season but I thought they were both great and I don't have any thing to complain about in season 4.
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#8
hannsg

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I voted good 8/10
great season great ideas/stories great music could have been better, some episodes where a bit boring ,
I would imagine if you sat done and watched all five and half hours on a quiet rainy Sunday afternoon you would thing it was excellent season half.


We had two main arcs

The super-FLU arc at the prison which was an excellent idea and culminated in the amazing tense 4x05("internment" IIRC)
I would have preferred if they had a better introduction episode and expanded on what they are doing at prison(security defense food routine , life) that would be boring to others thou, what happened in last 6 months and some redshirt back story before they slaughtered them all . The rescue road- mission for the drugs could also have been written better IMO
One of the main cast being killed by the FLU would have helped although I recognize they don't have that many people

The guv-ARC (The rise/return of governor) felt a little rushed, Again cumulated in the great finale where the guv rises from nothing to assault the prison with his new "army".
as an ex-soldier some of the events/tactics/tank, firearm handling in the end sequence where annoying but still excellent television.
A lot of people on net disliked the first two episodes of guv arc especially the second episode it did not rate well
I watched it a second time and thought it was better the second time I could see how it felt rushed and confusing
There was no sense how much time was passing and it was a bit rushed and motives where not explained
Maybe they could have given this arc another episode or else written it different maybe the guv running into a band of baddies instead and taken over might have better of even maybe just have the guv turn up out of the blue with a new army
might have better. It was a good arc but it could have /should have been better


Overall two A+ episodes 4x08 and 4x05 the rest I give a B- could have been better in parts especially first episode and the rise of the guv.

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#9
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I voted good with few critiques. I have been surprised a few times this season and thought that was a good thing and I am good with the character development so far and most certainly like this season better than last season. I thought Infected, Indifference, Internment and Too far Gone were really good episodes.

My critiques are known especially if you've read any of my other post. First off there is still a bit of an issue for me with the writing as I would prefer that they use common sense and work the problems around it such as locking the cell doors when sleeping, covering the shower water, giving a common flu which they would recover from more quickly rather than the most deadly Spanish Flu. These things just annoy me about the writing. I wasn't too interested in TG centric episodes and I wasn't falling for one eyed Bri's new self as evil is evil and was just a matter of time before he popped.

Overall I am happy that TG was killed off by midseason, the writers are doing a better job at handling filler episodes and are moving the plot forward. Their also leaving us with questioning a lot of the moral decisions going on in the show which has us all posting about it on the forum so that is always a good positive thing for the show. Now that the safety of the prison is over with I do look forward to how the road will be handled by each of the main characters and certainly hope that not as many of the main cast will be killed by seasons end as was last season.
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#10
meesha1971

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Good with a few critiques. A couple of big problems in the first half.

Making Carol the murderer was a really bad idea. They're basically making the same mistake they made with Andrea in season 3 - turning Carol into a plot device without any regard to plausibility or continuity. This plot arc might have worked in season 3 - it certainly would have been more plausible for Carol to do something like this coming off the events of season 2 and 8 months out on the road - but it was never going to work after the development Carol was given in season 3 as well as establishing that they had built a pretty solid community and lived in peace with nothing really bad happening for 6-7 months. There's just no plausible catalyst that would have caused Carol to change to such an extreme so abruptly.

Two stand alone governor episodes was also a really bad idea. Live Bait was a complete waste of time and added nothing to the story. They should have just done one episode about the governor and used the extra episode to add more detail to the illness arc and create a plausible scenario for the murders.

Still, in comparison to season 3, there has been a huge improvement for season 4. The problems with the governor arc were due to Gimple having to clean up the mess Mazzara left behind so, really, there has only been one major issue with Carol's characterization. Everything else has been really good. I really enjoyed the illness arc and how they addressed the problems of living in a post-apocalyptic world with limited access to medicine and close, cramped living conditions when dealing with a major illness. Internment is my favorite episode of the season.

I also liked how they used the illness arc to play into them losing the prison. They started out with around 50 people and - according to Daryl - defense and escape plans in place. With them losing 23 people because of this flu and walker attacked due to the flu, they could no longer use the defense plan because they didn't have enough people to send through the administration building and into the woods to flank the enemy. When the governor attacked, they had to use the escape plan instead - and ended up getting separated because someone drove the bus away before everyone could get on it. I can't wait to see how all this plays out in the second half of the season.
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#11
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Good with a few critiques. A couple of big problems in the first half.

Making Carol the murderer was a really bad idea. They're basically making the same mistake they made with Andrea in season 3 - turning Carol into a plot device without any regard to plausibility or continuity. This plot arc might have worked in season 3 - it certainly would have been more plausible for Carol to do something like this coming off the events of season 2 and 8 months out on the road - but it was never going to work after the development Carol was given in season 3 as well as establishing that they had built a pretty solid community and lived in peace with nothing really bad happening for 6-7 months. There's just no plausible catalyst that would have caused Carol to change to such an extreme so abruptly.

Two stand alone governor episodes was also a really bad idea. Live Bait was a complete waste of time and added nothing to the story. They should have just done one episode about the governor and used the extra episode to add more detail to the illness arc and create a plausible scenario for the murders.

Still, in comparison to season 3, there has been a huge improvement for season 4. The problems with the governor arc were due to Gimple having to clean up the mess Mazzara left behind so, really, there has only been one major issue with Carol's characterization. Everything else has been really good. I really enjoyed the illness arc and how they addressed the problems of living in a post-apocalyptic world with limited access to medicine and close, cramped living conditions when dealing with a major illness. Internment is my favorite episode of the season.

I also liked how they used the illness arc to play into them losing the prison. They started out with around 50 people and - according to Daryl - defense and escape plans in place. With them losing 23 people because of this flu and walker attacked due to the flu, they could no longer use the defense plan because they didn't have enough people to send through the administration building and into the woods to flank the enemy. When the governor attacked, they had to use the escape plan instead - and ended up getting separated because someone drove the bus away before everyone could get on it. I can't wait to see how all this plays out in the second half of the season.


It took me a bit to wrap my head around Carol's storyline, but once I did, I like that they did something so unexpected. There were a few hints that she had taken this dark turn, so it didn't come out of nowhere. Once we got to see where her head was at ("Indifference") and knowing her history it did start to make sense. She was overcompensating and never wanted to be a victim ever again and she thought that she had to shut down all her emotions to survive and make the hard decisions.
Even though we barely got to see everyone's reactions yet, I'm sure there will be more fallout from Rick's decision.

I agree with you regarding "Live Bait". Bringing us right back to the same ole Governor, just made it a filler episode.
I think they could have done an split episode showing "Brian" meeting his new family and also included the prison group reacting to Carol's banishment. Since the group is separated now, we really won't get to see how if effects the entire group dynamics.

Overall, I am loving this season compared to S3, though.
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#12
kombat

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I think they could have done an split episode showing "Brian" meeting his new family and also included the prison group reacting to Carol's banishment. Since the group is separated now, we really won't get to see how if effects the entire group dynamics.


The problem with that is the episode would be constantly time-shifting since Live Bait took place months prior to Carol's banishment.
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#13
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The problem with that is the episode would be constantly time-shifting since Live Bait took place months prior to Carol's banishment.


Shows constantly time shift in an episode all the time. Lost did it, and Revolution and Person of interest do it every episode. It doesn't have to be a problem.
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#14
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Shows constantly time shift in an episode all the time. Lost did it, and Revolution and Person of interest do it every episode. It doesn't have to be a problem.


I agree. They could have started the episode as a flashback to the Guv's breakdown after he massacred his people and worked up to the present time-line. As it was, it really wasn't that much of a time difference. It really didn't seem like he spent more than a week or two with Martinez's group.
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#15
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Shows constantly time shift in an episode all the time. Lost did it, and Revolution and Person of interest do it every episode. It doesn't have to be a problem.


You're talking about flashbacks, or at times in Lost, flashforwards. Time shifting and flashbacks are two different things. Flashbacks are to inject backstory into the current narrative. Dealing with Carol interspersed with Governor playing chess with Megan is not a flashback by definition. The stories are completely unrelated. It just doesn't work. And because they aren't related, timeshifting doesn't work either. It would only confuse the viewer.
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#16
kombat

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I agree. They could have started the episode as a flashback to the Guv's breakdown after he massacred his people and worked up to the present time-line. As it was, it really wasn't that much of a time difference. It really didn't seem like he spent more than a week or two with Martinez's group.


Veering off topic. We have 5-6 months between seasons. Brians tells Lilly he was on the road for a couple of months. I figure he was with them for a few weeks. Month, month and a half. Hard to say how long they were out on the road before Martinez finds them. I think he;s with Martinez's group for a good 2-3 months.
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#17
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Veering off topic. We have 5-6 months between seasons. Brians tells Lilly he was on the road for a couple of months. I figure he was with them for a few weeks. Month, month and a half. Hard to say how long they were out on the road before Martinez finds them. I think he;s with Martinez's group for a good 2-3 months.


I think when he told Lilly that he had been on the road a couple months that he either wasn't being honest or was in such a state that he didn't know the passage of time. Look how long his hair had grown. I think the time on his own is where the major time laspe happened.
It seemed that when he came upon the prison (the day after the fences were down) not that much time had passed since they had joined the RV group. It's hard for me to believe that he would have spent more than a few weeks there, when he already considered that it wasn't safe.
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#18
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I love the season so far, but I feel like the characters have kind of stagnated in some ways. Rick's still erratic and we haven't gotten anything different from Daryl.

On the other hand I loved The Governor episodes, but I thought Too Far Gone just had way too much in it for just 1 hour. We got all these plot things like the rats and the group getting over the sickness and then The Governor assaulting. It felt like it should have been a 90 minute episode rather than the usual 45.

But Gimple certainly isn't as wasteful as Mazzara. At least characters got to end their story arcs appropriately unlike T-Dog, Andrea and Merle. (I'd say Lori was done with her's) Dr. S got a small redshirt kind of development, but he was cool for the small amount of time he was in.

I just think that this season has way too much plot for it to chew. The whole first half was totally dedicated to destroying the prison which I felt set the character's arcs back a long time. Then again ever since we got to the Prison the story has moved along really fast.
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#19
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Veering off topic. We have 5-6 months between seasons. Brians tells Lilly he was on the road for a couple of months. I figure he was with them for a few weeks. Month, month and a half. Hard to say how long they were out on the road before Martinez finds them. I think he;s with Martinez's group for a good 2-3 months.

See, this is what always throws me off. Seemed to me that he was in Lilly's place for about three nights, then on the road for one (they have sex, van breaks down the next morning), and then with Martinez' group for about three days, tops. So, by the time we see him stumble into Lilly's place, it's been 5 and a half months or so. Probably more, but to me this show has never been good about dealing with or showing the passage of time.

But I do like this season, yeah.
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#20
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Going and back and watching Season 1 and yeah, that's the best the writing has been the whole series. Season 4 feels like a close second.

However, having said that, I'm definitely alright with Darabont being gone (if not with the way it was handled)
I forgot the zombies used weapons (well, boulders), knew how to operate door handles and occasionally broke into a light jog and climbed fences. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he had Land of the Dead/28 Days hybrid zombies by Season 4 had he stuck around. Other than that, I heard he had a couple of flashback episodes planned, one being COMPLETELY useless and unneeded (about the zombie in the tank and how he got there. Seriously, why would that be needed)
Anyway, I'm happy with where we're at with Gimple right now and it looks like it's going to keep getting better from here on.

Edit-On the Tank Zombie episode, he may have been referring to a canceled webisode plot. Not clear on that
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#21
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Going and back and watching Season 1 and yeah, that's the best the writing has been the whole series. Season 4 feels like a close second.

However, having said that, I'm definitely alright with Darabont being gone (if not with the way it was handled)
I forgot the zombies used weapons (well, boulders), knew how to operate door handles and occasionally broke into a light jog and climbed fences. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he had Land of the Dead/28 Days hybrid zombies by Season 4 had he stuck around. Other than that, I heard he had a couple of flashback episodes planned, one being COMPLETELY useless and unneeded (about the zombie in the tank and how he got there. Seriously, why would that be needed)
Anyway, I'm happy with where we're at with Gimple right now and it looks like it's going to keep getting better from here on.

Edit-On the Tank Zombie episode, he may have been referring to a canceled webisode plot. Not clear on that

The tank zombie thing was going to be a cold open IIRC
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#22
Joseph

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Gimple > Darabont!

Darabont is great but he definitely has his flaws.

Obviously so does Gimple, but even though it's pretty close I'd go with Gimple over Darabont tbh.
But obivously Darabont > Mazzara.

So yeah.... Gimple > Darabont > Mazzara.
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#23
JesusMonroe

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If Darabont had a bigger budget, he'd wipe the floor with Gimple IMO
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#24
Joseph

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If Darabont had a bigger budget, he'd wipe the floor with Gimple IMO


Hmm, maybe! but maybe not! Gimple's 2nd half of season 4 should be really really good....I hope!
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#25
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If Darabont had a bigger budget, he'd wipe the floor with Gimple IMO


Does budget affect writing? First half of S2 is pretty much widely panned for being awful. I don't know that a low budget is an excuse for bad writing.
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