[farswell7]

The episode definitely wasn't my favorite of the series, but am confused at what you guys are complaining about.

The Governor literally lost everything. Woodbury. Andrea. and then the two people he didn't kill run off on him.

What did you expect him to do afterwards? See the family and because he's "lost his humanity" go up and murder them?

I thought his dynamics with that family were interesting. He's clearly still the violent, angry man that we knew in season 3, but he's lost everything, and runs into a family, with a daughter like Penny, who can take care of him. What else would you expect him to do?

This is NOT a redemption story for the governor.

[JesusMonroe]

I'm upset to see why so many of you didn't like tonight's episode. I personally thought this was the best episode since "Clear". I get a lot of us want to see The Governor from the comics, but I personally like his character in the television series more and felt that comic Governor was more of a cartoonish villain. Television Governor still had his fair share of cartoony moments though; standing in the middle of gunfire, escaping the walkers in the warehouse, catching up with Andrea, etc. I also still strongly believe that Mazarra could have handled his character better last season, but I think that Gimple is trying to reboot his character to give him a fresher start because as I can imagine his character must be difficult to write after where he was left off. This is why we see him with his humanity again.

I bet a lot of people will disagree, but I loved tonight's episode.
P.S: I noticed there were a lot of elements from "Rise of The Governor" in this episode which I enjoyed seeing.

I'm just don't feel threatened by him. I want a good villain and he just isn't one (to me, at least). Comic Governor was cartoonish, but he was scary as hell

Spoiler

Right off the bat, he chops off Rick's hand, rapes Michonne, and makes Glenn listen.

The episode was filled with blatant foreshadowing like the Governor saying, "I'll never let anything happen to you" (Geez. I wonder what's going to happen) and it just feels pointless to me to make the Governor "normal" again so they can make him insane again (albeit, in a better way)

I understand Gimple wants to do a reboot so he has to make some characters take a few steps backwards *coughRickcough* but I don't care how much Mazarra screwed up, you need to stay true to the lore of the show. In twenty years, people won't know about the different showrunner situation. They'll just watch and realize all the inconsistencies and it won't matter to them if a new showrunner wanted to do a reboot or not

But in the end, I think the people who liked or didn't like the episode depends on the opinion of whether or not they like the Governor

[jayde]

I believe the pit that Martinez dug was made for walkers to go into and since they travel in packs herds, then the walkers are attracted by the bait (other walkers) and go inside the pit. This episode, the bait was "alive"

That's probably the point of the title but...I kind of took it to be about the Governor himself. He just seemed to wander around, didn't even bother to secure himself much from walkers; he just bypassed them/ignored them unless he absolutely had to kill them to save himself. I think the Governor himself was the "Live Bait" until the ending.

[JesusMonroe]

Ok, I can see that.....

I got a better idea. There's often a strategy in chess called the "Poison Pawn" (not sure if it's an actual strategy. I saw it on Monk last night) where you leave a pawn on the middle of the board and if your enemy captures it, they're open to checkmate. ^Jayde's idea is also possible

Better yet, why make Carol the one who makes the "hard choice" to put down two sick people in hopes of stopping an infection? I wouldn't bring this up were it not for what happened tonight with the governor.

But the governor tonight makes me see the whole Carol thing differently because it does look like the writers are pretty much applying the exact same formula to two different characters in the hopes of creating "complexity."

I'm half-expecting to see Beth set a kitten on fire and laugh about it, while using the threat of rabies as a cover.

I wasn't that bothered by the Carol thing at first because this show really needed some moral ambiguity so I was willing to let go of the character inconsistency.

I ended up really bothered by it when she showed no remorse over it

[Serenity@sea]

Better yet, why make Carol the one who makes the "hard choice" to put down two sick people in hopes of stopping an infection? I wouldn't bring this up were it not for what happened tonight with the governor.

But the governor tonight makes me see the whole Carol thing differently because it does look like the writers are pretty much applying the exact same formula to two different characters.

I'm half-expecting to see Beth set a kitten on fire pretty soon and laughing about it, while using the threat of rabies as a cover.

Actually, the more I thought about Carol's evolution, given her past abuse, it started to make sense. I thought that DominusPisces really caputred Carol's mindset here.

[Walker_Bait]

I don't understand why it was called Live Bait.....did I miss something?

When they encounter the herd, there is an advertisement sign which says "live bait" swinging by the walkers. It is right at the pivotal moment of the episode (having Meghan run into his arms) which solidifies the Governor wanting to live / fight again. He's too far gone as many are saying on here, but I still find it really interesting to see his journey.

[thechineseboy]

I think one thing that others might be missing from this episodes, if you're looking for glimpses of "The Governor" (as opposed to "Brian"), look at the expression on his face when he's bashing in David's head aftere reanimation and when he's digging David's grave. It seems as if there is almost a look of joy on his face. Even a smile.

It's subtle but there. And I think next episode is going to show even more of that since he's coming across his past again with Martinez.

Personally I was impressed that I got into this episode as much as I did. My expectations were kinda low at first but I like the direction they're taking The Governor in. I surely don't think this Good Guy Governor will last much longer than Farmer Rick did.

[JRY]

They're complaining because they writers seem to expect us to feel empathy (or something) for the governor. But that's a waste of time because some of us just want him dead for what he did last season and see him as an irredeemable SOB.

What makes you think the writers want the viewers to feel empathy for the governor? Perhaps they are just showing a human side of him. After all, he didn't get all those followers in S3 by being a monster.

I think too many people are expecting their characters to be one-dimensional.

[hannsg]

Walking dead has always been a bit inconstant in pace maybe its because epsioes are only 40 minutes long
It was OK but a bit slow I going but it down as a slow set-up epsiode
We will see how thing progress

Walking dead is one of those shows better binged watched do to inconstant pace

If the govs arc turns out to be brilliant I will review it again if it turns out to be crap then we just witnessed a boring filler episode

Its all to play for

[JRY]

As for what I thought of the episode...I miss the prison group. I

Ugh, I needed a break from the prison. Too many dumb people doing dumb things.

[I R Biter]

When they encounter the herd, there is an advertisement sign which says "live bait" swinging by the walkers. It is right at the pivotal moment of the episode (having Meghan run into his arms) which solidifies the Governor wanting to live / fight again. He's too far gone as many are saying on here, but I still find it really interesting to see his journey.

Ah, I didn't catch the sign....

[Walker_Bait]

Also, I felt throughout the episode there was a tension he was battling as if he was contemplating killing them all and stealing the daughter to replace penny.

[JRY]

I'm not. Was actually expecting it to be even worse. They devoted an entire episode to flushing the Governor's character down the toilet. He went from killing a mass of his own people in last season's finale (showing a downward turn into madness) giving us some hope that he would become more than an annoying antagonist. Tonight he was written in a manner to draw sympathy from viewers. Was disappointed to see him fetching oxygen tanks, board games, and aiding random people he just met rather than killing them and taking what he needed from them.

Once again, why do you guys want your characters to be one dimensional? Incredibly boring.

[JesusMonroe]

That is exactly what I said. They should have shown those glimpses of his former self. I could have possibly bought that he was completely beaten down, but I certainly wouldn't think that the man who thought he was entitled to take whatever he wanted by any means necessary is going to risk his life for these strangers.

If they wanted to add layers or show some more complexity, then they should have done a flashback episode. That would have been much more interesting to me, to watch him become the man he was at the end of S3.

Imagine if this episode did show the initial outbreak where Penny was still alive and the episode could end with Penny dying in the Governor's arms. Imagine how much David Morrissey could sell that scene.

A lot of missed potential in this one

[farswell7]

Also, I like the Lily character but wish she didn't have sex with the Governor. That was completely unnecessary.

Tara is so annoying. I hope she doesn't become part of Rick's group. For some reason I feel that she will.

I'm somewhat baffled at the decision to do 2 episodes in a row of just the Governor.

[bamasaintsteve]

I'm sorry but I was bored out of my mind by this episode. I almost quit watching it a few times but I made myself watch it til the end just to see if he was going to kill those people like I thought he would. I just can't make myself care about the Gov.

[RickGrimesBtch!]

What makes you think the writers want the viewers to feel empathy for the governor? Perhaps they are just showing a human side of him. After all, he didn't get all those followers in S3 by being a monster.

I think too many people are expecting their characters to be one-dimensional.

Because IMO they stripped that away from him in the S3 finale. I'm not saying that I totally hate where they are going with this storyline, but it just feels like they're going to build him up again as the immortal he's been escaping death, and drag it out too long.

And yes,

Spoiler

if they are portraying the comic Guv post-zombie world, I found him to be VERY one dimensional in the main comic.That's the Guv that makes the most sense to me

[Serenity@sea]

The episode definitely wasn't my favorite of the series, but am confused at what you guys are complaining about.

The Governor literally lost everything. Woodbury. Andrea. and then the two people he didn't kill run off on him.

What did you expect him to do afterwards? See the family and because he's "lost his humanity" go up and murder them?

I thought his dynamics with that family were interesting. He's clearly still the violent, angry man that we knew in season 3, but he's lost everything, and runs into a family, with a daughter like Penny, who can take care of him. What else would you expect him to do?

This is NOT a redemption story for the governor.

I do understand your point, but I think they took it too far by showing him being selfless. We do know that he can be charming and manipulative, but even after being completely beaten down, I can't see him going out to get oxygen for these strangers.

[Dead Gov Walking]

first post. Sup.

I don't get the hate on this episode, especially those that say the Gov is now suddenly goody man and how that doesn't make sense


"The governor is just suddenly a good guy? PFFFT BAD WRITING!"
Or, you know, maybe killing all of his people last season was just him snapping and making a rash decision. Something he recognized and that helped him put his whole Governor self in perspective. He realized he didn't like who was becoming and tried to distance himself from his Governor persona, trying to rid himself of all evidence of his past (his gun, woodbury, family photo)
"MAN WHY IS HE HELPING THESE PEOPLE LIKE HE'S SOME KINDA SAINT"
It totally has nothing to do with the fact that the kid reminds him of his daughter and everything he did (getting the game board and the oxygen tank) he did for her, to make her happy.

He's not some super awesome nice guy now. He's trying to put "The Governor" behind him, but he's obviously still there as evidenced by how he took out Old Man Walker and the walkers in the pit
Judging by how he reacts to seeing Martinez, he either see's him as a reminder of his Governor persona or he's just pissed that Martinez ditched him lol

[I R Biter]

I don't think this is supposed to be a redemption story. He seems to have just been broken and unmotivated in the beginning of the episode. Connecting with the little girl, and eventually Tara and Lilly seemed to wake him up a bit. Seems likely the title of episode 8, "Too Far Gone" indicates the crazy murderous side will wake up very soon.

[Lurwalker]

I rated it as good but should've really rated it as fair. I'm not falling for TG's crap. Apparently the common thread this year is reaching your mental unstability to just have to come back into reality.and that you are human. I get why Martinez and Schump abandoned his ass but they should've done it when he shot everyone and left his ass there. The one thing that don't fall for is one day he is having a death wish watching a walker come through a fire to eat him just to sit there and watch and wait and then the next day realize oh now I have to take care of myself. I just don't fall for it being that mental unstability is apparently on an hour to hour basis, one hour he has a death wish and the next morning he is ready to do whatever he has to survive for whatever reason. Okay so now Brian is the new Carol 2.0 and suddenly leaving his former life behind which we know won't last long. Lilly looks as though she could be Maggie's cousin. Additionally Lilly and her sister sort of remind me of Andrea and Amy and the daughter is Penny 2.0 as well. I also find it hard to believe that this little family would last 2 years and not realize that you need to shot these things in the head to stop them if the other places shot aren't working to kill it. My last critique on it is that if you have managed to last in your apt 2 years then don't leave it. Lilly and Tara's story just felt forced at the end of the story. In the end we know what is going to happen as Brian will turn back into evil Phillip.

[farswell7]

I do understand your point, but I think they took it too far by showing him being selfless. We do know that he can be charming and manipulative, but even after being completely beaten down, I can't see him going out to get oxygen for these strangers.

I think the fact that he no longer has any power or authority has changed him. Like the famous saying goes, power corrupts people. Before this he had Woodbury, shelter, and people who looked up to him. He no longer has any of that so he is going to be acting differently. He literally has nothing to lose, when before he had everything to lose which could be why he became the awful man he is. He has no one to "build an army with" and just because he's bad doesn't mean he can't show acts of selfishness/kindness. Like another poster said, The Governor is not a one-dimensional character. I think everything he did was for the little girl. We already knew he had a soft spot in his heart for Penny, thus if another girl reminds him of his daughter he is going to go out of his way to make sure she is as happy as can be. I don't think he would have gone for the oxygen tank had Lily not told him that the grandpa was the only thing that made Megan smile anymore.

[farswell7]

Also, I really don't want to sound like a snotty Walking Dead know it all, but I think we can predict this show much better than most of the "casual" fans. We know the Governor is not going to be redeemed and that he is still against the prison, not all fans know that.

My roommates were like "oh my gosh I can't believe they're making the governor a good guy," and "I bet he's going to reconcile with the people at the prison and bring the Tara/Lilly to them." Though most of the WD facebook posts are negative about this episode, there are a decent amount of "I can't believe I'm feeling sympathy for the Governor" etc etc etc.

I think we at R & L are smarter than we realize.

[slimymeteor]

I don't think the Governor necessarily "got his humanity back." But just because he lost his mind and killed all of those people after losing that war doesn't mean he is going to slaughter every next person he comes across. The Governor felt betrayed by his soldiers for their surrender at the prison war, and in his mind, he was justified in killing them. That's different than finding a family consisting of a child, two women and a dying old man, and then just slaughtering them all.

These people were wanting to help him so he accepted their help. What do you expect him to do? I don't think he was trying to be a "good guy" or get his humanity back. I think he is just doing what he needs to do to survive. There is safety in numbers, and at that moment he was safe. The little girl also triggered memories of Penny, and once that girl reminded him of his own daughter, I don't see why he would want to harm these people, even if he is crazy. Everybody likes to have a purpose, and since he has absolutely nothing else, caring for this girl that reminds him of Penny is his new purpose (which is most likely going to end badly).

I don't think we are supposed to feel empathy for the Governor, or that he is a hero. I doubt he has done a 180 because he obviously hasn't let go of his grudge against the prison, as we saw him watching it from the bushes (I don't think he's there for a truce). He still has that evil lurking under the surface. Since this is evidently a two-parter standalone about the Governor, I'm betting we'll see more of that in the next episode leading to his inevitable return to the prison.

As for the episode itself, I thought it was great. Last week's episode was more riveting, but I liked the story of this episode. I didn't mind it being a standalone as I was getting over the sickness storyline going on at the prison, so I didn't mind a little break from that. With that said, though, I'm not sure it should be two episodes in a row away from the prison group. Hopefully I enjoy this next Governor episode just as much to make it worth it, but while I did enjoy this episode, I kind of want to check back in with our people at the prison. I'll give it a chance and wait to see the episode, but my initial thought is that two episodes in a row of nothing but the Governor might be a tad much.

[JRY]

Because IMO they stripped that away from him in the S3 finale.

So what did you expect? For the Gov to blast away at that family and everyone else he meets?

I'm not saying that I totally hate where they are going with this storyline, but it just feels like they're going to build him up again as the immortal he's been escaping death, and drag it out too long.

I was disappointed as well when he was not taken out by the end of S3. But I will admit that its nice to have a story away from the prison for once.