[TheHarshTruth]

Excellent rebuttal!

In a way I wish I didn't read the comic yet. I started reading the comics after Season 2, and instantaneously became obsessed (I read over 100 issues in under 3 weeks...lol)! The comic as well as the novels are amazing, but it does make you set some sort of expectation in your head as to what you think should happen on the show (believe me some of the story lines are severely skewed). I do not want to elaborate, because I do not want to give spoilers if you haven't indulged in any of the reading material.

I occasionally over analyze an episode in comparison to the comic & novels and have to try more to separate them.

Yeah, that was exactly the reason I hadn't read them yet. And like you, I fully expect to be reading non-stop and not being able to put them down (I'm a comic book fan in general, it just happened by fate I got hooked in the series first). I've been enjoying TWD so much I'd hate to feel let down expecting something awesome from the comic storyline that doesn't surface - and at the same time by promising myself I get to read the whole kit and kaboodle when the series ends gives me something to look forward to when the TV series calls it quits...like a sweet piece of chocolate awaiting after a bitter pill. Cheers!

[Viagra Walker]

I did not think they were trying to redeem him. I just didn't find this Guv believable after everything we witnessed in S3.
This was not a man who just snapped and killed his own people. They went to great pains last season to show that he was sick and twisted and most likely insane. Here's a list (off the top of my head, I'm sure I forgot to include some details) of some of his more heinous crimes.

Killing the National Guardsmen, basically for their supplies but also because he considered them a threat.
Keeping aquarium head trophies of both walkers and men that he either killed or ordered to be killed. Totally normal.
Keeping his walker daughter and treating her as if she was still alive.
From sending Merle and his other goons out to kill Michonne, we can gather that nobody left Woodbury alive.
He had no qualms about threatening to rape someone to gain information. We also know that he would have killed Maggie and Glenn if they had not been rescued.
When he dropped the walker bomb, we learned that not only did he try to eliminate any threats, he took great pleasure in the act.
Once again we learned that when he expected Michonne to be turned over to him, he would take great pleasure in inflicting pain and torturing her.
The way he killed both Andrea and Milton showed an especially demented person.
Finally, that leads us up to the finale where he kills his own people.

So, either I'm supposed to believe that killing his own people snapped him back to sanity or a few months of being alone on the road, and seeing someone that reminded him of his daughter, caused him to regain his sanity/humanity. It's a hard pill to swallow.

The whisky made him do all those awful things, he's sober now. Seriously though, we have all known people who were pretty much a different person after a few drinks. Take away the law, where only the strong survive, an unlimited amount of liquor and free time equals some crazy shit. I do have a question: Did Penny die before Woodbury or sometime after Woodbury was established?

[gracie lou]

The whisky made him do all those awful things, he's sober now. Seriously though, we have all known people who were pretty much a different person after a few drinks. Take away the law, where only the strong survive, an unlimited amount of liquor and free time equals some crazy shit. I do have a question: Did Penny die before Woodbury or sometime after Woodbury was established?

I kind of assumed that in the TV series that she died after Woodbury was established.

[Howard Roark]

I'm thinking they may be writing his character to reflect that he ISN'T genetically psychopathic, but an all-too-common type of person whose nature is warped negatively by having had more power/authority thrust onto them than they can effectively handle. A sizeable majority of the people on this board, if put in a position of absolute power over other people, would go on to abuse said power to varying degrees. It's just human nature, coupled with the sad fact that anyone who finds themselves in a position of power also finds themselves a target of a great many ambitious psychopaths/sociopaths. The top of the social pyramid self-selects for ruthless sociopaths/psychopaths, as they are the only ones obsessed enough with attaining power and willing to do whatever it takes to get it. The violent and/or stupid ones end up in prison or dead as a result of channeling their impulses into blue-collar crime, while the intelligent/cunning ones end up run our governments and corporations. Brian Blake wasn't evil, he was just an average guy before fate made him the leader of a community in the ZA, as he himself admitted in S03 E0whateverwhocaresanymore, and as Milton also attested to. Milton told Andrea that "he wasn't always this way". Also, he just told Megan whilst pretending to be describing someone else that he had "just lost it" as leader, and caused a lot of people to wrongly lose their lives through his own actions. You'd almost think that they were actually going to try to show him reverting back to a ZA version of his old self, after having suffered a psychotic break and now being brought back around by having a family to care for again. It would have made for a fantastic plot if done skillfully, however, the flash-forward (from the perspective of the end of the last ep) of him sussing out the prison at the end of ep5, and the title of ep8 being "too far gone" doesn't suggest that he's going to stay this humble and benign for long. I'm guessing that either Megan getting killed/zombified, or his desire to protect her within the prison's walls will lead to him deciding to use violence against Team Sick Ward again, just in time for a mid-season finale cliff-hanger of course.

[slimymeteor]

Can somebody explain what the Governor should have been like with those people to make it more realistic? Sometimes bad people do good things, and vice versa. I just have a hard time understanding why the Governor's actions seemed so "out of character." Ted Bundy, on death row, worked with authorities to help catch the Green River Killer. John Wayne Gacy dressed up as a clown to entertain children at birthday parties. You could argue that such acts by evil men are "out of character" but it shows that even in real life, bad people can repress their evil and do good things. That's the thing about psychopaths; they are completely unpredictable.

I don't find it unrealistic or out of character at all with the Governor's actions in this episode. I feel like he believes all of the bad things he's done in the past were for a reason. Everything was done to protect Woodbury and the people there. Killing people like the guardsmen and attempting to kill Michonne, for example, was done because they were liabilities who could potentially threaten the safety of Woodbury. He obviously crossed the line when he slaughtered his own followers, but if you remember that scene, Philip was practically going insane. He just snapped and completely lost it at that moment, but he's had a lot of time to reflect on that all by himself. Because they've introduced a split personality gimmick for the Governor, having him adapt a new alias and deny that he was the Governor, perhaps that shows that he feels ashamed of that person and doesn't want to be him anymore.
Personally I think it's kind of a Jeckel and Hyde thing where he is trying to be a good person, but he still has that evil lurking within him that only needs a trigger to be unleashed.

I don't know if people were expecting the Governor to straight up butcher the family in the apartment as soon as he saw them, but in my opinion that'd be much more senseless. The first one he saw was a little girl that reminded him of his own child, who was the most important thing in the world to him. Why would he then want to attack them? Even if he didn't attack the little girl, why kill or harm her family? Because he did things like get that game for the girl, we know he was just wanting to make her happy, so why would it make any sense for him to hurt any of them?

I enjoyed this episode even more after a rewatch. I rate it 'Excellent'. I wasn't the biggest fan of the Governor last season because of the way he was handled but I found this episode to be an entertaining exploration of his character.

[doc dynamo]

I think Howard Roark is right: the Guv is not a psycopath.

Psycopaths feel no empathy or love, but the Guv clearly loved Penny. Psycopaths also never feel remorse, but Guv is clearly remorseful about shooting down his followers.

So he's not a psycho, he's just capable of great self delusion and of doing really evil things.

[Mr. NomNom]

I debated on posting this but I have to...I know of 2 maybe 3 episodes andrew Lincoln said would be "epic" or "best scripts he's read".....turned out to be totally bogus...I will never belive you again sir....Ever!!

Season 3 finale awful. I also don't like this gov episode.....so I hope that 3rd ep is great.

[Lurwalker]

I find him to be hit and miss on things as well and sometimes I wonder if he says these things knowing what was in the original script and/or filmed without having seen the final edited cut. Just remember he has plenty of stuff and things to do.

[Mr. NomNom]

I find him to be hit and miss on things as well and sometimes I wonder if he says these things knowing what was in the original script and/or filmed without having seen the final edited cut. Just remember he has plenty of stuff and things to do.

Haha....he should be more accurate on stuff and things.

[Dead Gov Walking]

I dunno. His opinion is still cool with me. I really liked the Season 3 finale and Live Bait is probably in my top 5 favorite episodes of the entire series.

[Mr. NomNom]

I think if that last episode was more about a man that was with a group and was attacked by walkers and he froze and watched them die...that would be a reason for him to go into a depression and walk all alone and not want to care for anyone fearing he might do the same thing again.


I am not a fan of it being about the gov...he's been crazy since we met him...killing tons of innocent people..and killed countless more in the 3rd season finale...I don't care for him nor will I for those reasons alone.

[TheHarshTruth]

Exactly the reason I ignore the actor interviews, never watch the Talking Dead, skip past the "next week on..." segments, and have refused to read the comics until the series ends.

Nothing like getting your hopes up that something awesomesauce will unfold, only to be let down.

It's much easier watching without the added expectations/pressure.

But it is difficult sometimes, seeing articles and things on Facebook and NOT clicking them, or going into the comic book store and leaving those volumes untouched. I'm having to teach myself a whole new level of self-restraint. It will pay off in the long run though I hope.

[Deadpelican]

I agree. I also think this was done to build up anticipation like JesusMonroe mentioned but I don't think they were doing this to troll, I think its just bad storytelling on their part. They chopped up story lines in S3 and its looking like they are continuing the trend in S4.

They didn't have to go this route with the governor. They should have left the serious character development to team prison, while giving an abbreviated story to the governor. Could have been told in first 20 minutes of episode six. Governor runs into a nasty group of road bandits who spare his life when he tells them about the prison. The goons show the governor their giant weapons cache, governor says "we can take the prison easy with this stuff." Then we cut back to team prison, and don't see governor again until him and his heavily armed goons show up on Rick's doorstep. Not exactly like that, but something along those lines.

[Serenity@sea]

He was definitely right about "Clear".

[PoleAxe]

I feel like you are reading way more into my post. Where did I say that people are only one dimensional and can only be portrayed as bad or good? If I think a character is beyond redemption, then I don't want to watch an episode where it feels like they are manipulating us to feel something for a character I don't care for.
I stated that he had lost everything and was trying to re-invent himself. I felt like they took it too far by making him selfless and not showing enough of what is lurking below the surface. My problem came from taking it too far in the other direction.


Exactly.

I don't see how showing the Governor sans the "White Hat" Prison Party is manipulating the audience. I liked it provided prospective and explains why Woodbury did work under the Governor. It is just very easy for writers and fans to just be satisified with a broad stroked one-dimensional characters. Gimple is pistol whipping us, at least for now, with a human character, that yes might actually cause one to look back and go, maybe I understand why Andrea wasn't so quick to freak out , and why the good folks of Woodbury ended up under his authority. If anything Gimple is filling in some of the large potholes of incredibly shitty writing the show has had for the last 3 seasons.

Seeing negative reactions to challenging story plots/elements, makes me understand why we have dumb downed TV and Movies.

"Guv can't be nice guy, makes brain HURT!" LOL

[Howard Roark]

So he's not a psycho, he's just capable of great self delusion and of doing really evil things.

Most of us are, unfortunately. Pretty much everybody has that hard-wired instinct to kill, if it means that it can save someone you love from dying. It's the taking pleasure in doing so which separates the dangerous from everyone else.

[8-Ball]

If anything Gimple is filling in some of the large potholes of incredibly shitty writing the show has had for the last 3 seasons.

season 1 was by no means any form of shit

[TheHarshTruth]

Most of us are, unfortunately. Pretty much everybody has that hard-wired instinct to kill, if it means that it can save someone you love from dying. It's the taking pleasure in doing so which separates the dangerous from everyone else.

DINGDINGDING!!! Pretty much describing the juxtaposition between the Gov and Carol right there.

[Chinghis]

They didn't have to go this route with the governor. They should have left the serious character development to team prison, while giving an abbreviated story to the governor. Could have been told in first 20 minutes of episode six. Governor runs into a nasty group of road bandits who spare his life when he tells them about the prison. The goons show the governor their giant weapons cache, governor says "we can take the prison easy with this stuff." Then we cut back to team prison, and don't see governor again until him and his heavily armed goons show up on Rick's doorstep. Not exactly like that, but something along those lines.

It's funny, but when you write it up like that, heck, I'm glad they did it the way they did. I've thought more about this episode over the last couple of days than any of the others so far this season (especially 4).

[Shambo]

I don't see how showing the Governor sans the "White Hat" Prison Party is manipulating the audience. I liked it provided prospective and explains why Woodbury did work under the Governor. It is just very easy for writers and fans to just be satisified with a broad stroked one-dimensional characters. Gimple is pistol whipping us, at least for now, with a human character, that yes might actually cause one to look back and go, maybe I understand why Andrea wasn't so quick to freak out , and why the good folks of Woodbury ended up under his authority. If anything Gimple is filling in some of the large potholes of incredibly shitty writing the show has had for the last 3 seasons.

Seeing negative reactions to challenging story plots/elements, makes me understand why we have dumb downed TV and Movies.

"Guv can't be nice guy, makes brain HURT!" LOL

I'm sorry but was this news to anybody? We already saw how easily he assimilated Tyreese and Sasha into Woodbury. We saw how two-faced he was during the beginning of Maggie's interrogation. We saw how he treated the soldier and tried to use tenderness to get him to reveal information. We saw how easily he rallied up Woodbury against Merle by using Red Scare tactics. We've seen it all. We get it. The guy is manipulative and tries to do nice deeds to gain the trust of others. This episode was not some epiphany. And it's symbolism was incredibly forced and cheesy. I really feel they should've stopped while they were ahead (Clear). That was a good episode. There was no need to mimic it. They recycled that exact formula (isolate the episode into one setting away from the previous, and temporarily shrink the main cast down for the sake of "character development"). It didn't fail because it's "The Guv". It failed because they reused that exact formula in hopes of lightning striking twice but instead we got bland results. I'm all for character development but the way they handled it was so predictable and ended up being really cheesy. And I'll say it again, I have a problem with them advertising the episode as if the Michonne/Governor rivalry was going to come full circle, but gave us something completely different. I'm resisting the urge to call it filler, I really am.

I just can't shake this feeling that I was watching Fist of the North Star this entire episode. Mute traumatized girl, mysterious guy shows up out of no where and becomes the savior and focuses on said girl, he beats up all the baddies like the invincible super hero he is...Ugh.

[Thierry88]

I read somewhere Andres Lincoln never watch the final episodes because he doesn't like to see himself on screen. (Then he would notice he always bends his arm upwards and points his Colt Python downwards when he aims for a shot.) So I guess he bases his opinion about a coming episode only what he saw from the scripts and during filming, but then he doesn't see how everything is edited.

[EvieSessions]

I read somewhere Andres Lincoln never watch the final episodes because he doesn't like to see himself on screen. (Then he would notice he always bends his arm upwards and points his Colt Python downwards when he aims for a shot.) So I guess he bases his opinion about a coming episode only what he saw from the scripts and during filming, but then he doesn't see how everything is edited.

You would think actors and actresses would watch their previous work at least once (especially in a narrative built T.V show) just to see something that maybe they could improve upon. Not saying he doesn't, but some episodes it sure doesn't seem like it with him.

[hannsg]

We have not seen the next episode yet maybe its epic
and this one was just the slow set-up

[aces07301]

Why are they dedicating episodes to this idiot. Who cares. Uggggh. He killed so many people including my fav Andrea. So angry they are including him in full length episodes.

[Dr Cank]

[excerpt] Did Penny die before Woodbury or sometime after Woodbury was established?

I have to agree with Gracie. Logically if he came to, and formed Woodbury with a group of survivors (from Atlanta per previous speech) he would have had a hard time explaining to people why he is traveling around with his walker-daughter.