The Walking Dead Season 4 Ep 6 - Live Bait

* * * * * 2 TG

What is your opinion of Ep. 6 Live Bait? (266 )

What is your opinion of Ep. 6 Live Bait?

  1. Excellent (88 [33.08%] - )

    33.08%

  2. Good - Some Critiques (68 [25.56%] - )

    25.56%

  3. Fair - Not What I Expected (69 [25.94%] - )

    25.94%

  4. Poor (41 [15.41%] - )

    15.41%

#1
Steph

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"Group members struggle to find their humanity while being constantly threatened."
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#2
Tay

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Episode was turds. The last Zombie kill by the Guvna was pretty gruesome though, and the little girl is Penny 2.0.
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#3
etphoto

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First time since I saw the first episode I changed the channel. Lame

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  • -2

#4
Jaybird

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I was pretty bored throughout most of the episode....
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#5
NAGILLUM

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I rated it "fair", not what I expected at all. It was an ok episode but it doesn't make me care about the Governor anymore than I did last season.

Scratch that. Now that I think about it this episode was pretty bad. Season 4 was going strong for it's own story, but this episode just let the moral for the rest of the Season down.

This episode is probably on par with some of the worst episodes of Season 3, such as Arrow on the Doorpost and Home.

Anyways 3/10. Another Governor-centric episode next week? I'll probably skip it and just wait for the mid-season finale. I'd rather know how Glenn and Sasha are recovering from the sickness, I'd rather know Tyreese and Daryl's reaction to what Carol did, and her banishment. But instead we have to have this again next week? :mellow:
  • 0
Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past, or the present, are certain to miss the future.

#6
JesusMonroe

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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#7
vampirebat

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I had hoped they would not have dragged the Guv storyline out, but unfortunately this episode put an end to that.
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#8
SteadyEddie

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I loved it.
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#9
UltraAmbiguousID

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I wasn't expecting a flashback, but I loved everything about it: the sense of humor, the new Penny, and the Gov's character arc. I have no clue how his new relationships are going to reflect in his interactions with Michonne and the prison group.

Oh, and I particularly love how the writers keep drawing parallels between the Gov and Rick. Both men have had sex with a woman in the company of their child and at the woman's assurance they wouldn't wake the kid up!
  • 9

#10
DukeSilver

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If there was an option for "Fair - exactly what I fucking expected" I would have picked that. I'm tempted to change my vote to poor, because this episode made me pretty angry. I knew that they were going to attempt to make the governor seem sympathetic. Fuck that. And a new love interest, on top of everything? Ugh.
  • 3

3VHWYjA.gif


#11
JesusMonroe

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Grade: F

Rating System Explained
Spoiler


I will reference the comic in this post (but I’ll be vague and won’t spoil) but I can assure you that my feelings with the comic in no way affected my feelings with this episode of the TV show

I don’t think it’s a secret that I’m not a fan of the Governor. It’s not really because he’s different from the Comic Governor (nice touch giving him the name Brian, Gimple), but he’s just a general embarrassment of a villain, especially compared to other great TV villains we’ve had in the past 5 years alone

And to be fair, David Morrissey is a fine actor. I just don’t know if anyone could convincingly say the lines he’s given or do the ridiculous crap he’s asked to do

So, of course when I heard there was going to be an episode with just the Governor, I was skeptical. I said last week:

This episode can go either way if it focuses on the Governor

Good: It explores the Governor's backstory pre-apocalypse and maybe before he found Woodbury, explaining the origin of the book with the tally marks, and maybe showing Penny's death. This will show how the Governor became who he is. It would be similar to Breaking Bad's "Hermanos" that added a new dimension to Gustavo Fring

Bad: It shows what the Governor has done since he left and it's just him wandering in the woods with Shump...


Now, I’m not an expert on TV, but don’t you guys think this episode could be a little more interesting if it followed my idea for a “Good” episode. I’m not saying that if they followed the “Bad” aspect, it had to be bad, but considering the entirety of this episode was a colossal failure, I think they could’ve given him more depth

I don’t think this episode is filler in the conventional sense, but I certainly want to say it was. Why? Because what the Governor has been doing this entire time doesn’t matter. If this episode didn’t exist, the Governor would’ve just shown up at the prison with his ragtag group of misfits and people would’ve said, “Oh. He found a new group. Alright. Let’s see how the Governor attacking is going to affect the story and the characters.” Wasting screen time showing what the Governor has been up to when it doesn’t matter in the long run and “characterizing” the family he’s with is so pointless since they’re all going to be dead by the end of the season (and if the family joins Rick’s group, then I’m going to loathe every scene Tara is in)

It feels like Season 3, which just kept focusing on Woodbury. Like honestly, who gives a crap about the people in Woodbury. In the comics, Woodbury was a plot device. In the comics, the Governor was an effective villain. People can argue all day on how the TV Governor is three-dimensional and how the comic Governor was cartoony, but it doesn’t matter in the end because the TV show failed on the Governor where the comic succeeded. The Comic Governor was dangerous. Every scene he was in was a powder keg. The TV Governor is laughable and doesn’t even feel like a villain, just a douchebag. You really had a feeling that the Governor was true scum of the Earth and it paralleled exactly how the world changed people and the Governor was a worst-case scenario. I don’t feel that way with TV Governor and you could say that’s because he’s supposed to “realistic” and “relatable” but he’s not. He’s still a psycho with a bunch of human heads that he likes to stare at in fish tanks. He’s still an invincible superhero. That’s why it doesn’t matter in the end who’s “three-dimensional” and who isn’t. Also, I don’t care what anyone says, TV Governor never had a “decline into madness.” The first episode we saw him, he was staring at severed heads. The end of Season 3 was just him unmasking himself

And there was another major problem I had with this episode. The end of Season 3 left questions on where we’d go with the Governor. He wasn’t hiding who he is anymore and that could’ve made for a really cool villain, but now in this episode, he’s hiding who he is! Now, I understand the necessity of him not “exposing” himself to the family but it’s still boring to watch (and don’t bother accusing me of not liking this episode because there wasn’t any action or “I’m dumb and don’t understand character development”)

So, instead of exploring the Governor’s character, we watch him walk around, not say stuff, talk to bad actors, and do stupid errands. Yeah, yeah I get it. The little girl reminds him of his daughter (and they felt the need to actually point this out). Last I checked, he didn’t have a weakness for kids when he was gunning for the prison, knowing there was a child and baby in there

I mentioned this before but something I really don’t like about Gimple is his transparent symbolism. From Carol stabbing the walker that fell down the stairs two episodes ago to the chess game this week (the girl even drew an eye patch on the king). The Governor burning the photo is him “burning away his old self.” Yeah. I get it. Thank you. I can’t help but roll my eyes. I’m fine with symbolism but make it subtle

So, the Dad dies as the episode telegraphed many times (but to be fair, I think it was meant to be obvious and they were trying to go for a “the terror is from the inevitability” vibe) and the Governor smashes his head with an oxygen tank and if I’m going to be honest, I laughed. And from that moment on, I kept laughing. I didn’t think this is how it would all go down but by the end I was laughing so hard I couldn’t breathe and any shred I had of still treating this show seriously disappeared. I was laughing when the Governor and Lily made love (“I know this is out of nowhere considering I just saw you bash a man’s head in with an oxygen tank, but I think I’m in love), and NOBODY running towards the girl and picking her up while she was just standing there, but instead waiting for her to run to him

And then the narrative convenience to end all narrative conveniences, Martinez reunites with the Governor

Edit: I just want to add that I really don't even see why the Governor is a good enough villain to keep around for multiple seasons in the first place. A good villain justifies multiple seasons. Multiple seasons doesn't make a good villain

And next week's episode is ANOTHER Governor episode? Dear, lord...

TL;DR: This episode sucked

Stray Observations:

-The Governor dealt with a large clumped up group of zombies with just a shovel and now he can’t do anything about fewer zombies that are spread out with a gun and several oxygen tanks

-I’m not sure if this episode is better or worse than Prey and Chupacabra (both worthy of strong D-’s) but considering Season 4 slightly raised the curve, this episode deserves the F

-Comic Spoilers
Spoiler

  • 4

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#12
JesusMonroe

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If there was an option for "Fair - exactly what I fucking expected" I would have picked that. I'm tempted to change my vote to poor, because this episode made me pretty angry. I knew that they were going to attempt to make the governor seem sympathetic. Fuck that. And a new love interest, on top of everything? Ugh.

I was going to call this episode a "disappointment" but that would imply I had expectations
  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#13
JesusMonroe

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I was pretty bored throughout most of the episode....

I didn't have a heartbeat at the beginning of the episode and I somehow got more bored
  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#14
ZedHead

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I missed the first few minutes of the episode, few q's
1) who was the governor talking to? Carol? Was it all a flashback?
2)did Martinez and shumpert just leave the camp one day?

I saw this part, but why did TG and the ladies even leave the apartments? It seemed fairly safe. Finally, was anyone else like "eww please don't do it in the van with a child right next to you" at the end?
  • 4

#15
ll wrath ll

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Grade: F

Rating System Explained

Spoiler


I will reference the comic in this post (but I’ll be vague and won’t spoil) but I can assure you that my feelings with the comic in no way affected my feelings with this episode of the TV show

I don’t think it’s a secret that I’m not a fan of the Governor. It’s not really because he’s different from the Comic Governor (nice touch giving him the name Brian, Gimple), but he’s just a general embarrassment of a villain, especially compared to other great TV villains we’ve had in the past 5 years alone

And to be fair, David Morrissey is a fine actor. I just don’t know if anyone could convincingly say the lines he’s given or do the ridiculous crap he’s asked to do

So, of course when I heard there was going to be an episode with just the Governor, I was skeptical. I said last week:


Now, I’m not an expert on TV, but don’t you guys think this episode could be a little more interesting if it followed my idea for a “Good” episode. I’m not saying that if they followed the “Bad” aspect, it had to be bad, but considering the entirety of this episode was a colossal failure, I think they could’ve given him more depth

I don’t think this episode is filler in the conventional sense, but I certainly want to say it was. Why? Because what the Governor has been doing this entire time doesn’t matter. If this episode didn’t exist, the Governor would’ve just shown up at the prison with his ragtag group of misfits and people would’ve said, “Oh. He found a new group. Alright. Let’s see how the Governor attacking is going to affect the story and the characters.” Wasting screen time showing what the Governor has been up to when it doesn’t matter in the long run and “characterizing” the family he’s with is so pointless since they’re all going to be dead by the end of the season (and if the family joins Rick’s group, then I’m going to loathe every scene Tara is in)

It feels like Season 3, which just kept focusing on Woodbury. Like honestly, who gives a crap about the people in Woodbury. In the comics, Woodbury was a plot device. In the comics, the Governor was an effective villain. People can argue all day on how the TV Governor is three-dimensional and how the comic Governor was cartoony, but it doesn’t matter in the end because the TV show failed on the Governor where the comic succeeded. The Comic Governor was dangerous. Every scene he was in was a powder keg. The TV Governor is laughable and doesn’t even feel like a villain, just a douchebag. You really had a feeling that the Governor was true scum of the Earth and it paralleled exactly how the world changed people and the Governor was a worst-case scenario. I don’t feel that way with TV Governor and you could say that’s because he’s supposed to “realistic” and “relatable” but he’s not. He’s still a psycho with a bunch of human heads that he likes to stare at in fish tanks. He’s still an invincible superhero. That’s why it doesn’t matter in the end who’s “three-dimensional” and who isn’t. Also, I don’t care what anyone says, TV Governor never had a “decline into madness.” The first episode we saw him, he was staring at severed heads. The end of Season 3 was just him unmasking himself

And there was another major problem I had with this episode. The end of Season 3 left questions on where we’d go with the Governor. He wasn’t hiding who he is anymore and that could’ve made for a really cool villain, but now in this episode, he’s hiding who he is! Now, I understand the necessity of him not “exposing” himself to the family but it’s still boring to watch (and don’t bother accusing me of not liking this episode because there wasn’t any action or “I’m dumb and don’t understand character development”)

So, instead of exploring the Governor’s character, we watch him walk around, not say stuff, talk to bad actors, and do stupid errands. Yeah, yeah I get it. The little girl reminds him of his daughter (and they felt the need to actually point this out). Last I checked, he didn’t have a weakness for kids when he was gunning for the prison, knowing there was a child and baby in there

I mentioned this before but something I really don’t like about Gimple is his transparent symbolism. From Carol stabbing the walker that fell down the stairs two episodes ago to the chess game this week (the girl even drew an eye patch on the king). The Governor burning the photo is him “burning away his old self.” Yeah. I get it. Thank you. I can’t help but roll my eyes. I’m fine with symbolism but make it subtle

So, the Dad dies as the episode telegraphed many times (but to be fair, I think it was meant to be obvious and they were trying to go for a “the terror is from the inevitability” vibe) and the Governor smashes his head with an oxygen tank and if I’m going to be honest, I laughed. And from that moment on, I kept laughing. I didn’t think this is how it would all go down but by the end I was laughing so hard I couldn’t breathe and any shred I had of still treating this show seriously disappeared. I was laughing when the Governor and Lily made love (“I know this is out of nowhere considering I just saw you bash a man’s head in with an oxygen tank, but I think I’m in love), and NOBODY running towards the girl and picking her up while she was just standing there, but instead waiting for her to run to him

And then the narrative convenience to end all narrative conveniences, Martinez reunites with the Governor

TL;DR: This episode sucked

Stray Observations:

-The Governor dealt with a large clumped up group of zombies with just a shovel and now he can’t do anything about fewer zombies that are spread out with a gun and several oxygen tanks

-I’m not sure if this episode is better or worse than Prey and Chupacabra (both worthy of strong D-’s) but considering Season 4 slightly raised the curve, this episode deserves the F

-Comic Spoilers
Spoiler



Dear god, that bad? gonna have to wait awhile to watch it but seriously? that awful?
  • 0
Suspension of Disbelief is a method of storytelling lazy and/or bad writers use. In reality there is no such thing, it's just fully recognized ignorance. Good authors don't need to use this. When you use an overwhelming amount of SOD in zombie fiction, all you are doing is making your readers into zombies.

#16
Serenity@sea

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I missed the first few minutes of the episode, few q's
1) who was the governor talking to? Carol? Was it all a flashback?
2)did Martinez and shumpert just leave the camp one day?

I saw this part, but why did TG and the ladies even leave the apartments? It seemed fairly safe. Finally, was anyone else like "eww please don't do it in the van with a child right next to you" at the end?


1) He was talking to Lily and Tara. I thought we would see the end of the conversation later in the show, but we never did.
2) Yes, it appeared they were fed up with the Guv.

As for your last question. Yes! A big fat juicy EWWWW.
  • 1

#17
Kikora

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I found the episode as a standalone to be very gripping, interesting, and full of touching and deep moments. Had the main been anyone other than the Governor, I would easily say this is my favorite episode this season, despite the writers delaying the Daryl confrontation for yet another week.

My biggest gripe is that the finale from last season killed the Governor's character and this restart really isn't following in line with what we had known about him before. The man from season 3 was a machine, he had almost no social ties, no sense of devotion outside of Penny, and could mow through a herd of walkers with just a blade in his hand and a goal in mind. We last saw him gunning down his own people for fleeing, for goodness sake, and him just running away after that is something that I really cannot get over.

I understand that Gimple was given a very hard sell with this character because of the way they ended him last season. They had to find a way to explain why someone with such a single-minded obsession with vengeance would suddenly just vanish. It made no sense. Emotionally breaking him was the only logical way to bring him back and not completely spit in the faces of the fans, but I feel they pushed him too far. I would have liked to have seen some hint of his anger, of his need for control and dominance, some semblance of who he was in who he became. As it is now, I can't even relate this 'Brian' to the Governor, at least not in this order. Brian could become the Governor, but the Governor can't just become Brian, not without a lot more personal growth than, 'My mission failed and my friends abandoned me. :< '

PS: Sex in front of a kid is not cool. PPS: Writers - you can show an emotional connection between a man and a woman without there being completely spontaneous and inappropriately timed sex.
  • 9

#18
Howard Roark

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I thought the "look how his life sucks nowadays" musical montage at the beginning was very cornball, waaaaaaaaay too on-the-nose. I enjoyed everything else though. It's always to a show's credit when the writers can surprise you, and what looks to be developing is the last place I thought they were going to go with him. I also liked how they milked the tension when it looked like he was going to try to use his secret gun to get the jump on her and seize the cadet's weapon. Looks like he's sticking around for a while now though doesn't it? Not necessarily a bad thing.
  • -1

#19
Lioness

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I haven't voted yet. I am still mulling over what I thought about the episode. It is certainly not what I expected, but I don't think it was poor. I guess, I am a little confused about who TG is supposed to be. Is he a bad guy gone good? Is he a good guy gone bad and then gone good again? Or is he really bad but he is as confused as I am and just thinks he is good at the moment?

One thing, what are the odds that he would come across a Penny lookalike who is conveniently living with two hot women who welcome him into their home with pretty much no questions asked?
  • 1
Putting out fire with gasoline.

#20
Dr.ChimRitchels

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Slow episode, but I enjoyed it. Once I realized the storyline was basically ripped from "The Rise of the Governor", I sorta knew what to expect- minus the shiny new Penny, of course. Interested to see where that's going...
The Shaggy Guv reminded me of Will Ferrel's nude model character, on SNL- "(wink!)"
Favorite scene: The Governor waking up from his tent to find he'd been ditched by Martinez, and Shumpert. (cue the sad trombone: waaah, waaaaaaaah...)

  • 0

#21
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If there was an option for "Fair - exactly what I fucking expected" I would have picked that. I'm tempted to change my vote to poor, because this episode made me pretty angry. I knew that they were going to attempt to make the governor seem sympathetic. Fuck that. And a new love interest, on top of everything? Ugh.


I hadn't read any spoilers, so I was under the impression that it would be a flashback episode. Even without including that disappointment, I still did not care for sympathetic Guv at all. Meh!

I think the only reason that Andrew said that this was one of the best episodes was because he got a week off. :P
  • 1

#22
Deadpelican

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Didn't like it and don't like the fact that it's part of a larger pattern.

It seems they are trying to create character complexity, but they are doing it with paint-by-numbers formula which is:

A. Show a character doing things that are noble, heroic etc.
B. Show the same character doing things that are ethically questionable or even downright ruthless.

Carol is a strong, motherly caring type who kills sick people.

Governor is a psychopath who slaughters people, but he also saves little girls and risks his life to secure oxygen tanks for old men.

Complexity is good, but not when it follows a simplistic, predictable formula.

Don't like it.
  • 4

Shield yourself from those not bound to you by steel, for they are the blind. Aid them when you can, but lose not sight of yourself. 


#23
ButtonsTheHorse

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"Lily"

there's a hole in my head telling me the gov's gonna
Spoiler

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#24
Kikora

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I haven't voted yet. I am still mulling over what I thought about the episode. It is certainly not what I expected, but I don't think it was poor. I guess, I am a little confused about who TG is supposed to be. Is he a bad guy gone good? Is he a good guy gone bad and then gone good again? Or is he really bad but he is as confused as I am and just thinks he is good at the moment?


Eeehhh, season 4 seems to be all about finding or losing yourself, so I guess it fits into the overall theme? I just don't much like the evolution of his character because his actions and motivations don't match.
  • 0

#25
ZedHead

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Was is just me, but did at one lady look like maggie?
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