Issue 116 Review

- - - - - all out war Rick Negan Holly

#51
I_Follow_You_Axel

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Porkie, are you a former member of Sal's Pals?
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#52
gracie lou

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I was thinking something more along the lines of this:


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#53
theblackboxlies

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hahah!
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#54
Macek11

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I was thinking something more along the lines of this:



Hahah special edition!
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#55
BeardedOne

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Why the fuck they haven't just shot Negan in the g'damn face already is beyond me. Seems silly. The "talking" time ended how many issues ago?

Now it's time to shoot, not talk.

All the noise they created should lead to some interesting developments in future issues though, so we got that goin' for us, which is nice.
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#56
chipsmcghee

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Why the fuck they haven't just shot Negan in the g'damn face already is beyond me. Seems silly. The "talking" time ended how many issues ago?

Now it's time to shoot, not talk.

All the noise they created should lead to some interesting developments in future issues though, so we got that goin' for us, which is nice.


From a moral standpoint I agree. I want Negan to die, now! From a story standpoint I don't think it would help the title very much if Negan took one between the eyes while he was talking on the balcony. The sudden and absolute death of Negan would be pretty anticlimactic but I promise you I strongly identify with your frustration on why Negan can give a speech on a balcony and not one person tries to take him out. Why oh why did Rick let Andrea stay home, she would have come in handy on that.
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#57
gracie lou

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From a moral standpoint I agree. I want Negan to die, now! From a story standpoint I don't think it would help the title very much if Negan took one between the eyes while he was talking on the balcony. The sudden and absolute death of Negan would be pretty anticlimactic but I promise you I strongly identify with your frustration on why Negan can give a speech on a balcony and not one person tries to take him out. Why oh why did Rick let Andrea stay home, she would have come in handy on that.


Yeah, I'm wondering if that's half the reason that Kirkman had Andrea beat up so bad, so Rick had another reason to leave her back in the ASZ. I'm glad for it, though. Gives other characters a chance to step up (and make rash decisions, and get captured :P).
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#58
BeardedOne

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What is up with that chick anyway?

Both Holly AND Rick doing the "No, you can't, I'LL go!!!" at the end of the issue seemed kind of cheesy.

Never been much of a fan of hers anyway.
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#59
ZombieTribble

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Alright, here are some thoughts about the issue. It may be that I am way off the mark, but here goes -

The most likely explanation for Rick driving the truck appears to me as follows: He was counting (as stated) on being captured alive by Negan, and was going to work with Dwight to bring the residents of the Saviors complex over to their side. Presumably their moment would have come as Negan and his men deal with the horde of walkers (which we'd expect them to be capable of).

Supporting evidence:
1) We know there are many women and children in the Saviors compound. Everyone who is still alive in the ZA has got to be something of a cold SOB, but I'm not sure that the alliance would really plan to have them all wiped out by roamers - at least not unless there might be another chance. Remember Rick's words about building civilization and having more people on board is better (prior to the Saviors arc)? I expect he'd like to find a solution to bring them on board. Also, assuming that Dwight *is* on board with the plan, he obviously wouldn't be happy with an action where the group is wiped out.
2) The long speech with Negan appeared to be designed to send a message to the people inside the Saviors compound: we are not at war with you. Since Negan was never going to go along with it, what was the point if Rick and his group were planning on wiping everyone else out anyway?

Now, clearly there are a lot of risks associated with the plan - Rick might be killed by Negan, Dwight may in fact be Negan's man through and through, and the walkers may turn out to be too much for the Saviors to deal with. But in Rick's mind, these risks would be worth taking - because the rewards would be great, and the rest of the survivors would still be better off.

If the theory is correct, it also answers all the questions of 'why not just try to shoot negan?', 'why on earth would Rick "sacrifice" himself?', 'why would they think that the walkers alone would do the trick' etc.

Of course, if so, the plan has just gone to the dogs. Who here believes that Holly is going to work with Dwight. Even if she did have an idea that he was potentially on their side - which undoubtedly she does not, he is still the man who killed Abraham. This may be what Rick meant when he said 'this is only the beginning' - if everything had gone as planned, the war might have been won in one fell swoop, but now they have to be in it for the long haul.

Thoughts?
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#60
Chryz707

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In my opinion, Rick might have made another mistake by not finishing the job. The Saviors compound might be overrun with zombies soon, doing that puts the saviors at a possible advantage since they are such good zombie killers. I think Rick and the rest of his crew are going to face an insurgency with guerilla war tactics! I think the Saviors just might have the upper hand very shortly.
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#61
mADAM Scorpious

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Well I totally took the preview out of context. I'm glad holly forcibly took ricks place on the suicide mission. Maybe there's hope for her yet, although, now that she's gone and done something likable she'll probably die.
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#62
JesusMonroe

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Well I totally took the preview out of context. I'm glad holly forcibly took ricks place on the suicide mission. Maybe there's hope for her yet, although, now that she's gone and done something likable she'll probably die.

She won't die just because she's becoming likable. This isn't the TV show
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#63
gracie lou

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Alright, here are some thoughts about the issue. It may be that I am way off the mark, but here goes -

The most likely explanation for Rick driving the truck appears to me as follows: He was counting (as stated) on being captured alive by Negan, and was going to work with Dwight to bring the residents of the Saviors complex over to their side. Presumably their moment would have come as Negan and his men deal with the horde of walkers (which we'd expect them to be capable of).

Supporting evidence:
1) We know there are many women and children in the Saviors compound. Everyone who is still alive in the ZA has got to be something of a cold SOB, but I'm not sure that the alliance would really plan to have them all wiped out by roamers - at least not unless there might be another chance. Remember Rick's words about building civilization and having more people on board is better (prior to the Saviors arc)? I expect he'd like to find a solution to bring them on board. Also, assuming that Dwight *is* on board with the plan, he obviously wouldn't be happy with an action where the group is wiped out.
2) The long speech with Negan appeared to be designed to send a message to the people inside the Saviors compound: we are not at war with you. Since Negan was never going to go along with it, what was the point if Rick and his group were planning on wiping everyone else out anyway?

Now, clearly there are a lot of risks associated with the plan - Rick might be killed by Negan, Dwight may in fact be Negan's man through and through, and the walkers may turn out to be too much for the Saviors to deal with. But in Rick's mind, these risks would be worth taking - because the rewards would be great, and the rest of the survivors would still be better off.

If the theory is correct, it also answers all the questions of 'why not just try to shoot negan?', 'why on earth would Rick "sacrifice" himself?', 'why would they think that the walkers alone would do the trick' etc.

Of course, if so, the plan has just gone to the dogs. Who here believes that Holly is going to work with Dwight. Even if she did have an idea that he was potentially on their side - which undoubtedly she does not, he is still the man who killed Abraham. This may be what Rick meant when he said 'this is only the beginning' - if everything had gone as planned, the war might have been won in one fell swoop, but now they have to be in it for the long haul.

Thoughts?


Dunno, I think you kinda nailed it. Nice first post.
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#64
I_Follow_You_Axel

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Alright, here are some thoughts about the issue. It may be that I am way off the mark, but here goes -

The most likely explanation for Rick driving the truck appears to me as follows: He was counting (as stated) on being captured alive by Negan, and was going to work with Dwight to bring the residents of the Saviors complex over to their side. Presumably their moment would have come as Negan and his men deal with the horde of walkers (which we'd expect them to be capable of).

Supporting evidence:
1) We know there are many women and children in the Saviors compound. Everyone who is still alive in the ZA has got to be something of a cold SOB, but I'm not sure that the alliance would really plan to have them all wiped out by roamers - at least not unless there might be another chance. Remember Rick's words about building civilization and having more people on board is better (prior to the Saviors arc)? I expect he'd like to find a solution to bring them on board. Also, assuming that Dwight *is* on board with the plan, he obviously wouldn't be happy with an action where the group is wiped out.
2) The long speech with Negan appeared to be designed to send a message to the people inside the Saviors compound: we are not at war with you. Since Negan was never going to go along with it, what was the point if Rick and his group were planning on wiping everyone else out anyway?

Now, clearly there are a lot of risks associated with the plan - Rick might be killed by Negan, Dwight may in fact be Negan's man through and through, and the walkers may turn out to be too much for the Saviors to deal with. But in Rick's mind, these risks would be worth taking - because the rewards would be great, and the rest of the survivors would still be better off.

If the theory is correct, it also answers all the questions of 'why not just try to shoot negan?', 'why on earth would Rick "sacrifice" himself?', 'why would they think that the walkers alone would do the trick' etc.

Of course, if so, the plan has just gone to the dogs. Who here believes that Holly is going to work with Dwight. Even if she did have an idea that he was potentially on their side - which undoubtedly she does not, he is still the man who killed Abraham. This may be what Rick meant when he said 'this is only the beginning' - if everything had gone as planned, the war might have been won in one fell swoop, but now they have to be in it for the long haul.

Thoughts?


Nice theory! Rick trying to bring the Saviors down from the inside seems to be the only logical explanation as to why Rick would want to be captured. Again, Rick is under the impression that with Negan gone, the rest of his people will fall in line and work together as a larger world. I don't believe that to be the case.

I'm really not quite sure why Holly wanted to do it in his place. I know she wants revenge for Abe, but she has no plan and no way to feasibly escape the Compound with her life, even after finding Dwight.
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"I ain't walking out to the woods to get my pecker bit off by a roamer, you follow me?"
- Axel (Who else, really?)

#65
gracie lou

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Nice theory! Rick trying to bring the Saviors down from the inside seems to be the only logical explanation as to why Rick would want to be captured. Again, Rick is under the impression that with Negan gone, the rest of his people will fall in line and work together as a larger world. I don't believe that to be the case.

I'm really not quite sure why Holly wanted to do it in his place. I know she wants revenge for Abe, but she has no plan and no way to feasibly escape the Compound with her life, even after finding Dwight.


I kind of think that Holly felt Rick was more valuable to the group. Plus, it was a pretty rash decision - probably not much thought really went into making it.
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#66
I_Follow_You_Axel

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I kind of think that Holly felt Rick was more valuable to the group. Plus, it was a pretty rash decision - probably not much thought really went into making it.


She said that Abe's killer is still in there, so I assumed she wants revenge. I'll have to read it again. Either way, I agree that it was a rash decision.
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"I ain't walking out to the woods to get my pecker bit off by a roamer, you follow me?"
- Axel (Who else, really?)

#67
gracie lou

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She said that Abe's killer is still in there, so I assumed she wants revenge. I'll have to read it again. Either way, I agree that it was a rash decision.


Well, yeah, definitely that. :D
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#68
ZombieTribble

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Dunno, I think you kinda nailed it. Nice first post.


Thanks!
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#69
ZombieTribble

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I'm really not quite sure why Holly wanted to do it in his place. I know she wants revenge for Abe, but she has no plan and no way to feasibly escape the Compound with her life, even after finding Dwight.


I'm guessing she doesn't care that much about escaping with her life ...
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#70
Sgthewolverine

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Yeah, I'm wondering if that's half the reason that Kirkman had Andrea beat up so bad, so Rick had another reason to leave her back in the ASZ. I'm glad for it, though. Gives other characters a chance to step up (and make rash decisions, and get captured :P).

yep you nailed it. All plot service...and proof kirkman does think about who he is going to kill...sometimes
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#71
Sgthewolverine

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I'm guessing she doesn't care that much about escaping with her life ...

I keep saying it...looking for her sister!
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#72
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I keep saying it...looking for her sister!


No, i keep saying it. I came up with that theory. I have evidence, man.

http://www.roamersan...w/page__st__100

DONT YOU DARE CLAIM MY THEORY, WOLVERINEEEEEE.

*unsheaths sword out of fucking nowhere.*

IF YOU DO, WE WILL HAVE TO DUEL TO THE DEATH, LIKE THE DAYS OF OLD.

(We Swedes are very sensitive about our theories, and people claiming them. Nothing personal, 'course. )
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bd629b0375becac7160e1d2f9cb1fae26e9b1917


#73
hotdogabel

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Great issue! Felt short because there was more action than dialogue.
Where did the abondoning hill toppers go ? It looks like they head towards sanctuary. Did they really leave or did they join Gregory and Negan?
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#74
gracie lou

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I assumed they just headed home. Doubt Rick would have been so understanding if they headed over to Negan's side. Heh.
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#75
Route234

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Why not drive the truck threw the gate and then stop and go in reverse and leave? It also seems like Negan's timing with Gregory was pretty good there. What did he do? Just keep the guy around in case everyone decided to show up on his doorstep? That whole thing seemed really odd.
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