Should They Execute The Body Burner?

- - - - - bodies burned infection

#151
Thierry88

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Executing her is just as wrong as killing Karen and David. She did it because she feared they might caused further spreading of the infection through the prison. If Rick had executed her, he did it because he feared she was going to kill more persons if she thought she needs to, or her presence would stir things even more up, the same reasons he exiled her.
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#152
d2daybreak

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Then let's suppose that Rick had followed through with his plan to deliver Michonne to the Gov. (And by this time, by his own mouth Rick has confirmed, "she is one of us." She is an ally; a friend; a member of the group.) Wouldn't he be complicit in her torture and death? Where's the indignation about his behavior?


There is not indignation about Rick's thinking to deliver Michonne over to TG because I do not equate thinking about or being tempted to do something with actually doing it. If Carol had only thought about killing Karen and David there wouldn't be any indignation for her either. However, Carol didn't just think about it. Did she? No, she killed to innocent members of her own group who were not trying to kill her. In fact, just the opposite. They willingly submitted to quarantine in an attempt to protect Carol and the others.
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#153
DominusPisces

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Then let's suppose that Rick had followed through with his plan to deliver Michonne to the Gov. (And by this time, by his own mouth Rick has confirmed, "she is one of us." She is an ally; a friend; a member of the group.) Wouldn't he be complicit in her torture and death? Where's the indignation about his behavior?


Ahh but we don't have to suppose. Do you know why? Because he didn't. He realized what he was going to do was wrong. That each of them was the greater good. Everyone seems to love doing "Well what if he DID do that horrible thing he realized was horrible before he did it, so he didn't." No one is denying that even thinking about following through with it was morally wrong, and you saw the outrage and disgust on their faces. Just like no one is denying that Carol had every right to be afraid of others getting sick. It's not about always thinking good and loving thoughts. The measure of someone's ability to be forgiven is partly how reversible their sin against you is, how honest they are about it and how contrite they are about it.

Tell me, when all was said and done, how much damage did Rick's near temptation cause? How much did individuals in the group really pay? Michonne had a scare. She lost about a Day's worth of her time, and got a nasty knock on the head. The group lost a little respect for Rick. Nothing Rick did was irreversible. Merle dying, doesn't count. HE decided to go shoot up the meeting spot rather than simply turning back to the prison.

Can we honestly say that Rick wasn't honest about the whole situation? He completely confessed what he did to EVERYONE. Also.. how contrite was he? He realized what he did was wrong and felt like he made such a monumental mistake that he had to step down as leader.

Contrast to Carol. Karen and David are still extra crispy and in the ground. Can't reverse that, now can she? How honest was she? She told Rick, but only because she honestly expected him to keep quiet about it. "No one has to know..." So clearly she can't be THAT convinced how correct her actions are, or she has NO respect for anyone else. How contrite is she? NONE. No real remorse. No real regret, and expects NO punishment for what she did.

HER sins are much greater than Rick's. Maybe I was a bit extreme with regards to executing her, but banishment IS appropriate. How do you live with someone you know will have no problem slitting your throat while you sleep if you become the 'lesser good'?
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Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray thee Lord these bites aren't deep.
Should I die before I wake, I pray thee Lord, my skull they break.


#154
Vicki48

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Ahh but we don't have to suppose. Do you know why? Because he didn't. He realized what he was going to do was wrong. That each of them was the greater good. Everyone seems to love doing "Well what if he DID do that horrible thing he realized was horrible before he did it, so he didn't." No one is denying that even thinking about following through with it was morally wrong, and you saw the outrage and disgust on their faces. Just like no one is denying that Carol had every right to be afraid of others getting sick. It's not about always thinking good and loving thoughts. The measure of someone's ability to be forgiven is partly how reversible their sin against you is, how honest they are about it and how contrite they are about it.

Tell me, when all was said and done, how much damage did Rick's near temptation cause? How much did individuals in the group really pay? Michonne had a scare. She lost about a Day's worth of her time, and got a nasty knock on the head. The group lost a little respect for Rick. Nothing Rick did was irreversible. Merle dying, doesn't count. HE decided to go shoot up the meeting spot rather than simply turning back to the prison.

Can we honestly say that Rick wasn't honest about the whole situation? He completely confessed what he did to EVERYONE. Also.. how contrite was he? He realized what he did was wrong and felt like he made such a monumental mistake that he had to step down as leader.

Contrast to Carol. Karen and David are still extra crispy and in the ground. Can't reverse that, now can she? How honest was she? She told Rick, but only because she honestly expected him to keep quiet about it. "No one has to know..." So clearly she can't be THAT convinced how correct her actions are, or she has NO respect for anyone else. How contrite is she? NONE. No real remorse. No real regret, and expects NO punishment for what she did.

HER sins are much greater than Rick's. Maybe I was a bit extreme with regards to executing her, but banishment IS appropriate. How do you live with someone you know will have no problem slitting your throat while you sleep if you become the 'lesser good'?


RIck more than thought about it; was more than tempted. He approached those most likely to support him, and then went to Merle to "carry out his garbage". Michonne had it right. At that point his concern was for himself. He didn't have the balls to take Michonne to the Gov. himself. He manipulated someone else into doing it. Does that absolve him of guilt? And yes, he had a last minute bout of conscience, but the ball was already rolling by that point and the outcome could have gone very differently.




As to Karen and David, yes they were innocent---and so was Patrick. And yes, they submitted to quarantine. How big a joke was that? Tyrese walked right through it. (So much for members of the group protecting others.) Look at the infected. How many do you think are going to die? I'm thinking the doctor or Hershel alluded to the facts (maybe I'm remembering my own past reading), but a virulent and deadly flu like this one would decimate the group. Because it would take those with the healthiest immune systems (it is not the flu that is deadly but the body's over reaction to it) you'd lose the healthiest members. So who is going to take care of the kids and the elderly? Who the hell will be left to fight the walkers??!! Carol may have become hardened over time, but she is at least prudent and willing to act. I don't approve of what she did, but of everyone in the group she appears to be the only one really understands what it takes to survive.
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#155
DominusPisces

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RIck more than thought about it; was more than tempted. He approached those most likely to support him, and then went to Merle to "carry out his garbage". Michonne had it right. At that point his concern was for himself. He didn't have the balls to take Michonne to the Gov. himself. He manipulated someone else into doing it. Does that absolve him of guilt? And yes, he had a last minute bout of conscience, but the ball was already rolling by that point and the outcome could have gone very differently.




As to Karen and David, yes they were innocent---and so was Patrick. And yes, they submitted to quarantine. How big a joke was that? Tyrese walked right through it. (So much for members of the group protecting others.) Look at the infected. How many do you think are going to die? I'm thinking the doctor or Hershel alluded to the facts (maybe I'm remembering my own past reading), but a virulent and deadly flu like this one would decimate the group. Because it would take those with the healthiest immune systems (it is not the flu that is deadly but the body's over reaction to it) you'd lose the healthiest members. So who is going to take care of the kids and the elderly? Who the hell will be left to fight the walkers??!! Carol may have become hardened over time, but she is at least prudent and willing to act. I don't approve of what she did, but of everyone in the group she appears to be the only one really understands what it takes to survive.


Yes.. it's a good thing that Carol's advanced medical knowledge and quick thinking and action prevented the illness from spreading. Morally Wrong, Logically Wrong, and Pragmatically Wrong. The only way in this case to protect yourself and others would be to keep EVERYONE as isolated from each other as possible and trace back people's interactions to try and find out who may or may not be sick BEFORE they start coughing. That's kinda hard to do in this case. The only other option? LEAVE. That's the only way to ensure you are not exposed any longer.

Yes the Quarantine wasn't handled properly with K and D... but then, they might not have expected anyone to break it with the threat of death within 24 hours. Hard to really blame the two people who did the responsible thing AND abided by it. I still ask... Who were they gonna get sick in A block? the only 2 people would have been Carol herself or Tyreese as they were the only 2 we know of that went down there aside from maybe Hershel or the Doc.

The only reason killing K or D would have been okay would be if they refused to Isolate themselves and kept mingling with everyone. Did they? No.

Carol may have had the strength to act, but the action was wrong on every possible level, and her callousness and righteousness so bloated, that she can't be trusted to live there any longer.
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Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray thee Lord these bites aren't deep.
Should I die before I wake, I pray thee Lord, my skull they break.






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