Why Can’T The Governor Let Both Camps Exist?

Woodbury prison Guv

#1
Sweetsister

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The guv told Rick he just wants Michonne which is bull, Rick knows the guv wants to kill all the folks at the prison. My question is why. Maybe I missed it but why cant the governor let the folks at the prison exist? He has all the people of Woodbury under his spell, I’m sure if he told them the prison was no longer a threat they would buy it, after all they are not allowed out of the towns walls. Apart from Michonne and Merle I don’t see what the Guv. has against other survivors existing at the prison. He and Rick could have decided on boundaries and since the prison seems to be in the “red zone” I doubt anyone will be going over. I must have missed something having to do with the Guv. wanting to clean out the prison.
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#2
JMK1975

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Competition for resources. Revenge for the lose of his eye and destruction of the town. Men don't like competition. Also all story needs conflict. Understand that then you understand that any story can't be a ' let's just get along' kind of thing.

But mostly his meglomanical ego.
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#3
Sweetsister

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Competition for resources. Revenge for the lose of his eye and destruction of the town. Men don't like competition. Also all story needs conflict. Understand that then you understand that any story can't be a ' let's just get along' kind of thing.


That's true but until the guv knew they were at the prison there wasn't a problem. I can understand the guv wants vengeance for what happened and I would think that's enough to cause conflict. The Guv gets his supplies by shooting up a army convoy, has power generators, wind turbines and probably grows some fruits and veg, They even showed a dog in one scene @ Wood bury, if they got their hands on some cows they'd be doing pretty well. By comparison Rick gets his supplies by scavaging and they had the idea to plant crops. Apart from the personal "injuries" inflicted on one another, why cant 2 groups exist?
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#4
Kyle

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The Guv is obviously using Michonne as a good excuse to go to war. The bottom line is, the Apocalypse gives the Guv a chance to be on the power trip that he always wanted. His title alone tells you he wants to be a leader and in control of everything. He has a god complex and I don't think he killed the National Guard due to just supplies. He killed them because they could challenge his leadership and if need be had the training to take over Woodbury.
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#5
I R Biter

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I was going to respond, but Kyle said pretty much was I going to say.
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#6
RickGrimeyGrimes

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Well that would just make for boring TV wouldn't it ?
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#7
SteadyEddie

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Well that would just make for boring TV wouldn't it ?


I think 70 percent of the questions posed on these forums can be answered this way.
Honestly. Like "Why didn't Rick shoot the guv'nor?"
DUH. Because there's three episodes left!!!
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#8
Blasko_Z

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I think 70 percent of the questions posed on these forums can be answered this way.
Honestly. Like "Why didn't Rick shoot the guv'nor?"
DUH. Because there's three episodes left!!!


Well, some of us here like to give the writers a bit more credit than that.
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#9
That Guy

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Well, some of us here like to give the writers a bit more credit than that.


I prefer to have a valid in-universe explanation as well, rather than 'it would be boring TV otherwise'.
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#10
RickGrimeyGrimes

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I think 70 percent of the questions posed on these forums can be answered this way.
Honestly. Like "Why didn't Rick shoot the guv'nor?"
DUH. Because there's three episodes left!!!


I know. It annoys me, seems people don't like suspense being built. If you kill off the antagonist for the story arc with three episodes left then we've got what we want too early. They are making us want to come back and watch the show every week.
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#11
backwoodsroamer

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The answers you've been given are all good Sweetsister. There are a few other things to think of. What TG has going on is what is called a personality cult in the world of dictators. Some dictators rule by fear alone. Think of Stalin in the Soviet Union with his secret police taking dissenters away in the middle of the night never to be seen again.

Others rule by convincing their people they are the great and benevolent leader who is the source all the public needs. Think the three Jongs in North Korea, Ceausescu in Romania before he got the boot, and maybe Castro in Cuba.

How that works is by convincing the people you are a great leader, have saved them from harm, provided for them, made their lives better, and so on. Basically the dictator is saying "I'm so great you folks will never make it without me." That only works so long as the people are relatively content and isolated from outside influences.

In the Woodbury situation TG is in a precarious situation now. He's carved out a relatively safe area from the walkers, the people are content with his rule, and he's got no opposition. As long as he can keep this up, his position is assured.

Unfortunately for him Rick and company showed up. Not only showed up, but launched a successful attack in the middle of Woodbury. That means TG isn't holding up his end of the bargain. He's not keeping the people safe. He can't just tell every one in Woodbury it was just a misunderstanding and let bygones be bygones. That means a hostile group has been left to go about it's merry way in Woodbury's area. TG looks weak. The people start to doubt his leadership.

There is also always the possibility of communication between the two groups. Look how Tyreese and company showed up in Woodbury after visiting the prison. Sure Tyreese said Rick was crazy and hostile, but TG knows that isn't really true. What if the next group to pass through gives a different story? He always has to be worried that something will give away the fact that everything he's told his people is a lie.

TG doesn't have enough flunkies to force the people of Woodbury to do as he wants, so it comes down to him maintaining a lie to stay in power. The lie that he is the great, all knowing, all powerful, all providing, protector of the people. Rick and company have to go because every day they continue to exist TG's hold on his people is at risk.
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#12
CreepMeOut

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Just like Hershel said last episode that TG is a very sick man. That pretty much sums it up for me.
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#13
RickGrimeyGrimes

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I prefer to have a valid in-universe explanation as well, rather than 'it would be boring TV otherwise'.


Well it would be. It'd be a pointless way to kill him off and a bad move from the writers.
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#14
BigEd

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Two groups unwillingly engaged in animosity and paranoia will not have reciprocity until the truth comes out about both sides actions.

Hopefully there will be a WTF!? moment and everyone figures out the bullshit.
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#15
DeadZedHead

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Because this is HIS playground!!
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#16
AlleghenyILS

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Competition for resources. Revenge for the lose of his eye and destruction of the town. Men don't like competition. Also all story needs conflict. Understand that then you understand that any story can't be a ' let's just get along' kind of thing.

But mostly his meglomanical ego.

This is theoretical I recently just thought of FWIW. Wouldn't happen but say Rick's group are all killed, all that remains is a majority of WB (for the sake of discussion 80%). If resources became so scarce, I believe TG would keep the bare necessities in terms of personnel (killing citizens of WB). Maybe keeping his key fighters, Milton, etc. Maybe Andrea? Who knows, that is the true beauty I think of the remainder of the season - a lot of possibilities. Anyways, point is is that Gov seems like a guy who would kill nearly everybody that relied upon him for protection and sustenance just for his own survival without hesitation.
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#17
SteadyEddie

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Well it would be. It'd be a pointless way to kill him off and a bad move from the writers.


Sometimes the obvious is too obvious?
I mean, why?
Why ask why?
You can't have a hero without a villain, can you?
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#18
AlleghenyILS

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Sometimes the obvious is too obvious?
I mean, why?
Why ask why?
You can't have a hero without a villain, can you?

Some things are better off not asked, or answered, Hahaha
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#19
StrollingDead

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I think it's called human history. You don't let another group move into your territory, make a claim on your resources, and settle down as an independent actor that can turn on you at any instant. If you do allow them in, it's under conditions that put your foot on their neck, and that's only if they have something to offer as tribute.

In this case, not having seen any signs that Woodbury is working to self-sufficiency, we can assume that both groups are living by scavenging the leftovers of civilisation, a necessarily limited resource.

Plus, as the Governor said, he can't tell the people of Woodbury that those vicious raiders who launched an unprovoked attack on them to murder them in their sleep and steal their vital supplies are going to be allowed to move in next door with out any resistance.
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#20
mr teaspoon

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The guv told Rick he just wants Michonne which is bull, Rick knows the guv wants to kill all the folks at the prison. My question is why. Maybe I missed it but why cant the governor let the folks at the prison exist?


For a bunch of reasons that were never once shown on-screen.
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#21
kombat

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The guv told Rick he just wants Michonne which is bull, Rick knows the guv wants to kill all the folks at the prison. My question is why. Maybe I missed it but why cant the governor let the folks at the prison exist? He has all the people of Woodbury under his spell, I’m sure if he told them the prison was no longer a threat they would buy it, after all they are not allowed out of the towns walls. Apart from Michonne and Merle I don’t see what the Guv. has against other survivors existing at the prison. He and Rick could have decided on boundaries and since the prison seems to be in the “red zone” I doubt anyone will be going over. I must have missed something having to do with the Guv. wanting to clean out the prison.


It doesn't make sense because you're thinking it through like a normal, rational, logical person. Phillip Blake is none of those things anymore.

At least in the comic it made some sense
Spoiler
In the tv show it's just about some vendetta over events THAT HE STARTED AND WAS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR!!! But he's too insane and egotistical to admit or see that.
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#22
kombat

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Two groups unwillingly engaged in animosity and paranoia will not have reciprocity until the truth comes out about both sides actions.

Hopefully there will be a WTF!? moment and everyone figures out the bullshit.


Are you implying Rick's group did something wrong? If they did I don't know what it was. Were they just supposed to let Glenn and Maggie be executed?
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#23
AlleghenyILS

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I think it's called human history. You don't let another group move into your territory, make a claim on your resources, and settle down as an independent actor that can turn on you at any instant. If you do allow them in, it's under conditions that put your foot on their neck, and that's only if they have something to offer as tribute.

In this case, not having seen any signs that Woodbury is working to self-sufficiency, we can assume that both groups are living by scavenging the leftovers of civilisation, a necessarily limited resource.

Plus, as the Governor said, he can't tell the people of Woodbury that those vicious raiders who launched an unprovoked attack on them to murder them in their sleep and steal their vital supplies are going to be allowed to move in next door with out any resistance.

Any human being that wouldn't take a prime chance to expand his/her territory and get rid of an occupying force when they had superior numbers would be one of the first.
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#24
Dr Cank

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The answers you've been given are all good Sweetsister. There are a few other things to think of. What TG has going on is what is called a personality cult in the world of dictators. Some dictators rule by fear alone. Think of Stalin in the Soviet Union with his secret police taking dissenters away in the middle of the night never to be seen again.

Others rule by convincing their people they are the great and benevolent leader who is the source all the public needs. Think the three Jongs in North Korea, Ceausescu in Romania before he got the boot, and maybe Castro in Cuba.

How that works is by convincing the people you are a great leader, have saved them from harm, provided for them, made their lives better, and so on. Basically the dictator is saying "I'm so great you folks will never make it without me." That only works so long as the people are relatively content and isolated from outside influences.

In the Woodbury situation TG is in a precarious situation now. He's carved out a relatively safe area from the walkers, the people are content with his rule, and he's got no opposition. As long as he can keep this up, his position is assured.

Unfortunately for him Rick and company showed up. Not only showed up, but launched a successful attack in the middle of Woodbury. That means TG isn't holding up his end of the bargain. He's not keeping the people safe. He can't just tell every one in Woodbury it was just a misunderstanding and let bygones be bygones. That means a hostile group has been left to go about it's merry way in Woodbury's area. TG looks weak. The people start to doubt his leadership.

There is also always the possibility of communication between the two groups. Look how Tyreese and company showed up in Woodbury after visiting the prison. Sure Tyreese said Rick was crazy and hostile, but TG knows that isn't really true. What if the next group to pass through gives a different story? He always has to be worried that something will give away the fact that everything he's told his people is a lie.

TG doesn't have enough flunkies to force the people of Woodbury to do as he wants, so it comes down to him maintaining a lie to stay in power. The lie that he is the great, all knowing, all powerful, all providing, protector of the people. Rick and company have to go because every day they continue to exist TG's hold on his people is at risk.


Great post.

But I will pose a question. "The lie that he is the great, all knowing, all powerful, all providing, protector of the people" If we take out some of the bravata of your eloquent post, is it a lie? I will grant that he forced his citizens to stay under threat of death (though that was his lowest point), an act that is unexcusable. But isn't he the great provider and the great protector, to a group that doesn't seem fit for this new world.

His resources and protection are so strong that Andrea was willing to forego most of his inadaquacies for a chance to share in what he has to offer.

And though I did say it was unexcusable any good dictator and capitalist alike know nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd, and numbers are strength in any world. (wait why are we the only nation to ever successfully combat a two front war?)



Oh but apart from what BWR said. The Guv is a lion (be it mental and/or geopoltical). If any threat/competition enters into his territory he must elliminated immediately. you are either in his pride or off his territory.
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#25
BigEd

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Are you implying Rick's group did something wrong? If they did I don't know what it was. Were they just supposed to let Glenn and Maggie be executed?


No, not at all.

The BS started when Merle was sent to kill Michonne by the Governor.
Merle instead takes Glenn and Maggie prisoner and brings them back to prison.
Michonne informs Rick about what is going on, and they had to rescue them.

Imagine the storyline if Merle had simply agreed to meet Daryl where he met Glenn & Maggie. In reality that would work out great.

But for a tv show there needs to be more to the story.
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