Episode 5: No Going Back Review ( And Season 2 Review Thread)

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#26
JesusMonroe

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Given that there were 5 endings, I wish Telltale wrote an extra one where you can leave with Mike and Bonnie. That would've been an interesting one

 

Also, I'm really disappointed in Mike and Bonnie (I shouted for help). Never before have characters dropped from favorites to hated so quickly. What they did was unforgivable

 

Want to leave the group? That's your right. Want to take our prisoner? Eh, we don't really need him. Plus, Kenny is abusing him. Go ahead. Want to steal our truck? What the fuck do you think you're doing? We need it. We'll die without it. Want to take some food? You're both assholes but you can take some with you to sustain yourself a little, I guess. Want to take all of our food? Fuck, no

 

My opinion of these two would be a lot different if they left on foot in the middle of the night with one bag of food or none. They left Clementine and a baby to starve to death in the cold. That's fucked up on a lot of levels. When Clem gets shot, they leave her to die. Actually, if you shoot walkers instead of helping Luke, Bonnie coaxes Mike to leave you behind. Also, Luke could've gotten himself out, Bonnie. The most you can do to help is throw him something to latch onto and NOT STAND ON THE THIN ICE

 

I liked them before but I don't think what they did can be defended. They were planning on leaving Clementine and AJ to starve/freeze and then left Clementine to die when she was shot. At least Vernon only stole the boat...

 

 

Also, I posted this in the music thread, but how tense was the fight with this playing?


  • 4

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#27
The zombie Flanders

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thought they did a nice job with this finale...   haven't had time to do multiple play-throughs to see all the ending options (though I've read the spoilers now on those, so I know what's coming). In my primary save, I was on the support Kenny all the way with my choices, so not shooting him at the end was the obvious choice. 

 

and since he goes so far as to sacrifice everything to ensure Clem and AJ have a safe place to be, it seemed to be the right choice. I sat and stared at the final options for awhile and just let Kenny talk until he stopped...  finally decided to do as he asked, and stayed at Wellington (with that small hope that someday, he would be back....)

 

 

have to say, as I was playing through the episode, I almost felt like I was watching some of my own writing. About a week after episode 4 came out, I started writing my own version of what happens after. Since we didn't know the outcome of the shootout, I just kept everyone in our group alive and went from there (left out Arvo and his group)...    had some similar scenes/dialogue (Kenny/Clem apologizing for things they've said....   Lee appearing to Clem....   someone falling through ice....)  so it was kinda cool to see what I came up with wasn't so far off. 


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#28
slimymeteor

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I wonder if the Jane/Kenny choice was originally supposed to be Luke/Kenny?  It seemed like they were building up to that the whole season.  It makes me wonder if Telltale changed it because so many people were predicting it.  Or, maybe they changed it because a lot of players were turning against Luke and a lot of people were really liking Jane.  It was still a difficult choice, being Jane, but it still makes me think about how it'd be if it were Luke and Kenny in that final encounter instead.

 

I chose to run up to Luke to try and help him from falling in the water.  It was a hard choice that I made at the last nanosecond, and the deciding factor was something Clementine said the night before at the campfire.  I had Clem tell Luke, "I'd come back for you."  I felt like that was a promise, so, I went back for him.  It was so, so sad seeing him being pulled down into the murky waters, reaching up for me, absolutely terrified.  I've been so wrapped up over Kenny's death at the end that I forgot how terrible Luke's death was too :(


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#29
Deadpelican

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 They were planning on leaving Clementine and AJ to starve/freeze and then left Clementine to die when she was shot. At least Vernon only stole the boat...

 

 

 

These group members abandon those group members by stealing (or trying to steal) the precious vehicle they need to take them to safety. 

 

 

Just one  example of something that's been repeated several times so far in the series.  

 

I understand that the series is about difficult choices- but how many difficult choices can you make and how many betrayals must you endure before they all start to feel the same? 

 

It's kinda getting that way for me. 

 

 

While it was a great episode in its own right, I don't feel compelled to re-play it this time as I have in the past. 


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Shield yourself from those not bound to you by steel, for they are the blind. Aid them when you can, but lose not sight of yourself. 


#30
BeauL83

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Stuck with Kenny until Wellington, I shall keep AJ safe #ForKenny!
That finale wrecked me like season 1. Damn telltale still got it!
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I Believe In Rick Grimes

#31
jacob

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Don't get me wrong Telltale really know how to create an in depth, character driven game, the connections/relationships within the game are spot on, they really know how to make you love and hate someone in an hour of gameplay...however am I the only one who feels a little let down by this season? It feels so disjointed, there isn't a specfic plot or aim throughout the whole game. Season 1 was to find Clems family and attempt to find a safe haven, teach clementine hoe to survive, and all the locations seemed to flow. This just didn't flow for me, everything seemed to drag, characters weren't as good, plot was minimal. Find a new group, they've escaped a psychopath,escape him...then the aim was what....go to north to Wellington? But before they met Kenny this wasn't an option. I just felt that it all lacked in plot and in the end, nothing really served a purpose, everything felt irrelevant. It was like everything built up for that final choice..I've had to rant, so apologies. It's just my opinion haha
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#32
RickGrimeyGrimes

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I Let Kenny kill Jane and entered Wellington, I just felt it was right and Kenny sold me on it too, it's what he wanted all season, for everyone to be safe and AJ has the best chance of Survival there. It felt like the "right" ending to me as well. I knew when Jane turned up she was up to something, I never really trusted her and when she said "just wait you'll see what he really is" that she was allowing us to think that AJ had been killed. She deserved to meet her end and I'm glad I stuck by it. Bonnie and Clyde(Mike I Know) should have died too.

 

Personally, I am hugely surprised that only 21% of people ended the game with AJ in Wellington.


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#33
Deadpelican

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Don't get me wrong Telltale really know how to create an in depth, character driven game, the connections/relationships within the game are spot on, they really know how to make you love and hate someone in an hour of gameplay...however am I the only one who feels a little let down by this season? It feels so disjointed, there isn't a specfic plot or aim throughout the whole game. Season 1 was to find Clems family and attempt to find a safe haven, teach clementine hoe to survive, and all the locations seemed to flow. This just didn't flow for me, everything seemed to drag, characters weren't as good, plot was minimal. Find a new group, they've escaped a psychopath,escape him...then the aim was what....go to north to Wellington? But before they met Kenny this wasn't an option. I just felt that it all lacked in plot and in the end, nothing really served a purpose, everything felt irrelevant. It was like everything built up for that final choice..I've had to rant, so apologies. It's just my opinion haha

 

 

You're not the only one I felt pretty much the same way. 

 

I liked it. But it didn't leave me anxiously awaiting season three. 

 

I dunno but the finale left me feeling like I was finished, not just with Clem's story but the game as a whole. I liked it, but at the same time don't feel the need to ever play another Walking Dead game ever.

 

Not saying that I never will, but the level of enthusiasm for the next title is not there  for me personally. 

 

The ending of season one left me wondering, "What's next for Clementine? Who are those figures walking in the distance?" 

 

The end of season two left me thinking "Well, I guess that's a wrap. Nice job." 


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Shield yourself from those not bound to you by steel, for they are the blind. Aid them when you can, but lose not sight of yourself. 


#34
StarkExpanse

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Glad to hear that the Season wrapped up well. I've been waiting since Episode 2 for the Season to complete itself, so I can marathon the rest.


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#35
JesusMonroe

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Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

 

Also (spoilers): http://www.reddit.com/r/FuckArvo


  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#36
Deadpelican

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Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

 

Also (spoilers): http://www.reddit.com/r/FuckArvo

 

Well I personally hated Arvo. 

I'm one of the people that let him walk away with the medical supplies. So when he showed up with armed thugs and threatened my group, I had no real use for him and was ready to kill him without a second thought. 


  • 3

Shield yourself from those not bound to you by steel, for they are the blind. Aid them when you can, but lose not sight of yourself. 


#37
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I never really felt one way or another about Arvo (I ended up robbing him in the heat of the moment). While I didn't trust him I didn't think that Kenny should have been beating him up like he was.

 

Also after his sister died and he shot Clem that look, I knew he was waiting to kill her.

 

I hate Bonnie and Mike now, and if I ever see either of them again I won't hesitate to pull the trigger. Leaving a little girl and baby for dead because they don't like Kenny? Bullshit.  I was hoping TellTale would give you the option to shoot Mike as he approached you for the gun.

 

Also Bonnie got Luke killed in my playthrough. Lukes plan to have us kill the zombies and bide some time was the best option. We could have gotten him a rope or something after taking care of the zombies. Then she has to go run over there and "help".  I tried to break the ice and save him, which just resulted in me falling in and seeing him dead.

 

Then later on in the game she has the audacity to blame a little girl for not pulling a grown man out of a frozen lake when the ice around him was cracking and breaking under his own weight alone? Dumb.


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Bit > Lurker > Roamer > Put down by Scott Gimple. Goodbye R&L


#38
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This just might be my favorite episode of the whole series


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#39
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I wish I could have bitched Bonnie out. In my eyes she got Luke killed. he told us to stay back because the ice was too then, but there she fucking goes, screwing everything up.

Then she has the gall to blame ME? Bitch! 

 

As for when Arvo, Bonnie and Mike tried sneaking off. ughhhhh. That was Arvo's last straw for me. I was kinda on his side up until then, but that? Naw. I was already sick of Bonnie's shit by then too, so if given the opportunity, I woulda shot em both. But of course Mike had to be there and screw everything up. Dammit Mike, you were actually kinda cool


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#40
JesusMonroe

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Here's an unknown fact: Bonnie dies if you don't break a hole in the ice for her


  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#41
SuperNeos2

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The funny thing about Bonnie is that she's got real fucking balls to gall at you for Luke.

If that bitch didn't lead Carver to the Ski Lodge, then everyone would still be fine and alive. Nick, Alvin, Walter, Carlos, Sarah, and maybe Rebecca would still be alive. And Luke would've gotten out on his own if Bonnie didn't go to him when he said NOT TO.

Hypocrite at its finest.
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#42
JesusMonroe

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Seriously. I tried to help Luke so Bonnie was cool to me but she was so unreasonable this episode. Same with Kenny. Their asshole/bitch statuses raised to 11

 

Now that I know Bonnie is determinant, though, I can safely say she won't be back


  • 0

Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#43
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I understand Kenny can be an asshole, but he's still my boy! I couldn't kill him since I wanted Jane dead too for 'killing' AJ and knew keeping Kenny alive was the right choice when it was revealed that AJ was fine and she set this up. I also stayed with him instead of Wellington because I didn't want to be separated from him again after just getting him back.

And Kenny is really only vicious to people who kinda deserve it. Jane, Ben, Carver, and Arvo all did things that make hating them rational. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that was unrational for Kenny is the Larry situation.

And let's all be honest... we were all cheering for Kenny to keep beating Arvo. We all wanted him dead, well at least I did.
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#44
Pickles312

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No way i could shoot Kenny. he was going crazy, but Jane was constantly antagonizing him. i think he was right about her.

 

As far as staying or leaving with him, that was tough. But there is no way  could leave Kenny. no way. We've been bros since the beginning.


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#45
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Pretty underwhelming IMO but still good.

 

Holy crap I hate Jane. I knew what she was doing with AJ so yeah, ended up with Kenny, but looking at all the options... Jesus, I think I would have been pretty fucking depressed had I (intentionally or not) gone with her.

 

Looking at several walkthrough's have not been good for me. There's an equal amount of endings for Kenny/Jane, correct? Initially thought there were more for Jane... Made this whole thing even more depressing.


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#46
Dead Gov Walking

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Also, I posted this in the music thread, but how tense was the fight with this playing?

The music for this episode did seem to be some of the best in the series


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#47
Kursk

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Wow, what an episode. The emotional impact, the writing, its such a legitimate artform this game and the story is as good as the Comics and better than the TV imho.

 

It really did an incredible job of immersing me in feeling like I'm really there with them in the cold, punishing apocalypse. I found myself talking to the screen how I would've said some of the ingame lines. And the tension with all that Kenny rage and counter-rage, jesus. This ep had so much conflict and tension. And yet like an amazing story though, it only makes the payoff so much greater and the relief feeling so much more intense. For example the fire and toast, with all the intimacy and safety of the moment. But the moment couldn't last, nor should it have.

 

I was sympathetic to Arvo and wanted Kenny to stop abusing him. Very surprised by the Bonnie/Mike backstab. Its one thing if their gtfo plan included AJ, but it didn't. Fuck them.

 

I was terrified by some of the Kenny rage too. It occurred to me I might really have to put him down. His grief is still so raw. I was thinking about if or when I'd have to kill him during the truck conversation at night. Then I found myself being persuaded by his plan and how decent and loving he really is and can be when it's 1 to 1 like that. I loved the Lee dream interlude, some of that dialogue foreshadowed the possible Kenny confrontation pretty heavily. Often times those kind of scenes feel cheap and jammed in, I thought it was perfect on so many levels.

 

I chose to let Kenny stab Jane. To me, by the time that decision was finally presented, this was obvious. At worst, you think she killed the AJ by some inaction or failure. From Kenny's perspective, his escalation was super justified and Jane needed to be murdered. At best, and she implies to Clem during that AJ may be alive - but that little bit of hope has to be overwhelmed by the grief and rage of the moment (if you think of it from an organic character perspective, instead of "oh we don't see the body yet and he's a BABY, he must be alive because this is a fictional medium" perspective). There's also the fact that its Kenny and Clem/player's relationship with him is much longer.

 

I read about 2/3s of the page 1 in comments. I plan to read all of them and will find more things to add surely. That's how far I made it and then I had to start typing out my piece.

 

The ending was really superb. Kenny's heroism and selfless courage, totally validating nearly all his crazier shit on the way to that point, the goodbye, the realistic hope for a bright Clem+AJ future, I loved this episode and felt that the writers nailed it 100%.


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#48
Kursk

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Agree fully on the shock of Luke's death. He was the last of the cabin, yea I knew it was on the table that Luke could and probably would die eventually, maybe not until the next season. The timing and the mechanism of his death is what got me. Luke banging on the ice. I took the plunge and then I saw him like that. Made me feel like I was looking at a close friend frozen and drowned to death, gave me chills (pun unintended).

 

I didn't say it directly but Jane manipulated that showdown and it was unnecessary. Ironically I found myself hating Kenny often throughout this ep. By the end I was back firmly in that place of love. The character-centric writing is great like that.

 

Meteor I think you're onto something. Kinda feels like it should've been Kenny and Luke fighting it out. I do think it works better this way. Luke had enough development. Looking back, when he made the toast and references heaven, yea his character arc felt complete right then. They developed the Clem/Jane relationship sufficiently enough that it worked.

 

I wonder if Telltale knew they wanted to use that exact scene for a later dream sequence and visit from Ghost Lee. To me it seems so many of the lines gain this eery double meaning when we see it again during the Clem-passed-out dream.

 

Only 21% I hear you Grimey, I'm very surprised more people didn't arrive there with us.


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#49
Lee.hag

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I screwed up i ended up alone with baby, having let kenny kill jane and then putting a bullet in kenny, in hindsight i would have gone with Kenny, Jane was screwed mentally Kenny was just trying to do his best. Manipulating a sitaution like that to start a deadly show down with Kenny was ex girlfriend levels of crazy.

 

Overall i grew more and more dis interested as the series grew on little bits pulled me back in, but it just felt samey and needs some overhauling for the new series.


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#50
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Here's an unknown fact: Bonnie dies if you don't break a hole in the ice for her


I got another one: you can kill Mike when he tries to escape with Arvo.
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