Is Bringing The Show Closer To The Comics Too Little Too Late?

- - - - - comics Gimple Mazzara sucks TV show comics vs the show

#51
I_Follow_You_Axel

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The only thing I've heard with regards to that is episode 9 being almost 100% translated from an issue


I've heard the same thing about S4E08, which was totally true. That doesn't mean that moving forward, the show will match the comic.
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#52
JesusMonroe

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I've heard the same thing about S4E08, which was totally true. That doesn't mean that moving forward, the show will match the comic.

Don't get me wrong. I agree. I'm just trying to input what I know about the topic
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#53
Sgthewolverine

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The only thing I've heard with regards to that is episode 9 being almost 100% translated from an issue

would make sense, even if their going down another path I think the issue in question is the best possible Segway. I'm so stoked to see Abe it's not even funny! Just watched band of brothers again, and I think he may be the best casting in a long time!
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#54
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I have no hope for tv Abe

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#55
I_Follow_You_Axel

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Don't get me wrong. I agree. I'm just trying to input what I know about the topic


No worries. I'm just wondering if That_Guy_From_NY knows something we all don't.

It's agreed that S4E8 and S4E9 follow closely to the comic, but that doesn't mean that's the precedent moving forward. Could these two episodes, which are represent some of the most emotional portions of the comic, be following them closely to appease the hordes of angry comic fans, thereby saving the show? Or is Scott Gimple simply pulling directly from the comics to pay homage to them? I agree with the former. I feel that Gimple has found a happy medium in doing right by the source material, while deviating from it to fit the direction of the show. The first eight episodes of season 4 are miles ahead of the entirety of Season 3, and I feel it's only going to get better know that they're out of the Prison.

If you feel that it's "too little, too late" for the show, that's just your opinion. Though should you quit on the show now, I feel that you'll end up missing out on some of the best episodes of the entire series.
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#56
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I have no hope for tv Abe

my feeling on negan. I have faith in Michael cudlitz...now what they do with him is another story
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#57
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Both Abe and Negan (should he appear) will be watered down. I believe AMC literally has zero fucks to give them.
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#58
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#59
BeardedOne

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Meh...

I think the show has attracted and maintained an audience that is simply looking for a zombie story they can watch on a regular basis. Falling back on the source as material won't matter much at all to those viewers.

Disappointed comic fans probably won't care much either as the show pretty much destroyed the main characters we've come to appreciate from the comic. After season 3, I had absolutely no desire to watch the show ruin any other characters they may introduce, and there's nothing they can do to fix that issue...except kill Rick and start over with somebody new.
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#60
That_Guy_From_NY

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No worries. I'm just wondering if That_Guy_From_NY knows something we all don't.

It's agreed that S4E8 and S4E9 follow closely to the comic, but that doesn't mean that's the precedent moving forward. Could these two episodes, which are represent some of the most emotional portions of the comic, be following them closely to appease the hordes of angry comic fans, thereby saving the show? Or is Scott Gimple simply pulling directly from the comics to pay homage to them? I agree with the former. I feel that Gimple has found a happy medium in doing right by the source material, while deviating from it to fit the direction of the show. The first eight episodes of season 4 are miles ahead of the entirety of Season 3, and I feel it's only going to get better know that they're out of the Prison.

If you feel that it's "too little, too late" for the show, that's just your opinion. Though should you quit on the show now, I feel that you'll end up missing out on some of the best episodes of the entire series.


Well there are a few interviews of Kirkman saying (and even Gimple himself) saying they season 4 sticks closer to the comics and has the most scenes adapted directly from the comics. In 1 interview Gimple says he basically wanted to stick to the comic exactly but it was Kirkman himself who talked him out of it.
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#61
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Well there are a few interviews of Kirkman saying (and even Gimple himself) saying they season 4 sticks closer to the comics and has the most scenes adapted directly from the comics. In 1 interview Gimple says he basically wanted to stick to the comic exactly but it was Kirkman himself who talked him out of it.


The takeaway from that is we won't be seeing a direct retelling of the comic storyline. I feel we'll get an abridged version of what goes on in the comic, only really pulling iconic scenes from the book, but overall, like you've said, Kirkman wants the show and the comic to be separate. In issue 118's Letter Hacks, someone asked him if he lets the show dictate how the comic is written (i.e., writing the comic knowing that it will be developed fro TV later), to which he replied "no." I think it's a safe bet that the inverse is true.

Throughout the course of this show, they've been hitting all the key points of the source material, while keeping the show separate from the comic. We've followed the same progression (Atlanta camp > Farm > Prison > Open Road) as the comic, while hitting some major, and in some cases, rehashed scenes from the book. I don't think the show execs paused, thought about it, and then made a decision to follow the comics more closely from here on out. The remarkable success of the show, changes in the budgeting, changes in the showrunner, and a variety of other factors have made it seem like they're not following the comics, but I feel that the intent to follow them was always there. They're not deviating from the comics just to piss in the comic purists' cornflakes.

I know Mazarra ruined a big portion of the comic. For some, that stain may never wash away. Season 3 was a disaster and the worst season to date, but I really feel that this thread is spiraling into a rehash of this thread.
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#62
Sgthewolverine

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Both Abe and Negan (should he appear) will be watered down. I believe AMC literally has zero fucks to give them.

i think Abe won't need to much taming...negan on the other hand. It's as if kirkman wanted to make a character that was way too much for TV.
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#63
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Since I've never read the comics I don't know what you're talking about. I really like the Walking Dead.


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#64
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Best formats of the Walking Dead:

1. The Comic
2. Telltale Video Game
3. The Novels
4. TV Show
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#65
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I enjoy the TV show a lot for what it is. From a production / make-up stand point it is really well done. However, I had to teach myself to that the show will never be the comics. I was stressing myself out way too much when trying to compare the two.

Where I think the show improved on the comic:
Shane
Hershel
Maggie
The Dixon Brothers (Like the characters, but disliked their story line)

Where the show fell short:
The Governor
Martinez
Woodbury
Rick's right hand
Beth
Tyreese
The Prisoners
Judith
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#66
Guest_CraigTNelsonMandela_*

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you should add andrea to the where it fell short list

boy did they ever fuck her character up

out of curiosity though, how did the show improve on shane and hershel?

#67
JesusMonroe

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you should add andrea to the where it fell short list

boy did they ever fuck her character up

out of curiosity though, how did the show improve on shane and hershel?

Shane is a very mixed bag for me. On one hand, they did make him more fleshed out and more interesting (him killing Otis). On the other, nothing big came out of that. If Rick killed Shane in episode 6 of Season one, it would've had the same impact as episode 12 of Season 2. I thought developing him was going to lead to an awesome conclusion but it kind of just felt like a waste and the plot line just got annoying and soap opera-ish by the end. Plus, Rick killing Shane had nowhere near the amount of impact as Carl killing Shane. We also never got the scene of Rick killing zombie Shane
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Imagine a group of a hundred motorcycles driving down a freeway. Eventually, they hit a junction. One road goes northwest and the other goes northeast. So one guy, we'll call him S, says, "Let's go northwest!" A mile past the intersection, a semi careens into the group and kills ninety of them. Ten are wounded, but they survive and keep going. Eventually, they hit 10,000 miles. S suddenly has his consciousness thrown into his past body right before the junction. Now, he says, "Let's go northeast!" All 100 bikers survive. Happily ever after, right? But what about the ten, no nine, who went northwest and survived? What happens to the reality they were living? Does it just disappear now that S has changed the past? It's not like only bad things happened on that 10,000 mile journey. Maybe one of them fell in love with a gas station attendant and got her pregnant or maybe one adopted a homeless kid that joined the adventure. That 10,000 mile journey would be full of stories. Romances, farewells, friendships...the loss of those ninety lives is horrible and unfortunate, but what would rewriting their history mean? The nine who survived lived full lives and did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. How could it be right to just erase all that? Isn't that worth something? Is there a point to a world where everything is happy? Are people who struggle for a better life just idiots? Being human is about fighting even when it seems hopeless and finding happiness in a world that hates it. Are you saying that's worthless?


#68
Sgthewolverine

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you should add andrea to the where it fell short list

boy did they ever fuck her character up

out of curiosity though, how did the show improve on shane and hershel?

id agree to Hershel, but really that's just lucky casting and a charecter mash up coming out on top...still sad he won't get to yell "TAINTED MEAT!"
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#69
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thought that was dale's line, although i figured he would've taken dale's place during the hunters arc when they cut off his foot

#70
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Rick killing zombie Shane

One of the comic moments that should have been adapted to tv.
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#71
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you should add andrea to the where it fell short list

boy did they ever fuck her character up

out of curiosity though, how did the show improve on shane and hershel?


Shane was actually a character in the show and Bernthal was great in the role. The writing was hardly ever good for him but he still managed to bring the character to life and make him believable. Him and Lincoln's chemistry are what kept the show alive in season 2.
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#72
SPRATT

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you should add andrea to the where it fell short list

boy did they ever fuck her character up

out of curiosity though, how did the show improve on shane and hershel?

SHIT! How did I even forget that? Yes, Andrea fell way short in the TV show.

I liked how they devoloped Shane on the TV show and ended up thinking Jon Bernthal was a pretty good actor. In the comic we never really got much of Shane and a lot of that had to do with Kirkman not knowing how long The Walking Dead would go on for so he wanted to have the first arc wrapped up incase he never got to continue Walking Dead – or so I've read in interviews. Shane in the TV show was a driving force in a somewhat slow moving season 2.

As far as Hershel goes I never cared about him or any Greenes really in the comics. Hershel was a pretty big prick in the comic. Again I thought Scott Wilson was a cool actor and made me care for Hershel when I didn't care so much about him in the comic. Although the way Hershel / Billy goes out in the comic was pretty epic.
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#73
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The takeaway from that is we won't be seeing a direct retelling of the comic storyline. I feel we'll get an abridged version of what goes on in the comic, only really pulling iconic scenes from the book, but overall, like you've said, Kirkman wants the show and the comic to be separate. In issue 118's Letter Hacks, someone asked him if he lets the show dictate how the comic is written (i.e., writing the comic knowing that it will be developed fro TV later), to which he replied "no." I think it's a safe bet that the inverse is true.

Throughout the course of this show, they've been hitting all the key points of the source material, while keeping the show separate from the comic. We've followed the same progression (Atlanta camp > Farm > Prison > Open Road) as the comic, while hitting some major, and in some cases, rehashed scenes from the book. I don't think the show execs paused, thought about it, and then made a decision to follow the comics more closely from here on out. The remarkable success of the show, changes in the budgeting, changes in the showrunner, and a variety of other factors have made it seem like they're not following the comics, but I feel that the intent to follow them was always there. They're not deviating from the comics just to piss in the comic purists' cornflakes.

I know Mazarra ruined a big portion of the comic. For some, that stain may never wash away. Season 3 was a disaster and the worst season to date, but I really feel that this thread is spiraling into a rehash of this thread.



I'm not sure I can totally agree with you, I mean season 3 was completely different from the comic in almost every with the exception that they found a prison and got into a fight with a dude called the Guv, other than that it was completely different and all the evidence seems to indicate that Mazzara had no intention of sticking close to the comics. Really only season 1 and 4 have felt like that were trying to do a "remixed" version.

I also do feel like Mazzara did want to piss off comic fans... I can't see how his story decisions were grounded in anything other than a distaste for the source material.

But you may be right about this thread digressing, lets try to get it back on track.

I feel like the show might have been too subdued for too long to be taken back to its roots without alienating the large mainstream audience it developed as a soap opera back when it was just dumb mindless entertainment in seasons 2 and 3. People who loved and praised the show seem to have done so because they never expected it to be anything more than a fun/good show because they were unaware of it's potential. And those people are the core fanbase of the show.

However, with the show already in it's fourth season turning it into a more hardcore horror show probably would bring in too many new viewers this late in the game, and the show has already alienated a lot of fans of the source material. So I can't help but wonder if bringing it closer to the comics at this point is even really wise from a showrunner stand point. I've seen people who are losing their shit and stating that they may stop watching if it turns out Judith is dead or that Hershel's death was too graphic and unsettling... that it went to far. But realistically those are the things that would happen in a zombie apocalypse; so it seems to me that a lot of people are just used to the subdued version and don't want to see the gritty version.

I'm thinking that it is in fact way too little, much too late.

That said, I love that Gimple is bringing it back to it's roots anyway.
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#74
ForgottenProphecy

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Not at all. Killing off Andrea is the only major misstep I feel like the show has taken. They should have redeemed her character more. Having Tyrese still alive is very, very interesting. I hope they keep him for a while, he's probably my favorite character in the comic from before Negan. Speaking of which, I hope they bring Negan on the show, and they redo that infamous #100 scene, maybe with a new character. Daryl anybody?
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#75
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Both Abe and Negan (should he appear) will be watered down. I believe AMC literally has zero fucks to give them.


They cant NOT include Negan.

Characters like....The Scavengers or...like....guys like those guys.

Negan is much too big a plot character for them to not include him.

They simply cannot NOT include him. (and wont, since i'm pretty sure Gimple or Kirkman said they will and want to include Negan. They just have to set everything up first. They dont want him to appear too early, so they will let the plot play out to that very moment)

But...yeah, they will water him down. If not his character in a whole, probably his vocabulary


That said, if Merle could say the things he did (who were at times much worse than the word ''fuck'', and they let that pass), i'am still having some hope for his vocabulary.

As for Daryl, it would be so ironic if Dwight (if he is *at all* included similarly to his comic self.) killed him, the way he killed Abe.

The only thing that can defeat a Daryl.....Is a Daryl lookalike with half of his face consisting of raw hamburger.

The prophecy tells it so.


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